Zenya said:Dullahan said:Still think the coolest idea I've seen for a shop was 3d printed character and mob figurines. They could add a button at character select and in your inventory that could save a 3d copy of your character. Also in the beastiary of your journal they could add a similar button next to mobs you discovered. Hit the Order 3d Model button and it loads the web storefront placing the 3d model in your cart.
I kinda like this idea, but I'd prefer this to somehow be connected to one's account and not be directly in the game itself, because immersion.
I'd buy a 3d model of my character in a heartbeat. This would be especially cool if one retires one's high level character.
True. If the web store was connected to your game account, it could probably get a copy of your characters. No need for anything in-game.
Nephretiti said:This debate all leads back to the exact same reasoning. I am disappointed in the community here for the ONLY logic they seem to be able to apply here leads to one conclusion:
You have absolutely no faith in the DevTeam in it's ability to run a company or create a cash shop that will not infringe upon the players themselves. I have absolute faith in them and their decisions. It is, after all their design and their game. Most of these guys have proven time and again that they know what they are doing.
I am done with this debate. I will not be replying here again.
Everything you said was addressed, you just didn't like the answers.
Temmi said:
If the developers at Visionary Realms honestly believe that they need a cash shop and the additional revenue it can create to support the game, then I think there need to be hard limits. NEVER an item with stats. NEVER an item that offers any true advantage. Honestly though, I would rather pay a monthly sub of $20 instead of $15 if it meant no cash shop. I feel as though many people in the target audience feel the same. Perhaps I'm wrong on that, but I honestly do believe it.
+1!
Amsai said: Thanks for that crystal clear response Brad. I'm not in favor of a cash shop but based on older threads I thought it a bit murky. Now we for sure know. This is a bit off topic but if you haven't poured over the FAQ, tenets, and feature pages recently then now might be a good time. I am constantly seeing people at either extreme mandating what will or won't be or should or shouldn't be in Pantheon. Some things are general guide lines but fairly open to interpretation and some arent. Obviously cash shops and instances are very specifically out. Other things like what exactly the death penalty is and how exactly a mentor like system needs to be implemented are fairly open. And I just think people need to remember these things before they state emphatically a thing will be done this one way. And also the devs are looking for feedback and anyone should be able to bring any new idea or suggestion without being told they are ruining the game. Ultimately the devs will decide what goes in and what doesnt. Discussion is good but let's not word bully or act like we are 2 steps from rage quitting a game that isn't even out yet.
I think the FAQ, tenets, etc. could definitely use a refresher -- could you guys help out and maybe start a thread about where you think things could be worded better, or should be re-worded, etc.? Would be a huge help -- thanks in advance.
Aradune said:I think the FAQ, tenets, etc. could definitely use a refresher -- could you guys help out and maybe start a thread about where you think things could be worded better, or should be re-worded, etc.? Would be a huge help -- thanks in advance.y
I'm not sure if a total re-word or rehaul is necessary, but you could just have the tenets remain as they are but be expandable/collapsable bulleted lists that could be clicked to flesh out the meaning in each tenet further.
Aradune said:I think the FAQ, tenets, etc. could definitely use a refresher -- could you guys help out and maybe start a thread about where you think things could be worded better, or should be re-worded, etc.? Would be a huge help -- thanks in advance.y
I'm not sure if a total re-word or rehaul is necessary, but you could just have the tenets remain as they are but be expandable/collapsable bulleted lists that could be clicked to flesh out the meaning in each tenet further.
Well originally I had just mentioned it because I think too many specific views on things that were definitely up for debate were getting a bit out of hand. As well as people that will ask for things or defend things to the death that the devs have clearly stated otherwise. But at this point if there are areas that need to be emphasized for clarity or specificity (NO CASH SHOP, but certain services like server transfers are still being considered). Or maybe some things should be specifically made more vague and emphasized to ensure people dont read it and dont automatically associate it with a game. Or maybe give examples if possibe (Death penalty like EQ, Combo system like LotRO, Trial system like XI, etc). This could go along way towards helping discussions on the forums. So people can flat out know that some things arent really open for debate, while at the same time helping to focus discussion where needed. For instance the Death penalty thread(s). We all know there is going to be one, Brad has specified it to be between EQ and VG, so a lot of the discussion has focussed (mostly) on the specifics of it. They might be able to add stuff to the FAQs that were not there before as well. And while Im sure there is plenty they cant talk specify or even talk about yet, it could still be helpful for the things they can.
I don't even want to see server transfers. If you want to play on a new server, go start a character there. Part of what makes a server community special is that by max level you begin to recognize people and the entire process becomes a shared experience. Buying your way in shouldn't be an option. There should also be no way for a player to hide their identity thru a name change.
Dullahan said:I don't even want to see server transfers. If you want to play on a new server, go start a character there. Part of what makes a server community special is that by max level you begin to recognize people and the entire process becomes a shared experience. Buying your way in shouldn't be an option. There should also be no way for a player to hide their identity thru a name change.
What we did in EQ (I know this was later changed after I left) was allow for naked transfers for a $ amount. I specifically insisted on no items being transfered so that the economy of the shard the person was transfering to wasn't harmed.
Renaming isn't always used for hiding. I had a high level character that I liked but hated the name. It was worth the $ to rename it to something more fitting instead of starting all the way over again just to change the name. Not a big deal if it's not an option though.
Aradune said:Dullahan said:I don't even want to see server transfers. If you want to play on a new server, go start a character there. Part of what makes a server community special is that by max level you begin to recognize people and the entire process becomes a shared experience. Buying your way in shouldn't be an option. There should also be no way for a player to hide their identity thru a name change.
What we did in EQ (I know this was later changed after I left) was allow for naked transfers for a $ amount. I specifically insisted on no items being transfered so that the economy of the shard the person was transfering to wasn't harmed.
And it was a decent $ amount for the times, 50 US dollars if i remember correctly. I have no problem with the server changes as it was in EQ when Aradune was there... naked and no currency taken.
Dullahan said:There should also be no way for a player to hide their identity thru a name change.
There could be an easy option to avoid this. With an option, that displays the last X names of the character together with the server he was on, bad players should be a hard life to hide.
This option could be in game or on the web page.
With this option you could always check (e. g. by a research at the server threads in the forum) if a player had a bad reputation on his old server or with his old name and you could easier decide if you will or won't trust him. And if you see that a player changes servers and names very often, you can at least ask him, if he has a good reason for.
In my opinion this could be a good way to allow server transfers (maybe with limitations regarding the items) and name changes on the one hand and on the other hand make the life for bad guys as hard as possible.
EDIT: An in one way or another visible account ID would of course do the same, to identify the ones you like as well as the ones you don't interact with again.
Aradune said:What we did in EQ (I know this was later changed after I left) was allow for naked transfers for a $ amount. I specifically insisted on no items being transfered so that the economy of the shard the person was transfering to wasn't harmed.
One of the biggest draws for me to EQ was the devs wouldnt compromise, you will not find that an any new MMO, now you get enough "whiners" they always cave. EQ felt like you were on a level playing field every player had to deal with it " You're in our world now" meant something, you created Norrath and said figure it out.
Mercs, group finders, instances, fast travel anywhere etc.... all ruined Norrath. Im really hoping that you stick to your guns and create the world and say deal with it.
"Someone reminded Smedley and group of EQ's "You're in OUR world now." slogan, which seems to mean that the world of Norrath exists with or without your character and your character is just a very small person in a big, adventurous, unforgiving world.
Such makes me recall having my first Fine Steel Greatsword (non-magical) that my lowly Barbarian warrior purchased from a travelling high-level adventurer, and me standing in the snowy windy paths of Everfrost and trying to summon the courage to step out further into the world. (I was afraid of dying somewhere I couldn't get back to and losing my treasured sword). I was in a big harsh, beautiful world and I was not the hero, not the center of the universe, but one of many very mortal adventurers trying to carve an unmapped path to glory.
This was very fun, very immersive, and very memorable."
Dullahan said:I don't even want to see server transfers. If you want to play on a new server, go start a character there. Part of what makes a server community special is that by max level you begin to recognize people and the entire process becomes a shared experience. Buying your way in shouldn't be an option. There should also be no way for a player to hide their identity thru a name change.
Basically what Aradune said. I know some people are against it but if there are measures in place, I dont really think its that big a deal. We could not allow money or items, we could make there be a wating time before you could transfer and one after so you couldnt do it indiscriminately. Have a character tracker that keeps track of who these people were.
All that said, that really wasnt my point at all. That was being used as an example for my whole point of why and how we could revamp the FAQ, tenets, and features pages for clarity (or in some cases making them more clearly vague).
I am a long time gamer, Huge EQ and VG supporter back in the day... So about 19 years of gaming
Personally, I don't want to see any outside influence enter the inside game world. Everything should be obtainable inside the game And if there is an amazing piece someone really wants, they need to start planning how to obtain it.
Cash shops should be service related only or things you can have fun with in real life, again no inside the game influence.
I honestly can't stand shop appearance gear or unrealistic weapon skins all around... It really "devalues" the game to me. The world is that much less interesting because there are constant reminders that there is real life outside influence. I like to get trapped inside the game, knowing once you are in, everything happens in there!
Amsai said:Basically what Aradune said. I know some people are against it but if there are measures in place, I dont really think its that big a deal. We could not allow money or items, we could make there be a wating time before you could transfer and one after so you couldnt do it indiscriminately. Have a character tracker that keeps track of who these people were.
All that said, that really wasnt my point at all. That was being used as an example for my whole point of why and how we could revamp the FAQ, tenets, and features pages for clarity (or in some cases making them more clearly vague).
I realize that but I thought I'd take the opportunity to talk about it since its been mentioned a few times.
Naked characters are better than nothing. My feelings on it is that every server is its own world, and its own community. Everyone has to work in the same environment to progress with the same people and limitations. A transfer is just transplanting someone into a foreign environment.
One more thing I would suggest is that a player can never move to a harder server. If you're on a normal PvE server, you can't more to a PvP server or a hardcore PvE/PvP server. Even a hardcore PvE player (should such a server exist) shouldn't be able to take their progress to a PvP environment where it would have undoubtedly been more challenging to level up.
Dullahan said:Amsai said:Basically what Aradune said. I know some people are against it but if there are measures in place, I dont really think its that big a deal. We could not allow money or items, we could make there be a wating time before you could transfer and one after so you couldnt do it indiscriminately. Have a character tracker that keeps track of who these people were.
All that said, that really wasnt my point at all. That was being used as an example for my whole point of why and how we could revamp the FAQ, tenets, and features pages for clarity (or in some cases making them more clearly vague).
I realize that but I thought I'd take the opportunity to talk about it since its been mentioned a few times.
Naked characters are better than nothing. My feelings on it is that every server is its own world, and its own community. Everyone has to work in the same environment to progress with the same people and limitations. A transfer is just transplanting someone into a foreign environment.
One more thing I would suggest is that a player can never move to a harder server. If you're on a normal PvE server, you can't more to a PvP server or a hardcore PvE/PvP server. Even a hardcore PvE player (should such a server exist) shouldn't be able to take their progress to a PvP environment where it would have undoubtedly been more challenging to level up.
Thats a good point Dullahan. You cant take the easy way, then switch to the hard way because you didnt earn the right to be there. As you know I have a big problem with anything that undermines challenge and difficulty. Of course a lot of this is based off the notion that there would be multiple servers of the same type, which there may not be. We might only have a handful of servers with different rulesets. Though I pray that Pantheon's popularity is rather good even if it is a Niche game, because that will only produce more money so the devs can give us a greater game.
Dullahan said:Still think the coolest idea I've seen for a shop was 3d printed character and mob figurines. They could add a button at character select and in your inventory that could save a 3d copy of your character. Also in the beastiary of your journal they could add a similar button next to mobs you discovered. Hit the Order 3d Model button and it loads the web storefront placing the 3d model in your cart.
I actually think this is a cool idea.
If and when this or ANY other game use a cash shop model, I will be looking for another game to play. Just like I am now.
I would be okay with a cash shop. If I remember right, SWTOR and FFXIV did a good job with theirs and asthetic only items or base items that had different asthetics that could be modded with in-game obtainable items only to earn their stats. I've seen the benefit of that system and as everything evolves over time I have become open to a wider variety of business methods.
The only thing I take issue with is crate gambling, yes it's gambling, yes it's awful. I hope one day it all has to be regulated by state and/or federal gambling commissions.
I do not want to see this, for the reason stated below. It's generally a bad path to start on.
Kelem said:Pandora's box. It leads to other things that lead to other things that soon just get out of hand, next thing you know you have a cash shop. Out of game items as said by Nanoushka sure I would actually like those. Such as the items that some of us are waiting on for supporting the game, maps, lore books, etc..