I think a Cash Shop could be pretty strategic, obviously, for the company. But, I agree with everyone that says you can't sell items that influence general game play. I tend to lump cosmetic type things into the "no go" heap because I personally think gear should tell the story of where your character has been and what he has accomplished. If you do sell these types of things, I hope there is a toggle to turn them off for other players. I only want to see the gear people have earned. I also don't believe people should be able to change their race, their name, or reset their stats. I want consequences. If you're a ninja looter or overall prick, and the server has blacklisted you, you shouldn't be able to just change your name and race and get a pass. Make it matter. If you ruin your rep with a character. Reroll or quit. If you come to hate your race, reroll or quit. If you gimped your stats, reroll or quit. In EQ race mattered. A troll SK early on was rare and elite due to all the penalties they had to endure to get there. It would have been awful to have someone just zoom a human SK through and request a race change at max level. Never do this. Race should matter. And it should be a final decision on creation.
What I do think makes some sense for a cash shop that doesn't impact general game play is increased bank allowance (Not the boxes/bags that crafters would make to fill them), personal housing floor plan variations, Enhanced Guild Hall options, Interior housing items (unless there is a tradeskill specifically centered around this), Cosmetic pets (can be placed in your home or summoned in the world), Mounts (Basically, they can look cooler than basic mounts with the same stats, but not cooler and with sub par stats than rare in game mounts), Additional character slots, Real world swag (T-shirts, cloth maps, etc...). I think most people would pay additional money to expand their bank, buy bigger and unique houses, buy items to decorate the houses with, and purchase unique mounts (especially if they don't raid). Another subset would probably happily pay to collect the pets, all the mounts, and I'm sure more than a few would chip in for real life swag just to show further support.
I think a cash shop is fine if you limit it correctly. But if you mess it up at all, the game gets ruined. I'd personally prefer no cash shop at all, no name changes at all, no race changes at all, no stat resets/respec'ing at all. Ever.
Nephretiti said:Did they actually so NO CASH SHOP EVER - or did they say something along the lines of no cash shop is intended...
I think that quote earlier someone showed was from Brad, but Im not sure he meant it that way. But maybe he did. What I do know is that im positive it has been said in the not too distant past that the idea of a cash shop wasnt completely tossed out and it could potentially be an option. At least thats what I remember. Now of course it was mentioned that it wouldnt be anything P2W. But I believe it was mentioned a few times and probably in threads about payment models. I think they also mentioned things like an increased (more than usual amount) sub, or paying for portions of content in moduals like Turbine does. These were all mentioned at one time. Now it could be that Brads comment from the other day indicated that was in fact off the table now. Or it could have been him just meaning this game wouldnt be pay to win? IDK for sure. But I dont think other than that quote theyve ever specifically and with finality "No Cash Shop". But that could be fixed with a simple word from Brad or Kilsin Im sure.
Pantz said:Wow at the Facebook post on this. Over 200 comments with many of them in favor of having a cash shop.
Think we should get a screenshot reward for this troublesome topic, Kilsin :P
Considering Facebook has a higher population of younger people that haven't experenced the Older MMO's and cash shops are the norm for them, were majority of posters on this site are from the older generation of MMO's
This is from the "Then and Now" thread pg. 4
Pantheon is not EQ 1 with better graphics -- check out the FAQ, tenets, differentiators, etc.
cash shop? Not going to happen.. "
this is from Aradune. Didn't know how to past it from his exact statement so just copied and pasted.
Yeah, but the way I read it is that you will not get P2W - meaning you will never buy anything that affects gameplay in any way - ever. I am all about that. I don't care if it is as week as giving you +1% runspeed on a road! NOTHING can be sold that gives ANYONE an advantage in any way should ever be sold.
BUT - a pair of pink fuzzy bunny slippers that only YOU can see isn't going to affect game-play UNLESS there is actually a class that can create the same pair of pink fuzzy bunny slippers. If there is a crafting option for it - then it should not be in the cash shop.
As long as those two caveats are met - I would be for it. No affecting game play and nothing that can be created within the game itself.
Nephretiti said:Yeah, but the way I read it is that you will not get P2W - meaning you will never buy anything that affects gameplay in any way - ever. I am all about that. I don't care if it is as week as giving you +1% runspeed on a road! NOTHING can be sold that gives ANYONE an advantage in any way should ever be sold.
BUT - a pair of pink fuzzy bunny slippers that only YOU can see isn't going to affect game-play UNLESS there is actually a class that can create the same pair of pink fuzzy bunny slippers. If there is a crafting option for it - then it should not be in the cash shop.
As long as those two caveats are met - I would be for it. No affecting game play and nothing that can be created within the game itself.
That's it I am so raiding on a full plate wearing tank with Fluffly bunny slippers.
Nephretiti said:I still say you are trying to force your will upon folks and how they like to play. Let the player make the decision as to how they play. I understand how you want to play. It is the same way I want to play. But I would rather let the masses pay for fluff. Your way of thinking is why EQ2 did so poorly vs. WoW. It is one thing to want a REAL game with some challenge but when it comes down to it - the masses pay the bills. Rather than try to make a go at it with just the real gamers (us) I would like to see an attempt to appease the masses in such a way as it has virtually no affect on us. Just give us the widget to turn that crap off.
Cash Shop is unhealthy, let the fluff be aquire thru the game if there are any.
Nephretiti said:BUT - a pair of pink fuzzy bunny slippers that only YOU can see isn't going to affect game-play UNLESS there is actually a class that can create the same pair of pink fuzzy bunny slippers. If there is a crafting option for it - then it should not be in the cash shop.
But, it still could even if crafter's couldn't create a pair of pink fuzzy bunny slippers. You're forgetting about opportunity cost: the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen.
Since the player has a pair of appearance shoes, he may be more likely to not buy an appearance shoe slot from the crafter since he already has an alternative.
Nephretiti said:I am SORELY dissappointed in those voting no and for the reasons they are giving. You should not be able to determine whether or not someone plays with fluff items in-game. I agree that it may cause YOU to lose your immersion, but like I said - simply adding a widget to turn that stuff off from your own view would be enough to remove that "worry" from your play style. By voting no, all you are doing is corrupting the play of those that want the fluff items. You should be ashamed of yourselves!
If however a cash shop opens up and it DOES lead to affecting in-game mechanics in any way (other than fluff/appeal) then I will most likely log out for the final time. I think they should either have a crafting class that creates housing items (furniture etc.) like EQ2 then thats great. But if they do not - then they simply must have a shop if for no other reason than to let me buy a friggen dining room table for my in-game house that has no effect on game play or mechanics in any way.
Again, you should have a strong desire to NOT turn away potential players (and subs) just because YOU think they shouldn't be able to wear a pink tutu and a racoon skin hat. Let them wear whatever crap that want - so long as we can turn that crap off from our own client it should have no effect on you in any way.
For those wondering - no - I would not wear that fluffy crap. I WILL be utilizing the "don't crayloa-puke on me" widget.
Just a few concerns about this. If widgets are allowed to turn off people's pink tutus then why have a shop to sell them if people turn it off anyway? So that 'one' player can watch his own toon run around in game in a pink tutu? Really? Is this a thing? I don't think it's that important.
Second, If people would not sub for Pantheon because they couldn't buy pink tutus then I would stronly argue they are probably not playing the game they really want to.
Am I missing something? Surely there must be dozens of titles already where they can relieve their consumerist anxieties and purchase to their hearts content?
OakKnower said:
Nephretiti said:I am SORELY dissappointed in those voting no and for the reasons they are giving. You should not be able to determine whether or not someone plays with fluff items in-game. I agree that it may cause YOU to lose your immersion, but like I said - simply adding a widget to turn that stuff off from your own view would be enough to remove that "worry" from your play style. By voting no, all you are doing is corrupting the play of those that want the fluff items. You should be ashamed of yourselves!
If however a cash shop opens up and it DOES lead to affecting in-game mechanics in any way (other than fluff/appeal) then I will most likely log out for the final time. I think they should either have a crafting class that creates housing items (furniture etc.) like EQ2 then thats great. But if they do not - then they simply must have a shop if for no other reason than to let me buy a friggen dining room table for my in-game house that has no effect on game play or mechanics in any way.
Again, you should have a strong desire to NOT turn away potential players (and subs) just because YOU think they shouldn't be able to wear a pink tutu and a racoon skin hat. Let them wear whatever crap that want - so long as we can turn that crap off from our own client it should have no effect on you in any way.
For those wondering - no - I would not wear that fluffy crap. I WILL be utilizing the "don't crayloa-puke on me" widget.
Just a few concerns about this. If widgets are allowed to turn off people's pink tutus then why have a shop to sell them if people turn it off anyway? So that 'one' player can watch his own toon run around in game in a pink tutu? Really? Is this a thing? I don't think it's that important.
Second, If people would not sub for Pantheon because they couldn't buy pink tutus then I would stronly argue they are probably not playing the game they really want to.
Am I missing something? Surely there must be dozens of titles already where they can relieve their consumerist anxieties and purchase to their hearts content?
Another way to look at cosmetics for sale via a shop, as well as via crafters, is that it caters to two different audiences. The first caters to those that are cash rich (they buy the item with real world money) whereas the second caters to those that are time rich (they buy the item with in game currency). It doesn't have to be a mutually exclusive solution.
Nope, nope, and more nope.
I want a world I can transport to and live in. Breathe in. Die in. I cannot wait to adventure to some of those far off lands that so far look amazing, which could possibly look even better in the time to come, and just lose hours with friends and foes alike. The awe and wonder of a new dungeon or wandering around a castle long forgotten by the locals. Singing songs and casting spells with my mates as we slay hundreds of orcs and bloody our swords with even more goblins.
I want that 'login' or 'enter' button to be my transport from this world to Terminus. The PC to be my tether. And I want NOTHING from the outside world interfering with that. When I'm in Terminus I want everything I see or do to be Terminus. I don't want any separate entities or outside sources tainting Pantheon.
A cash shop would require real life money, money that is not found in Terminus and every item bought and worn from the cash shop would remind us that Pantheon is just another game. And I don't want just another game. When I walk around Terminus I want to believe I'm walking around some fantasy land filled with magic and monsters but if I see a player with an item from the cash shop I will know that that player obtained that item from an online store on the internet with a debit card rather than with gold from their coffers or from looted treasure.
NoobieDoo said:Nope, nope, and more nope.
I want a world I can transport to and live in. Breathe in. Die in. I cannot wait to adventure to some of those far off lands that so far look amazing, which could possibly look even better in the time to come, and just lose hours with friends and foes alike. The awe and wonder of a new dungeon or wandering around a castle long forgotten by the locals. Singing songs and casting spells with my mates as we slay hundreds of orcs and bloody our swords with even more goblins.
I want that 'login' or 'enter' button to be my transport from this world to Terminus. The PC to be my tether. And I want NOTHING from the outside world interfering with that. When I'm in Terminus I want everything I see or do to be Terminus. I don't want any separate entities or outside sources tainting Pantheon.
A cash shop would require real life money, money that is not found in Terminus and every item bought and worn from the cash shop would remind us that Pantheon is just another game. And I don't want just another game. When I walk around Terminus I want to believe I'm walking around some fantasy land filled with magic and monsters but if I see a player with an item from the cash shop I will know that that player obtained that item from an online store on the internet with a debit card rather than with gold from their coffers or from looted treasure.
Hear, hear.
Umbra said:OakKnower said:
Nephretiti said:
Another way to look at cosmetics for sale via a shop, as well as via crafters, is that it caters to two different audiences. The first caters to those that are cash rich (they buy the item with real world money) whereas the second caters to those that are time rich (they buy the item with in game currency). It doesn't have to be a mutually exclusive solution.
I quess I make the assumption that the only audience concerned is the one that buys a particular game to play irrespective of wether or not there are cash shops.
I do have to question that if there is a way to obtain pink tutus via in-game crafters or an existant cash shop that I might consider saving my money and going with the crafter instead. Likewise, the cash shop is likely to earn much less if they offer crafters the ability to produce the same offered pink tutus. No?
What is Pantheon’s Revenue Model? Will the game be pay to play, free to play, freemium or what?
We are considering either using the traditional subscription based model or a model where the player buys the game and then has the option of purchasing mini-expansions or ‘modules’ after launch. Either way, the game’s world will continue to expand, more content will be added, as well as new features and mechanics. Visionary Realms strongly believes that the revenue model of an MMO needs to match the game’s target audience. Because of this, Pantheon will not be ‘freemium’ or have ‘cash shops’ -- building your character and advancing in-game will be based on time invested and tactics used, not on how much money the player has in real life.
This is from the FAQ....it quite clearly says NO CASH SHOPS. No other way to read that, no "well I thought it meant no P2W" nope it says Pantheon will NOT have cash shop, right there in the bolded part. It even goes as far as saying that building your character will be based on time invested...not on real life money.
... and still, not one decent reason to prevent a cash shop. All I see is people responding that they don't have the money (so don't buy and hide fluff), they don't want folks buying stuff that could give them an advantage (not going to happen), or they dont want them to sell items in a cash shop that a crafter could make (again, if a crafter can make it - then it shouldn't be in a cash shop - we are in agreement here).
Look - I agree with you guys here - I do NOT want to see fluff items. That is why I want the widget. BUT - there is no reason to prevent the DevTeam from making a few extra bucks by selling crap WE won't buy but others will. I WANT the DevTeam to be successful. I WANT them to make boatloads of money. I want them to have the development freedom a lot of extra cash will bring them.
BTW - no one buys fluff items to show off to other players. They buy it so they can see it themselves, post screenshots, show their kids what their parents are doing online etc.
When I play - I could give a crap what you see when you look at me...
I went back and searched some old posts and would like to correct myself. Kilsin has said in the past no "current" plans for cash shop. But didnt rule it out in the future should they NEED the extra income due to low player population etc.
For clarity Im just posting things that I remebered about payment models and the like. I personally dont want anything other than services (server transfer etc). But back in one of the threads I searched some of the Ideas got pretty crazy. And some it seemed to me that are now crying loudly against cash shops wanted things that seemed just as bad if not more unbalanced and unfair only as far back as March of this year! Like paying more for special privaledges on special servers
Kilsin said:What are your thoughts on purchasing in-game items, where should the line be drawn in your opinion?
Disclaimer: Predetermined CM Content created by myself months ago. :)
I dispise cash shops of any kind, but I understand that I'm not the one with a company to run.
I think in a perfect world subscriptions and game sales would be enough so that everyone was on the same footing. I don't want to feel like there's extra content I'm missing because I'm not willing to be nickle-and-dimed in a cash shop.
tehtawd said: Hello all. Woke up today with this great idea for a cash shop. I debated posting an entire thread on it but decided not to. Do basicly ... Cash shop or the Pantheon store is limited to real life gear. Mugs Pens Notebooks Maps Shirts Ball caps Bottle openers Miniatures of in game bosses or creatures Dice sets Key chains Backpacks Laptop bags Headphones and ear buds World maps Posters Mouse pads Ding button (a 'that was easy' button that makes a ding sound instead) Phone cases Kilsin piniata (he won't read this Hueh Hueh hueh) Sticky notes with funny pantheon loading screen sayings (because eq had some hilarious ones) Game inspired good items. Such as a bottle of juice in the shape of an in game ption of health or mana. Necklaces Bracelets Anklets #jewelry Frisbee Running out of ideas. But I would totally throw money at these things and they won't affect the game in any way whatsoever. Kilsin if you think this needs it's own topic throw it up. Sent via mobile -Todd
I read everything, everything! ;)
anyone else get the feeling Kilsins's threads are sometimes a way of feeling out the community/potential playerbase?
