Sevens said:...
What is Pantheon’s Revenue Model? Will the game be pay to play, free to play, freemium or what?
...
Quote from Brad implied
'free until level 10, then subscription $$'.
On the basis of this, I suggested (like a few games already do), that a subscription gives X 'Pant-eGold' per month. Where Pant-eGold is the game-shop currency.
It might be set at about 20 USD (think thats about 4000 AUD isnt it Kilsin?) per month subscription...
... and takes $5 from that $20 to give you in Pant-eGold (say 500 Pant-eGold).
Thus, Free-players *can* buy stuff (paying 1$ = 100 Pant-eGold) and subscribers get 500 Pant-eGold per month to spend on 'stuff'.
Personally do not think you should be able to buy anything that is a drop or questable in-game, but there are many *other* things that may be acceptible.
Eg :
POSSIBLES:
RP extras such as emotes, hair styles, skin-tones
Town-only extra pets (you keep them in pet basket)
unlockable class (minor) variants
LIKELIES:
Extra character slot(s) for Alt-aholics,
Server move (your char name has visible difference for 6 months)
Rename (your name in green with info in char sheet that says old name)
Change appearance token
DEFINITES
'Real world' stuff,
Eg 'Aradune shaped knife-block',
Eg atlas / maps
Eg 'Help I am stuck in Australia Terminus' mugs
Calico Cat pet that lives (and peeks out of) my backpack
Subscriptions
You get the (possibly bad) idea
Pantz said:Wow at the Facebook post on this. Over 200 comments with many of them in favor of having a cash shop.
Think we should get a screenshot reward for this troublesome topic, Kilsin :P
FaceBook = FTP
These forums and Pantheon - Not so much
To me that and of itself says volumes.
In game purchases are a brilliant way for the the company to make money. Subscribers go up and down; however, creating an economy for goods via in game purchases is just smart for VR. Consider Everquest, which I am currently playing. Many would say that it is has ruined the game; however, it has also keeps the revenue stream consistent for the game company as subs decrease. I would strongly urge VR to do this.
Still think the coolest idea I've seen for a shop was 3d printed character and mob figurines. They could add a button at character select and in your inventory that could save a 3d copy of your character. Also in the beastiary of your journal they could add a similar button next to mobs you discovered. Hit the Order 3d Model button and it loads the web storefront placing the 3d model in your cart.
fazool said:OMG - I read this and the fact the Kilsin posted it and I got this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.
This topic creates a terrible visceral response in me. Let me explain why:
Back in the day SOE posed a question to get people's thoughts on this topic. There was an overwhelming response from the forums screaming "Oh, Hell no!". Then they ran an in-game poll and you could tell the answers were very negative because they kept making announcements that were "sales pitchy" trying to soothe everyone that this won't ruin the game. In other words, they (Smed?) made up their mind and were trying to sell the customer-base on the idea.
Well, it started out innocently enough with : "nothing that could help you in game. Just appearance items." There is a huge fallacy in that argument, however. A lot of people strive for appearance items (search for my post about the purple pants). Strutting around with your Fiery Avenger was a very big deal. The appearance thing totally trivialized that concept and suddenly anyone could have any cool look they wanted without have to hunt for it (save time and effort) without having to research and find it (save time and effort) without having to quest for it (save time and effort) and without taking any risks to get it (save time and effort).
Even the "appearance only" argument totally dumbs down the game and serves the instant gratification demographic.
Appearance is one reward of the gameplay and letting people buy it, is the same as letting them buy power, level, skills or experience.
Then, to make things even worse, they started adding potions. Again, the argument being "this is temporary so won't permanently give you an advantage in the game". *BS*! I could spend RL money and buy hundreds of mana, clarity, healing and XP pots and be light years ahead of other players who don't spend RL money.
Then, continuing their trend of doubling down on a bad idea, they started selling armor kits. Their argument being "new players need to catch up o the mature population"....This one is so game-ruining I don't even know how to explain it.
There should never, ever, ever, ever be any in-game purchases of any type. They are a game degrading, ruinous short-sighted money grab. They generate a little cash at the beginning but they make the game shallow and shorten its life.
I said it then (and was right) so I'll say it now, with that proven experience :
Oh, Hell no!
I have a bad feeling about this one. I felt like I had missed something on this so I read though it getting flash backs of previous MMO's that have gone the way of the dinosaur.
I think to add to your statement about allowing people to pretty much purchase content and that is how I see it. We should have Brad and Co go ahead and put in flying mounts. We all know that is next with game cards and gear. heavy sarcasm alert!!!
I do not want to see a shop. It creates the wrong environment and I could have sworn Brad said not to this and was pretty colorful about it. This leads to a bunch of questions about funding for me.
Sick feeling in my stomach indeed!
Ox
Ok, I've been thinking long and hard about this. My main reason why I don't want cash shops has already been stated. It's a HUGE immersion breaker for me.
Another reason though is because it always seems that the companies that introduce cash shops say one thing and then never follow up on their word. ESO is the most recent offenders of this. They say they won't add anything to the cash shop that can give an edge in the game yet they almost always do, or maybe it is always.
But I was thinking and there might be a way for VRi to include a cash shop and it would never affect the base/core game ever. And it's something that could be added in later in the game and it would be a way for them to make extra money.
The idea is this; later down the road VRi adds in a new game system/feature to Pantheon. Something REALLY big right now are TCG's, trading card games. They've already started this with diplomacy in VG and can take it to the next level. They can make it more in depth. They can make it possible where 2 players can battle each other and win cards from each other. They can make it a fully fledged card game and not a half-baked card game like diplomacy was in VG though it was still a well established feature. They can make a nice card game that also affects the game similar to how diplomacy did or even have it affect the world in different ways. The nice thing about this is, that a trading card game is known to have a 'cash shop'. You can either win cards on your own in game or you can buy them with real money. This could provide the team with a much added boost to revenue as well as create a cash shop that doesn't affect the meat of the game. No swords, no hats, no xp pots, no health pots, no assistants, no items to add to the game world other than cards. The worst this could do is if it worked like how it did in VG and give the city diplo buffs buying cards could give you an edge.
OR it could be something else other than a TCG. But with Pantheon being the spiritual successor then why not have the next evolution of diplomacy and let the cash shop run wild with it if a cash shop is inevitable. In the end I would still like for no cash shop but this could be an alternative that leaves a small footprint on the core game.
edit. I say diplomacy was half-baked simply because it could have been even better than what it was. But that might be because I'm a long time MTG player and I have a strong opinion of card games.
Dullahan said:Still think the coolest idea I've seen for a shop was 3d printed character and mob figurines. They could add a button at character select and in your inventory that could save a 3d copy of your character. Also in the beastiary of your journal they could add a similar button next to mobs you discovered. Hit the Order 3d Model button and it loads the web storefront placing the 3d model in your cart.
I agree. That is an awesome idea especially since I still have my pewter dire bear mount figurine from EQ2 sitting on the base of my monitor. I could also see a line of Pantheon Pop! Vinyls being fun to collect.
Obliquity said:Would rathey pay a higher monthly subscription than have a Cash Shop. They start off with fluff and only get worse from there.
I agree. Once the cash shop has been established they must upgrade and add more items. Eventually limits are reached and they must upgrade to sell 'other things'. It's a gateway drug to sad addicts.
Edit: I'm only in disagreement with in-game items. Mugs, shirts, etc. are fine by me.
OakKnower said:Edit: I'm only in disagreement with in-game items. Mugs, shirts, etc. are fine by me.
Wouldnt mind that kind of shop.
VR should be doing this now tho, on the website. That way we could be giving Pantheon stuff to friends/family it would spread the word and make some extra $.
I've found as others have stated that games tend to nickel and dime you to death , regardless of what platform i play most games tend to go that way . As I've said before charge me more up front via a subscription then to ever allow a cash shop ..
I personally have totally stopped playing all games that are FTP or have cash shops , don't mind paying to play or test .
I so am looking forward to a subscription , seriously gives me such a warm fuzzy feeling to know I pay to play rather then pay to win :):):)
Makes the games all the better ( just my personal opinion ) ...
Obliquity said:OakKnower said:Edit: I'm only in disagreement with in-game items. Mugs, shirts, etc. are fine by me.
Wouldnt mind that kind of shop.
VR should be doing this now tho, on the website. That way we could be giving Pantheon stuff to friends/family it would spread the word and make some extra $.
Good idea. Get the word out. They might already be considering such a thing.
I also think the 3d designer idea that Dullahan mentions above is such a great idea. +10
I'm very much against in-game shops for in-game items, and that includes cosmetic items. I'm a big fan of you wear what you loot, and if you want a different look out of combat equip the cosmetic gear you saved. I loved games that would let you see the players around you and their accomplishments by what they had equipped. I’ve never been a fan of altering gear (transmorg, color alteration, etc…), although I know this topic really splits the community.
But, for emphasis, I don’t like or want cash shops for in-game items.
Nephretiti said:... and still, not one decent reason to prevent a cash shop. All I see is people responding that they don't have the money (so don't buy and hide fluff), they don't want folks buying stuff that could give them an advantage (not going to happen), or they dont want them to sell items in a cash shop that a crafter could make (again, if a crafter can make it - then it shouldn't be in a cash shop - we are in agreement here).
Look - I agree with you guys here - I do NOT want to see fluff items. That is why I want the widget. BUT - there is no reason to prevent the DevTeam from making a few extra bucks by selling crap WE won't buy but others will. I WANT the DevTeam to be successful. I WANT them to make boatloads of money. I want them to have the development freedom a lot of extra cash will bring them.
BTW - no one buys fluff items to show off to other players. They buy it so they can see it themselves, post screenshots, show their kids what their parents are doing online etc.
When I play - I could give a crap what you see when you look at me...
Just wanted to respond to the high lighted part
The best argument against a cash shop is that if in game items are available then the designers WILL design items for the cash shop and not the game, All the cool armors will be there, not in game. All the awsome furniture for your house will be there, not in game. And eventually things will be designed with the sole purpose of funneling you to the cash shop, it will become intursive into the game. You want fluff items in the game, great...as you said its for YOUR enjoyment and Im cool with that (as long as I can turn it off as you said) but why not let the Tradeskillers make those items in game? why not let the people who have invested (usually) great amounts of time and in game money reap the rewards of their efforts instead of just dumping crap onto the game store.
tehtawd said: (OakKnower said: Edit: I'm only in disagreement with in-game items. Mugs, shirts, etc. are fine by me. Wouldnt mind that kind of shop. VR should be doing this now tho, on the website. That way we could be giving Pantheon stuff to friends/family it would spread the word and make some extra $.)) That's an awesome idea. And it's getting close to the holiday season. Also thought it would be cool to buy physical goods which are crafted from in game models. Such as pillows, lamps etc. I mean... I want the dwarf god-kings lamp he uses in his study. That situation could come up. The artistic styles of pantheon can become profitable. I don't see somebody buying wood flooring in Archai style any time soon. But a throw blanket made with the same style as the blanket you see in any inn would be nice. Omg.. Dwarf steins. Elven wine cups. A vial of water from the original homeworld of the dark myr. Too many ideas. Sent via mobile -Todd
Wow, something we actually agree on, Great ideas here.
Aradune said:Woops, been crazy busy and missed this. No plans for Cash Shops. Shops will only sell items for in-game currency earned in-game.
Marilee said:I'm very happy to know that Brad has stated unequivocally that there will be no cash shop.
Thanks -- I was pretty sure I'd said it, unequivocally, and more than once :)
Release the doves!
Sevens said:Just wanted to respond to the high lighted part
The best argument against a cash shop is that if in game items are available then the designers WILL design items for the cash shop and not the game, All the cool armors will be there, not in game. All the awsome furniture for your house will be there, not in game. And eventually things will be designed with the sole purpose of funneling you to the cash shop, it will become intursive into the game. You want fluff items in the game, great...as you said its for YOUR enjoyment and Im cool with that (as long as I can turn it off as you said) but why not let the Tradeskillers make those items in game? why not let the people who have invested (usually) great amounts of time and in game money reap the rewards of their efforts instead of just dumping crap onto the game store.
This debate all leads back to the exact same reasoning. I am disappointed in the community here for the ONLY logic they seem to be able to apply here leads to one conclusion:
You have absolutely no faith in the DevTeam in it's ability to run a company or create a cash shop that will not infringe upon the players themselves. I have absolute faith in them and their decisions. It is, after all their design and their game. Most of these guys have proven time and again that they know what they are doing.
I am done with this debate. I will not be replying here again.
Nephretiti said:
This debate all leads back to the exact same reasoning. I am disappointed in the community here for the ONLY logic they seem to be able to apply here leads to one conclusion:
You have absolutely no faith in the DevTeam in it's ability to run a company or create a cash shop that will not infringe upon the players themselves. I have absolute faith in them and their decisions. It is, after all their design and their game. Most of these guys have proven time and again that they know what they are doing.
I am done with this debate. I will not be replying here again.
Um... you do realize that Brad McQuaid himself came into this thread and reaffirmed yet again that there will be no cash shop? You can be disappointed in people for not coming around to your way of thinking all you want but the word from THE MAN HIMSELF is no cash shop. Therefore the debate is moot and having you chastise people because they don't agree with your line of thinking is really bratty.
Nephretiti said:Sevens said:Just wanted to respond to the high lighted part
The best argument against a cash shop is that if in game items are available then the designers WILL design items for the cash shop and not the game, All the cool armors will be there, not in game. All the awsome furniture for your house will be there, not in game. And eventually things will be designed with the sole purpose of funneling you to the cash shop, it will become intursive into the game. You want fluff items in the game, great...as you said its for YOUR enjoyment and Im cool with that (as long as I can turn it off as you said) but why not let the Tradeskillers make those items in game? why not let the people who have invested (usually) great amounts of time and in game money reap the rewards of their efforts instead of just dumping crap onto the game store.
This debate all leads back to the exact same reasoning. I am disappointed in the community here for the ONLY logic they seem to be able to apply here leads to one conclusion:
You have absolutely no faith in the DevTeam in it's ability to run a company or create a cash shop that will not infringe upon the players themselves. I have absolute faith in them and their decisions. It is, after all their design and their game. Most of these guys have proven time and again that they know what they are doing.
I am done with this debate. I will not be replying here again.
Youre disappointed in the community for not having faith in a company for not doing all they can to expand their profit margin? Ok. I have faith in the Dev team to build a great game, I dont have faith in the board of directors (or investors) for not pushing or insisting on things. It has happened before, will happen again and again and again. but as was said this argument is moot as there will be no cash shop as decreed from upon high
Dullahan said:Still think the coolest idea I've seen for a shop was 3d printed character and mob figurines. They could add a button at character select and in your inventory that could save a 3d copy of your character. Also in the beastiary of your journal they could add a similar button next to mobs you discovered. Hit the Order 3d Model button and it loads the web storefront placing the 3d model in your cart.
I kinda like this idea, but I'd prefer this to somehow be connected to one's account and not be directly in the game itself, because immersion.
I'd buy a 3d model of my character in a heartbeat. This would be especially cool if one retires one's high level character.
