Nanoushka said:I'd rather not see it all.
I'm fine with "out of game" items, like t-shirts, figurines, mugs, whatever. Not a fan of in game items tho, even if it's just fluff.
That is fair enough, I am not a fan of it myself for a few reasons but it is interesting hearing everyone's thoughts on it and reasons for wanting it or not wanting it.
Kilsin said:Why, though? The explanation is what I am interested in the most mate :)
Well, i remember alot of games, that start selling "useless ingame items", like pets (cats, dogs), 'nicer looking' cloth and similar stuff. After awhile, they start selling EXP, HP, Mana, Whatever-Potions. Later on Charslots and oder Powerups... So... If you prevent this kinda sale from the very beginning, it wont end up is such a disaster. I think, you should stick with RL Shop, like Shirts and other Gimmicks. Ingame-Sales should be managed by players, w/ their own looted or handcrafted stuff, to keep the economy going and not giving rich players 'easy mode'.
Pandora's box. It leads to other things that lead to other things that soon just get out of hand, next thing you know you have a cash shop. Out of game items as said by Nanoushka sure I would actually like those. Such as the items that some of us are waiting on for supporting the game, maps, lore books, etc..
Big no for me aswell. often shop is as i said in the tweet a way for company to make it p2w to earn money. instead i want to see craafting as my store
"cosmetic" should be crafted and BoE and nametag by the crafter.
"potion" crafted aswell and no xp+ or **** like that only health and buffs
"mounts/pets" should be earnd from questing etc
well you get my point i dont want a store :P
maybe Kilsin if you fix a store whit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdsgN6u9mdk
Kilsin said:lyrina said:a simple: NO
Why, though? The explanation is what I am interested in the most mate :)
In a game like Pantheon, players want to be able to earn their items in game. It shows that regardless of how much money you could throw at the game in Real Life, the only way you can earn items is through your efforts in game. The type of players Pantheon attracts respect (and look forward) to the fact that a player put effort into gaining a mount rather than buying one on the cash shop.
I think specific character services such as name changes, character appearance change, server change, race change, would be something worth spending real money on. Beyond these basic services, I am extremely hesitant to say that I'm okay with anything else.
I look at the recent examples of ArcheAge and now Black Desert with cash shops that may have seemed harmless at one point but just became poison that ruined the game's economy. I feel like perhaps many people are in the same boat, having been scarred by games that could have been intriguing but became a money grab. I don't even want to think or talk about the amount of real money I spent on ArcheAge.
If the developers at Visionary Realms honestly believe that they need a cash shop and the additional revenue it can create to support the game, then I think there need to be hard limits. NEVER an item with stats. NEVER an item that offers any true advantage. Honestly though, I would rather pay a monthly sub of $20 instead of $15 if it meant no cash shop. I feel as though many people in the target audience feel the same. Perhaps I'm wrong on that, but I honestly do believe it.
I can't think of a game that did a cash shop well. Even if you're only offering non-stat items such as pretty costumes or pretty pets in the cash store, it still becomes a mark of prestige, a stamp of segregation. "Who has the cute cash shop panda pet? Oh you don't? You scrub!" Even if the items sold in the cash shop aren't worth any tangible benefit, the intangible is just as important. The elitism and snobbery that can often accompany cash items can be very toxic.
I just don't want a cash shop. I've told everyone that I've been blabbing to Pantheon about that the best part about the game after the recent disasters by Trion and Daum is the question in the FAQ that explicitly states that there will be no cash shop.
Temmi said:[...]
Honestly though, I would rather pay a monthly sub of $20 instead of $15 if it meant no cash shop. I feel as though many people in the target audience feel the same. Perhaps I'm wrong on that, but I honestly do believe it.
[...]
Yeah! If you guys really run a ingame-store-thing, maybe you should consider making a "hardcore-server" (w/o anykinda shopfeatures...) or something. Like Temmi said, instead of 12,99$/Month, make it 19,99$/Month or something (in case you guys -really- need the extra-money, you know). I remember "Legends"-Server, back in EQ. Extra Costs, but more fun, more service... Maybe you should plan, to bring more services to players and charge em more, instead of doing an ingame-shop...
Brad specifically said " No Cash Shop, it will NEVER happen" ! So I am sure the masses would revolt if some type of shop was implemented. Back to the T-shirts, maps, mugs, figurines, etc...from a VR website, I see no problem with. Once a shop of any sort is put in, i guarantee you there will start to be a move to keep adding and adding items to that shop, snowball effect
I'll post my thoughts on what I posted on RMT over on MMORPG awhile back - I believe it applies to a cash shop as well:
"No one is arguing that the game should cater to us - we want the game to be fair. If we lived in a world where everyone had the same expendable income one could make the argument that RMT is fair, but we don't. The cheating aspect is subjective, if a game allows RMT, then it's not cheating; however, I would argue that it is, and at the very least, majorly cheapens the game experience. I'll expand a bit...
RMT = external advantage in game. And you're argument that RMT doesn't affect my or other's gameplay is ridiculous. It affects adventuring by introducing oftentimes terrible players who have bought their gear and/or characters. It trivializes content/challenge by offering an external way to achieve a goal when the whole idea of playing a game is to "play the game" not buy your way to success. It ruins the economy as in-game currency becomes so inflated that if you're not RMT or constantly farming 24/7, you can't afford to purchase anything. It introduces a ridiculous amount of gold farmers/bots with their sole desire is to make as much coin as possible to sell online, which basically makes instancing mandatory as every single spawn would be locked down. That's enough for now though, as others have said, there are plenty of P2W games available that appear to be "catering" to what you desire - I'd suggest checking those out."
As far as buyable server transfers/name changes, etc. go, I would be opposed to those as well. In a game where player reputation matters, I don't want to provide buyable options for anonymity.
So, like a few other previous posters, I would be ok with any external Pantheon-related items - cloth maps, coffee cups, T-Shirts or... basically just swag :).
In many ways I don't give a damn how other people play the game, as long as it doesn't have a negative effect on my game.
With a cash shop for in-game items it seems to lead to 'rare' and 'special' items being all over the place and no matter your feelings on whether or not it 'degrades your achievements' to have people buy their way to victory, certainly makes those items less special and literally makes them less rare and valuable.
Most devs realise this and cash shops seem to make most sales in the area of cosmetics (outfits, pets, mounts, etc.). Another thing that leads to 'cool' stuff being degraded is everyone running around with exotic and 'special looking' outfits, pets, mounts, etc. I *really* want my high-fantasy world to not devolve into a whacky fashion show. I'm generally not a fan of fluff items, so proliferation via cash shop is doubly undesirable.
The other thing that seems to get into cash shop is 'advantage' items, like XP bonuses, travel tokens, power-ups, etc. Again, to a certain extent, I don't care how other people play, *but* you end up with high-level players who aren't actually very experienced at the game which degrades everyone's experience. You end up with social difficulties as a tendency, partly by annoyance at their inexperience, but partly because the kind of people who pay-to-win aren't the kind who get involved in patient and careful raid planning or slow and convivial dungeon crawling. The kind of people we want to play the game are the kind of people who want to play the game.
Could you have a server for more 'soft-core' players with cash-shop pay-to-win options? Yeah sure. Please don't allow server transfers when they are high level and finding it too easy though...
A no from me too... There should be nothing in the game that can only be bought using real money. If you want vanity items etc then they should be looted / crafted in game. As others have stated, I would rather pay a higher monthly sub than there be a cash shop.
Paid services are fine, though things like name and server changes should have lengthy cooldowns to prevent people behaving poorly and then just moving on to behave poorly somewhere else.
I would be ok with a one off item for a specific charity, I recall WoW doing something, I think it was a pet after the tsunami and all proceeds going to help the victims.
Like some said out of game items are fine.
But a cash-shop in game is not, not even cosmetics with no stats in my eyes.
One of the fun things in EQ was to get cool looking stuff and clicky's with illusions(I had bags full of it).
And you could see who had what armor or weapons(epic and stuff).
People should put in effort to get items and cosmetic items rather than just buying them, it feels so much more satisfying when you get a cool looking piece all by your self(or with friends) from questing/farming/crafting or whatever.
I rather pay more sub each month then seeing a cash-shop in game.
And if there must be a cash-shop for economic reasons I like the idea of having a legend server that cost more sub each month with no cash-shop at all.
I'm not a big fan of a cash shop.
I like to plan how much money I have to spend to play and enjoy a game. If there is only a monthly fee, then this is pretty good plannable. If the fee is 12.99 or 19.99 doesn't matter that much. But if there is a shop then I theoretically could spend much more money. In particular if spending RL money will bring advantages in game.
Maybe one time purchases would be ok. Like mounts, pets, character slots, additional content. I would not like a cash shop of this kind, but maybe could live with it.
If it comes to something like labor point potions, where you can buy more or less an infinite amount of, then this is an absolutely no go for me.
First impulse would be a resounding NO, however, it is proven that that's where the money is and if it helps keep the game profitable for VR then I would be ok with fluff items such as stupid little pets that dont do anything or perhaps dyes that can change the colour of your armour. Definitely NO items that would advance your character in any way though.
Cheers,
Ironbark
Nope.
As much as I loved the cardboard tube weapons I had in EQ1 (I'm a fan of those comics from PA), they were simply visual mods that cost me $1 and I didn't have to work for it at all. On the other-hand, other items that I used mostly as toys were my illusion masks which I had to actually work for and I found them more fun in the end. So my preference is that little visual items, that would be in a store, be in-game and preferably not a lot of them. I would like to see some of the bonus items that would have been in a store be very limited to special one-time events too as a way to show off your feats in a maner other than raid gear.
Someone mentioned hp/mana/xp pots. I'm also against these, especially the exp pots. Adding items like that start the pay-to-play idea in peoples' minds, especially when they're added later on after we've worked so hard to level without them.
Aradune said:Pantheon is not EQ 1 with better graphics -- check out the FAQ, tenets, differentiators, etc.
Cash shop? Not going to happen.
That too ;)
I am playing Guild Wars 2 and for my point of view they make a fre good job with their cash shop. Why?
1.) You could buy anything with ingame gold, so you do not need to spend money if you have enough time.
2.) You can not buy anything which gives you a real boost or any kind of stats items.
3.) For me it is ok to pay for additional charakter slots, bank slots or bag slots.
4.) All the clothing is quite nice and why shouldn't anyone buy this as long as there is a clear boarder between clothing which was earned in the game by achievments than buying in the shop.
5.) Why not having an additional way to support the game (funding)? Ok GW2 is free and there for I sometime buy some crystals.
These were my 5 cents. :-)
A huge YES from me - with a caveat.
A cash shop allows for extra income for the team. The extra income really does allow for additional development. I am all for the team getting extra funding.
I would like to see a cash shop IFF the shop sold purely fluff items that could be seen but have no affect on the game at all. This means clothing, armor sets, housing and furniture etc. All with ONE major counter: Give us a widget to turn that stuff off if we dont want to see it. I do not want to see someone running around with fifteen cats. But if that someone is willing to give the DevTeam $100 so that HE can see him running around with 15 cats then I say more power to the DevTeam - take him for everything he's got. Just give me a button so that those cats dont appear on my screen.
Nephretiti said:The extra income really does allow for additional development.
...
housing and furniture
I actually like this idea (not putting down the rest of your post) especially if it's done where there aren't houses all over the place in the world. I somewhat enjoyed how EQ1 did it (I haven't played many MMOs with housing) where the "neighborhoods" were instanced. You could go visit other people's homes and look at all their stuff and the weapons they got etc, but it wasn't in your face as you adventured.
I know people feel that if something is in the store it should be obtainable in game, but as you stated, it's a good source for income.
skitarg said:Big no for me aswell. often shop is as i said in the tweet a way for company to make it p2w to earn money. instead i want to see craafting as my store
"cosmetic" should be crafted and BoE and nametag by the crafter.
"potion" crafted aswell and no xp+ or **** like that only health and buffs
"mounts/pets" should be earnd from questing etc
well you get my point i dont want a store :P
maybe Kilsin if you fix a store whit
Randolph the Red Nosed Reindeer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdsgN6u9mdk
I am now going to have nightmares, thanks! I erased that stupid thing from my mind years ago lol ;)
OMG - I read this and the fact the Kilsin posted it and I got this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.
This topic creates a terrible visceral response in me. Let me explain why:
Back in the day SOE posed a question to get people's thoughts on this topic. There was an overwhelming response from the forums screaming "Oh, Hell no!". Then they ran an in-game poll and you could tell the answers were very negative because they kept making announcements that were "sales pitchy" trying to soothe everyone that this won't ruin the game. In other words, they (Smed?) made up their mind and were trying to sell the customer-base on the idea.
Well, it started out innocently enough with : "nothing that could help you in game. Just appearance items." There is a huge fallacy in that argument, however. A lot of people strive for appearance items (search for my post about the purple pants). Strutting around with your Fiery Avenger was a very big deal. The appearance thing totally trivialized that concept and suddenly anyone could have any cool look they wanted without have to hunt for it (save time and effort) without having to research and find it (save time and effort) without having to quest for it (save time and effort) and without taking any risks to get it (save time and effort).
Even the "appearance only" argument totally dumbs down the game and serves the instant gratification demographic.
Appearance is one reward of the gameplay and letting people buy it, is the same as letting them buy power, level, skills or experience.
Then, to make things even worse, they started adding potions. Again, the argument being "this is temporary so won't permanently give you an advantage in the game". *BS*! I could spend RL money and buy hundreds of mana, clarity, healing and XP pots and be light years ahead of other players who don't spend RL money.
Then, continuing their trend of doubling down on a bad idea, they started selling armor kits. Their argument being "new players need to catch up o the mature population"....This one is so game-ruining I don't even know how to explain it.
There should never, ever, ever, ever be any in-game purchases of any type. They are a game degrading, ruinous short-sighted money grab. They generate a little cash at the beginning but they make the game shallow and shorten its life.
I said it then (and was right) so I'll say it now, with that proven experience :
Oh, Hell no!