Scenario: You're happily camping a named mob after waiting patiently to get the camp from someone else, along comes a random player who just starts competing for the named spawn without saying anything, you kindly ask them to stop and they ignore you - what do you do? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
Twitter Poll: https://twitter.com/PantheonMMO/status/1011201275759738881
If people just choose to ignore the (rest of the) community, is there really anything you can do without becoming a "bad boy" yourself? Personally I would rather leave in such situations. I hope that such behaviour is "reportable" however (with log files, maybe video proof). And that if those people repeatedly get reported, VR will take action against them.
Again, the scenario is made out to be about just one individual that is not "playing nice". It's easy to put one individual on ignore and never group with them.
What about when a guild of 60 individuals come and do that ? What CAN we do ? What if said mob we want to go camp already have a camp 24/7 by gold farmers ? What about then ?
Queue jumping is rude. Ignoring you is rude. The poll doesn't really cover all the options to respond to that, but for those not on Twitter the poll options (and current vote percentages) are: -
Whether they get reported or not surely depends upon if there is a Play Nice Policy. If there isn't it's pointless reporting them, because it's not considered something the GMs would be interested in.
If there is a decent PNP then it will cover incidents like the above. If it's outside the PNP, players should report it, otherwise they should compete as the PNP allows.
I find it depressing most would train them. Piling rudeness on rudeness is a recipe for escalation into a toxicity. It's understandable, I suppose, but passive-Aggressive 'PvP' on a PvE server is a bit of a sad thing to become a legit 'solution' to undesirable behaviour.
Personally, I would report them (if it's against PNP) and compete against them and, if that failed, I'd move on, but it would leave a sour taste to be rudely muscled off a camp.
I would hope that if a multitude of reports build up against someone then action would eventually be taken.
I like open world because it gives opportunities to play alongside and help others, not so I can push people off content they are enjoying. I don't need to stop someone else playing in order to enjoy the game.
There have already been multiple threads about this kind of issue, so I don't want to start another innevitable argument. We all know some enjoy contention and even conflict and some don't.
I will simply cross my fingers that VR plan to use their experience to make plans to avoid toxicity.
I would first compete for the camp (I dident see that as a twitterpoll option) and if I lose then move on to another camp or otherwise find something else to do
This is not a big enough deal to bother a GM with or expect any VR intervention.
THIS is a good example of why I would like a controlled PVP type server... a guy like described above would be the type to be in negative player faction and have a bounty on his head... In that case I would wait till he attacked the mob then gank his butt, call in the troupes and we would have a slaughter fest.
I know the player-reputation argument and we had a player (or two) on our server that had a bad reputation amongst other players. No one would group with them. They were known greifer(s), KS-ers and ninja-looters. But that didn't stop them.
I think there has to be some sort of balance. In general, I don't want artifically imposed behavioral restrictions (such as KS preventions) but there has to be some sort of protection for the little guy out there.
When this happens, I usually send tells to the person trying to "talk them out of KS-ing" and then negotiating a cooperation with them to collaborate and do it together for both of us, etc. Usually if the person is a total jerk, I'll log everything and report them to a GM and /petition it, and then slander them as much as I can.
Zorkon said:I would first compete for the camp (I dident see that as a twitterpoll option) and if I lose then move on to another camp or otherwise find something else to do
This is not a big enough deal to bother a GM with or expect any VR intervention.
THIS is a good example of why I would like a controlled PVP type server... a guy like described above would be the type to be in negative player faction and have a bounty on his head... In that case I would wait till he attacked the mob then gank his butt, call in the troupes and we would have a slaughter fest.
On Twitter Kilsin quickly replied saying the post is talking about a PvE environment.
PvP would indeed seem perfect for this kind of situation. To me, this speaks volumes about why, in a PvE server, this kind of scenario is so obviously undesireable and needing tools for resolution.
If all else fails I will try to get the boss I was after despite them, while mentioning what they are doing on world chat. And if they are in a guild mentioning the guild's name.
Based on the rules of most games I won't report them since camp stealing is not a violation - nor is rudeness. Obviously we don't know the Pantheon code of conduct yet.
I won't train them - I would rather lose a camp than resort to pvp on a pve server. I have often said that the game mechanics shouldn't permit training - I expect no luck arguing that issue but I still refuse to do it deliberately despite the provocation.
One reason for multiple characters - I will probably have a few more with things to do that I can switch to.
To answer the OP first; named mob. If playing in a FTE game with a named mob I need, load up my hotbar to include a few instas. I will be the first to engage. If playing under MDD, I will change the hot bar to nuke mode, let the unwelcome player draw the aggro from named. Unload nukes and I will have 51% Damage Dealt before the mob deaggros from him/her and gets to me. I will contest the named and if I fail at that point, then get the guild, alliance, and community involved.
Other scenarios:
variable 1) named mob in there or just mobs that you are farming. Share if the spawns are enough to support the uninvited player add. He/she can take north and I will take south.
variable 2) why I am I in this camp? can the same drop or materials be found elsewhere? If so, /bow to the prick (note name and guild) go elsewhere after getting no satisfactory results from a polite conversation with the interloper. Keep logs and screen shots. Perhaps there will be a bulletin board in local towns with the ability to put logs and screenies on or other way to display game data as proof of the existance of an disreputable situation.
My huge and mega problem with the concept of the original post is that it seems only the oldest school generation seems to even know what a camp is. Tell ya what; not once do I recall seeing the word "camp" used in WoW, SWTOR, GW2, Warhammer Online, and a few other games. I feel there is a language and concept barrier between EQ vanilla players and any player after ohhh about 2004. Calling down the wrath of the guilds onto a newer gen player that has never even heard of the word "camp" is a big concern to me. Many EQ concepts actually are, if not outright obsolete, at least not implemented in newer MMOs. Expecting the 15 YO who has only ever played Black Desert Online to have some form of intuitive osmosis-like ability to comprehend the concept of a camp is at the very least laughable.
Training from level 1 has to be in place to condition players to this concept first off. Game mechanics that promote good "Camp" behaviour should be present from level 2 onward ( maybe lower drop/money/XP rewards) for more recent arrivals to a specific location w/o harming the original person at that specific camp.
disposalist said:Zorkon said:I would first compete for the camp (I dident see that as a twitterpoll option) and if I lose then move on to another camp or otherwise find something else to do
This is not a big enough deal to bother a GM with or expect any VR intervention.
THIS is a good example of why I would like a controlled PVP type server... a guy like described above would be the type to be in negative player faction and have a bounty on his head... In that case I would wait till he attacked the mob then gank his butt, call in the troupes and we would have a slaughter fest.
On Twitter Kilsin quickly replied saying the post is talking about a PvE environment.
PvP would indeed seem perfect for this kind of situation. To me, this speaks volumes about why, in a PvE server, this kind of scenario is so obviously undesireable and needing tools for resolution.
yeah I read some of the twitter comments including that one. In a PVE situation I see "compete or consede" as the only option. I too would not train, or be the one steeling in the first place.
But I WOULD like the ability on a PVE server to defend "my" camp, but I also don't want to be on some dog eat dog gank fest PVP server..... there MUST be a way to find some middle ground where a player through fair and honorable game play can earn the right to defend themselves (against people training them) and or there camp.
As stated, if it's pure material grind I'd just compete because no one is able to own a full respawn area by himself and if he is stronger than me, well, he gets more than me.
If it's named mob camp, I'd try to get some communication, starting with jokes to relax the tense, and make things out by sole diplomacy (no Vanguard card game here).
If that fails, and the camp stealing is prohibited in the EULA of the game, I'd fill a report then compete for my camp. I won't leave my camp because there are chances the guy will get bored even before my named spawns, but if the guy is clearly outgearing me and would get the loot even if I load all my best damage and cooldown spells, then I would consider moving, but not withouth at least a contest try.
This is a hard question.
If they're truly ignoring me and obviously trying to get the named mob I'm there for, I think I would start trying to take steps to insure I got the kill. Maybe call in friends or guildies to help clear every single kill in the area so they would give up and leave.
That being said, at some point, whether it was me or someone else who was with me and got fed up - that person/group would likely get trained. I have a lot of patience, more than most. It wouldn't happen quickly. But the more people involved, sooner or later someone would try. In games where it's been possible, I don't think I've ever seen an example of the scenario you described that didn't end in one party giving up and leaving, or in a train.
Is it right? No. But it's more or less the only practical recourse that most people see, so it's what happens.
I would much prefer we don't have an environment where training is rampant, which is why I'm in favor of a design with strong mitigations around camp contention.
I am not one to train someone over anything so I would try to do what I can within the rules to claim the camp. But I would much rather see a system where there are no camps for names. Make every name have 6 or 10 spawn locaations far enough from each other that different groups could claim the different area, or would make a few groups have to roam a lot more to pull. I just hate static camps for names.
I'm probably already overdue for a break when they creep up. When someone else won't budge after tells, that can be a good excuse to cede the camp. I'm by far most likely to just go do something else, unless my to-do list has grown short or they're extra jerky. If they send a belligerent tell reply, they can strap in for some trolling and /rudes. Once I take a quick break knowing my camp is gone, I might butt back in as obnoxiously as possible (without intentional training). Chain fear all the PHs, kite the PHs around the zone for a few hours, move the PHs and chain-root them across an interior zone (PH hide-and-seek), send their guild leader a tell about them misrepresenting their name, whatever works. Turnabout is fair play, and without consequences, people don't modify their poor behaviors. If they see fit to waste my time, I have no problem wasting theirs in return - while making fun of a bad situation.
