I'm always the diplomat, so I'll try to work it out with the person if I can. If they're a good sport about it I'll probably even help them get their spawn and hold the camp. But if they're just being a prick about it there will be some competition and that may or may not involve friends.
Tralyan said:Create a forum separate from the official VR forums, assuming one isn't build already. Add "Rant and Flames", then name and shame that character as well as his guild.
Obvi.
Assuming reporting it doesn't help.
I remember a few like that from EverQuest back in the day. Believe one was EQ FV Soapbox or something like that. It's been a while. ;p
Offer to group up, if possible, and share the camp/spawn. Perhaps if the camp isn't a terribly long one, offer to do a rotation on loot needed if the mob drops a certain item many will need. This worked out in many games over the years, often creating (if not friendships) acquaintences and sometimes alliances. If the person responds favorably, great. If not, well, you have several options open to you on PvE. Call in reinforcements to assist you with securing your camp claim/helping clear away the encroacher via training, take a screenshot of the incident and open discourse with an officer in their guild (still trying to be diplomatic, because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt), or log-off and come back at a different time.
If I want to PvP, I'd be on a PvP server. There is no need to get all mouthy and rude even if someone else is doing exactly that. There are ways to deal with things without causing blood pressures to rise and rivalries to form. At least at first. If the same person/group/guild are found doing this as a habit, then things might get more interesting on the community level.
Boulda said:Yay a poll I can't vote on.
This.
The answer is you play within the rules to defend the camp, if they won't play nice. You try to do the right thing but you are not a pushover who just lets these jerks get away with whatever they want.
Keno Monster said:Boulda said:Yay a poll I can't vote on.
This.
Hate to be a rabble rouser, but this is a valid point. Shouldn't this be the other way around? The link to the actual poll on Twitter, while the poll itself is located on the forums where people have supported the game with funds? That would go more with the way Pantheon was advertized, as not catering to the loud masses.
Does seem a little backwards.
First is I propose him to join me and share the camp . This often works if one repeats it .
If he doesn't answer, I do what I did in lower Guk .
With a friend we were camping the AM . A necro comes and sets up in our camp with a charmed frog . He doesn't react and when we explain that we were camping AM he just answers "Go f.. yourself . I (enchanter) dispel his pet, the necro FD and we kill his pet . He invis and runs away . I know what comes next and indeed a train comes . I AOE mezz faster than the necro dispells and we derail the train .
The necro sets camp again but doesn't dare to charm so has his standard pet . I call a Pally friend and on next spawn we largely outdamage the necro as I have a charmed pet that he didn't see and the pally does massive damage . The necro tries one more train but now we are 3 so with an enchanter we derail the train again . He tries to kill the placeholder a third time and is again outdamaged .He doesn't try for a 4th time and gates . This strategy always works again a single toxic player provided that the trains are not too big .
However I fully agree with somebody who said a single moron is easy to deal with , when they are 20 , it is impossible . In this case I'd probably train them or report if a PNP is implemented .
Tralyan said:Hate to be a rabble rouser, but this is a valid point. Shouldn't this be the other way around? The link to the actual poll on Twitter, while the poll itself is located on the forums where people have supported the game with funds? That would go more with the way Pantheon was advertized, as not catering to the loud masses.
Does seem a little backwards.
I kinda get your sentiment, but limiting polls to people that are paying supporters kinda creates a bit of an echo chamber does it not? It'd still be a loud mass, just a different one.
Edit: To contribute to the topic - I'd try to get the kill. If I failed, I'd just write their name/guild down for future reference and move along. I don't see myself ever reporting someone for something like this. I'll be on a PvP server, though, so I wager this own't be much of an issue.
Not a GM issue~
If they ignore my kind, "hey I was camping that", then announce their crimes to my guild and warn the zone... and if they are in a guild, tell their guild leader/officers, and perhaps even post on their guild website
two scenarios:
1. I will legitimately think they may not speak my language and from their point of view, they came in, and are starting to play, regardless of me being really close by. So I will cut them alot of slack because I ASSUME they are foreign and not as sophisticated or have different cultural nuances that are "ok" in their culture, like cuting in line or farting at the dinner table as a guest (we've all heard that one) and are assuming its "ok" in here because "they" are just being "them". I will try non-verbal means of getting attention like waving, jumping up and down, speaking out loud, shouting. if no response I will keep going until the named pops and fight like the dickens. if they engage the named, I will /duel (usually that sends a clear in game notice) and often because they lack sophisticated cultural nuances- they accept right away (its happened!) and so I help the monster. If they stop, I will know the wheels are turning and I will then finish the monster and continue in my own way. if they win. I will chalk it up to "they being them" and move on and I wont forget them and put them as friends so I can see where they are, or do a who-all so I can track where they are so I can avoid them.
2. but....if I see them reply later on like in general chat and reply in a manner that implies they have a similar cultural background as myself that includes all the understanding of unwritten social rules and mores. I must admit to hiding behind my screen and being consumed with looking out for anything they might say or do just in the hopes of catching them being a type of person that does not play nice so I can shadenfreudingly (sp?) vent my righteous indignation and imagine their being cowed by the community. Even if they don't act like it or it really doesn't bother them. and I will bring it up again and again every time I can just to say- this is the kind of person this person is, this is the kind of thing they do, and if they apologize? then I accept but it has to be followed by a really hard group or grind where they lead and make it obvious that they are favorable to me for the loots, which I will politely decline out of fairness. But if they secretly trade me some nice pieces, I will accept. Sad thing is we probably will never group again but at least we have an understanding with them being all uber in their group and me being not in their clique, but being uber in my own clique. Also, I may ask them for help with a really hard thing a year or two later and hope they come to help and it saddens me a little when they say "who are you?" because it makes me realize my ire was for nought. It's just a game! right?
Training someone is the exact opposite way of how this situation should be handled. If it comes down to a GM presence, and you've been fighting fire with fire, it just creates an even bigger mess and undermines your own complaint. Be aggressive within the rules, if they won't communicate or agree to some kind of better solution.
If its within the ruleset then IMO it is not something to report. I think a little healthy competition to see who can nab the mob first when it spawns is the name of the gmae at this point. Perhaps there will be ques to when a certain type of mob is going to spawn. Watch and play.
Tralyan said:Create a forum separate from the official VR forums, assuming one isn't build already. Add "Rant and Flames", then name and shame that character as well as his guild.
Obvi.
Assuming reporting it doesn't help.
Love this answer... because it will defintely happen once server names come out lol.
I will typically...in this order... try and talk to them.
Try to reach an officer in their guild.
Reach out to friends to secure my victory.
Also the reason that people post polls on twitter is to try and garner more followers. Despite your lack of interest in social media. We should all be willing to support the game and devs in any way possible. And if following them on Twitter helps! Let's just do it lol.
That being said I only have twitter for this reason. And it has never been an issue.
Nevron said:Tralyan said:Hate to be a rabble rouser, but this is a valid point. Shouldn't this be the other way around? The link to the actual poll on Twitter, while the poll itself is located on the forums where people have supported the game with funds? That would go more with the way Pantheon was advertized, as not catering to the loud masses.
Does seem a little backwards.
I kinda get your sentiment, but limiting polls to people that are paying supporters kinda creates a bit of an echo chamber does it not? It'd still be a loud mass, just a different one.
That's fair, yet wouldn't the loud mass of paying supporters that could potentially alter the game be preferrable to the loud mass of those not supporting potentially altering the game? These are honest questions. Not looking to stir things up.
I mean, I'm just a supporter. Didn't pledge any large sums - rather, i've been pledging just enough to have the privilege of posting on these forums each month since march 2016. So, I'm not saying this as one of those fellas that's shelled out a large sum of cash to VR. But I am saying it as someone who did still make the choice to support it with the understanding that it would be a niche game that didn't cater to the majority.
The argument of course being that, support of Pantheon isn't paying for a product as much as it is making an investment. However, not only was that investment made with specific understanding of what we were investing in, it ALSO gave access to the "developer forums". It makes sense to me, then, that polls would be based in those forums - not the other way around.
And if the idea is to get MORE support, I'd think that one way to convince others to throw in their financial support would be to say, "Hey, you want the privilege of voting on things that might change the game? Then support it."
Instead, they're saying, "Hey, I know you guys are helping to financially support this game, but we're going to put polls out to those who aren't".
Just saying that I understand where the criticism against that may be coming from.
I am really curious. For all the people saying report report ect. Why is it you want an open world game? The obvious solution to this question is to have instancing. So if you are one of the people saying report, why do you want the game to be open world. Open world games are the wild west. If a group comes and is better than you and wins the DPS race maybe you should move on or keep trying to out DPS the other group. It kind of bothers me that from everyone shouting "I WANT OPEN WORLD #IMMERSION #COMMUNITY" but then when open world things happen you are the first to say #REPORT.
So new scenario: gold farmers have a camp perma farmed, your group comes and out dps's them and takes the camp. Do you think they should have the right to report you for out dpsing them and taking the camp? If you want it one way it has to go both ways. How would you feel when the perma camped spawn a gold farmer has on lock down reports you and you get banned. (you can't prove its a gold farmer so VR doesn't ban them)
I want open world because it promotes real competition... this includes someone trying to take your camp and you hold them off because your group is better, and if you can't compete you find a new camp. If not there is no point we might as well just do another instanced game so we can all have the best stuff without trying and without having other people try and get it before us.
Tralyan said:
That's fair, yet wouldn't the loud mass of paying supporters that could potentially alter the game be preferrable to the loud mass of those not supporting potentially altering the game? These are honest questions. Not looking to stir things up.
I mean, I'm just a supporter. Didn't pledge any large sums - rather, i've been pledging just enough to have the privilege of posting on these forums each month since march 2016. So, I'm not saying this as one of those fellas that's shelled out a large sum of cash to VR. But I am saying it as someone who did still make the choice to support it with the understanding that it would be a niche game that didn't cater to the majority.
The argument of course being that, support of Pantheon isn't paying for a product as much as it is making an investment. However, not only was that investment made with specific understanding of what we were investing in, it ALSO gave access to the "developer forums". It makes sense to me, then, that polls would be based in those forums - not the other way around.
And if the idea is to get MORE support, I'd think that one way to convince others to throw in their financial support would be to say, "Hey, you want the privilege of voting on things that might change the game? Then support it."
Instead, they're saying, "Hey, I know you guys are helping to financially support this game, but we're going to put polls out to those who aren't".
Just saying that I understand where the criticism against that may be coming from.
I can't say I'd wholly prefer the opinions of those paying at all, really. That'd be situational. The "paying loud mass" here isn't exactly vocally inclusive of certain playstyle sub-sets, like PvP. Keep in mind that these are mostly people that are likely already following the Pantheon Twitter account.
If people aren't financially supporting the game already, I doubt the ability to vote on a poll will be the grand enticement that draws them in. Besides, I don't think these polls will cause any major direction shifts even if they skew heavily against the popular opinion on the forum.
Kilsin said:Scenario: You're happily camping a named mob after waiting patiently to get the camp from someone else, along comes a random player who just starts competing for the named spawn without saying anything, you kindly ask them to stop and they ignore you - what do you do? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
Twitter Poll: https://twitter.com/PantheonMMO/status/1011201275759738881
I try to educate them. If they still act like a jerk, I will petition them and put them on my personal blacklist for future reference. If they are in a guild, I will attempt to contact their guild leadership and ask them to handle it.
Report them. If they aren't breaking any rules and VR doesn't act on such things on a PvE server and "camps" are a FFA/Survival of the fittest/PvP game then I would recognize I am playing the wrong game and probably find something else to play...after I get banned for training them.
I have no interest in "competition" 95% of the time (especially on a PvE server) as in an MMO it is almost always a one sided engagement where the more hardcore (players with more time, not skill) dominate the more casual players (less time, equal skill). The higher in the game you get the more common it will be to have zero chance at gear and as the game ages twinks will push newer players out of camps too. I'd much rather have the rare/uncommon occasion of a guild/group camping a mob for hours/days/weeks than have every possible camp be open season to being trampled by better geared or higher level players/groups/guilds.
Not to mention encouraging DPS races and fighting over spawns almost completely eliminates the challenge of the game, no longer a game of challenging PvE but a game of PvP.
disposalist said:Queue jumping is rude. Ignoring you is rude. The poll doesn't really cover all the options to respond to that, but for those not on Twitter the poll options (and current vote percentages) are: -
45% Train them27% Report them06% Log off22% Find something else to doWhether they get reported or not surely depends upon if there is a Play Nice Policy. If there isn't it's pointless reporting them, because it's not considered something the GMs would be interested in.
If there is a decent PNP then it will cover incidents like the above. If it's outside the PNP, players should report it, otherwise they should compete as the PNP allows.
I find it depressing most would train them. Piling rudeness on rudeness is a recipe for escalation into a toxicity. It's understandable, I suppose, but passive-Aggressive 'PvP' on a PvE server is a bit of a sad thing to become a legit 'solution' to undesirable behaviour.
Personally, I would report them (if it's against PNP) and compete against them and, if that failed, I'd move on, but it would leave a sour taste to be rudely muscled off a camp.
I would hope that if a multitude of reports build up against someone then action would eventually be taken.
I like open world because it gives opportunities to play alongside and help others, not so I can push people off content they are enjoying. I don't need to stop someone else playing in order to enjoy the game.
There have already been multiple threads about this kind of issue, so I don't want to start another innevitable argument. We all know some enjoy contention and even conflict and some don't.
I will simply cross my fingers that VR plan to use their experience to make plans to avoid toxicity.
I get to include 4 options with a Twitter poll man, there was at least 2-3 answer I would have liked to include but couldn't so this is just a "what if" scenario with limited options to see what people would choose.