dorotea said:I think the argument that having more character slots ruins socialization has some merit - but not enough to outwiegh the arguments in favor of letting us have a reasonable number of characters to play around with.
I think that having some instances does not in the slightest destroy socialization - having a large portion of the game instanced most certainly does.
I think that the two things have nothing to do with eachother and we should go back to the topic of the thread - character slots.
But heed Kilsin - we can disagree but avoid being disagreeable lest the thread die the final death.
I agree with you Dorotea which why i brought a compromise of having 8 characters or how ever many people wan tto experience the game they want to play but have a limit on the amount of tradeskills they can have on a server pre account so they cant be self efficent and not have to communicate with others to get anything done, and it seems like a reasonable compromise since they can play with as many charcters that they want which is what most people are wanting in this forum that are arguing about wanting limited character slots, so in my compromise they are getting just that.
Riahuf22 said:dorotea said:I think the argument that having more character slots ruins socialization has some merit - but not enough to outwiegh the arguments in favor of letting us have a reasonable number of characters to play around with.
I think that having some instances does not in the slightest destroy socialization - having a large portion of the game instanced most certainly does.
I think that the two things have nothing to do with eachother and we should go back to the topic of the thread - character slots.
But heed Kilsin - we can disagree but avoid being disagreeable lest the thread die the final death.
I agree with you Dorotea which why i brought a compromise of having 8 characters or how ever many people wan tto experience the game they want to play but have a limit on the amount of tradeskills they can have on a server pre account so they cant be self efficent and not have to communicate with others to get anything done, and it seems like a reasonable compromise since they can play with as many charcters that they want which is what most people are wanting in this forum that are arguing about wanting limited character slots, so in my compromise they are getting just that.
lol 8 is what the people you've been arguing with have suggested already.
Obviously grinding out all the trade skills is going to be a big undertaking. Not having a limit of few character slot isn't magically going to make everyone poopsock crafting. Let people try out the different classes if they want, I assume that is what any player of MMORPGs would expect coming into a game like this.
Keno Monster said:Riahuf22 said:dorotea said:I think the argument that having more character slots ruins socialization has some merit - but not enough to outwiegh the arguments in favor of letting us have a reasonable number of characters to play around with.
I think that having some instances does not in the slightest destroy socialization - having a large portion of the game instanced most certainly does.
I think that the two things have nothing to do with eachother and we should go back to the topic of the thread - character slots.
But heed Kilsin - we can disagree but avoid being disagreeable lest the thread die the final death.
I agree with you Dorotea which why i brought a compromise of having 8 characters or how ever many people wan tto experience the game they want to play but have a limit on the amount of tradeskills they can have on a server pre account so they cant be self efficent and not have to communicate with others to get anything done, and it seems like a reasonable compromise since they can play with as many charcters that they want which is what most people are wanting in this forum that are arguing about wanting limited character slots, so in my compromise they are getting just that.
lol 8 is what the people you've been arguing with have suggested already.
Ths is Obvious Keno, which is why i said it was a compromise, but with limited tradeskill pre server which also makes me happy, therefore both worlds can be moderately happy, which is the word compromise means
Spluffen said:Obviously grinding out all the trade skills is going to be a big undertaking. Not having a limit of few character slot isn't magically going to make everyone poopsock crafting. Let people try out the different classes if they want, I assume that is what any player of MMORPGs would expect coming into a game like this.
This isn't EQ, but as an example,I did the coldain prayer shawl quest on my shaman and that was 100 hours+ of gathering and crafting and probaby 60k plat and that took like 4 tradeskills to 75% or so to do the quest.
If crafting is sufficiently fleshed out, as in can be the main part of a player's game if they wish it, I feel like we might not have to worry about people spamming alts for self-sufficiency in professions. But you know, there could be a big difference between 'self sufficient' (as in being able to make some health potions for yourself or friends or your guild or alts) and being a 'master' craftsman with recipes that took a lot of time to collect that also might be very rare and difficult to produce items from. It's quite difficult to predict how lots of character slots could impact the economy when we know so little about how crafting sizes up compared to regular adventuring.
Rokuzachi said:If crafting is sufficiently fleshed out, as in can be the main part of a player's game if they wish it, I feel like we might not have to worry about people spamming alts for self-sufficiency in professions. But you know, there could be a big difference between 'self sufficient' (as in being able to make some health potions for yourself or friends or your guild or alts) and being a 'master' craftsman with recipes that took a lot of time to collect that also might be very rare and difficult to produce items from. It's quite difficult to predict how lots of character slots could impact the economy when we know so little about how crafting sizes up compared to regular adventuring.
I'm not talking about stopping someone from being the best "alchemy" preson in the world, im saying i dont want someone to be a master of woodworking, blacksmithing, tailorer, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. that way when they want to make something it wont be a simply let me switch to this alt and make that and than this one to make this, granted for some gear, items it could be this way at times, but for the most part it would stop the efficency of it happening. Think of an item or peice of gear you could make with Tailoring, but that specific peice took 7 different tradeskills to complete the combine, wouldn't it be great to look inot your fellow traders, guildmates, some random crafter, and have him offer you his services and be part of the world, OR would you rather be the guy who has Tailoring and all the 7 other crafters tomake that item, and put yourself seperate from the world and talk to no one?
I asked myself, a simple question so i thought? how many character slots will we get at the start of the game. Besides a few people with the pledge reward, I was on sabbatical from the game, I mean building of the game, so I’m trying to catch up to speed anyone know?
Without starting an argument, cut and dry how many characters that’s all. thanks so much )
A Reading from the Book of Armaments:"Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three."
Radical, but assuming that there are multiple servers, you can play many characters. This is small enough that one is far from self-sufficient, and you can still have one character per "continent" on any server.
It also encourages you to get to know more people.
That profession dependency is really becoming a clincher for me. And I'm really surprised by that. I've always been and alt-o-holic. Also, being realistic with myself in regards to having many alts, I can't say that I've ever put in equitable gameplay time with all of my alts when compared to time played with my main. Most of my alts don't get played very much TBH. /le sigh
Progeny has not been discussed much by the Devs for quite sometime. So naturally, I'm curious, and uncertain, how that might affect my alt-o-holic playstyle. It very well might change my perception of having a house full of dolls that sit there wishing they could all be Dragonslayers...
They mostly gather pixel dust.
However, if we are limited, I think it's important to have some space to explore classes, races and figure things out. But also to have a bit of flexibiltiy with the Profession mechanic and perhaps a bank Alt.
Most importantly, at least at this moment, I really feel that this decision needs to be scrutinized so that players have to make some sacrifice in order to make the best, or most meaningful choice, for them. And that fits with VRs idea of making critical choices.
So, uhm, I'd be keen with 3 to start with perhaps an extra slot per expansion (in some manner).
As someone who loves alts I would be pretty disappointed if it was only 3 per server. I would happily pay money for more slots
Adrenicus said:As someone who loves alts I would be pretty disappointed if it was only 3 per server. I would happily pay money for more slots
I agree. I REALLY want to play at last 1 each of the 4 roles and I'm strongly attracted to 3 DPS classes already. While I could sub my 2nd account - which admittedly makes more money for VR - I'd much rather just pay a fee to have extra slots on just one account.
If the issue really is the amount of data storage, I'll willingly give up access to making characters on other servers, in order to have more on one.
Adrenicus said:As someone who loves alts I would be pretty disappointed if it was only 3 per server. I would happily pay money for more slots
It is a radical suggestion.
However, with multiple servers, you can have multiple characters, just not all on the same server.
With three characters per server, a single Main cannot equip all your alts, nor could a single Guild.
Nor could your alts feed each other all the necessary gathering and crafted goods.
You'd have to establish relationships on each server.
Balanz said:It is a radical suggestion.
However, with multiple servers, you can have multiple characters, just not all on the same server.
With three characters per server, a single Main cannot equip all your alts, nor could a single Guild.
Nor could your alts feed each other all the necessary gathering and crafted goods.
You'd have to establish relationships on each server.
I like alts as much as anyone, but that would be very offputting. I'd just end up not dealing with more than 3 even if I wanted to try more.
Balanz said:Adrenicus said:As someone who loves alts I would be pretty disappointed if it was only 3 per server. I would happily pay money for more slots
It is a radical suggestion.
However, with multiple servers, you can have multiple characters, just not all on the same server.
With three characters per server, a single Main cannot equip all your alts, nor could a single Guild.
Nor could your alts feed each other all the necessary gathering and crafted goods.
You'd have to establish relationships on each server.
I get where you are coming from but I wouldn't want to be a member of more than one guild and the negatives outweigh the positives in my opinion. I'm purely a casual/social player and I will admit to having not put too much thought into the negatives of allowing lots of alts on a single server. I do think 3 is quite severly punishing however and would put some people off playing
I seriously doubt that this the character limit will be announced before we have a publisher and an official business model, since they may need to make it restrictive in order to monetize it. This isn't preferred, but has to be left open unless we find a publisher willing to go purely subscription based.
Personally, I love creating alts. Even if I don't play some much, I frequently get new ideas for characters that I want to try. This is a creative outlet for me and helps sustain my interest in a game. I would want 8 as a bare minimum. I also hope that each 'additional character slot' pledge bonus is cumulative per package tier and not one slot total for all.
With a high level of probability we will not know until close to release. Many other decisions can affect this one - such as naming rules, number of servers, number of normal ruleset servers and the like.
This is not a core decision affecting dramatically how the game will play. Not in the same sense as speed of leveling, size of the world and death penalty among others. As Counterfleche says it is partly a business model decision. One where VR might well agree to do what a publisher wants even if they do not entirely agree. Without feeling that they are selling the game down the river.
As a dedicated altoholic I tend to agree with the arguments for allowing quite a few character slots - even if we have to pay for them. But Balanz makes reasonable arguments and makes them well. Just not well *enough* to persuade me. As with Iksar I find that being on multiple servers and in multiple guilds is suboptimal.
Counterfleche said: I seriously doubt that this the character limit will be announced before we have a publisher and an official business model, since they may need to make it restrictive in order to monetize it.
dorotea said: With a high level of probability we will not know until close to release. Many other decisions can affect this one - such as naming rules, number of servers, number of normal ruleset servers and the like.
I do not see how the number of characters per server an account has is a significant business decision unless the total number of characters per account is equally a business decision. Data storage is data storage. Yet most in this discussion seem to be assuming that however many we can have on one server will be allowed to us on many if not all servers.
IF the issue is a finite limit of data storage, then I'd much rather have a clearly stated number of total slots over all servers, and get to chose whether I have a few on many servers or many on a few servers - which would be my personal choice.
Jothany said:I do not see how the number of characters per server an account has is a significant business decision unless the total number of characters per account is equally a business decision. Data storage is data storage. Yet most in this discussion seem to be assuming that however many we can have on one server will be allowed to us on many if not all servers.
IF the issue is a finite limit of data storage, then I'd much rather have a clearly stated number of total slots over all servers, and get to chose whether I have a few on many servers or many on a few servers - which would be my personal choice.
My comment wasn't meant to be specific to max number per server or in total, but rather a comment on how artificially low limits are part of the business model of micro transaction games. Games can't sell additional slots if you already have plenty. VR has said they don't want this business model but haven't ruled it out if it's the best they can get.
The issue isn't data storage but a need to create an artificial limit / problem then sell the fix for it. Like having a small inventory and selling additional storage. This is a decision that will be made by the game publisher, not by VR.
Feyshtey said:Adrenicus said: As someone who loves alts I would be pretty disappointed if it was only 3 per server. I would happily pay money for more slotsThis way leads to cash shops. Cash shops bad. No soup for you.
The company selling items that benefit characters ingame may lead to cash shops.
The company offering some account related, customer services - like for instance name or server changes - has been the norm in all the games I can remember. It didn't lead to cash shops.
Over-simplification leads to bad decisions, which leads to cash shops. No soup for you :)
Counterfleche said:My comment wasn't meant to be specific to max number per server or in total, but rather a comment on how artificially low limits are part of the business model of micro transaction games. Games can't sell additional slots if you already have plenty. VR has said they don't want this business model but haven't ruled it out if it's the best they can get.
The issue isn't data storage but a need to create an artificial limit / problem then sell the fix for it. Like having a small inventory and selling additional storage. This is a decision that will be made by the game publisher, not by VR.
Thanks for the clarification, I can see your reasoning now.
I see a difference between selling ingame swag and providing paid customer services, as I referenced in my above post.
I disagree with your expectation that such a decision "will be made by the game publisher". There have been opportunities already for VR to give up control of Pantheon to a deep-pocketed publisher in return for money. Since they haven't done so in the past, I don't see any evidence to expect it in the future.
Sure, I could be wrong. I make a mistake or two every year, regular as clockwork. This could be one :D