CanadinaXegony said:it doesn't limit socialization...not one bit. My friends know my alts...because I tell them. And I like to think I am community minded....moving to another server doesn't promote that at all...
It limits socialization the same way instanced raids limit socialization. If players have 1 of every crafter, they dont need to reach out to other players. Therefore eliminating the socialization aspect.
The funny thing, is a lot of the people arguing for more character slots (limiting socialization) are the same that argue against instanced raids (because it ruins socialization). Pick and choose I guess...
I think its funny that as soon as someone begins to vehemently argue their point of view people feel the need to call them trolls. Just because someone disagrees with you. Does not make them a troll.
You don't need to have multiple characters across different levels in pantheon because of the mentoring system.
You shouldn't need to play 8 character to be excited in the game because pantheon is supposed to have rich content from start to finish.
However, you should have to make a difficult choice of what tradeskill you choose. This should impact you.
I'm not going to comment on the RP need to play 8 different characters because I dont roleplay... but I cant imagine it being that hard to find a way around that if you REALLY needed yo play a 5th or 6th...
If you disagree. That's fine. Most of not all games allow you a plethora of character slots. Please dont act like us debating this. And lobbying for less is going to cause VR to change their plans. It's a discussion, they've likely already made their decision... just relax.
Porygon said:CanadinaXegony said:it doesn't limit socialization...not one bit. My friends know my alts...because I tell them. And I like to think I am community minded....moving to another server doesn't promote that at all...
It limits socialization the same way instanced raids limit socialization. If players have 1 of every crafter, they dont need to reach out to other players. Therefore eliminating the socialization aspect.
The funny thing, is a lot of the people arguing for more character slots (limiting socialization) are the same that argue against instanced raids (because it ruins socialization). Pick and choose I guess...
That is an absolutely enormous stretch.
The only reason why i see people saying that want 8 or more characters is becuase they want to be every race and every class which goes against the fact of making your choices matter, if you want your choice to matter than it needs to start from the beginning of the game not at the end of it. and with 8 than the choies you make at the beginning dont matter anymore you can literally do everything you want, which goes against a game design and function the devs have said from the beginning. also with 8 chars you almost do every tradeskill, which mean yet again your choices dont matter. and can grind different factions that conflict with others and have no impact if you have 8 charcters which means that choices doesnt matter. i can keep going on and on about how having 8 characters is a bad thing, and even though we are used to it doesn't mean it is correct plus with the free character slot for pledging means you get 8 instead of 7? meaning you can be every clas but 1? hmm doesn't matter.
I do not directly have an opinion of the number of characters, but there are aspects of the (still being developed) game that may have an impact on how many characters might be rational.
As they do plan (after a hopefully successful release) to add housing, and at some point I assume, guild housing. Having many alts might have a bearing on that aspect.
We have not seen any details on harvesting, crafting as of yet. Having many alts may impact that as well. People have generally in the past used alts as mules, or simply as additional storage. Defeating that is a main goal I would assume. I know in Vanguard even with three accounts I still had to have many alts just to store all the cool stuff I had. Much being harvested resources and crafting materials.
People have used alts in the past to exploit and cheat with dupping and other mechanics. But hopefully that is not a factor that would affect the decision. No one wants to lose functionalty simple because programmers could not figure out a better way.
Frankly I am at the point where one account = 1 character is fine by me. if only to give them some mechanic to generate more revenue outside of P2W.
Let keep the discussion constructive and avoid any conflicts with personal opinions please folks. It is ok to disagree with someone but arguing for pages over personal opinions and things that you have no control over is not helpful. When we have more solid information to release on this topic we will let you all know but until then, please be respectful to each other.
Kilsin said:Let keep the discussion constructive and avoid any conflicts with personal opinions please folks. It is ok to disagree with someone but arguing for pages over personal opinions and things that you have no control over is not helpful. When we have more solid information to release on this topic we will let you all know but until then, please be respectful to each other.
I blame you for asking these FIERY questions ;)
Porygon said:The funny thing, is a lot of the people arguing for more character slots (limiting socialization) are the same that argue against instanced raids (because it ruins socialization). Pick and choose I guess...
I'm afraid I'm a bit lost on how instanced raids limit socialization. That's quite possibly the most social activity I could engage in while playing my chosen MMOs. Not only am I playing with 19 other people, the prep for a raid necessitates interaction with other players through crafted consumables. Plus if it's a PUG or a static needing to fill some empty slots, there's the constant possibility of meeting new folk. And being able to have more alts means people can engage in more raid groups if they wish.
Porygon said:You shouldn't need to play 8 character to be excited in the game because pantheon is supposed to have rich content from start to finish.
Doesn't change the fact that playing different race/class combos (or even just different character appearances) is a fresh experience. Just because YOU don't want to play many characters doesn't mean it isn't a perfectly legitimate way to enjoy an MMO, and the richness of leveling content has absolutely zero bearing on that. Rich leveling content actually encourages me to make MORE alts so that I can have MORE fun. Fun! In a game. Who'da thunk.
I have mentioned also about being able to make many character but have a cap of 3 tradeskills per server, but of course no one agree or disagreed to that, and also mentioned that if you can get 8 characters and them each having a tradeskill how that is a bad thing, but of course you guys knew i was right becuase no one fought me on that either, other than being naive. it seems like everything i have proven myself right you simply ignore the post completely and keep sayig the same thing over and over again. so we keep saying the same thing over and over again, but i guess we will just have to see what the devs are going to do and when they decide then i guess we can debate about that, switch for me it doesn't really matter they can say 8 characters and i'd be lucky to make even 3.
Riahuf22 said:I have mentioned also about being able to make many character but have a cap of 3 tradeskills per server, but of course no one agree or disagreed to that
Yeah, I mentioned it as well. Seems a reasonable compromise to quell those paranoid about crafting.
I also expect leveling crafting professions is not going to be an easy task. I get the feeling if someone wanted to put the time in to master them all on various characters, well... they'd deserve that privilege.
I also suggested having multiple specializations within crafting professions, to make it much harder to to cover all bases.
Naunet said:Porygon said:The funny thing, is a lot of the people arguing for more character slots (limiting socialization) are the same that argue against instanced raids (because it ruins socialization). Pick and choose I guess...I'm afraid I'm a bit lost on how instanced raids limit socialization. That's quite possibly the most social activity I could engage in while playing my chosen MMOs. Not only am I playing with 19 other people, the prep for a raid necessitates interaction with other players through crafted consumables. Plus if it's a PUG or a static needing to fill some empty slots, there's the constant possibility of meeting new folk. And being able to have more alts means people can engage in more raid groups if they wish.
Haha, we are some of the very few people that feel this way. Theres a thread somewhere on here from a month or so ago where people argue to great lengths that instanced raiding ruins socialization. I dont get it either.
As far as character slots I've said my part, VR has already made their decision I'm guessing and this discussion isnt going anywhere lol.
Porygon said:Haha, we are some of the very few people that feel this way. Theres a thread somewhere on here from a month or so ago where people argue to great lengths that instanced raiding ruins socialization. I dont get it either.
Oh goodness. xD
I'll admit, the community on this forum is a bit baffling to me at times. In so many ways, it's not reflective of the many people I've interacted with (and the friends I've made) in other MMOs. I suppose it's because I never played EQ, so many things that people make assumptions about seem really out of left field to me.
Naunet said:(Though I'll point out that, after some research, it seems even Everquest has a large number of character slots - up to 14. So arguing that I simply don't understand because I haven't played EQ is a bit silly.)
It wasn't about EQ, this was about their own experience others have from playing MMO's that you downplay and act like they're unimportant to your own.
Madae said:It wasn't about EQ, this was about their own experience others have from playing MMO's that you downplay and act like they're unimportant to your own.
Look, dude, you're responding to a comment made specifically to Porygon in relation to a brief tangent about instanced raids and trying to pretend that it's me being dismissive about your passion for very few character slots. It's not.
Accept the fact that people disagree with you and that our disagreement with you is not some personal judgment on your character, nor is it due to us just refusing to acknowledge arguments that you believe to be carefully thought out.
The only attitude I have is one of defending my personal preferences in the face of someone acting like their word is The One True Design Philosophy. You made the claim that your position is the "right" one. I disagree completely because this is all just personal preference. Everyone's favored opinion is going to be the "right" one to them.
[edit] We've all stated our OPINIONS repeatedly, so I'm going to bow out of this back and forth.
Naunet said:The only attitude I have is one of defending my personal preferences in the face of someone acting like their word is The One True Design Philosophy. You made the claim that your position is the "right" one. I disagree completely because this is all just personal preference. Everyone's favored opinion is going to be the "right" one to them.
While I have not agreed with much of what Naunet has said. Or feel I would ever understand why this person feels the way they do (as we seem to be diametrically opposite each other) I have never thought they've had an attitude on the forums.
I think you (madae) just need to take a step away from this particular conversation as it definitely has you pretty hyped up. I've had to do this myself. I tend to be the person that gets accused of trolling or being a jerk because I will argue my viewpoints until I die and there very little that will change my mind unless someone provides a very compelling arguement (and obviously I have to be the one judging how compelling it is). Sometimes we all need a break.
I will agree with one thing though. As a LONGTIME eq player. As well as nearly every mmo after that. Even I am baffled at times with the ideas and mechanics that alot of people on these forums seems to want included (or excluded) from this game.
Naunet said:The only attitude I have is one of defending my personal preferences in the face of someone acting like their word is The One True Design Philosophy. You made the claim that your position is the "right" one. I disagree completely because this is all just personal preference. Everyone's favored opinion is going to be the "right" one to them.
I'm not hand-waiving every argument in favor of my own personal enjoyment, nor did I ever state my opinion was the "right" one.
Porygon said:it definitely has you pretty hyped up.
Not really.
Madae said:Not really.
I mean, over half of your total posts on these forums are in this one thread... so clearly you are invested in it. But if you say you're not. I'm sure that's the case.
All I recommended was to back off a little. Everyone's opinions have clearly been stated and noones mind is changing. I just dont wanna see this thread removed for something dumb.
Riahuf22 said:Keno Monster said:Madae said:Keno Monster said:I think you are making a up a problem.
Well I think you're just making excuses, how about that? You want your 20 characters on one server. That is a want, not a need. You can make your 20 anywhere.
Keno Monster said:I think you are grossly exaggerating.
You're just trolling now. You just had a legitimate fix for your "problem" delivered right to you and somehow that still isn't enough.
People are now making up numbers to support this mythical claim that tons of people are going to hurt the economy and social aspect of the game by spending hundreds of hours raising trade skills to max levels across a bunch of different characters. There are no facts to support the claim. I think you are making up a problem where one does not exist.
Than you my friend are in denial, when the new tlp servers in eq1 pop up do you have any idea how many people rush tradeskilling to make plat and get Kronos! a lot of them and if i still had the photo someone sent me on discord they had over 500 kronos within the first month of lockjaw! 500x $17.99(assuming it was from website and bought one at a time) is well im not going to do the math but it a crap load of money! and that was only in one tradeskill of jewerly and the guilds funding her/him so she would past out fast so they could get a huge piece of that pie and they did simple as that, i havent even talked about BS, and the other ways of making money, that was just with 1 tradeskill, so to think in the long run having to get a ton of tradeskills isnt going to effect the economy is simply dead wrong.
What an awful example. Why are you bringing real life money from a TLP server into this when it will not be a thing in this game? If that's your defense of the argument, then you don't have one.
urgatorbait said:I'm sorry if my reply comes across a bit surly, that's not my usual style but this topic, for some reason, is really poking a nerve with me.
Look, the main argument against a reasonable number of character slots seems to be centered around an impact to the economy. Seriously, I think people are blowing this way out of proportion and then others are merely jumping on the band wagon to sound cool or appear like they are somehow hardcore. Boiled down, even if there are enough charactrer slots for one to be totally self-sufficient in crafting, it's not going to impact the economy in any appreciable way. The amount of time and effort needed to level a large number of tradeskills to high level, combined with the fact that a very small number of players will actually be willing to make that sort of inventment, makes that argument agains a larger number of slots, moot.
Further, the thought that VR would expect their paying customers to choose one or two classes to level and if they wanted to change to anopther have to delete all that progress and start over is honestly rifdiculous. Especially in the early days of the game, when there are likely to be class imbalances that will later be worked out, I would be ticked if I wanted to play a Rogue really bad at launch, got him to level 30 or so only to realize he was undertuned in DPS or had some other issue and they had not fixed. I decide to move on so I can actually be desired in a group, delete that toon, and then two months later VR fixes the Rogue class issues. How annoyed do you think players like that will be?
Worth repeating.
And with the way VR is designing classes, MANY, if not all, seem like fun to play. I'm thinking now I'd like to experience playing as a Druid, Paladin, DL, Shaman, and most certainly Summoner, Wizard, Necro, and Bard. These classes look more compelling than classes of the past.
My choices need to mean something? How about choosing which hours of precious time to put into which character? This should not mean, however, I should be OK with being unable to play as another class without either deleting my valuable work or paying more. Eh, maybe the paying more could be justified if VR needed it. But it'd be obnoxious.
And if we're soo concerned about tradeskill monopolization, VR can limit the number of tradeskills per account. Each account can only practice four different tradeskills, or something.
I think the argument that having more character slots ruins socialization has some merit - but not enough to outwiegh the arguments in favor of letting us have a reasonable number of characters to play around with.
I think that having some instances does not in the slightest destroy socialization - having a large portion of the game instanced most certainly does.
I think that the two things have nothing to do with eachother and we should go back to the topic of the thread - character slots.
But heed Kilsin - we can disagree but avoid being disagreeable lest the thread die the final death.
dorotea said:a reasonable number of characters to play around with.
Well that's where the disagreement comes in; what is reasonable? Some favor more, some favor less. Ultimately, the choice is not ours, so rather than debating the validity of what someone else says, perhaps this conversation should just be steered towards saying a number and leaving it at that.
Better yet, there should just be a poll. 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12. That would at least give VR something to look at.
I would be happy if the Devs allowed up to 4 base character slots per server for the FTP introduction mode. For paid subscribers I would prefer 6 base slots (not inclusive of the extra character slots awards based on pledge tier). This would allow me to try at least one of each class 'archtype' with minor room for future classes/race experimentation. Additionally this would also allow for the player to develop a potential second class in their preferred play style.
Ideally they would also allow this character amount up to a 2 to 3 server limit so as to allow PvE, PvP, and one other additional rule set server type (not including a Test server which we would be able to provide feedback after play testing whatever tweaking changes will undoubtedly happen).
My 2cp tossed into the proverbial well.