Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

A Cash Shop is Being Considered

    • 714 posts
    April 10, 2021 4:35 PM PDT

    OMG I want a bow that can shoot rainbow unicorns with an accompanying neigh sound so bad. Ya'll can turn off your ability to see it if you want, just deal with the fact that my unicorns are awesome.

    • 197 posts
    April 10, 2021 4:55 PM PDT

    If thats the case I want full nudity as well, just make a toggle as Beaver said. (sarcasm is fun)

    • 714 posts
    April 10, 2021 5:33 PM PDT

    Gintoki88 said:

    If thats the case I want full nudity as well, just make a toggle as Beaver said. (sarcasm is fun)

    No need for VR to make it. If Pantheon ends up as anything at all someone will make a nudity mod for it.

    Besides I'm only half sarcastic here. If there was a unicorn bow, I'd have to use it, at least once. It's just one of those things you do in life.


    This post was edited by BeaverBiscuit at April 10, 2021 5:37 PM PDT
    • 714 posts
    April 10, 2021 5:36 PM PDT

    oops


    This post was edited by BeaverBiscuit at April 10, 2021 5:37 PM PDT
    • 5 posts
    April 10, 2021 6:55 PM PDT

    The unicorn bow is from a long drawn out crafted legendary weapon quest, not a cash shop item.  It is called The Dreamer and apparently takes months to make...probably akin to EQ epics, just flashier and more time consuming.  It just proves that GW2 doesn't just give you drab armor and make you spend money to have interesting items.  They have stuff you can buy in the store and then there are many things earned in game that are crazy and unique so you have a choice.   You can still earn the prestige you are looking for if that is how you find value in the game.  You can also buy a trasmog item off their cash shop to replace your weapon skin as well if you didn't like the look of your shiny pony bow that does awesome damage. (side note, the actual skin of the bow is cute, I'd use it!  The neighing ponies seem a bit excessive though lol)

    Also, with a sub game its more supplemental income rather than the main focus.  GW2 has to keep it fresh and new because that is their income model just like fortnite.  They have to keep pumping out those skins to make their money.   Obviously I don't know how it would be, but my assumption here was where they add something new 1 or 2 times a year.  Probably more akin to how WoW does it.  They currently have 17 pets on their shop.  A lot of them were added quite some time ago with a random major content patch or their charity pets.  Now they have over 1000 unique pets in game.  You don't need those store pets, but some of them are super cute so you get them anyways....or you don't because you can't afford it or refuse to out of principle.  They keep them around for so long you could save a dollar a month and get them in a year if you wanted to.  

    Realistically it will probably be fine either way. If they do a cash shop, I'm sure VR would do it tastefully and carefully as they are well aware that it is a touchy subject. If I had to choose between no cash shop and VR basically treading water vs *cosmetic cash shop and they are about to pump out more content/events/etc because they got to hire more people, I would pick the cash *cosmetic shop any day.  (again, no tokens or whatever, just cosmetics)


    This post was edited by Nexira at April 10, 2021 6:58 PM PDT
    • 27 posts
    April 11, 2021 8:40 PM PDT

    AbsoluteTerror said:

    Can't believe this is still open and not lock yet. 

    Open debate about real topics, like financing an MMO, are not only super informative, but entertaining. I'd love to be proven wrong about my viewpoint, but I still don't see an issue with cosmetic shops.

    philo said:

    Brad said:

    "The revenue model needs to match the game.  If you've designed a game - let's say it's a mobile game - you need to bring people in, you need to expose it to as many people as possible because only a certain percentage are going to monetise, then I agree, it becomes about getting as many people playing as possible because you know some will spend more money.

    But if you're making a game that is meant to be played for a longer period of time, then I think you should have a target audience and you should spend the time making the best game for them because you want to keep them around. Every player is important - not just the 3% or 5% that monetise. And especially if you're using the sub model, keeping them around and keeping them happy and making it more than a game and more of a home, that's what's important."

    I enjoyed that quote. I didn't think of it from that perspective.

    • 9 posts
    April 19, 2021 6:53 PM PDT

    Aanwenae said: As a whole, I'd prefer NO cash shop at all. However, if one is implemented for whatever reason, it is my hope that it would be limited to cosmetic/fluff items only. And those same items are also obtainable through game play. And let's keep those items true to the nature of the game world.

     

    I agree, but instead of cosmetic items which can devalue the coolness of real gear earned I think I'd prefer things like emotes and idle effects.

    • 10 posts
    April 22, 2021 7:44 PM PDT

    I hope they can do both for different customers.  Personally, I'd rather pay a $50+ monthly sub for a server with no cash shop that I'd continually play for many years.  Other server type can be a more f2p cash shop option for that type of customer that prefers that monetization.  Some people like to play for 3-6 months then leave temporarily or permanently. 

    • 368 posts
    April 23, 2021 10:17 AM PDT

    So I'm pretty much against a cash shop in this game, but not in general. I think it fits some games and not others and I don't believe you can have that classic feel of a MMO with a cash shop. That being said IF I had to have one this is what I'd prefer.

     

    Nothing in the cash shop is exclusive to the cash shop. Nothing in the cash shop is from a raid or high level content. Then what's left? Special event items. If Pantheon has a New Years event which rewards items... say 6 months after the event they appear on the cash shop. I will have virtually no issue with this.

    • 52 posts
    April 28, 2021 4:30 AM PDT

    One of the things Brad spoke very clearly about in describing his vision is that when you look at what a player is wearing, you know exactly where and how the player got that armor / clothing. And that it would have a unique appearance different from other armor / clothing. Anything in the area of transmorgs or online shop items which blurs that vision is a very bad thing. If it doesn't, and it doesn't confer in-game benefits, I don't care about the shop.

    • 1169 posts
    April 28, 2021 6:42 AM PDT

    If Pantheon did not include a cash shop it would be a selling feature of this game since almost every other MMO has one now days.

    • 1830 posts
    May 2, 2021 5:07 PM PDT

    I believe Ben was using a hypothetical answer in saying " if there was to be", that's not confirmation that is just saying that if there ever was to be, it would probably be for cosmetic items that have no impact on game play.  I think they were planning on bringing the online store that they had which had tangible items, that would be awesome.  I have been waiting for that


    This post was edited by Kelem at May 2, 2021 5:08 PM PDT
    • 80 posts
    May 2, 2021 5:35 PM PDT

    We definitely need a cash shop for 2 items Only: To Sell game subscriptions and download/dvd/Blu-ray copies of the game license.  Spend the rest of the devs' time on releasing the game please!


    This post was edited by Baerr at May 2, 2021 5:37 PM PDT
    • 1169 posts
    May 15, 2021 9:42 PM PDT

    For people who want to learn more about some philosophy against cash shops, check out KiraTV on YouTube. I think he does a fantastic job explaining why cash shops ruin games. His philosophy is that companies create problems to later sell you the solution, and that you shouldn't have games designed were players want to pay to skip content or pay to get better looking items. It disincentivizes the companies from making good products that people want to play.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRoYayTU-L4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5879kOeT_w


    This post was edited by bigdogchris at May 15, 2021 9:59 PM PDT
    • 5 posts
    May 15, 2021 11:18 PM PDT

    Kelem said:

    I believe Ben was using a hypothetical answer in saying " if there was to be", that's not confirmation that is just saying that if there ever was to be, it would probably be for cosmetic items that have no impact on game play.  I think they were planning on bringing the online store that they had which had tangible items, that would be awesome.  I have been waiting for that

     

    IRL Merch and subscriptions (no trade) would be cool for a shop.

     

    I think we need to keep shiny-glowy things to be unique to in game discoverable and award based items.

    • 714 posts
    May 16, 2021 5:08 PM PDT

    bigdogchris said:

    For people who want to learn more about some philosophy against cash shops, check out KiraTV on YouTube. I think he does a fantastic job explaining why cash shops ruin games. His philosophy is that companies create problems to later sell you the solution, and that you shouldn't have games designed were players want to pay to skip content or pay to get better looking items. It disincentivizes the companies from making good products that people want to play.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRoYayTU-L4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5879kOeT_w

    If they make a bad product that I don't want to play, then I won't play. I assume others feel the same. Is that enough incentive for you?

    I completely agree that cash shops shouldn't make you stronger or more efficient, just like you shouldn't be able to multibox for the same effect.

    Better looking stuff that can be optionally be toggled out of sight, out of mind? I'm sorry, but I don't think better looking stuff, which is especially valuable because streamers tend to buy ALL of it, will hurt Pantheon. If the developers really decide to not make anything that isn't from the cash shop look good, they can enjoy losing many, many subs.

    • 367 posts
    May 17, 2021 12:31 PM PDT

    bigdogchris said:

    For people who want to learn more about some philosophy against cash shops, check out KiraTV on YouTube. I think he does a fantastic job explaining why cash shops ruin games. His philosophy is that companies create problems to later sell you the solution, and that you shouldn't have games designed were players want to pay to skip content or pay to get better looking items. It disincentivizes the companies from making good products that people want to play.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRoYayTU-L4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5879kOeT_w

    I agree with this POV.  MMOs have gone through a deevolution to micro-transactions and cash shops.  Instead of designing a game to be the best possible experience, they instead design the games to leave room for the influence of cash shops.  I was injoying the Rift when they intruduced the cash shop and "Free to Play".  At the same time they removed fall damage, because of a bug with players taking fall damage while mounted (if my recall is correct).  They were selling mounts in the cash shop.  When they did this playing solo became way to easy, because it was easier to avoid high level mobs, cause I could just jump off a cliff and the AI pathing would not follow.  I quit after a week or so after the cash shop and FTP

    if you are making design choices or making changes the gameplay because your planing a cash shop, then just give everyone's money back and let's all go home.


    This post was edited by Caine at May 17, 2021 12:33 PM PDT
    • 1169 posts
    May 17, 2021 4:12 PM PDT

    Caine said:

    I agree with this POV.  MMOs have gone through a deevolution to micro-transactions and cash shops.  Instead of designing a game to be the best possible experience, they instead design the games to leave room for the influence of cash shops.  I was injoying the Rift when they intruduced the cash shop and "Free to Play".  At the same time they removed fall damage, because of a bug with players taking fall damage while mounted (if my recall is correct).  They were selling mounts in the cash shop.  When they did this playing solo became way to easy, because it was easier to avoid high level mobs, cause I could just jump off a cliff and the AI pathing would not follow.  I quit after a week or so after the cash shop and FTP

    if you are making design choices or making changes the gameplay because your planing a cash shop, then just give everyone's money back and let's all go home.

    One of the other good points he makes is that people who say they 'don't care' may think that way until the company starts selling items for something you do care about, and by that time it's too late.