Here is a quote from Joppa, dated back to May of 2017:
(Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6068/live-stream-05-02-feedback/view/page/1 ;)
Joppa said:Loving the feedback everyone!
As a general note, I just want to reiterate that our Death system is still under heavy consideration. We may move towards de-leveling in the near future (I'm not opposed to it). We may end up with a hybrid, where a certain amount of EXP debt is accumulated before an actual de-level. Or we may stick with a pure EXP-debt system.
You can bank on us trying all 3 of these approaches, if not more, during Alpha and Beta testing before we make a final decision.
This information has been known for 3+ years and has been cited in pretty much every "death penalty" discussion that has appeared on the forum since then. We're only a few days away from the next development stream and it seems highly likely that we'll receive some additional clarity about this topic at that time. Until then, let's relax a bit on the sky-is-falling-because-silence-stuff.
BamBam said: I belive its for the greater good to spawn with ur equipped items on, it caters to way more players that the hardcore element is at a level where most can cope with. Its nice that you need to get ur other items, coins and it creates the need to get back and recover the items. I can see a potential grp setup where, the entier go and clean out their incentory and bank their coin. Right before deep diving into a hard dungeon. To minimize risk and Max rewards. Already hyped, good middel way of you ask me.
I agree BamBam. If a person feels that it is important and adds a level of difficulty to the game to have a "backup gearset" in the bank... by all means, knock yourself out and have multiple sets of equipment because there may be durability to concern yourself with too.
Naked corpse runs "was" nothing more than an inconvenience introduced to make a relatively easy game more challenging... much like how the zones were comprised of impassable terrain in an attempt to give the illusion of a much larger game area than there actually was. There is no need for illusionary mechanics/psychological tricks to instill a "sense" of challenge or vastness in the world when they can "actually" make the combat challenging and the areas "actually" vast.
Add: Classic EQ was relatively small compared to what this game can be - naked CRs in EQ could take hours just to get across a couple of the relatively small zones. Extrapolate that and add in potential atmospheric challenges...
Add2: Naked CR also HEAVILY punished the melee disproportionately to casters.
Since I have a few minutes between meetings, further thoughts to go with my post above.
Corpse Recovery limitations and tools:
- Corpses should probably rot after 7 days real-time. This is long enough that almost all players would have at least a few chances to recover their corpse, and that it would be very inconvenient for them to wait out the timer. When a corpse rots, it can no longer be resurrected. Anything left on the corpse at that time can be recovered by interacting with an NPC or object in the world somewhere.
- There should probably not be a fee or penalty involved in recovering items this way, because if there is a fee/penalty, you are penalizing players who are affected by circumstances beyond their control - ie, unable to log in due to a natural disaster, loss of internet connectivity, or some other RL issue. I also feel that if someone is still actively playing and is willing to wait 7 days without recovering their corpse, they probably don't really care about what's on it anyway and no amount of penalty is going to change that.
- Players should be able to /consent other players to help recover their corpse. With consent given, players can perform actions like drag corpses a short distance. This is useful for when the corpse is sitting right underneath the very angry boss monster, for example. Players can drag it out to perform a resurrection in a safer location. Presumably, a skilled enough player could drag it all the way back to the beginning of a dungeon, but this should require skill on the part of the player doing the dragging.
- If spells that allow corpses to be summoned exist, they should require some form of reagent/money sink so that physically reaching the corpse is still a preferred method.
- Players may need help **finding** their corpse depending on where/how they died. Ideally, the game should give them some kind of direction/distance pointer to locate their corpse. It does not have to be a glowing trail of light, but it should be something along the lines of "it's up ahead and slightly to the left".
oneADseven said:This information has been known for 3+ years and has been cited in pretty much every "death penalty" discussion that has appeared on the forum since then. We're only a few days away from the next development stream and it seems highly likely that we'll receive some additional clarity about this topic at that time. Until then, let's relax a bit on the sky-is-falling-because-silence-stuff.
Thank you! It seems I have been here off and on for a long time. Even I don't keep track and up to date with everything.
FatedEmperor said:I support the new changes but like a few others have stated I think that the concept of de-leveling probably needs to implement to maintain systematic balance with the new changes.
You write this so eloquently! Thank you, truly. I think this is what myself and others meant especially now with the changes.
oneADseven said:... This information has been known for 3+ years and has been cited in pretty much every "death penalty" discussion that has appeared on the forum since then. We're only a few days away from the next development stream and it seems highly likely that we'll receive some additional clarity about this topic at that time. Until then, let's relax a bit on the sky-is-falling-because-silence-stuff.
And yet, it (their stance on de-leveling, after testing for 3+ years) wasn't clarified in a post specifically on the topic, in the past two days. Hm.
Doesn't that seem even slightly odd to you?
Just because " you " do not agree with what has been stated about death penalty. Doesn't mean it is another WoW and so much for a real MMO and all the other childesh nonsence that I have read.
I like what has been said about death penalty. If you want to persuade me than talk in a mature tone and present your case. I'm open minded. With that said as soon as I read the immature comments that only equate to grown adults crying like a spoiled child. I walk away.
By the way will still "have" to do CR's. Helps to read and put your bias away. We only respawn with the gear we had own. So only naked CR's has been removed. You will have to get your corpse for all inventory items and cash you had. It is a great compromised between the diffent views on CR's. How ever some you like I already said. Act like children and want every thing your way and to hell with acting like an adult and compromising some.
Don't talk about other MMO's that hold peoples hands when you clearly have been persuaded by those same MMO's you try to compare Pantheon to. It shows you for the hypocrite you really are. In those MMO's if you make enough noise they always cave to you and some you you doing a lot of misplaced comparison are doing just that.
Vandraad said:- Respawn with the gear you were wearing when you died still equipped.I guess there is really no need to call it a corpse run anymore, more like a corpse walk-in-the-park, or corpse stroll-through-a-pleasant-meadow.
If the content you were taking on when you died was a walk in the park, yeah. Assuming the content that killed you was actually tough, then no.
vjek said:oneADseven said:... This information has been known for 3+ years and has been cited in pretty much every "death penalty" discussion that has appeared on the forum since then. We're only a few days away from the next development stream and it seems highly likely that we'll receive some additional clarity about this topic at that time. Until then, let's relax a bit on the sky-is-falling-because-silence-stuff.And yet, it (their stance on de-leveling, after testing for 3+ years) wasn't clarified in a post specifically on the topic, in the past two days. Hm.
Doesn't that seem even slightly odd to you?
Nope. Joppa clarified what he had to to clean up a leak. I don't doubt that what he has said is still subject to change, because that's what has been said for years. It would be entirely pointless to 'clarify' any further when it will probably change anyway.
As 1AD7 said and I said and Joppa and anyone else in VR have said for years: Death penalty is subject to testing and feedback and it makes sense for it to be that way too. The comments in this thread make that clear.
In fact, really, anything is, though there may be some things more solid than others.
Really folks. This whole OMGWTF freaking out is a little embarrassing sometimes.
Vander said:Don't talk about other MMO's that hold peoples hands when you clearly have been persuaded by those same MMO's you try to compare Pantheon to. It shows you for the hypocrite you really are.
Early years EQ1: Upon death, respawn naked at your bind point. No armor, no weapons, no inventory.
Pantheon: Upon death, respawn fully geared at your bind point. No inventory.
Which one is more hand holding than the other?
This is a good starting point for death penalty. But I do have my doubts. On one hand it is not enough but on the other hand it might be too much. As I think most of us feel the sting of death should be felt but that is easy to say and harder to implement.
EQ did not have a perfect death penalty. For example, if you were in a raid there was almost no downside to a single player dying. You were most likely rezed instantly with almost no EXP loss. That and if you were maxed level the loss was easily recovered as long as you grouped at all. When raiding I know I only feared a full raid wipe never a death.
Death in EQ was not at all equal for all players. MT or pullers in raid for example could die many times a day making them far more likely to have an issue with death then any of the other raid members. So, while we are all getting the same reward some are risking far more then others.
Outside of raid I feel the disparity of death really starts to show. If you have a pickup group and you have spent 2-8 hours slowly progressing to the depths of a dungeon and then wipe. Are you going to have that support to get your corpse back? Many times, you did not even have a healer that could rez. Why should a group have more risk than a raid?
This was brought up before but it is a very valid point. Some classes losing their gear hurt far more then others. As a wizard losing my gear had a minimal affect in comparison to my paladin.
I do not have a fix for the above issues. I had more fear of death in EQ then I did in any other game so while it is far from perfect it is a good starting point. It would be nice if death was equal to all players based on risk vs reward though.
A few points:
Permanent loss of Gear
My problem with permanent loss of gear is the negative incentive to possibly play much longer then is healthy. I hear stories of people that stayed up to the point of falling asleep at the keyboard and while this is a fun story it is not a good thing for any game to encourage. In EQ they later implemented a graveyard. After a set amount of time your corpse would be moved to the grave yard. The graveyard was a mostly safe area. I feel this was a good addition but if Pantheon adds them, I suggest making all experience permanently lost. You could also make all coin permanently lost.
Gear durability loss
I just do not like it. I never alter my action based on this penalty but it is annoying. I am not suggesting it should not be used but I sure wish someone could come up with a better option.
Loss of EXP
I feel this should include loss of level. Unless others can come up with better death penalty, we need something and while it always sucked to lose a level in EQ something has to suck for death to sting.
Resurrection
In Vanguard each healing class could pass to their groups an item that could rez the healer. I feel like this is important. Not only to keep the pain of death equal for all players but I also feel this helps keep groups together having fun. As some have said the rez should be far less then 96% recovered. Even with a rez death should sting.
Bind location
I like someone’s suggestion that the bind points be limited and equal. As a wizard I loved that I could bind anywhere but as this will be one of the most important parts of the death penalty, I think it should be equal to all players. Another option is to have classes able to bind themselves and others. This would make it equal. The location could still be limited to get the extra run time penalty for deaths.
Corpse Drag
This should be corpse carry. Many other games have carrying people and to me this has always looked better than having a corpse teleporting behind you as you run.
Vandraad said:Vander said:Don't talk about other MMO's that hold peoples hands when you clearly have been persuaded by those same MMO's you try to compare Pantheon to. It shows you for the hypocrite you really are.
Early years EQ1: Upon death, respawn naked at your bind point. No armor, no weapons, no inventory.
Pantheon: Upon death, respawn fully geared at your bind point. No inventory.Which one is more hand holding than the other?
Not being identical to EQ doesn't mean "handholding". Taking a single aspect of the death penalty and recovery process in isolation is meaningless.
Early years of EQ1: Being able to get an invis/stealth character to drag to zone and a 96% rez. Never ever even hearing of someone I know lose their gear on their corpse.
Pantheon: No idea. Maybe not been fully implemented yet never mind tested. The severity and impact of multiple other related aspects like durability damage, binding flexibility, difficulty of travel, effectiveness of invis/stealth, etc, all unknown.
Nephele said:- I feel like it needs de-leveling in order for it to still matter as much at max level.
Excellent point. This is exactly why deleveling from exp-loss is the appropriate compromise for the recent changes. I think when it comes to death/exp-loss, the risk of deleveling should be there.
starblight said:Loss of EXP
I feel this should include loss of level. Unless others can come up with better death penalty, we need something and while it always sucked to lose a level in EQ something has to suck for death to sting.
I wholeheartedly agree. Death needs to sting, and death should definitely sting more after learning what was leaked. I hope deleveling is a part of the death penalty now that we know chars respawn with all their gear after death (I understand why, but death penalty needs to sting too).
if durabilty works like WoW - it's a nothing burger worth exactly zero fear of dying or being stoopud.
if durability works like Dark Age Of Camelot where your equipment is less effective AND very expensive / hard to repair (items farmed / crafted to repair ?) - then it's a penalty. especially if it's like 25-33 % per death. that's a yikes moment. but it then forces everyone out of the group for repairs the instant you get your body back, even if it's not a party wipe.
Again, a weapon and mana, backup gear in the bank (bind point anyone?) and 1-2 friends (especially pets) with some form of invis / sneak / hide smell (FF 11 anyone ?) - can get you very , very far, or a rogue friend or random rogue to make some $$ during downtime (waiting for a raid, a few minutes to kill ) for CR promotes this social atmosphere.
I would be a fool to bring more than 1-2 cheap bags with me to a dungeon for exp or an upgraded peice of gear, the death of losing my bag and money I have in the bank - is just not entralling or immersive. hello every other MMO ever made since EQ1.
Nephele said:Since I have a few minutes between meetings, further thoughts to go with my post above.
Corpse Recovery limitations and tools:
- Corpses should probably rot after 7 days real-time. This is long enough that almost all players would have at least a few chances to recover their corpse, and that it would be very inconvenient for them to wait out the timer. When a corpse rots, it can no longer be resurrected. Anything left on the corpse at that time can be recovered by interacting with an NPC or object in the world somewhere.
[...]
My take on this is the RL timer is pegged to when you log in. Example: you die on Jul 27 2020, corpse in Lava, after a few hours trying to get help unsucessfully you log out, 6D 20 hrs left on corpse timer. Next day, you win the lottery. You spend the next 2 years travelling the world, then get a new PC. Log in, Corpse has 6D 19hrs 59min remaining before it rots...
Yea I have to agree with others that yelling angrily without feedback / arguements for your position is not helpful. Anyways that's not my job so I'll stop there.
@starblight
Permanent loss of Gear
My problem with permanent loss of gear is the negative incentive to possibly play much longer then is healthy. I hear stories of people that stayed up to the point of falling asleep at the keyboard and while this is a fun story it is not a good thing for any game to encourage. In EQ they later implemented a graveyard. After a set amount of time your corpse would be moved to the grave yard. The graveyard was a mostly safe area. I feel this was a good addition but if Pantheon adds them, I suggest making all experience permanently lost. You could also make all coin permanently lost.
The (out-dated) FAQ does say there is No perma item loss. Ugh I don't really like the idea of "just wait it out for GY spawn" but with no item loss there has to be some way they plan to return your inventory. Unless they have changed that and mean no equipped item loss? hehe. I agree with making exp / coin perma lost for a GY spawn and would also suggest that the wait time be long enough that you would Not want to leave your bags for that long.
Gear durability loss
I just do not like it. I never alter my action based on this penalty but it is annoying. I am not suggesting it should not be used but I sure wish someone could come up with a better option.
I had posted in another CR thread about using a death debuff but one that Really stings like perma 25-33% ALL Damage/Healing/Defense/incoming Heals/resists reduction until you get the corpse back that it was tied to. The debuff would stack for each death and at full stacks you would be useless. The same thing could be done with durability as a death penalty but would almost be more harsh in 1 way because you'd need the repairs instead of just getting your soulstone off your corpse to cure a stack of death sickness, but then much less harsh if it only affected the stats on each individual item and not your overall char stats being debuffed.
Loss of EXP
I feel this should include loss of level. Unless others can come up with better death penalty, we need something and while it always sucked to lose a level in EQ something has to suck for death to sting.
Really feels like this only matters at max level to me because having a huge debt kinda sucks when you are trying to level up a lot more. Then again at max level raids as has been noted it only matters in a wipe. Anyone else play EQ2 at launch when there was Group exp debt? If Anyone died in your group, Everyone in the group earned exp debt. That was freakin awesome because if someone could not listen and kept getting everyone debt they would be kicked. And that was at a time when newbie dungeons had ^^^ elites. If debt prevents you from gaining mastery points / AA through experience at Max lvl is that enough though? Hmm I dunno but if combined with a 25-33% perma death sickness debuff as above it probably would because you would be gimped until you retrieved.
Resurrection
In Vanguard each healing class could pass to their groups an item that could rez the healer. I feel like this is important. Not only to keep the pain of death equal for all players but I also feel this helps keep groups together having fun. As some have said the rez should be far less then 96% recovered. Even with a rez death should sting.
Have to disagree on this one even though I loved it when I dual boxxed in VG. I think if the healer goes down it should be a big moment in a dungeon. Healers can res their own corpse for exp right? Group should be doing all that is possible to get the healer back to them. Sounds like easy mode to me, healer dies meh no biggie we have 5 res stones. On the exp % I would wait for testing on this and see how tough things really are and what the leveling curve is like. If it is a bit more towards EQ1 hell level then perhaps a healer epic should be up there in the 90%. OR perhaps you get res at mid level and it never goes above X% so different versions don't matter and you have a better chance of always finding the best res?
Bind location
I like someone’s suggestion that the bind points be limited and equal. As a wizard I loved that I could bind anywhere but as this will be one of the most important parts of the death penalty, I think it should be equal to all players. Another option is to have classes able to bind themselves and others. This would make it equal. The location could still be limited to get the extra run time penalty for deaths.
In EQ1 you could bind others in your group. I sort of feel like this says "get rid of ports because it's unfair to melee whom can't port". I realize that is hyperbole but you get it. It creates (perhaps needless tedium) social interaction that I can recall seeing a lot "Looking for a bind out front of XYZ pls". I guess I'm saying caster identity and social interaction without thinking enough of others being punished so meh.
Corpse Drag
This should be corpse carry. Many other games have carrying people and to me this has always looked better than having a corpse teleporting behind you as you run.
Just want to point out that in the early days /consent was not only to drag but to Loot a corpse LOL. You had to trust that rogue enough to drag it to you without stealing your stuff. Am I wrong in this because I seem to clearly remember my cousin looting my corpse and trading my gear back to me because it was easier than running back up with /corpse. I'm talking vanilla 1999.
It seems like a lot of people don't think bringing your best bags to a dungeon that perhaps has the best loot for you will be a thing due to the death penalty. I feel like you would want to bring as much weight/slots as you can for on level+ loot that is dropping from mobs that can wipe you. Sure I get it for an exploration / figure out strategies it would be a cheese deal. Same with your best clickies and potions, wouldn't you want the best to defeat the tough encounters that drop the good loot? Otherwise we are talking about places that probably Won't kill you anyways lol.
Iksar said:Zorkon said:"All general inventory remains on corpse" so we drop a sacrificial corps at the entrance to hold all our stuff, to be rezed, looted on the way back out.
"All priest classes will boast the same exp return for their rezzes" lol normalize all healing classes.. equal but different names. shows us whats in store for the DPS classes as well I suppoe.
I am not amused, sound like there totally selling out to main stream MMO's
Well see I suppose.Because no one ever needs their actual inventory. No one needs bags/relics/tools/potions/clickies/whatever else, no one loots any items or money when grouping.
XP Rez is a core function of the healer role. It was not enjoyable in the least to sit around waiting specifically for a cleric in EQ (often paying them) to recover from a death, not to mention being a cleric forced to play on /anon so you don't have tells flooding you all the time. The mere existence of an XP rez if it were single class exclusive (or even just better on one) would mean one healer would be highly prioritized over the others, much the same as if only one tank class had access to taunt. Let's not pretend this is some great slight or homogenization.
Euther said:I would be a fool to bring more than 1-2 cheap bags with me to a dungeon for exp or an upgraded peice of gear, the death of losing my bag and money I have in the bank - is just not entralling or immersive. hello every other MMO ever made since EQ1.
@Iksar Your correct "no one ever needs their actual inventory" they don't need there coin, they don't need all their weight reduction bags, they need 2 or 3 throw away bags a stack of food and water and Ok, maybe a potion or two, we can call it a "dungon crawl kit" that we could cary arround in our expensive weight reduction bag's
Would be a fool to risk their actual inventory for the sake of what 5-10 kills worth of experiance (IF there is any kind of risk to the dungon at all) You know it's going to happen, got two people talking about it already in a 4 page thread.... apply 5000 people.. were going to be having trouble looting out Bank Corps's at the entrance.
Zorkon said:Iksar said:Zorkon said:"All general inventory remains on corpse" so we drop a sacrificial corps at the entrance to hold all our stuff, to be rezed, looted on the way back out.
"All priest classes will boast the same exp return for their rezzes" lol normalize all healing classes.. equal but different names. shows us whats in store for the DPS classes as well I suppoe.
I am not amused, sound like there totally selling out to main stream MMO's
Well see I suppose.Because no one ever needs their actual inventory. No one needs bags/relics/tools/potions/clickies/whatever else, no one loots any items or money when grouping.
XP Rez is a core function of the healer role. It was not enjoyable in the least to sit around waiting specifically for a cleric in EQ (often paying them) to recover from a death, not to mention being a cleric forced to play on /anon so you don't have tells flooding you all the time. The mere existence of an XP rez if it were single class exclusive (or even just better on one) would mean one healer would be highly prioritized over the others, much the same as if only one tank class had access to taunt. Let's not pretend this is some great slight or homogenization.
Euther said:I would be a fool to bring more than 1-2 cheap bags with me to a dungeon for exp or an upgraded peice of gear, the death of losing my bag and money I have in the bank - is just not entralling or immersive. hello every other MMO ever made since EQ1.
@Iksar Your correct "no one ever needs their actual inventory" they don't need there coin, they don't need all their weight reduction bags, they need 2 or 3 throw away bags a stack of food and water and Ok, maybe a potion or two, we can call it a "dungon crawl kit" that we could cary arround in our expensive weight reduction bag's
Would be a fool to risk their actual inventory for the sake of what 5-10 kills worth of experiance (IF there is any kind of risk to the dungon at all) You know it's going to happen, got two people talking about it already in a 4 page thread.... apply 5000 people.. were going to be having trouble looting out Bank Corps's at the entrance.
I so don't understand this other than a raid where you may not loot anything or a learning crawl where you Expect to die. I'll bring my 20 slot bags and loot all the extra stuff to sell that you are passing on because you decided to come with 8 slotters and are leaving everything to rot? And what about the part about your good clickies and potions / food might WIN that fight so that you don't have a CR to begin with? So confused on why your way will be prevelant. Please explain your point of view as to Why that will be the norm rather than my logic. I mean that sincerely I'm just having trouble seeing myself do that unless it were a very likely death.
In EQ1 you could argue it was the same way (except for equipped gear) so why didn't everyone leave their bags and inventory at the Corpse Bank up front in EQ1? (Edit: You could loot 1 item at a time and actually had to have the space to loot everything or else leave it on the corpse)
There needs to be a balance between fun content that is also challenging compared to mechanics that are just plain annoying because they're sole purpose is to create an "illusion" of challenge/difficulty by removing game content in order to increase player anxiety because there were no alternatives available at the time.
Stop comparing this CR to other games.
Classic EQ: Until you learned your way through Rathe Mountains, it could take you hours of hugging a wall to get to the other side of the map - but when you look at the map today (and its false barriers because you couldn't walk over the hills) it takes you less than a minute to run through. By the end of classic you could cover the entirety of the game in a few hours with a Bard or Druid... But people try to compare corpse runs through EQ (which still could take several hours as a tiny game) to the grandeur of faerthale, which could probably be explored by itself for several hours (without needing false barriers to create the illusion of vastness).
WoW: Stop comparing this to WoW corpse runs. THERE'S NO COMPARISON. You don't even have to interact with the environment in WoW because you're an immune ghost that can fly over water, then when you enter an instance that you died in you magically get all of your stuff back as soon as you zone in. Not even close to the same.
There are people in Pre-Alpha playing this. This decision wasn't just whimsical. There's a reason they are making the decision they are making and it is not for the sake of pandering to the "soft core" players. If you had trouble in an area WITH all of your gear in PRotF, chances are that it will be near to impossible to retrieve your corpse WITHOUT gear in some areas.
Other important things to keep in mind:
1. Your acclimation items will be tied to your equipment; You know... the items that will allow you to even enter some areas or survive in others.
2. These encounters and NPCs will be somewhat dynamic. It's not like classic EQ where you can study the patrol pattern of a mob and then scoot past when it is safe to do so.
3. Rogues don't get ez-mode perma stealth either, you have to work for it, so get that idea out of your head too. Priests wont start with rez; and there won't be any player corpse summoning at the start of the game.
Syrif said:Darch said:
WoW: Stop comparing this to WoW corpse runs.
But in WoW you respawn with all your gear and weapons like what is revealed here no? I believe that's what people referred to.
It has been a little while since I played WoW but from what I recall you spawn as an invisible invaluable ghost. I do not recall if you can see your gear but you can not use it. You have a choice, if I recall correctly you can summon your corpse too you with all your gear or you can run near your corpse and spawn in with all your gear. Darch was right the proposed death penalty is nothing like WoW.
@Darch I know you are not the first to bring this up but the acclimation is a very good point. You should not have to wait until you have at least 2 sets of gear for acclimation before you can enter a zone just so you are able to do a corpse run.
Loxxulus said:I personally hate bothering others to help me retrieve my corpse. If I respawn my with my armor I can at least have a better chance at retrieving it myself.This penalty is fine. I'm sure most will go back for their money and inventory including bags.
I get your point. I just want to point out that for the majority of your game experience, you probably will be grouped with at least 1 other account.
So the threshold on "bothering" someone else to pick up your corpse would be very low.
MauvaisOeil said:I'd rather have corpses beeing summoned in the surrounding of dungeon entrances, someish graveyards, but having to run there naked than respawning full of gear.
Also I support exp/lvl loss to make experience meaningull outside of just having "debts" to mastery points at level cap.
I wouldn't want to see a graveyard with piles of corpses at the same place.
Imagine running through a dungeon and at specific areas or locations there are corpses to be found.
As a player passing these corpses, you might get more excited, attentive to your surrounding. Just purely based on the observation of where the corpses are found. It gets you in the flow of the danger and in a way it's a indirect measure on how challenging this specific place is.
So from that perspective, the location of people's corpses gives other players an experience, a valueable one. If you just pile them up at the entrance, there isn't much experience to be had or you will learn less from seeing these corpses.
dorotea said:I agree that durability loss is ...unimpressive ...as a penalty. Loss of money hurts a bit but we will rapidly learn to keep almost all money in the bank to be taken out as needed. Loss of items may or may not sting significantly. I assume items will include any back-up gear not actually being worn at the time of death and if we carry multiple sets of good gear for differing condidtions loss of all backups until after a corpse run will make a real difference.
It's one thing to learn to bank your cash. But how would you pay for repairs if you revive without a coin on you and a bank far away from your bind spot? Regional bank does not equal to a bind spot having bank options.
With this in mind, death, coin loss and repair will become more impactful than one might think at first glance. Also, VR has mentioned before that loot would be less omnipresent on mobs. If you bring no cash with you on a run and you die. You'll need to get your corpse to pick up any cash you've gotten along the way. And you're hoping from the start that you'll loot enough coin to cover the repaircosts, if there is a way to repair during that session at all. Perhaps not everyone would take this leap of fate. I know I won't.