Manouk said:I think the idea is how to draw the line between acting/roleplay and catfishing, as roleplay exists within a framework and catfishing exists outside of a framework (outlaw?). Catfishing intends to be real and is therefore deceptive and as a result is insulting/cruel/worthy of retribution and judgment or ostracism because of the pain caused to the recipient because the recipient does not know its fake. Whereas Acting/roleplay within a framework is considered worthy of praise and adoration and is often willingly paid for, sometimes dearly, by the recipient because the recipient knows it is fake. It's when that line is crossed that it ceases to be roleplay and becomes catfishing and unfortunately like sexual harrasement accusations, is purely subjective unless there is a witness.
I mean there are boundaries and rules, dwarves drink a certain way... all the time, Ogres don't talk..."gud" They are very general but provide a framework at least in a RP scenario. However where such a scenario does not exist except implied by virtue of the game world itself- like a 3-D interactive dressed up forum (Habbo hotel) the line is not that clear and almost implied that you are intended to hide behind the screen and let parts of the real you come out, if you want, while hiding other parts.
someone will get their jollies out of re-rolling a character and bilking the same core group or same people out of tons of gold or cash and never stop to think why they aren't the ones with that gold or cash to be able to be bilked out of over and over again and when they do, its usually too late and if history is any judge? usually ends up poorly for them in RL via karma or otherwise. May take a while,sadly, but it comes around, and the formerly bilked are there to see it happen and live on or out-survive happily.
stellarogrin laughs, "git gud yoo small hooman! i crush you like pewknee hooman yoo r!"
stellarogrin begins to cast 9th tier swol fyabawl.
stellarogrin's swol fyabawl hits you for 1337 damage.
you die.
As a former FFXI player, I totally understand the argument of "reputation matters." People very rarely rolled alts that were used for anything outside of bank storage in that game. You were your character, essentially. That kind of system couldn't work in Pantheon due to race/class restrictions unless all players would be willing to accept that the horizontal progression potential of humans is 350% higher than ogres, and everything else in between. Apparently, a lot of people don't enjoy that sort of thing (the FFXI system) and they want the option to create a bunch of alternate identities for reasons X/Y/Z. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too, IMO. Beyond that ... let's not pretend that everybody who wants to hold grudges would do so rationally or with good intention.
oneADseven said:Kumu said:Baldur said: "If I want you to know or you need to know who I am playing, then I will let you know".
Agreed. Opt-in system (re: Nephele’s suggestion) would be terrific.
100% agreed. Pantheon is supposed to have some sort of game-system that helps players find friends with similar interests. Let this be an option for those who wish to graduate their relationships.
Agreed.
People here ignoring the fact that it isn't that hard to get brigaded for some small *perceived* slight against the wrong person or guild, to have a bad reputation through no fault of your own. Or to just be harassed in general.
Aich said:Riahuf22 said:Lol, we'll believe it or not Aich the second one is going to happen whether the it's there or not so what's your point? I mean if there is nothing to stop bad players from being bad do you really think they won't do bad things? See how that really doesn't make sense, that's because it doesn't.
Lol, I forgot they don't like gifs on the forums so I editited it out. You be surprised how well not allowing name changes works.
What we should be worried about are the gold farmers and the people who box 6 mages and camp a rare drop 24/7 afk.
This is true that there might be guilds that could be formed that might literally do the things you say, but that guild as a whole would be looked at in a negative way so them being in a guild that does this only makes it easy for the community to identify them as being bad company so really they are helping us out for making them easy to spot and not really the other way around.
Iksar said:oneADseven said:Kumu said:Baldur said: "If I want you to know or you need to know who I am playing, then I will let you know".
Agreed. Opt-in system (re: Nephele’s suggestion) would be terrific.
100% agreed. Pantheon is supposed to have some sort of game-system that helps players find friends with similar interests. Let this be an option for those who wish to graduate their relationships.
Agreed.
People here ignoring the fact that it isn't that hard to get brigaded for some small *perceived* slight against the wrong person or guild, to have a bad reputation through no fault of your own. Or to just be harassed in general.
This is true, hmm, do you have a brainstorm idea of how you could both have a system to keep the community healthy and also not be used to harass an individual, maybe just a ignore all account list just so you can ignore that player completely instead of the account link, like another player said would that be better in your opinion?
The ignore and report (with VR enforcing/banning people) is how you address harassment. There is no need to make alts anonymous (thus negatively impacting the social aspect of the game) on account of this issue.
Also, having alts be anonymous can actually enable harassment. Imagine a jerk gets mad at you for something, and he uses multiple alts to trash talk you in chat, giving others the impression that the accusations are much more credible than they would be if it was just once source making accusations. You guys are fixated on using the anonymity to your benefit when playing an alt, but most of the time people will be on their main characters, and you're ignoring all the creative ways that trolls can use the anonymity to their own benefit.
Riahuf22 said:Aich said:Riahuf22 said:This is true that there might be guilds that could be formed that might literally do the things you say, but that guild as a whole would be looked at in a negative way so them being in a guild that does this only makes it easy for the community to identify them as being bad company so really they are helping us out for making them easy to spot and not really the other way around.
(terminus interpolice department)(rppvp)(this is satire not an actual guild recruit) is now recruiting! we slay lawbreaking terminians. must have pvp trial. you'll be assigned to a hit squad. someone camping you? a trainer causing problems? getting grieved into the dirt? dm our dispatch @tiddispatch! we take our time getting to your location just like real life city police that can't be bothered by every little crime. in most cases our dispatch will comfort you with digital tissues, but in few cases we'll show up and pub stomp the baddies. police brutality is our motto! we'll make sure they'll never give you a boo boo again!
zoltar said:Also, having alts be anonymous can actually enable harassment. Imagine a jerk gets mad at you for something, and he uses multiple alts to trash talk you in chat, giving others the impression that the accusations are much more credible than they would be if it was just once source making accusations. You guys are fixated on using the anonymity to your benefit when playing an alt, but most of the time people will be on their main characters, and you're ignoring all the creative ways that trolls can use the anonymity to their own benefit.
They wouldn't be able to use multiple alts simultaneously unless they are using multiple accounts. It wouldn't be hard for players to connect the dots and notice that these "fake supporters" are never logged in at the same time as the person they are supporting. If people are desperate enough to try and do that sort of thing, let them. If reputation matters then the credibility of these alts would also matter. An account-based name wouldn't associate someone leveraging multiple accounts so I'm not really sure what your point is here? If anything this would reward those who are willing/able to maintain multiple subscriptions at the same time in order to bypass the linking mechanism.
zoltar said:The ignore and report (with VR enforcing/banning people) is how you address harassment. There is no need to make alts anonymous (thus negatively impacting the social aspect of the game) on account of this issue.
Also, having alts be anonymous can actually enable harassment. Imagine a jerk gets mad at you for something, and he uses multiple alts to trash talk you in chat, giving others the impression that the accusations are much more credible than they would be if it was just once source making accusations. You guys are fixated on using the anonymity to your benefit when playing an alt, but most of the time people will be on their main characters, and you're ignoring all the creative ways that trolls can use the anonymity to their own benefit.
Imagine a large guild brigades you for any reason and paints you with a negative reputation, or perhaps you pissed off some streamer with a small slight and their fans slander you across the server. Now you have no choice but to leave the server and abandon all you put into it or deal with being ostracized by a good portion of the server.
Even without that, accidents happen but people on the internet are quick to anger and hold grudges instead of giving the benefit of the doubt. Bad reputation for no good reason.
Shai said:stellarmind said:...we slay lawbreaking terminians...
whoa, whoa, is "terminians" established? I feel like "terminators" is far better.
i'll tread carefully here since i'm approaching my 30 day ban... i will not confirm nor deny the names of the inhabitants of said world "terminus" nor do i speak for the vr development team, well i'll get reported for derailing the thread >.>
Rather than quote and reply to three people, I'll just answer here and those who are following should be satisfied.
It's a simple decision that I have made in games before Pantheon. Based on the past, I predict my actions in the future. There are other games that don't allow private alts, linking them to an account. I have left those games after playing them. Put them down and said goodbye.
Hope that answers. <3
Iksar said:zoltar said:The ignore and report (with VR enforcing/banning people) is how you address harassment. There is no need to make alts anonymous (thus negatively impacting the social aspect of the game) on account of this issue.
Also, having alts be anonymous can actually enable harassment. Imagine a jerk gets mad at you for something, and he uses multiple alts to trash talk you in chat, giving others the impression that the accusations are much more credible than they would be if it was just once source making accusations. You guys are fixated on using the anonymity to your benefit when playing an alt, but most of the time people will be on their main characters, and you're ignoring all the creative ways that trolls can use the anonymity to their own benefit.
Imagine a large guild brigades you for any reason and paints you with a negative reputation, or perhaps you pissed off some streamer with a small slight and their fans slander you across the server. Now you have no choice but to leave the server and abandon all you put into it or deal with being ostracized by a good portion of the server.
Even without that, accidents happen but people on the internet are quick to anger and hold grudges instead of giving the benefit of the doubt. Bad reputation for no good reason.
I mean, the obvious and best solution to this is to fight to get your reputation back. Rerolling on your server is only a slightly less crappy solution than rerolling on a separate server. The difference isn't worth the tradeoff to the community aspect of the game IMO.
Tigersin said:Rather than quote and reply to three people, I'll just answer here and those who are following should be satisfied.
It's a simple decision that I have made in games before Pantheon. Based on the past, I predict my actions in the future. There are other games that don't allow private alts, linking them to an account. I have left those games after playing them. Put them down and said goodbye.
Hope that answers. <3
Why not just play a single/main character, thereby allowing you to enjoy the game with this particular aspect being completely irrelevant to you. Or if you must play alts, you could roll alts on a different server, once again making the issue irrelevant. It just seems absurd to me for someone to abandon a game they would otherwise enjoy immensely over an issue that's so easily trivialized.
zoltar said:Why not just play a single/main character, thereby allowing you to enjoy the game with this particular aspect being completely irrelevant to you. Or if you must play alts, you could roll alts on a different server, once again making the issue irrelevant. It just seems absurd to me for someone to abandon a game they would otherwise enjoy immensely over an issue that's so easily trivialized.
I see two questions here so I'll answer them but I encourage you to think about any further questions for yourself.
First, why don't I play one character? I like to make alts for many reasons. Spouse, Friends, Streaming, Roleplaying, Spying, etc. Oh yes, I went there. Spying.
Second, why don't I roll alts on a different server? Because I like to play on just one server. I like familiarity. Some of the above mentioned thing then could not be done.
You are welcome to disagree! Post your feelings. Dislike what I type. It's all good. I'm going to stop answering questions because it seems silly at this point. I am who I am. :)
It is also worth noting, again, and I will every time the conceit is put forward as a given:
Reputation does not matter in this sense. A bad actor thrives off the bad reputation and pursues it actively. It has never been the case in the history of online gaming that someone being a bad actor, who insisted on continually being a bad actor, was in any way inhibited in their actions by the community. We really need to end this naive idea that reputation matters in a gaming community in the sense that a community will police itself and we'll all hold hands and dance in circles around a glorious game, free of trolls.
Forcing alts to be publicly known only hurts people who want their alts private for legitimate reasons.
Well damn, Chanus. Are you up for election? You have my vote. Haha. Well said.
Chanus said:Forcing alts to be publicly known only hurts people who want their alts private for legitimate reasons.
Wrong. Someone mentioned wanting anonymous alts for spying purposes. In a game that focuses on contested PVE content, allowing no-life guilds to effortlessly put alts in other guilds to sabotage their efforts is complete BS. This alone should be enough of a reason to justify account-linked alts.
zoltar said:Wrong. Someone mentioned wanting anonymous alts for spying purposes. In a game that focuses on contested PVE content, allowing no-life guilds to effortlessly put alts in other guilds to sabotage their efforts is complete BS. This alone should be enough of a reason to justify account-linked alts.
Again ... this can still be accomplished by simply playing another account. It's way more effective, too.
oneADseven said:zoltar said:Wrong. Someone mentioned wanting anonymous alts for spying purposes. In a game that focuses on contested PVE content, allowing no-life guilds to effortlessly put alts in other guilds to sabotage their efforts is complete BS. This alone should be enough of a reason to justify account-linked alts.
Again ... this can still be accomplished by simply playing another account. It's way more effective, too.
It's possible, but requires a separate account and sub for each guild you want to spy on without those guilds being able to discover you've got multiple toons in different guilds. So it's true that you can't prevent it from happening, but requiring multiple accounts/subs is an okay deterrent. If someone wants to pay for multiple subs to do this, at least the fact that they're having to pay to do it gives me comfort.