So the system is now easily circumvented by acting antisocially, so long as you don't use text chat. It provides no information for reporting the GMs don't already have access to. It unduly burdens players who would have legitimate reasons for wanting to play anonymously.
What is the benefit here?
But reporting can't be abused. The devs have the data. They can make an absolute decision in many cases, and when provided evidence of abuse that can't easily be logged (like video or screenshots), they can act. If the reported player's bad behavior cannot be substantiated then the person wont be wrongly punished by the devs.
If you're an ass that just reports every person that slightly gets on your nerves the likelyhood is that you'll be the one to eventually feel the wrath of the devs, not the people you're reporting.
The difference between the two systems (reporting and community policing that use an account tag) is that the devs have no incentive to act on abusive reporting. But the community isnt granted the level of information that devs can reference. All they have is word of mouth. To quote MIB, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." You feed them a conspiracy and many will act on it with little to no provable evidence needed.
Darch said:stellarmind said:Darch said:Watemper said:oh that is so sweet nom nom nom. thank you for that story that explains how pvp works. we are barbaric savages where if you have the skill and the means to monopolize it, so be it. you agree to this when you play on a pvp server. i see nothing wrong with it.
i don't see how this supports your disposition when you'll be on a pve server though.
If u would post the entire quote instead of deleting content you would answer your own question... Troll. Editing people's posts when you "quote" them in an attempt (failed attempt) to make a point is weak...
The "disposition" that was being taken was in defense of PvP servers being better at policing their community than PvE servers, and that simply increasing the difficulty of leveling will do very little if anything at all to hinder people from griefing.add: Because the original quote was in direct response to Watemper's comment about simply having difficult content preventing people from griefing with a hidden identity/second character due to the time it would take to level.
how dare you misrace me you bigot. i am an elf with barbaric tastes.
i figured since it was right below i just delete the quotes up to the response to facilitate a short post.
but yes i agree that pvp servers are going to be better at policing, but pvers don't really care about a reasoning that pertains to pvp servers. it's not like they can do something about training, griefing and campers so pvers are going to want account linked characters so they can police them bureaucratically.
watemper is half correct. difficulty in leveling with reduce the amount individuals causing problems.
you are correct that difficulty doesn't matter depending on how badly they want to inhibit another player/s.
just to make sure, i agree with what you are saying, but it doesn't matter to pvers.
Feyshtey said:But reporting can't be abused. The devs have the data. They can make an absolute decision in many cases, and when provided evidence of abuse that can't easily be logged (like video or screenshots), they can act. If the reported player's bad behavior cannot be substantiated then the person wont be wrongly punished by the devs.
If you're an ass that just reports every person that slightly gets on your nerves the likelyhood is that you'll be the one to eventually feel the wrath of the devs, not the people you're reporting.
The difference between the two systems (reporting and community policing that use an account tag) is that the devs have no incentive to act on abusive reporting. But the community isnt granted the level of information that devs can reference. All they have is word of mouth. To quote MIB, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." You feed them a conspiracy and many will act on it with little to no provable evidence needed.
Reporting can't be abused? Reporting has been abused for years, I've seen people get a communication block for simply telling someone to go play roblox. Lol like seriously reporting get way more abused than you think specially if you don't think it gets abused at all. Granted do the devs look at it yes but if you get like 50 false reports and than finally get a legitimate one, between all of them it could accidently, and unintended get overlooked it happens all the time.
Again there's an offline e feature, and an ignore feature, and honestly you can say it doesn't give you privacy but let's be honest most people shove all of their characters in the same guild, or tell their friends their alts that aren't in the guild. So ultimately the system isn't even doing anything for or against you, you can try to claim or say little remarks that mean absolutely nothing (Chanus). But that doesn't mean the system itself is bad many games are using it and it is doing more good things than bad, for one if it is as bad as you seem to try to make it would of been put on blast from the community of ESO and all the other games that have used it but it hadn't so again I'm going to agree with the communtiy that deals with it everyday than people who theory craft how it could be bad for a ga.e that has probably never Sen it be used.
I played ESO.
The trolling in general chat was rampant, even with visible nicknames. The trolling in WoW is rampant, even with being able to know someone's Battle.net handle. The system doesn't prevent anything, and is an impediment to people who want more privacy.
ESO is also a massively online single player game for the most part. Almost none of the content benefits much from having a group, and even less requires one.
Offline feature solves very little.
The whole purpose to community policing based on an account tag is that if the community says that a person is bad, and they have the account tag, the community won't group with any character associated with that tag.
What does showing as offline do? It allows me to play an alt that's shown as offline. So if I want to play an alt to avoid someone, how do I get a group when I'm showing as offline?
Some people do put all their alts in one guild, and tell their friends about all their alts. I don't know if it's accurate to say that "most" people do. And I'm 100% sure that it's wrong to say "all" people do. I'm among those who don't. I make this choice conciously, for very specific reasons that are entirely legitimate. Everyone in my family does the same. Several of my friends do as well. We want the freedom to go do what we want to do without being hassled by anyone to join groups or attend raids or help with a quest or help transfer gear between characters or escort someone thru zones or 1000 other reasons, often those very same friends and family :)
Sometimes you just want to do your own thing that you planned out and you don't want to get waylaid by someone else's agenda. And you don't want to hurt their feelings by just saying no. Your system dramatically reduces that possibilty, even if I'm showing as offline. ("Hey, bob is showing as offline, but he's standing here at the forge doing smithing...")
Chanus said:I played ESO.
The trolling in general chat was rampant, even with visible nicknames. The trolling in WoW is rampant, even with being able to know someone's Battle.net handle. The system doesn't prevent anything, and is an impediment to people who want more privacy.
ESO is also a massively online single player game for the most part. Almost none of the content benefits much from having a group, and even less requires one.
Lol so you think not having it would cause less trolling? That doesn't even make sense, shot with you could text to people og candy crush there would be trolling it just the type of behavior to expect now days, but at least you know who your trolls are, as for the other way you would never know, and you can say ESO was a single player game but wouldn't that make the trolling easier to perform, with Pantheon being heavily focused around grouping and the players knowing who you are wouldn't that stop some from trolling as bad as they normally would if they really wanted to play the game seriously?
Granted it's not going to prevent the trolls that simply want to troll but again there's an ignore function for them and you can keep him out of you chat box forever if you decided to do so plus if it's account wide he would probably soon feel alone in a community that long forgot him.
Chanus said:I played ESO.
The trolling in general chat was rampant, even with visible nicknames. The trolling in WoW is rampant, even with being able to know someone's Battle.net handle. The system doesn't prevent anything, and is an impediment to people who want more privacy.
ESO is also a massively online single player game for the most part. Almost none of the content benefits much from having a group, and even less requires one.
There is plenty of group and raid content in ESO I donno when you played it but its had plenty of raid content and group content for a while now. Even at launch it had group content aplenty. The leveling experiance is solo heavy for sure I will give you that but if you seek group play it is there.
I didn't experiance much trolling in ESO and the "bad actors" usually got put on ignore so they never bothered me, hence why I feel we need a global account ignore function more than anything else.
Kellie said:Chanus said:I played ESO.
The trolling in general chat was rampant, even with visible nicknames. The trolling in WoW is rampant, even with being able to know someone's Battle.net handle. The system doesn't prevent anything, and is an impediment to people who want more privacy.
ESO is also a massively online single player game for the most part. Almost none of the content benefits much from having a group, and even less requires one.
There is plenty of group and raid content in ESO I donno when you played it but its had plenty of raid content and group content for a while now. Even at launch it had group content aplenty. The leveling experiance is solo heavy for sure I will give you that but if you seek group play it is there.
I didn't experiance much trolling in ESO and the "bad actors" usually got put on ignore so they never bothered me, hence why I feel we need a global account ignore function more than anything else.
If people being annoying in chat quickly got on your ignore list, and so you didn't care, why is it a burden to just add another character to your ignore list?
Feyshtey said:If people being annoying in chat quickly got on your ignore list, and so you didn't care, why is it a burden to just add another character to your ignore list?
Well its a problem when ignore lists usually have a limit to them. I dont see why ignore one person should not put their entire account on ignore.
Kellie said:Feyshtey said:If people being annoying in chat quickly got on your ignore list, and so you didn't care, why is it a burden to just add another character to your ignore list?
Well its a problem when ignore lists usually have a limit to them. I dont see why ignore one person should not put their entire account on ignore.
Me either, makes it easier, plus than that person could just keep deleting characters and making new ones just to keep messaging you if he really wanted to. Therefore making your ignore option completely useless and filled up just by trying to ignore one person.
Riahuf22 said:Kellie said:Feyshtey said:If people being annoying in chat quickly got on your ignore list, and so you didn't care, why is it a burden to just add another character to your ignore list?
Well its a problem when ignore lists usually have a limit to them. I dont see why ignore one person should not put their entire account on ignore.
Me either, makes it easier, plus than that person could just keep deleting characters and making new ones just to keep messaging you if he really wanted to. Therefore making your ignore option completely useless and filled up just by trying to ignore one person.
I actually have no problem with this concept. None whatsoever. I just don't think you should be provided an identifier associating all characters for that player.
Riahuf22 said:Me either, makes it easier, plus than that person could just keep deleting characters and making new ones just to keep messaging you if he really wanted to. Therefore making your ignore option completely useless and filled up just by trying to ignore one person.
I actually had this happen in "Warhammer Online" I was one of the raid leaders for our server keeping people grouped up, and I had this one guy that didnt like that I was female and made it clear that he would never listen to a woman and would send me around 60 messages in a few hours span, i ignored him he would make a new character level 1 and continue to do the same, this lasted almost 6 months. Until a GM actually stepped in. It would have been much easier if I could have just added his account to ignore and get on with talking to the other 40-90 people I was trying to lead.
Feyshtey said:Riahuf22 said:Kellie said:Feyshtey said:If people being annoying in chat quickly got on your ignore list, and so you didn't care, why is it a burden to just add another character to your ignore list?
Well its a problem when ignore lists usually have a limit to them. I dont see why ignore one person should not put their entire account on ignore.
Me either, makes it easier, plus than that person could just keep deleting characters and making new ones just to keep messaging you if he really wanted to. Therefore making your ignore option completely useless and filled up just by trying to ignore one person.
I actually have no problem with this concept. None whatsoever. I just don't think you should be provided an identifier associating all characters for that player.
You have rhat right to have that opinion, I wasn't trying to swing you onto my side of the matter, or trying to say you were wrong, and the thing about systems in general in that a ton of people are not going to like it, just like a lot of people are going to like it, and no matter what the system is that will always be the same.
You can say that, but I don't see how I'm taking away any choices, there offline and ignore and everything else to keep you anon, shot in wouldn't doubt if there was even an anon function to hide what zone your in so to keep it harder to track you down, If they even wanted to so again in don't see what choices I'm actually taking away except what the players who use the system incorrectly try to pursue and again you can simply just ignore them like you should and play your game.
Kellie said:I didn't experiance much trolling in ESO and the "bad actors" usually got put on ignore so they never bothered me, hence why I feel we need a global account ignore function more than anything else.
I would be fine with an ignore feature applying to an entire account without informing me what characters are on that account. All I know from my end is the character I wanted to ignore is ignored.
Kellie said:Feyshtey said:Yes, but you're promoting a system that takes away my choices, and my privacy. Whereas I'm promiting the lack of a system, and asking nothing at all from you.
well really, your promiting a lack of a system is also asking to allow greifers an easier time.
You actually came up with a far more elegant solution for that than the one being debated in the thread. And a solution that I already fully agreed with.
When you ignore a character, you effectively ignore all characters on that account. Done. No new system. No new unintended consequences. No loopholes that can be exploited to harm innocent people.
Riahuf22 said:You can say that, but I don't see how I'm taking away any choices, there offline and ignore and everything else to keep you anon, shot in wouldn't doubt if there was even an anon function to hide what zone your in so to keep it harder to track you down, If they even wanted to so again in don't see what choices I'm actually taking away except what the players who use the system incorrectly try to pursue and again you can simply just ignore them like you should and play your game.
What purpose does this system actually serve if you keep conceding all these different features to circumvent it?
Chanus said:Kellie said:I didn't experiance much trolling in ESO and the "bad actors" usually got put on ignore so they never bothered me, hence why I feel we need a global account ignore function more than anything else.I would be fine with an ignore feature applying to an entire account without informing me what characters are on that account. All I know from my end is the character I wanted to ignore is ignored.
thats all im asking for personally. I don't want to be in the situation where I've ignored the same person 10+ times but they just keep coming back with more accounts.
Riahuf22 said:You can say that, but I don't see how I'm taking away any choices, there offline and ignore and everything else to keep you anon, shot in wouldn't doubt if there was even an anon function to hide what zone your in so to keep it harder to track you down, If they even wanted to so again in don't see what choices I'm actually taking away except what the players who use the system incorrectly try to pursue and again you can simply just ignore them like you should and play your game.
If I go offline my ability to interact with people I would choose to interact with while playing an alth is diminished.
Ignore isn't a solution for just wanting some peace for a time without hurting the feelings of friends and family. I don't want to ignore friends and family in total. Or ignore my whole guild. I simply want to play anonymously sometimes.
You are very effectively diminishing my ability to play the way I wish to play, and have proven no significant benefit in doing so. EDIT: Not that cant also be abused to harm innocent people, at any rate.
Chanus said:Riahuf22 said:You can say that, but I don't see how I'm taking away any choices, there offline and ignore and everything else to keep you anon, shot in wouldn't doubt if there was even an anon function to hide what zone your in so to keep it harder to track you down, If they even wanted to so again in don't see what choices I'm actually taking away except what the players who use the system incorrectly try to pursue and again you can simply just ignore them like you should and play your game.
What purpose does this system actually serve if you keep conceding all these different features to circumvent it?
I'm not circumventing it, I'm saying their probably will be features in place alrdy to protect the player as is so the "harm" you people are talking about wouldn't even exsist. Nor would they even be pursued because in the end if they do follow up on any of the situations you guys are talking about it falls underneath harassment and therefore can be reported and punished accordingly. Just like every other game, it's really just that simple and using your head and thinking ahead of what to aspect in a game to protect the player from other players.
Riahuf22 said:Chanus said:Riahuf22 said:You can say that, but I don't see how I'm taking away any choices, there offline and ignore and everything else to keep you anon, shot in wouldn't doubt if there was even an anon function to hide what zone your in so to keep it harder to track you down, If they even wanted to so again in don't see what choices I'm actually taking away except what the players who use the system incorrectly try to pursue and again you can simply just ignore them like you should and play your game.
What purpose does this system actually serve if you keep conceding all these different features to circumvent it?
I'm not circumventing it, I'm saying their probably will be features in place alrdy to protect the player as is so the "harm" you people are talking about wouldn't even exsist. Nor would they even be pursued because in the end if they do follow up on any of the situations you guys are talking about it falls underneath harassment and therefore can be reported and punished accordingly. Just like every other game, it's really just that simple and using your head and thinking ahead of what to aspect in a game to protect the player from other players.
What is the remedy to fix my whole account being blackballed by the community because I pissed off a guild somehow, who then started to spread false accusations about me?
If it's one character of mine then it can be overcome. I could get a new character name. If it's the whole account then you're talking a much greater investement of time and money to recover.
Hell, how do you even identify who is to ultmately be punished for false rumors? It'd never happen.
Riahuf22 said:Chanus said:Riahuf22 said:You can say that, but I don't see how I'm taking away any choices, there offline and ignore and everything else to keep you anon, shot in wouldn't doubt if there was even an anon function to hide what zone your in so to keep it harder to track you down, If they even wanted to so again in don't see what choices I'm actually taking away except what the players who use the system incorrectly try to pursue and again you can simply just ignore them like you should and play your game.
What purpose does this system actually serve if you keep conceding all these different features to circumvent it?
I'm not circumventing it, I'm saying their probably will be features in place alrdy to protect the player as is so the "harm" you people are talking about wouldn't even exsist. Nor would they even be pursued because in the end if they do follow up on any of the situations you guys are talking about it falls underneath harassment and therefore can be reported and punished accordingly. Just like every other game, it's really just that simple and using your head and thinking ahead of what to aspect in a game to protect the player from other players.
You haven't demonstrated a single benefit of this system that doesn't already exist other than the ability to spy on people's alts, which is not an actual benefit.
Why should I have to play offline and ignore people and all their alts and leave my guild just so you can spy on someone's alts?