zoltar said:I think you're blowing the difficulty of managing a guild under this kind of system out of proportion. First off, why would a guild make a rule against something if they would rather be oblivious to someone breaking the rule rather than having to address it? If I don't want players messaging me about someone playing an alt instead of doing X, then don't make it a rule. And if someone tries to start drama because of some trivial crap like a person playing on their alt, then you just tell that player "look man, nothing wrong with playing an alt and we're not going to micro manage people all the time like that". Frankly, I would probably be greatful that this interaction happened because reporting someone for something so trivial reveals something about the snitch's character, i.e. that they're kind of petty/entitled/self-centerd, and that's valuable information. Besides, I feel like the vast majority of players will have their alts in one guild, so this isn't going to make a bit of a difference in those cases.
My point is that I have zero interest in telling people "hey we're not going to micromanage people all the time like that." It basically implies that we do want to micromanage but only on a case by case basis. Normally I would have no issue with that but when it comes to this particular topic, it sounds dreadful and unfair. If someone wants to play an alt and "get away with it" they can do it very easily on an unrelated account. I don't see the point in the system if it can be easily circumvented -- it turns into a situation where I would have to accept that if someone really wanted to go off and have some "me time" that it's always going to be conducted on a separate account. We have accepted that there is literally nothing we can do to truly enforce the "rule" of micromanaging alts, but hey, we're supposed to feel a little better because we can micromanage those who aren't willing to pay for multiple accounts?
I think that's a horrible philosophy because it would encourage folks to create these separate accounts and safeguard them in a way that otherwise wouldn't be necessary. They wouldn't want to be forthcoming with that information because as soon as the "link" is established, their ability to "get away" would be compromised. So now we have a situation where someone might have multiple characters on their "me time" account ... and that same player may even have a desire to occasionally play one or more of those characters to help out their main guild, but ponying up to actually do that would come at the cost of no longer having a place they can escape to. It's just bad in so many ways.
zoltar said:However, if I'm in a guild that has a rule against playing in multiple guilds, then yeah I want to know if people are breaking the rule. If we decide to make it a rule, then there's an important reason for it, and letting fear of drama prevent you from managing an important aspect of your guild is a sign of weak leadership. Now, in practice what I would do is make the rule that you can't have characters in other guilds *without approval from the leadership. If somebody wants to put an alt in a small RP guild and goof around every now and then, then there's no problem there. However, if some mid-level member of my guild turns out to be an alt of max-level character in a guild that we are competing against... um, yea there's a problem there and the drama in this case is 100% necessary. Burying your head in the sand to ignore important issues for the sake of "avoiding drama" and calling that "trust" is crazy IMO.
That kind of rule is generally only (loosely) enforced in highly competitive guilds, and there is absolutely an important reason for that. I agree with you. At the same time, we have already accepted that there is nothing we can do to stop players from doing it. It's time to move on from the idea that this system actually solves the issues you keep bloviating about. We have discussed this very important realization multiple times now and we have come to an impasse. You think it's okay to turn a blind eye to those who are willing/able to fund multiple accounts (you have no choice really) because you find some degree of solace in knowing that they have to pay money in order to do it.
The bottom line for me is that the cons outweigh the pros in a pretty massive way. No real issue is being solved but a variety of other issues are being created. You can cite "weak leadership" or "fake communities" or "bad guilds" for days -- the reality is that many guilds have been managed the "old way" for decades and it worked out just fine. I have never been damaged in a way that would make me want to consider this level of tracking and monitoring as acceptable. If that makes me bad or weak ... hey, we all get an opinion. I'm comfortable with the idea that players can have some "me time" without having to pay for a separate account. It's a total non-issue for me.
Feyshtey said:If I go offline my ability to interact with people I would choose to interact with while playing an alth is diminished.
Ignore isn't a solution for just wanting some peace for a time without hurting the feelings of friends and family. I don't want to ignore friends and family in total. Or ignore my whole guild. I simply want to play anonymously sometimes.
You are very effectively diminishing my ability to play the way I wish to play, and have proven no significant benefit in doing so. EDIT: Not that cant also be abused to harm innocent people, at any rate.
Precisely. Let's create a system that is supposed to solve an issue ... realize that it can't be accomplished, accept that, but still proceed with it anyway ... knowing that there are new problems being created. In other words ... let's create issues instead of solving them. To expand on one of your previous statements where you said it would be pointless, I'm convinced that it's worse than pointless. It's damaging.
Kellie said:Chanus said:Kellie said:I didn't experiance much trolling in ESO and the "bad actors" usually got put on ignore so they never bothered me, hence why I feel we need a global account ignore function more than anything else.I would be fine with an ignore feature applying to an entire account without informing me what characters are on that account. All I know from my end is the character I wanted to ignore is ignored.
thats all im asking for personally. I don't want to be in the situation where I've ignored the same person 10+ times but they just keep coming back with more accounts.
I probably would've reported this doofus twice, with the original character and after the first alt started spamming. To me, though, this is a rather extreme example. These people do exist, but they aren't the majority or norm by any means. For these instances, I could support /ignore [Doofus account], but only after /ignore [Doofus] didn't work. You don't need to actually see the account name or tag, the system would know. Advocating for account knowledge in an effort to insulate ourselves from any kind of grief is unrealistic simply because humans are involved.
Edit: Couple other thoughts I just had. Seeing the account name might make some think, 'Oh, that's the best cleric I ever grouped with, /invite ranger alt.' Maybe, maybe not. Visible account info might be a bit misleading. IMHO, characters should be evaluated on a per-character basis. Just because that person is awesome on a cleric, they may not be on a ranger. The reverse could also be true. Just because someone sucked on a cleric, it doesn't mean their ranger sucks.
Another problem with visible account info, you can't really guarantee that it's the same person who was such a tool you grouped with yesterday. Many families share an account. Kids have a character on their parents account pretty frequently.
I wasn;t gonna post on this anymore but....
The problem with an account wide /ignore for all the characters can be seen in this example.
Say you have a guild member who you like to group with or raid with, yet they have a kid that plays also on their acccount on a different character. They are annoying and always begs etc so you /ignore them. Do you want to automatically ignore your other firend just because their kid is annoying? I'd think not.
Aich said:I wasn;t gonna post on this anymore but....
The problem with an account wide /ignore for all the characters can be seen in this example.
Say you have a guild member who you like to group with or raid with, yet they have a kid that plays also on their acccount on a different character. They are annoying and always begs etc so you /ignore them. Do you want to automatically ignore your other firend just because their kid is annoying? I'd think not.
Obviously you report them for account sharing :P
Aich said:I wasn;t gonna post on this anymore but....
The problem with an account wide /ignore for all the characters can be seen in this example.
Say you have a guild member who you like to group with or raid with, yet they have a kid that plays also on their acccount on a different character. They are annoying and always begs etc so you /ignore them. Do you want to automatically ignore your other firend just because their kid is annoying? I'd think not.
Not to poo poo, but most T&C forbid account sharing obviously its hard to prove but you do agree to these T&C when accepting them. Not saying pantheon has them or will have them though they may be fine with account sharing. Just most MMORPGs dont allow any kind of account sharing even between family members.
this is easily solved though by having /ignoreaccount "name" and /ignore "name"
Chanus said:Aich said:I wasn;t gonna post on this anymore but....
The problem with an account wide /ignore for all the characters can be seen in this example.
Say you have a guild member who you like to group with or raid with, yet they have a kid that plays also on their acccount on a different character. They are annoying and always begs etc so you /ignore them. Do you want to automatically ignore your other firend just because their kid is annoying? I'd think not.
Obviously you report them for account sharing :P
if you are on a pvp server you can just camp them :D
Kellie said:Aich said:I wasn;t gonna post on this anymore but....
The problem with an account wide /ignore for all the characters can be seen in this example.
Say you have a guild member who you like to group with or raid with, yet they have a kid that plays also on their acccount on a different character. They are annoying and always begs etc so you /ignore them. Do you want to automatically ignore your other firend just because their kid is annoying? I'd think not.
Not to poo poo, but most T&C forbid account sharing obviously its hard to prove but you do agree to these T&C when accepting them. Not saying pantheon has them or will have them though they may be fine with account sharing. Just most MMORPGs dont allow any kind of account sharing even between family members.
this is easily solved though by having /ignoreaccount "name" and /ignore "name"
the ignore account is probably the most sound solution out of the bunch. you protect privacy of those that want a disassociation of account and character without directly targeting the user for further harassment.
Kellie said:Aich said:I wasn;t gonna post on this anymore but....
The problem with an account wide /ignore for all the characters can be seen in this example.
Say you have a guild member who you like to group with or raid with, yet they have a kid that plays also on their acccount on a different character. They are annoying and always begs etc so you /ignore them. Do you want to automatically ignore your other firend just because their kid is annoying? I'd think not.
Not to poo poo, but most T&C forbid account sharing obviously its hard to prove but you do agree to these T&C when accepting them. Not saying pantheon has them or will have them though they may be fine with account sharing. Just most MMORPGs dont allow any kind of account sharing even between family members.
lol ok
Aich said:Kellie said:Aich said:I wasn;t gonna post on this anymore but....
The problem with an account wide /ignore for all the characters can be seen in this example.
Say you have a guild member who you like to group with or raid with, yet they have a kid that plays also on their acccount on a different character. They are annoying and always begs etc so you /ignore them. Do you want to automatically ignore your other firend just because their kid is annoying? I'd think not.
Not to poo poo, but most T&C forbid account sharing obviously its hard to prove but you do agree to these T&C when accepting them. Not saying pantheon has them or will have them though they may be fine with account sharing. Just most MMORPGs dont allow any kind of account sharing even between family members.
lol ok
While it is true that people rampantly ignore account sharing prohibitions, it does make it unlikely any feature being developed would be done so with concessions to account sharing in mind.
I don't see how /ignoreaccount will stop people from trolling you lol, lets just show everyones IP. That should be fun.
Aich said:I don't see how /ignoreaccount will stop people from trolling you lol
It helps stop harassment without needing a GM to step in, letting the GMs focus on things that can't be handled by player control. It wont stop some one from training/forcing camps, but ignoring their account with enough people will isolate that player from the wider community.
oneADseven said:Feyshtey said:If I go offline my ability to interact with people I would choose to interact with while playing an alth is diminished.
Ignore isn't a solution for just wanting some peace for a time without hurting the feelings of friends and family. I don't want to ignore friends and family in total. Or ignore my whole guild. I simply want to play anonymously sometimes.
You are very effectively diminishing my ability to play the way I wish to play, and have proven no significant benefit in doing so. EDIT: Not that cant also be abused to harm innocent people, at any rate.
Precisely. Let's create a system that is supposed to solve an issue ... realize that it can't be accomplished, accept that, but still proceed with it anyway ... knowing that there are new problems being created. In other words ... let's create issues instead of solving them. To expand on one of your previous statements where you said it would be pointless, I'm convinced that it's worse than pointless. It's damaging.
But yet you guys still use discord, facebook, and attach all your account to one or 2 email and than complain how you can't get away from your community you have in those programs smh
Aich said:I don't see how /ignoreaccount will stop people from trolling you lol, lets just show everyones IP. That should be fun.
ignoreaccount just gives pvers a way to not associate with the person in the future. it's better than having your pants down for everyone to see at anytime. having a private mode is really essentially the same as an ignoreall. well it really doesn't matter to me i just like hearing pvers go at it with this subject.
i seriously think some people complaining about not having proper ways to punish bad behaviour that are super zealous should just play on a pvp server. then you can handle the situation within your own means.
stellarmind said:Aich said:I don't see how /ignoreaccount will stop people from trolling you lol, lets just show everyones IP. That should be fun.
ignoreaccount just gives pvers a way to not associate with the person in the future. it's better than having your pants down for everyone to see at anytime. having a private mode is really essentially the same as an ignoreall. well it really doesn't matter to me i just like hearing pvers go at it with this subject.
i seriously think some people complaining about not having proper ways to punish bad behaviour that are super zealous should just play on a pvp server. then you can handle the situation within your own means.
I totally agree lol, plus I'm getting post count up :P I hardly ever ignore people, I want to see the whole conversation. I just dont want accoutname visible or seeing it in chat like soso@account1234 says: bla bla. If they want a /ignoreaccount then w/e
Riahuf22 said:oneADseven said:Feyshtey said:If I go offline my ability to interact with people I would choose to interact with while playing an alth is diminished.
Ignore isn't a solution for just wanting some peace for a time without hurting the feelings of friends and family. I don't want to ignore friends and family in total. Or ignore my whole guild. I simply want to play anonymously sometimes.
You are very effectively diminishing my ability to play the way I wish to play, and have proven no significant benefit in doing so. EDIT: Not that cant also be abused to harm innocent people, at any rate.
Precisely. Let's create a system that is supposed to solve an issue ... realize that it can't be accomplished, accept that, but still proceed with it anyway ... knowing that there are new problems being created. In other words ... let's create issues instead of solving them. To expand on one of your previous statements where you said it would be pointless, I'm convinced that it's worse than pointless. It's damaging.
But yet you guys still use discord, facebook, and attach all your account to one or 2 email and than complain how you can't get away from your community you have in those programs smh
No. I don't. My public persona is completely divorced from any active games I'm playing.
And while I do have most (but not all) of those services, I don't leave them online, I don't attach my phone to them, and I very rarely post anything personal on them. My business is just that. My business. I feel no need to advertise my life.
Aich said:stellarmind said:Aich said:I don't see how /ignoreaccount will stop people from trolling you lol, lets just show everyones IP. That should be fun.
ignoreaccount just gives pvers a way to not associate with the person in the future. it's better than having your pants down for everyone to see at anytime. having a private mode is really essentially the same as an ignoreall. well it really doesn't matter to me i just like hearing pvers go at it with this subject.
i seriously think some people complaining about not having proper ways to punish bad behaviour that are super zealous should just play on a pvp server. then you can handle the situation within your own means.
I totally agree lol, plus I'm getting post count up :P I hardly ever ignore people, I want to see the whole conversation. I just dont want accoutname visible or seeing it in chat like soso@account1234 says: bla bla. If they want a /ignoreaccount then w/e
i think what kellie means is you do /ignoreaccount "Ruffrider" and it'll ignore the account associated with character. i would get a confirmation similar to: you are now ignoring account pertaining to Ruffrider. i won't get any information of the account, but i've effectively disassociated myself from communicating with the user.
stellarmind said:
i think what kellie means is you do /ignoreaccount "Ruffrider" and it'll ignore the account associated with character. i would get a confirmation similar to: you are now ignoring account pertaining to Ruffrider. i won't get any information of the account, but i've effectively disassociated myself from communicating with the user.
yep, spot on. I dont mean anything showing account name just that you can block the account.
Kellie said:stellarmind said:
i think what kellie means is you do /ignoreaccount "Ruffrider" and it'll ignore the account associated with character. i would get a confirmation similar to: you are now ignoring account pertaining to Ruffrider. i won't get any information of the account, but i've effectively disassociated myself from communicating with the user.yep, spot on. I dont mean anything showing account name just that you can block the account.
Can we get a /unignoreall, I'd like to try out using /ignoreaccount on everyone I see and make the whole server muted.
Aich said:Kellie said:stellarmind said:
i think what kellie means is you do /ignoreaccount "Ruffrider" and it'll ignore the account associated with character. i would get a confirmation similar to: you are now ignoring account pertaining to Ruffrider. i won't get any information of the account, but i've effectively disassociated myself from communicating with the user.yep, spot on. I dont mean anything showing account name just that you can block the account.
Can we get a /unignoreall, I'd like to try out using /ignoreaccount on everyone I see and make the whole server muted.
that reminds me of a post i saw in wow about a player wanting to expand the ignore list from 500 to 1000 a while back... wotlk days? i don't remember the exact numbers, anyways, when you have to ignore that many people, the problem isn't the people or the system... it's probably the player. needless to say, the individual was triggered, apparently was connected to some blizzard employees and got people banned from the forums. vr appears to be pretty open minded (maybe they don't have enough people to curate or the forum population is small) so far on the forums.
stellarmind said:Aich said:Kellie said:stellarmind said:
i think what kellie means is you do /ignoreaccount "Ruffrider" and it'll ignore the account associated with character. i would get a confirmation similar to: you are now ignoring account pertaining to Ruffrider. i won't get any information of the account, but i've effectively disassociated myself from communicating with the user.yep, spot on. I dont mean anything showing account name just that you can block the account.
Can we get a /unignoreall, I'd like to try out using /ignoreaccount on everyone I see and make the whole server muted.
that reminds me of a post i saw in wow about a player wanting to expand the ignore list from 500 to 1000 a while back... wotlk days? i don't remember the exact numbers, anyways, when you have to ignore that many people, the problem isn't the people or the system... it's probably the player. needless to say, the individual was triggered, apparently was connected to some blizzard employees and got people banned from the forums. vr appears to be pretty open minded (maybe they don't have enough people to curate or the forum population is small) so far on the forums.
I was joking lol, imagine a muted server.
Aich said:stellarmind said:Aich said:Kellie said:stellarmind said:
i think what kellie means is you do /ignoreaccount "Ruffrider" and it'll ignore the account associated with character. i would get a confirmation similar to: you are now ignoring account pertaining to Ruffrider. i won't get any information of the account, but i've effectively disassociated myself from communicating with the user.yep, spot on. I dont mean anything showing account name just that you can block the account.
Can we get a /unignoreall, I'd like to try out using /ignoreaccount on everyone I see and make the whole server muted.
that reminds me of a post i saw in wow about a player wanting to expand the ignore list from 500 to 1000 a while back... wotlk days? i don't remember the exact numbers, anyways, when you have to ignore that many people, the problem isn't the people or the system... it's probably the player. needless to say, the individual was triggered, apparently was connected to some blizzard employees and got people banned from the forums. vr appears to be pretty open minded (maybe they don't have enough people to curate or the forum population is small) so far on the forums.
I was joking lol, imagine a muted server.
oh sorry i use to be keen on dry humour, until i worked at *redacted* back in *redacted*. ever since then, i've just taking everything literally and i'm afraid of *redacted*.
Adding my 2cp in case the devs are keeping a count on this. I don't like accounts being linked to your name. I like each character/name being individual of each other. I request that a 'notes' area is put in the guild UI so we can write in "Alt of Soandso" if we choose. Maybe even in the character's personal bio that can be seen when /inspected. Please don't take the choice of privacy away from the players.
