Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Mount speed and mount variations

    • 233 posts
    March 27, 2019 1:20 AM PDT

    Hello all i was just thinking about mounts and how much a love collecting them.

     

    Ground mounts in WoW in my opinion are great in terms of speed to map size ratio, 100% speed.
    Also they have hundreds of variations of mounts, even if some are abit lore breaking and stupid.

    Lotro however the mounts (excluding warsteeds) are only 78% speed with map twice as big as wow.

    Plus only 3 variations, horse, ram and elk.
    I suggested in the forums that Auroch and baby oliphants would be cool mount ideas, but the community went mad saying the breaks the lore.

    The aurochs dont as theyre clearly tamed animals in the game, oliphants are considerd evil but thats why i mentioned a baby one as a mount.
    prehaps add a little quest chain to kill oliphants and the reward is an uncorrupted one.

    As a baby oliphant is an availible ingame pet...so the lore is already broken to pieces, but people are silly.

    The mounts are too slow in lotro also and while its nice to admire the scenery, aftr many years you just want to get to where you're going.

    What would your ideal mount speed to map size ratio? and what cool mount variations would you like to see.


    This post was edited by Grimseethe at March 27, 2019 1:22 AM PDT
    • 413 posts
    March 27, 2019 2:38 AM PDT

    Maybe mounts far off in the future after level 70 something.  Maybe just an auto-run feature would be nice.  Mounts seem more like gimics now-a-days to get you buy stuff from in-game stores.

     

    • 35 posts
    March 27, 2019 2:53 AM PDT

    I agree that the mount speed of classic WoW was on point. Getting the first 70 % was a big difference and the 100 % one was a long-term goal for you to achieve, since it was very expensive.

    But it all comes down to map size, the world should not feel significantly smaller because of your mount. I guess the best way would be to try different speeds on a test server (mounts will be post launch after all).

    What kind of mounts then? As long as they fit the world/lore I'm not that picky. No rainbow unicorns please. What's more important are animations - the same goes for character movement - graphics come second. The latest Zelda game made beautiful horse animations which of course were expensive but well worth it in my opinion.
    If we go back to WoW, the flying mounts' animations always bothered me because the wings flapping the way they do, would make the animal move backwards.
    So to summarize: look at nature and mimic it.


    This post was edited by Avalon at March 27, 2019 2:55 AM PDT
    • 808 posts
    March 27, 2019 4:41 AM PDT

    I don't really want to see people running all around on goofy looking mounts. Keep the options limited, even within lore, and keep them out of cities.

    • 28 posts
    March 27, 2019 4:56 AM PDT

    Mounts are a very import aspect of MMORPGs for many gamers.  Personally I didn't care much about them.  I'd buy something decent looking that got me around fast.  I do think that the horse rentals that went between points in DAOC was a huge improvement over EQ in terms of travel.  It just made sense to have some kind of point to point shuttle on a local scale.  As well as things like zepplins, boats and portals - all of varying costs.

    But knowing that the original poster and many others finds them important and I encourage the design team in developing things that others find valueable.  People play and get enjoyment from MMORPGs in a variety of ways.

    Mal

    • 1247 posts
    March 27, 2019 6:33 AM PDT

    I think boats, rafts, gate, and ports make sense. Some classes with speed enhancement abilities make sense. I do not want too see everyone running around on silly mounts where everyone has the same boosted speed. 

    #communitymatters #makenightmatteragain #riskvsreward 


    This post was edited by Syrif at March 27, 2019 7:35 AM PDT
    • 239 posts
    March 27, 2019 6:41 AM PDT
    Recently playing ESO, they do the mount collection that I can kind of get into. Different painted horses you can keep at a stable at your home. Everyone get same speed and you can buy upgrades to make any mount you own faster. Decent money sink in the game, can also upgrade carrying capacity on the mounts the same way.
    Easy to say I hope to only see horse mounts but not sure all races would ride horses. I do not want to see lions, and magical beast, or anything like that.
    I would also hope to see very very few mounts. They should be a prestigious item, not a travel bonus item that anyone can get. I want them only available for huge sums of money or ridiculous quest that only some are willing to waste their time doing.
    • 124 posts
    March 27, 2019 6:47 AM PDT

    I'm more leaning towards mounts than not to, but that is only because i mostly played classes previously that didn't have any speed buffs.

    Speed buffs, clicky's and the likes are great if you have them or are fairly accesible. The way EQ2 used the local mounts and flight plaths was awesome, as you didn't actually need a mount. That would be a viable option too.

    All in all, i think speed buffs should be available, but mounts should only be used out doors, if even implemented.

    • 1247 posts
    March 27, 2019 7:14 AM PDT

    SoWplz said: They should be a prestigious item, not a travel bonus item that anyone can get.

    I agree with this. If mounts are in game, then it can be a prestige. Not a travel bonus item where we see everyone on mounts with everyone having boosted speed. 


    This post was edited by Syrif at March 27, 2019 7:15 AM PDT
    • 2419 posts
    March 27, 2019 7:22 AM PDT

    SoWplz said:They should be a prestigious item, not a travel bonus item that anyone can get. I want them only available for huge sums of money or ridiculous quest that only some are willing to waste their time doing.

    Whenever someone makes a statement like yours I think back to CCP Games and what they said when Titans were introduced in EVE Online.  CCP said that because the material costs and build requirements were so exorbitant that there would only ever be a few of them in existance.  In less than a year over 100 titans were built.  And now, years later there are many thousands of them.  The lesson here is that over time, even stupidly rare, stupidly expensive items will become commonplace. So once mounts are seen to be necessary, the vast majority of the playerbase will take the time to get one.

    • 1247 posts
    March 27, 2019 7:26 AM PDT

    @Vandraad that is true too (regarding commonplace). 

    • 697 posts
    March 27, 2019 7:38 AM PDT

    If mounts are used like jboots were used in EQ, then I don't care. It is when mounts make speed buff irrelevant that I find a problem. Also, flying mounts usually kill games. The WoW classic community pretty much hate what flying mounts became. That is why each expansion the devs made you do an achievement line in order to get flying access in that zone so everyone didn't just blow by the content they created. Ground mounts are fine if done properly...but flying mounts shouldn't be a thing at all. The moment flying mounts go into the game is the moment they kill off a lot of their world. Same with gates or fast travel hubs like POK.

    • 515 posts
    March 27, 2019 7:39 AM PDT

    Syrif said:

    SoWplz said: They should be a prestigious item, not a travel bonus item that anyone can get.

    I agree with this. If mounts are in game, then it can be a prestige. Not a travel bonus item where we see everyone on mounts with everyone having boosted speed. 

    Just trying to verify your opinion here.  You are OK with some folks having a spell or racial trait that gives them a run speed advantage, but NOT ok with someone having a horse that gives them a run speed advantage?

    • 697 posts
    March 27, 2019 7:41 AM PDT

    Nephretiti said:

    Syrif said:

    SoWplz said: They should be a prestigious item, not a travel bonus item that anyone can get.

    I agree with this. If mounts are in game, then it can be a prestige. Not a travel bonus item where we see everyone on mounts with everyone having boosted speed. 

    Just trying to verify your opinion here.  You are OK with some folks having a spell or racial trait that gives them a run speed advantage, but NOT ok with someone having a horse that gives them a run speed advantage?

     

    Are you okay with some people having pets and others not having pets? Are you okay with some people having clarity(mana regen) buffs and others not having that advantage? I could go on but you get the point I assume?


    This post was edited by Watemper at March 27, 2019 7:41 AM PDT
    • 1247 posts
    March 27, 2019 7:45 AM PDT

    @Neph  I am ok with some classes having speed buffs available to themselves and other players (via buff). And I am ok with some classes having self-only speed enhancement. I am also ok with players having mounts (a prestige), so long as they do not interfere with speed buffs. Mounts would not be used for speed, nor would they be allowed in dungeons, cities etc. Perhaps they could be shown off at player events and be ridden in outdoor zones. Mount is not a ‘speed buff.’


    This post was edited by Syrif at March 27, 2019 8:08 AM PDT
    • 627 posts
    March 27, 2019 8:07 AM PDT
    Yes please to mounts, but keep them in the fantasy settings and keep the speed buff within reson.
    • 1785 posts
    March 27, 2019 8:21 AM PDT

    I posted this in the travel time thread - my full thoughts are on page 4 - but it seems appropriate to repost part of it here as well.  Here's how I think I would do mounts if it were up to me:

     

    1) Different primary mount types by continent - Kingsreach might have traditional horses, Reignfall giant lizards, etc.

    2) Mounts take an involved, epic-style quest to initially obtain - because they are rare and special.  Replacement mounts (if you lost your first one) would cost a lot of money.

    3) Mounts would have hit points and armor values and can be killed.  NPCs in overworld zones would have an AI layer where they would likely attack the mount if they encounter a mounted adventurer.

    4) Mounts have a base speed bonus roughly equivalent to first-tier speed buffs.  Mounts also have endurance and can sprint/gallop for short periods of time, but expend that endurance by trotting or galloping.  If your mount ran completely out of endurance, it would need to walk or rest for a while (and be fed) in order to recover.  Players have a riding skill that slightly influences the speed and rate of endurance drain.

    5) Mounts gain experience over time (very slowly) as they are ridden and can gain levels.  When a mount gains a level, it gains potential that can be directed to either endurance, hit points, or carrying capacity through training.

    6) Mounts have carrying capacity which can be used for either saddlebags (bag space) or for armor.  The player gets to decide what ratio of bag space to armor they want but there is always the trade-off.  Players who routinely ride their mounts off the beaten path may want the armor to make it less likely that their mount will be killed and eaten by monsters.  Players who tend to stick to the normally-safe roads could potentially go with less armor and allow their mount to carry more.

    • 1033 posts
    March 27, 2019 8:23 AM PDT

    Nephretiti said:

    Syrif said:

    SoWplz said: They should be a prestigious item, not a travel bonus item that anyone can get.

    I agree with this. If mounts are in game, then it can be a prestige. Not a travel bonus item where we see everyone on mounts with everyone having boosted speed. 

    Just trying to verify your opinion here.  You are OK with some folks having a spell or racial trait that gives them a run speed advantage, but NOT ok with someone having a horse that gives them a run speed advantage?

    Yep, perfectly ok, in fact I prefer each class having unique abilties and functions which may give them an advantage over another in that focus or ability. After all, that is the concept of class interdependence (it is even the point of race selection), choice and consquence and indvidual uniqueness in selection. Items or rewards that normalize this (ie everyone gets the same reward) defeats this concept in group play reliance. 


    This post was edited by Tanix at March 27, 2019 8:24 AM PDT
    • 3852 posts
    March 27, 2019 8:23 AM PDT

    Sorry OP as a long-term LOTRO player (although when Pantheon releases I will be out of there so fast I will get friction burns on my fingers from the speed of uninstalling) I can't resist a correction.

    There are *no* ram mounts in the game. 

    Too much wool-gathering I suppose, as you may come to sheepishly admit. LOTRO has goats.

    1. I have no problem with "prestige" mounts. A classic example would be some or all classes getting personal mounts as they hit maximum level or complete an epic class quest at high level. Thus, a paladin gets a class mount in EQ2 (or did quite a few years ago) befitting his or her status as a holy warrior of a God. Change this to getting a mount much later in the game as a reward for high level or great accomplishment and I think it works fine - in EQ2 the mount came far too early and with no need to do anything to earn it. 

    2. In a game with no in-game store I see no need for a huge assortment of different types of mounts in a dizzying and lore-breaking cacophony. Let us have some horses with anything else based on well established lore for a particular area. I do not in the slightest object to some different racial mounts - the whole idea of different areas of Terminus coming from different places almost cries out for it. Why should the entire multiverse ride *horses* - makes no sense at all.

    3. I am less bothered than some of us by the idea of mounts being faster than normal walking speed - that is the whole *purpose* of a mount, we didn't tame horses as pets we tamed them to increase speed and allow heavier weights to be pulled or carried. Same for elephants of course (Asian elephants not African elephants).  If you cannot get a mount until at or near maximum level I doubt if it will harm the game dynamics as much as some of us fear. Though I don't look forward to my low level harvesters having to beat high levels on mounts to the nodes.

    But on balance I somewhat reluctantly agree with those that do not want mounts to be faster than class speed buffs. As Tanix said recently in another thread - I have to go with gameplay considerations here over logic and realism. Sooner or later (hopefully later) a lot of us *will* be at maximum level especially if there is a lot of horizontal progression built in. If we all have *fast* mounts the class speed buffs will be useless except to buff lower levels. 

    • 1247 posts
    March 27, 2019 8:39 AM PDT

    Tanix said:

    Nephretiti said:

    Syrif said:

    SoWplz said: They should be a prestigious item, not a travel bonus item that anyone can get.

    I agree with this. If mounts are in game, then it can be a prestige. Not a travel bonus item where we see everyone on mounts with everyone having boosted speed. 

    Just trying to verify your opinion here.  You are OK with some folks having a spell or racial trait that gives them a run speed advantage, but NOT ok with someone having a horse that gives them a run speed advantage?

    Yep, perfectly ok, in fact I prefer each class having unique abilties and functions which may give them an advantage over another in that focus or ability. After all, that is the concept of class interdependence (it is even the point of race selection), choice and consquence and indvidual uniqueness in selection. Items or rewards that normalize this (ie everyone gets the same reward) defeats this concept in group play reliance. 

    Yep, exactly. Some classes in Pantheon already have speed buffs and enhancements. Giving mounts ‘speed boost’ further defeats the purpose of class interdependence (what much of this game is based on). That’s what a few people on the forums fail too see. Nice thoughts Tanix. Anyway, mounts for prestige is ok, but no to mounts taking the place of speed buffs in any tier. 


    This post was edited by Syrif at March 27, 2019 8:45 AM PDT
    • 230 posts
    March 27, 2019 8:41 AM PDT

    Watemper said:

    Nephretiti said:

    Syrif said:

    SoWplz said: They should be a prestigious item, not a travel bonus item that anyone can get.

    I agree with this. If mounts are in game, then it can be a prestige. Not a travel bonus item where we see everyone on mounts with everyone having boosted speed. 

    Just trying to verify your opinion here.  You are OK with some folks having a spell or racial trait that gives them a run speed advantage, but NOT ok with someone having a horse that gives them a run speed advantage?

     

    Are you okay with some people having pets and others not having pets? Are you okay with some people having clarity(mana regen) buffs and others not having that advantage? I could go on but you get the point I assume?

     

     not really a good comparison as people who have pets (and I'm assuming your talking like elementals and the fox) is to give them abilities to compliment their class as compared with the classes that don't need them.

     So in this case;

    pets are to their approriate class 

    as 

    horses are to folks who need them because they don't have speed buff available.

     

    • 697 posts
    March 27, 2019 8:45 AM PDT

    DracoKalen said:

    Watemper said:

    Nephretiti said:

    Syrif said:

    SoWplz said: They should be a prestigious item, not a travel bonus item that anyone can get.

    I agree with this. If mounts are in game, then it can be a prestige. Not a travel bonus item where we see everyone on mounts with everyone having boosted speed. 

    Just trying to verify your opinion here.  You are OK with some folks having a spell or racial trait that gives them a run speed advantage, but NOT ok with someone having a horse that gives them a run speed advantage?

     

    Are you okay with some people having pets and others not having pets? Are you okay with some people having clarity(mana regen) buffs and others not having that advantage? I could go on but you get the point I assume?

     

     not really a good comparison as people who have pets (and I'm assuming your talking like elementals and the fox) is to give them abilities to compliment their class as compared with the classes that don't need them.

     So in this case;

    pets are to their approriate class 

    as 

    horses are to folks who need them because they don't have speed buff available.

     

     

    Whaaaaaattt...are you saying I can't magically tame a dragon as a pet...sounds ridiculous. I would want my Tank to have a pet.

    • 6 posts
    March 27, 2019 8:50 AM PDT
    I might be alone here but I don’t want to see too many different types of mounts or reskins of mounts. I’d rather see a few more rare hard to get mounts and your basic lot that anyone can choose from. IMO.
    • 627 posts
    March 27, 2019 8:56 AM PDT
    It would be cool if each race had their own flavor of mounts.

    Scar - Raptors or hyena
    Ogre - Bears
    Archai - wolf's
    Gnome - some mekanic robotter
    Human - warhorse
    Elf - dear or elk
    Halfling - Fox
    Dark myr - turtle or lizard creature
    Dwarf - Ram
    • 1247 posts
    March 27, 2019 9:02 AM PDT

    BamBam said: It would be cool if each race had their own flavor of mounts. Scar - Raptors or hyena Ogre - Bears Archai - wolf's Gnome - some mekanic robotter Human - warhorse Elf - dear or elk Halfling - Fox Dark myr - turtle or lizard creature Dwarf - Ram

    Too WoWish for my taste.