Venjenz said:Syrif said:Snrub- I have yet to see someone who wants a 100% EQ clone. Have you? Anyway, I would wager a lot of people miss the depth and challenge that is lacking in the mmo market such as a naked corpse runs. I LOVE and miss that type of a game :)
I'll say it. I want a 100% clone of EQ1 as it stood when Velious was the most current xpac. By clone I do not mean exact same geography, lore, mythos, etc, but the mechanics. All of the mechancis, just as they were, in 2000. Toss in new graphics, new zones, new dungeons, etc. But the naked corpse run, the exp loss, the boat ride, the EC Tunnel trade hub, all of it? Abso-freaking-lutely.
I play p1999 on Velious blue right now, and I do so for a reason. It's as good as MMO gaming gets, even with a 7 years old server that is mature to the point of insanity. It's still the best gaming MMOs have to offer. Last night I ran to three zones LFG, had my tag up, asked LFG in my guild chat, and it took 2 hours of solid leg work to get a group. Okie doke. I died to a 45 sec AFK because some idiot ran a train over me. Okie doke. I died because two of my group members were afk all the time. Lost a quarter of a level and got no rezz. OKIE DOKE!
Here's the bottom line of all these QoL discussions - no matter what VR does at this point, a sizable chunk of the people who want to play Pantheon will not like it at all and will ed up not playin for long. What VR needs to do is figure out who represents the largest population and make the game that population likes and has been asking for. If it is people who never played EQ and need WoW era QoL stuff, then make that game. If it is the old school EQ1 hardcores like me, then make that game. Either way they go, they are losing a chunk of the fanbase because it is glaringly clear that we are a population divided on this issue, will never see eye to eye, and want the game we want.
If they make a QoL casual friendly game, my money got flushed down a drain because I won't play it. No worries, I have a job and there are other games. Like I said, I get my old school fix right now just fine, for free. Again, they need to do detailed polling to gauge where their fanbase is right now, and they better placate the majority, since losing players is inevitable at this point.
I do think some time sinks are dumb, like getting the stupid item from Swamp of no Hope for the veeshan key. Those are really dumb to me. I have seen some posts for certain type of death penalties that have made me move slightly in a less punishable manner, but still pretty bad. I don't like auction houses either. I do like the tunnel, but VR has stated regional auction houses will probably be a thing, which is better than a Global AH that ruins a lot of things. Still with an AH you will definately have people buy out one certain thing and control markets, but what can you do with that other than not buy from them. The more of what I see VR moving towards the more things I see being implemented that I don't like, but considering all MMOs I see and play they have more things I like than other MMOs. I just hope they don't water the game down too much. But I can forsee this game not really being an immersive game, but a fun one nonetheless.
I love quote wars. Y'all know you can just post a response and don't have to requote everything 80 times, right? Just put an @player_name in your reply so they know you are talking at them.
I am not adding anything to the conversation. Just noting the absurdity of the quotes.
Watemper said:I do think some time sinks are dumb, like getting the stupid item from Swamp of no Hope for the veeshan key. Those are really dumb to me.
Addressing this specifically, that is a Kunark raid zone that has items that are still on par with the best Velious raid drops and epic quests. While timesink-y, I did every single piece of that key solo or single grouped, minus the Trakanon tooth, on 4 different characters. Yep, timesink. What do you think gearing a guild to be able to get past Aaryonar is, if not a time sink? What is getting the final Coldain ring in order to have a junk buff, if not a massive time sink? Comparatively, the VP key is kinda lukewarm on the EQ list of epic grindy-ness. Even in the Velious era, that zone mattered.
Only necro focus item through the Verlious era? Check. Most OP cleric item in the game? Check. 3rd best monk weapon in the entire game? Check. And not for nothing, but it is an awesome proving ground before even attempting the Aaryonar fight to try and take on NToV. A key that is 9/10th soloable and requires one raid kill per 2-4 keys is not much to ask.
Venjenz said:Watemper said:I do think some time sinks are dumb, like getting the stupid item from Swamp of no Hope for the veeshan key. Those are really dumb to me.
Addressing this specifically, that is a Kunark raid zone that has items that are still on par with the best Velious raid drops and epic quests. While timesink-y, I did every single piece of that key solo or single grouped, minus the Trakanon tooth, on 4 different characters. Yep, timesink. What do you think gearing a guild to be able to get past Aaryonar is, if not a time sink? What is getting the final Coldain ring in order to have a junk buff, if not a massive time sink? Comparatively, the VP key is kinda lukewarm on the EQ list of epic grindy-ness. Even in the Velious era, that zone mattered.
Only necro focus item through the Verlious era? Check. Most OP cleric item in the game? Check. 3rd best monk weapon in the entire game? Check. And not for nothing, but it is an awesome proving ground before even attempting the Aaryonar fight to try and take on NToV. A key that is 9/10th soloable and requires one raid kill per 2-4 keys is not much to ask.
I think the time required to do these examples specifically were appropriate for the level of reward obtained.
What I would like to see changed is the number of steps it takes. Rather than have to sit on a mob for upwards of a week, make it take only a few hours, but add more steps to the questline. So total hours spent is similar, but you don't have to sit in one area for days at a time. Instead, you have to go to more areas and get more pieces. I.E. more content to spread players around and reduce the poopsocking effect of waiting forever for one named mob to drop a piece for an epic quest.
Venjenz said:Watemper said:I do think some time sinks are dumb, like getting the stupid item from Swamp of no Hope for the veeshan key. Those are really dumb to me.
Addressing this specifically, that is a Kunark raid zone that has items that are still on par with the best Velious raid drops and epic quests. While timesink-y, I did every single piece of that key solo or single grouped, minus the Trakanon tooth, on 4 different characters. Yep, timesink. What do you think gearing a guild to be able to get past Aaryonar is, if not a time sink? What is getting the final Coldain ring in order to have a junk buff, if not a massive time sink? Comparatively, the VP key is kinda lukewarm on the EQ list of epic grindy-ness. Even in the Velious era, that zone mattered.
Only necro focus item through the Verlious era? Check. Most OP cleric item in the game? Check. 3rd best monk weapon in the entire game? Check. And not for nothing, but it is an awesome proving ground before even attempting the Aaryonar fight to try and take on NToV. A key that is 9/10th soloable and requires one raid kill per 2-4 keys is not much to ask.
I am not denying that there were way more keys and flagging systems that took longer than getting your key done for VP. But what I am saying is that it was a dumb time sink.
The way your are describing time sinks you mine aswell be max level and have everything given to you because everything is technically a time sink. I am just pointing out a dumb time sink. One that I find lazy and boring.
Venjenz said:Syrif said:Snrub- I have yet to see someone who wants a 100% EQ clone. Have you? Anyway, I would wager a lot of people miss the depth and challenge that is lacking in the mmo market such as a naked corpse runs. I LOVE and miss that type of a game :)
Here's the bottom line of all these QoL discussions - no matter what VR does at this point, a sizable chunk of the people who want to play Pantheon will not like it at all and will ed up not playin for long. What VR needs to do is figure out who represents the largest population and make the game that population likes and has been asking for.
While I agree with you 100% Venjenz, the concern is that VR needs to be open to all aspects of its "potential" community in order to turn all their work in to a sizable profit.
BTW, I play p99 aswell. Same deal.
philo said:I'll beat the horse one last time but I think it has been explained in multiple ways by multiple people now and that's all we can do.
Searril said: The FAQ stands unless something has been officially stated otherwise.
When VR team members say something publicly that is as official as you are going to get. More so than other, older outdated info we may have received in the past.
Iksar said: some things in it are still spot on but other things are going a different direction now and can be found in various posts or interviews over the past year and a half from Brad/Joppa and other members of VR.
The FAQ stands unless something has been officially stated otherwise. It's really super easy to understand.
We have people on here deciding to simply ignore parts of the FAQ, even with absolutely no contravening statement, simply because they wish it to be so.
Yes, some things in the FAQ are incorrect. Again, for the I don't know how many-eth time, everyone already knows that. VR employee statements have been made.
Doesn't change the simple, unavoidable fact:
"The FAQ stands unless something has been officially stated otherwise." If and when they make any statements that differ from the FAQ, then that becomes a thing. Until it's actually a thing, all it is is a select few loud people wishing it to be a thing.
ETA: One more thing, for full disclosure. I don't watch the streams. I tried to a couple times, but find them incredibly boring, and I have so many other things to do rather than watch some guy play a video game. However, if there are Q&A type things in the stream, I do like to quickly glance through a transcript of them for anything of interest. It's a lot quicker, and a lot less time wasted.
So what's the point? If a member of VR has stated in a stream that they are going to use corpse rot as a punishment mechanic, then by all means please share with me the transcript of the discussion so I can see it for myself.
Or, on the other hand, perhaps the players in PA currently are seeing corpses rot. Then that's on VR for not having the guts to simply come out and say "hey guys, we're trying out corpse rot" or for not giving the testers in PA the ok to share those kinds of information.
Most production companies actually have a position for someone that keeps track of FAQs and other articles on behalf of the company. I just don't think that particular position has actually been filled yet. Almost every single person in the company right now is building the title. It is hard work and sometimes FAQs and one-off dsdicussions can be misunderstood or misquoted or simply miss the boat all-together. I have written thousands of articles "for another company". They were read by millions of customers. Many times they were included in many Prima guides. When you start talking about tracking all of the information, spread over many years (and it has been a few years already here with Pantheon) it can be difficult. I say we give them a break. Eventually they WILL hire someone to keep everything sorted. VR is new - let them get the game completed before you start complaining about how something is difficult to understand. A little patience my fellow fans!
