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Pantheon: Class and Race Combinations

    • 1986 posts
    February 3, 2017 7:58 AM PST

    Archaen said:

    I'm surprised you didn't mention the most obvious reason for Dark Myr Bard.... WHALE SONG!

    On a more serious note... the main issue I have with the Gnome classes is it restricts them to 2 of the 4 roles. Surely their lore would fit with allowing them a class that fits into at least one more role.

     

     

    This speaks to me for some reason?............................... (pssst Im a fat guy)

    • 35 posts
    February 3, 2017 8:00 AM PST

    While we don't have enough class infos it's already clear that clerics are the supreme healers. I honestly hope that this wont mean that at a high level, they are the only real choice like it was in EQ1, at least early EQ1.

    With that in mind i would like to have more race choices as a cleric. Choices here are extremely limited. While i understand that paladin choices are very limited (you need people very dedicated to a good religion) that does not apply to clerics. Evil clerics are a staple of fantasy, and even neutral clerics make a lot of sense.

    I really like the idea of dwarven enchanters. Would totally play one.

    • 203 posts
    February 3, 2017 8:00 AM PST

    Schaweet! I have been looking forward to this for a while now! Understanding it is all tentative, I was wondering when you guys would bite the bullet and just call Crusaders Paladins ;) Now to start planning my characters out :)

    • 84 posts
    February 3, 2017 8:03 AM PST

    Some interesting stuff in there.

    If Necros do not make launch the Skar will have no pure casters (encanter, summoner, wizard, necro) - hopefully necros make it in time. Necro fits them so well and none of the other caster types do.

    Gnomes have no healers (cleric, druid, shaman) - could *maybe* make a case for them getting clerics based on their arcane knowledge and communal nature. They also have no warrior types but lore wise that fits - in to the arcane and not the physical (literaly! ;) )

    Ogers have only 4 classes to choose from (tied with halfling if necros do not make launch) - could possibly see them getting rangers (warrior/druid hybrid). Ghorrock has glacial ranges, need rangers for the ranges, right? ;). Ranger description says "fierce warriors" and all. No pure casters but also no reason to give them one (in my opinion).

    Halfling have no pure caster but that fits lore wise - can't think of any justification to give them one like I can with gnomes and healers. Overall well rounded aside from that.

    Humans are humans. Unfortunate but they seem to get every class in games, would be nice to see that shaken up some. Maybe steer them away from the nature base and more towards military/city base - drop druids, shaman, keep ranger (scount for armies).

     

     

    • 259 posts
    February 3, 2017 8:07 AM PST

    This is Wonderful !!! All three of my favorite classes are under my favorite race !

     

    Dark Myr Bard

    Dark Myr Cleric

    Dark Myr Enchanter

     

    My life is complete lol !

    • 81 posts
    February 3, 2017 8:26 AM PST

    Dark Myr = fishy water beings = mermaids/sirens = singing = bards....make sense to me

    • 198 posts
    February 3, 2017 8:27 AM PST

    The fact Humans are capable of being every class is a bit of a dissapointment for me, I was hoping they were not going down this path of being the "default option" jack of all trades. Many if not most of the times the more interesting part of things is why is not. Why is it that some races don't have Druids AND Shamans. It gives flavourful thoughts and questions about the culture and thought process of a race or many other things. Humans like this is basically saying "Yea you know they are multi-cultural and diverse and that is why they can be everything", frankly that is a boring and may I even say lazy solution which I am not a fan of.

    Also Paladin having so few options, might not play pally if only those are options :(

    • 1162 posts
    February 3, 2017 8:29 AM PST

    VitaKorp3n said:
    Schaweet! I have been looking forward to this for a while now! Understanding it is all tentative, I was wondering when you guys would bite the bullet and just call Crusaders Paladins ;) Now to start planning my characters out :)

    Looking forward to seeing some new characters in your art thread!

     

    Canno said:

    Humans are humans. Unfortunate but they seem to get every class in games, would be nice to see that shaken up some. Maybe steer them away from the nature base and more towards military/city base - drop druids, shaman, keep ranger (scount for armies).

     

    I guess I'm biased because I'm a human that plays humans, but it makes sense to me when humans can play all of these classes because they're either roles that real life humans have had throughout history, or they're roles that humans have had in keystone fantasy works.  Druidism and shamanism are still practiced by some humans today.  Of course, Terminus is not Earth, and so there's nothing that says Terminus humans have to be so much like Earth humans.

    • 4401 posts
    February 3, 2017 8:30 AM PST

    Am I the only one that's surprised by no Archai Summoner? That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the Archai. I was just planning on an alt, so I'm not devastated - I'm just very surprised. Would love to hear an explanation.

    Other than that, I love the combos. Very nice write-up. Ogre Druid sounds like a mystical mountain man, so that's cool. My suspicion of an Ogre Ranger was not that far off after all. Anyway, lots of interesting stuff to think about here.

    As someone who will main a Cleric, I'm not worried about the lack of other races that can be clerics. That only puts me in higher demand to get in groups ;) However, I am curious to see what early levels are like in starting areas for each race. If the world is big and difficult to travel, I'm assuming you will probably only be able to group with people of your same race in the early levels. And gnomes, for example, don't seem to be able to fill each part of the quaternity... or even the trinity. There are no obvious tanks or healers for them. Perhaps summoners will be able to summon a tanking pet (if that's the case, beware the wrath of vjek lol). But even still, I doubt they will have any healers in their low level groups. Is that going to be a problem?

    • 1162 posts
    February 3, 2017 8:36 AM PST

    Bazgrim said:

    Am I the only one that's surprised by no Archai Summoner? That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the Archai. I was just planning on an alt, so I'm not devastated - I'm just very surprised. Would love to hear an explanation.

    Other than that, I love the combos. Very nice write-up. Ogre Druid sounds like a mystical mountain man, so that's cool. My suspicion of an Ogre Ranger was not that far off after all. Anyway, lots of interesting stuff to think about here.

    As someone who will main a Cleric, I'm not worried about the lack of other races that can be clerics. That only puts me in higher demand to get in groups ;) However, I am curious to see what early levels are like in starting areas for each race. If the world is big and difficult to travel, I'm assuming you will probably only be able to group with people of your same race in the early levels. And gnomes, for example, don't seem to be able to fill each part of the quaternity... or even the trinity. There are no obvious tanks or healers for them. Perhaps summoners will be able to summon a tanking pet (if that's the case, beware the wrath of vjek lol). But even still, I doubt they will have any healers in their low level groups. Is that going to be a problem?

     

    I'm guessing young gnomes will come in contact with the Dwarves before they run into any full group content, and they'll have their tanks and healers.

    • 1986 posts
    February 3, 2017 8:36 AM PST
    @ Canno

    Healers are usually considered Divine based. Druids are usually Nature based as well. Neither of those are of the Arcane. So it makes sense from a Lore perspective for the Gnomes.
    • 4401 posts
    February 3, 2017 9:25 AM PST

    Shucklighter said:

    Bazgrim said:

    Am I the only one that's surprised by no Archai Summoner? That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the Archai. I was just planning on an alt, so I'm not devastated - I'm just very surprised. Would love to hear an explanation.

    Other than that, I love the combos. Very nice write-up. Ogre Druid sounds like a mystical mountain man, so that's cool. My suspicion of an Ogre Ranger was not that far off after all. Anyway, lots of interesting stuff to think about here.

    As someone who will main a Cleric, I'm not worried about the lack of other races that can be clerics. That only puts me in higher demand to get in groups ;) However, I am curious to see what early levels are like in starting areas for each race. If the world is big and difficult to travel, I'm assuming you will probably only be able to group with people of your same race in the early levels. And gnomes, for example, don't seem to be able to fill each part of the quaternity... or even the trinity. There are no obvious tanks or healers for them. Perhaps summoners will be able to summon a tanking pet (if that's the case, beware the wrath of vjek lol). But even still, I doubt they will have any healers in their low level groups. Is that going to be a problem?

     

    I'm guessing young gnomes will come in contact with the Dwarves before they run into any full group content, and they'll have their tanks and healers.

    What makes you think that?

    I also forgot to mention that I'm also curious as to why Elves can't be Clerics. And that's not just based on other games. The lore VR provided to us made it seem like Clerics (and even Paladins) would be a given.

    "Elves carry an immortal sense of how fleeting life is" sorta sounds Cleric-y haha.
    "cast an aggressive eye toward the surrounding lands, rooting out evil where it resides." sorta sounds Paladin-y.

    I always thought elves made pretty poor Paladins (and that's speaking from first-hand experience) so that doesn't really bother me. But it seems like there'd have to be a very specific reason for them to exclude some classes, so I'm just curious as to what that reason is. The lore does only mention physical and arcane prowess. It says nothing of divine. So perhaps the Elves don't really have a connection with a deity? Either way, I wasn't really planning on playing any Elves at all, so I'm just being nosey. And like I said, I don't really care if Clerics are scarce, but that's just me being selfish :P


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at February 3, 2017 9:26 AM PST
    • 1162 posts
    February 3, 2017 9:44 AM PST

    Just a guess based on the current map.  Could be the Archai, also.  I actually hope they mix the races up bit rather than keep them in the locations they currently have them, but I think it's still likely that Gnomes will come into contact with some other race to tank and heal for them before they're ready to head into full-group dungeons.

    • 84 posts
    February 3, 2017 9:52 AM PST

    Shucklighter said:

    VitaKorp3n said:
    Schaweet! I have been looking forward to this for a while now! Understanding it is all tentative, I was wondering when you guys would bite the bullet and just call Crusaders Paladins ;) Now to start planning my characters out :)

    Looking forward to seeing some new characters in your art thread!

     

    Canno said:

    Humans are humans. Unfortunate but they seem to get every class in games, would be nice to see that shaken up some. Maybe steer them away from the nature base and more towards military/city base - drop druids, shaman, keep ranger (scount for armies).

     

    I guess I'm biased because I'm a human that plays humans, but it makes sense to me when humans can play all of these classes because they're either roles that real life humans have had throughout history, or they're roles that humans have had in keystone fantasy works.  Druidism and shamanism are still practiced by some humans today.  Of course, Terminus is not Earth, and so there's nothing that says Terminus humans have to be so much like Earth humans.

     

    Yeah, I mean I don't really have a problem with humans doing everything, would be nice to see a shake up of the norm is all. :)

    • 580 posts
    February 3, 2017 9:52 AM PST

    What strikes me as odd is the fact that Dark Myr can be almost all classes. More so than the Elves. And the fact that the Elves can't be Cleric or Paladin. Didn't think Dark Myr would be Druid or Monk either but that's at least less of a surprise.

    • 84 posts
    February 3, 2017 10:11 AM PST

    Amsai said: @ Canno Healers are usually considered Divine based. Druids are usually Nature based as well. Neither of those are of the Arcane. So it makes sense from a Lore perspective for the Gnomes.

     

    For clerics (or pure healers) it's really about where they draw power from and how they channel it. Ususally considered divine, sure, but not always. For example battle medics (homebrew build) from D&D ( http://dandwiki.com/wiki/Battle_Medic_(5e_Class)  )  In the end it's their world and they can define where clerics draw from and use their powers. Just offering a way to expand clerics to another race - I have no interest in playing a gnome. :D

    Druids and shamans being more nature attuned, I agree, make no sense lore wise (as I said in my orginal post). 

     

     

    Edited to add homebrew build for clarification


    This post was edited by Canno at February 3, 2017 10:12 AM PST
    • 161 posts
    February 3, 2017 10:13 AM PST

    Wow thanks for the updated info, always knew I'd be an Elf Ranger

    • 254 posts
    February 3, 2017 10:15 AM PST

    I think the biggest surprise for me is the Skar/Monk combo.  I tend to think of monks as being the epitome of discipline and control, whereas the Skar race description seems to have them being everything but.

     

    That said, the race discription does have other traits that would favor a monk's fighting style, like the fact that "they attack to overwhelm quickly."

     

    Other than that, the things that stood out to me were:

    -  the lack of race options for Paladins

    -  the lack of any healing capacity among the gnomes

    -  Rangers will be exclusive to Kingsreach

     

    On the plus side, I think the restrictions will help to encourage travel.

     

    • 5 posts
    February 3, 2017 10:23 AM PST

    Elrandir said:

     

    On the plus side, I think the restrictions will help to encourage travel.

     

     

    The long trek across Norrath to meet up with my brother was one of the more memorable times I had in EQ. Later in the game I relied heavily on other players for transportation to spires or rings, but still ended up having to run from there to most destinations.

    • 476 posts
    February 3, 2017 10:25 AM PST

    Youmu said:

    The fact Humans are capable of being every class is a bit of a dissapointment for me, I was hoping they were not going down this path of being the "default option" jack of all trades. Many if not most of the times the more interesting part of things is why is not. Why is it that some races don't have Druids AND Shamans. It gives flavourful thoughts and questions about the culture and thought process of a race or many other things. Humans like this is basically saying "Yea you know they are multi-cultural and diverse and that is why they can be everything", frankly that is a boring and may I even say lazy solution which I am not a fan of.

    Also Paladin having so few options, might not play pally if only those are options :(

    Humans being the most diverse in class choice is where their advantages typically end in most games, so taking that away would seem like handicapping humans since it doesn't make sense for them to be the best at a specific thing like other classes. Humans are the most adaptable, while being the least specialized.

    • 4401 posts
    February 3, 2017 10:30 AM PST

    Elrandir said:

    I think the biggest surprise for me is the Skar/Monk combo.  I tend to think of monks as being the epitome of discipline and control, whereas the Skar race description seems to have them being everything but.

     

    That said, the race discription does have other traits that would favor a monk's fighting style, like the fact that "they attack to overwhelm quickly."

    Ah yes, that puzzled me as well. I feel like there gonna have to do some serious explaining as to either:

    a. how it is possible to be a "monk" without being focused/centered

    b. how it is possible for some skar to attain the discipline required to be a monk

    Because from what we know of the skar, there's definitely a big gap. In fact, it almost seems like a contradiction. Skar are reckless and bloodthirsty. Not very monk-like. Unless VR is going to redefine the monk (unlikely), monks value balance above all else. Not very skar-like.

    Other than that, I agree there are some aspects of the skar that would help them with the hand-to-hand fighting style. They are quick, flexible, and I'm sure those spikes make nifty built-in weapons.

    • 254 posts
    February 3, 2017 10:30 AM PST

    Leitbur said:

    The long trek across Norrath to meet up with my brother was one of the more memorable times I had in EQ. Later in the game I relied heavily on other players for transportation to spires or rings, but still ended up having to run from there to most destinations.

     

    I remember early on spending a few days farming plat in Blackburrow with a couple of friends so we could earn enough to pay a wizard to port us to GFay.  The plat would have made for a few nice upgrades, but it was totally worth it to go and experience Crushbone for a few levels.  That was one of my fondest early EQ memories.

     

    • 84 posts
    February 3, 2017 10:49 AM PST

    Bazgrim said:

    Elrandir said:

    I think the biggest surprise for me is the Skar/Monk combo.  I tend to think of monks as being the epitome of discipline and control, whereas the Skar race description seems to have them being everything but.

     

    That said, the race discription does have other traits that would favor a monk's fighting style, like the fact that "they attack to overwhelm quickly."

    Ah yes, that puzzled me as well. I feel like there gonna have to do some serious explaining as to either:

    a. how it is possible to be a "monk" without being focused/centered

    b. how it is possible for some skar to attain the discipline required to be a monk

    Because from what we know of the skar, there's definitely a big gap. In fact, it almost seems like a contradiction. Skar are reckless and bloodthirsty. Not very monk-like. Unless VR is going to redefine the monk (unlikely), monks value balance above all else. Not very skar-like.

    Other than that, I agree there are some aspects of the skar that would help them with the hand-to-hand fighting style. They are quick, flexible, and I'm sure those spikes make nifty built-in weapons.

     

    Their discipline and focus comes from an entire existance of fighting and war. For them it's not about the spiritual side (not that either of you mentioned spirituality), it's about becoming the best weapon they can be. Going off the brief description of monk they give - it doesn't mention balance or spirituallity - only turning the mind and body in to a weapon.

     

    It can be made to work ;)

    • 1240 posts
    February 3, 2017 10:54 AM PST

    Fantastic !! This is exactly the kinda secret sauce I've been craving. 

    Now to go fully digest everything here.... 

     

    • 84 posts
    February 3, 2017 11:07 AM PST

    Amsai said: @ Canno Healers are usually considered Divine based. Druids are usually Nature based as well. Neither of those are of the Arcane. So it makes sense from a Lore perspective for the Gnomes.

     

    Guess I should have looked closer in to the cleric, from: https://pantheonmmo.com/classes/cleric/

     

    "It is the Frail Age of Terminus. After the horrors of the Deicide War, interaction with the Celestials has become virtually unknown. Thus, the Clerics can hardly rely on their Pantheon directly. Instead, they must bind themselves to the ancient directives of their Order, guided by the written wisdom of the Celestials of ages past."

     

    Sounds more arcane than divine to me.

     

    And then it says:

    "Though few in number, Clerics can perform feats of stunning ability once empowered with a measure of their Celestial’s influence. Indeed, for this very reason, certain elder Clerics are mistakenly revered as true Celestials! Because of the Cleric’s searing devotion to the Celestial path, they have evolved the means to turn Undeath and other malignant beings."

     

    So - quite possibly it's both? Or an evolution, starting from arcane until they get the attention of a higher power and then it's an arcane/divine mix?