I've been pretty consistent with my opinion of the Progeny system. I really just cant see myself deleting a character that I've dedicated 100's of hours to just to get a minor incremental stat update on an alt. However, while re-reading Brad's reddit AMA today, a thought occurred to me that would make this a possibly compelling mechanic. What if the offspring that you sacraficed our main in order to achieve were a new unlocked class specialization?
I am not speculating on any VR intentions at all here, so just take this as a means to illustrate a notion only. But, what if having reached max level on a summoner and having achieved a measurable level of power and/or reputation, it were possible for your child to expand on that knowledge and skill to unlock the secrets of necromancy. That offsrping then can begin (at level 1) his or her journey to master the necromantic arts and the player can then play the game as the necromancer class.
I know I'm not alone at all in the camp that really doesnt want to sacrafice a character we've heavily invested in. But that crowd, does a system like this make the idea more palatable? Or worse?
Yes, for me it is similar, only very few reasons could make me delete a character I have invested a lot of time in. One of course could be to unlock a complete new class. If only my current interest changed, for example in playing a healer instead of a tank, then I would instead level a second character. But maybe we have only one character slot? This would force us to do it this way. But I really hope, this is not the case and we will get plenty of character slots. The fact, that a few stats get a little bit increased would not bring me to sacrify my main character using the progeny system.
Maybe one other reason for the progeny system would be to unlock new races, I mean especially mixed races, like half-elf, etc. So If you play a human your ancestor could be the result of a relationship with an elf. If this would be the only way to play half-elfs maybe this could be a good reason to sacrify your human or elf character in the progeny system.
One other thing came to my mind. E. g. warriors can use two-handed weapons, but rogues only could use one-handed. If you sacrify your warrior you can create a rogue with the ability to wield a two-handed weapon.
See the Thread :
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3865/faq-tenets-and-features-revamp
in it:
Q1B-1. Is the progeny system still on the table? And if it is, will there be any benefit from the progeny system besides cosmetic improvements?
It's on the table and it having actual in-game effects would be essential -- likely certain aspects of an alt's parents would be passed onto the alt, giving it certain advantages and abilities a normal alt would not have -- the trick, of course, is to reward long term players for making alts while not overpowering their alts and furstrating new players.
The question you need to ask here is 'What is the aim of the progeny system?' ... 'what is it trying to accomplish?'
Is the aim to get players who get to max level to 'retire' (a.k.a. delete) their mains,
OR
Is the aim to get players to create alts and play them?
... using the word 'alt' here seem to indicate the latter option.
i.e. it implies:
The 'progeny' system is a mechanism to create incentives for people to make alts in preference to continue exp'ing thier main.
... which sort of changes your arguements above guys. May have to wait until it becomes clearer whether the intended aim is option (i) or option (ii). Once we have a clearer rationale for the use of the machanism, we will have a much better idea of how it is to be implemented and what benefits might accrue.
PS: I do like the idea of Main = Human and so, if you can reach high enough Elf faction, then you can unlock 'Half-Elf' for an Alt!
I find myself agreeing with much of what has been expressed here. Because of this I would dearly love to see "progeny" as an option for persons who have reached current max level. From an RP stand points as well as a practical gamers view point this makes sense. People don't just up and die the moment they have children ! Also... as noted above.. who wanted to delete a character that they have worked so hard on? (Unless they have not additional character slots that is and REALLY want to play a different race/class).
Honestly... I don't see myself deleting a character I've work so hard and long on ... just to get a minor benefit for a new character.
@Evoras
It was my impression that the Progeny system very clearly made your sire unplayable in order to benefit your alt.
From the Game Features page here : https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/game_features/
"Carry on your legacy with progeny—retire a character and have his or her child resume the adventure"
[Emphasis added]
"Retire" is a pretty unambiguous word. I dont see another interpretation other than "no longer playable".
Brad reinforces the use of this word here : "...We could use names occasionally to actually name parts of the game, perhaps in homage to the first person to travel to an area, etc. The progeny system is obviously related, with the retired chacters attributes, stats, characteristcs, etc. to some degree influencing his offspring. I could go on and on.... "
Kilsin described it here : https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3056/the-progeny-system-what-say-you
"If given the chance to let your max level character die and restart as your level 1 son or daughter, would you do it? :)
Progeny is the 3rd point from the bottom: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/pantheon_difference/"
-And
"Think of it as dying peacefully of old age (max level) and restarting fresh as your own son or daughter, keeping a few perks/benefits that your father/mother excelled in (AA points, journeyman crafter, combat passives etc.) if you choose to start as a different class altogether then you may lose some class specific perks that you max level main had for example but it may not matter if you have other benefits to help, there will be decisions to be made ;) "
Ah, interesting - I had not searched back that far... and possibly Brad uses 'Alt' where we, perhaps, would be more precise and say 'a new replcement char'.
I do know D&D online had such a system (kill off a max level char to re-start at level 1 but with bonus to starting stats etc). I will have to go off and read the discussions you linked in your post.
But, with such emphasis on horizontal progression, it would be difficult to imagine restarting.....
Evoras said:Ah, interesting - I had not searched back that far... and possibly Brad uses 'Alt' where we, perhaps, would be more precise and say 'a new replcement char'.
I do know D&D online had such a system (kill off a max level char to re-start at level 1 but with bonus to starting stats etc). I will have to go off and read the discussions you linked in your post.
But, with such emphasis on horizontal progression, it would be difficult to imagine restarting.....
I'm totally with ya. I really dont like the idea of scrapping and starting over as a general rule. But I can't wholly discount the idea of being able to buy in if it's a progression that makes some kind of sense. I originally imagined a system that was "+1 to ever stat pool for each generation, maxing at generation X". And that just seems, well, stupid. But if it's a more interesting system like a class unlock for a specialization I'm much more likely to buy in.
I would like to see the progeny system linked to hybrid races or classes. To me that would make far more sense than a few stat bonuses. What's more, is it could be used as a way to revitalize the game some more with each expansion. It'd encourage people to level up alt's all the more, just so they'd have something available to reroll prior to an expansion.
Unlocking certain halfbreed combinations, and as a result hybrid classes of sorts. I don't know the specifics of the VG healing monk class, I picture more of the friar (i think?) class from DAOC, a monk with some basic healing skills.
I could see them doing what was suggested above, and one of the first unlocked classes being a necromancer of sorts. Possibly in a later expansion you could combine the necro with a healer and go in the bloodmage direction?
I'd consider rerolling if it yielded a specific spell/ability bonus similar to above. Or if it were useful/appealing enough then possibly doubling-down on a class - having a second generation summoner might enable you to have a stronger pet or more specifically a hybrid pet that merges two other pets. Similar to a 1st gen summoner having fire/water/earth/air, and a second gen merging fire/earth to create a magma pet, etc.
Feyshtey said:I've been pretty consistent with my opinion of the Progeny system. I really just cant see myself deleting a character that I've dedicated 100's of hours to just to get a minor incremental stat update on an alt. However, while re-reading Brad's reddit AMA today, a thought occurred to me that would make this a possibly compelling mechanic. What if the offspring that you sacraficed our main in order to achieve were a new unlocked class specialization?
I don't think they are going to make you delete your character to gain the progeny bonus...
I think a good idea is that when you make an alt you can claim a progeny bonus on one of them and at that point you can delete the original character if you want.
bigdogchris said:Feyshtey said:I've been pretty consistent with my opinion of the Progeny system. I really just cant see myself deleting a character that I've dedicated 100's of hours to just to get a minor incremental stat update on an alt. However, while re-reading Brad's reddit AMA today, a thought occurred to me that would make this a possibly compelling mechanic. What if the offspring that you sacraficed our main in order to achieve were a new unlocked class specialization?
I don't think they are going to make you delete your character to gain the progeny bonus...
I think a good idea is that when you make an alt you can claim a progeny bonus on one of them and at that point you can delete the original character if you want.
Ok, I'll grant you that you might not have the delete your old character. But if the result of the system is that you cannot log that character in and adventure, realistically what is the difference?
I think the 'retirement' part is the hardest part of this system to wrap one’s head around and to accept. In fact, having to permanently retire a high level character in order to create alts with progeny bonuses may be asking too much. While we're not putting a lot of time into the progeny system right now (it's something that is planned several months down the road, after we actually have high level characters, have experienced high level combat, etc.), if there's anything that pokes a sizable hole in the system it's the retirement part, and what that truly means or might mean.
We have to first go back to the purpose for such a system -- one of its primary goals is to reward a player who has leveled up a character to max level by encouraging him to create alts and experience the game again, albeit from a different perspective, and ideally in such a way that feels different and new enough that it’s a lot of fun. It's about replayability. It's also about pride -- you could adventure with your augmented alts and people would recognize that you were someone who has already achieved great things in Pantheon. And I think these are great goals -- recognizing and rewarding long time players while also giving them reason to keep playing can't be a bad thing.
But then how does it actually work? Well first, we haven't said much, again because this system is not even close to being set in stone, and, as mentioned, one that doesn't have to be fully fleshed out in the near term. So I'm going to speculate and theory-craft a bit -- yes, that means I'm not announcing anything officially.
First, does such a system really require that the older character be permanently retired? I remember my earlier characters and how proud I was of them -- I didn't log them in very often because I was more interested in leveling up my newer characters -- but I did log them in occasionally to show them off and perhaps even participate in some adventure. If I couldn't do this because my character was inaccessible, how would that make me feel? Probably not so good.
But if the higher level player isn't retired, is it fair to allow that person to create alts with some added benefits? I honestly don’t see where it’s not – if you do, please speak up. So for the sake of this discussion, I'm willing to remove the retirement part and think about it for a while -- is there something I'm missing?
One of the other questions that comes up is will there be any restrictions as to who these augmented alts can be? If, for example, they are the offspring of a mighty human warrior and a beautiful ashen elf wizard, then it wouldn't make any sense if that alt could be any race or class, especially race. Does this restriction add to the system? Perhaps it does -- if you want all sorts of augmented alts that are a variety of races and classes, then perhaps you need to bring multiple characters up to this level necessary to use the Progeny system. Maybe that's good and encourages even more replayability.
And the last big question that keeps coming up is 'just what are these augmentations, these advantages?' And will they create an imbalance? Will these alts be crazy powerful and damage the balance and fun of the lower level game? Well, that's the easiest one to answer: no, of course we couldn't let that happen. I'm confident that whatever these advantages might be that they could be measurably beneficial, truly noticeable, yet not so powerful that balance is harmed or that nobody will want to group with regular characters.
Anyway, that's pretty much what I wanted to bring up in hopes that people keep talking about this proposed system and how it might work (or how it might not). The big question being, of course, is retirement really a necessary part of the system? It's certainly a big negative to many people and I have to ask, what is the positive? What does the system lose or what breaks or what doesn't make sense if the original character is still around and playable? Or, if a sacrifice must be made, perhaps it’s not about retiring a high level character but rather sacrificing powerful items in a ritual that results in their alts (offspring) having special advantages. This could be a great item sink, and while it would sting to lose some great items, you still get to play your old character if you want to.
It is interesting that this system is brought up as often as it is. I didn’t expect it to be. It’s an old MUD concept that I’ve wanted to bring to MMOs for some time as I’m always thinking about ways to encourage and reward long term play, about ways to keep people playing an MMO even years later. Really, that’s all the system is: a way to reward players who've put a lot of time into the game and who might want to experience the game again, as an alt, but would be even further incentivized to do so if that alt had some small but noticeable advantages. It's like a rite of passage and a recognition and a measure of respect shown to older players. Everything else is just detail, context, and flavor.
Thoughts?
I do believe that character sacrifice should be necessary to get the "full package" progeny character. If there is some lite version that allows you to make an alt with a small bonus, thats cool, but for a character with any truly special and unique passive or active abilities, the original character should be retired, imo.
Some really good suggestions in this thread. I think offering a unique specialization or even a new class is the coolest. Perhaps a new class might be seen as "going to far" or "unfair for casuals" but I could see where, for a limited time (early access to a new class), players willing to sacrifice a max level character could gain access to a new class. Perhaps as time passes and this new art of [insert physical or magical discipline here] becomes better known, players will be able to select that class at character creation.
I also like the idea of being able to become a student of a class not normally available to a particular race. Maybe humans don't like shamanistic tribal magic. Members of that class may be outcasts in Thronefast. Well perhaps if you played a race in the past that practiced witchcraft, you could start a unique half-ogre/half-human (Ogrekin), allowing you to start a new human-like character, born in the Ogre empire, that can become a shaman. Ideally a unique racial character model - perhaps in this instance, simply a human that is taller than normal humans.
Unique races, unique classes, unique specializations would be an amazing incentive for players to sacrifice their characters. Many of these bonuses would be purly cosmetic, which is one of the better ways to balance such exclusivity. However, I don't think some of these more unique benefits should be allowed without actually retiring the character.
If Im honest, I cant get excited about the progeny system. I am really a one charcter dude. If I have alts then they are either forever at lower levels from experimenting to see which class I liked best. Or they could be mules for inventory. Even in FFXI where you can have multiple classes on one character I only had 2 max classes, because frankly Ninja never got boring but couldnt tank everything. I would simply prefer AAs so I could continue to progress my Main.
I do know that there are many people that are atlaholics or just love the journey and dont care for raiding and the like. I could see this as being an acceptable form of "endgame" progression for them.
My main at this point will be Bard of course! But with the great likelyhood of no Bard at launch, I will choose another class, and I very well might progeny into a new Bard as my main when they are released (Gnomish Bard make it happen!) And this would be the only reason I can think of that Id want to retire a character so it would likely be my first and last time doing so. And even if that didnt mean having to retire my first character, Im still just a one character dude.
I think Id have to agree with Dullahan mostly. Unique races and classes for sure. Different paths for classes hinted at in the past I think should stay as normal progression through your trainer, class quests, or AAs. This would offer the uniqueness and prestege for older players in the form of cosmetic and horizontal rewards instead of vertical with power increases (harder to balance too). The races or classes would be good in their own right though (whatever role that is).
I would say he doesn`t have to "retire" completely we have speculated on this quite abit on our shows and have had some ideas be bounced back and forth. I can see the reasons why VR would even think of a system like this and i do support the idea strongly. But there are other ways to make us want to go back into lower level areas dungeons etc that can help with that even without a system like the "Progeny"
Since we are all looking for a dynamic world and with the perception system in place is would make it very easy for higher level character to want to go back to lower areas and explore add world events where higher level monster invade lower level areas that require the help from higher level characters to overcome the threat and maybe these events are triggers that could unlock more lore or quest or depth of the world in terminus.
I will try and bring some in here for the discussion to see what others think.
1. What if the character is temporarily "retired" ? Meaning it becomes maybe an NPC in your Guild Hall or House or an NPC of the City or a NPC for starting out with maybe a little tip to help new players along or maybe becomes a "rent a char for beginners"
So how would you untemp the "retirement" ? Well that could be done by a quest when a new expac or level advancement comes out you would need to do a quest to bring him out of retirement.
2. If "retired" truely is that really bad ?
I can surely feel what the OP has said and am kind of with him on that. My character is in the end my identity and if that character is my main i do tend to stick with it. So how could we still make it useful the "Progeny System" and still make it work ?
What about if instead of retirering the Character you could send it off on one really long epic quest that will reward that character and give you the sense of really being one out of a 1000 people who reached that level or goal and as a reward you get these "progeny benefits" to pass on to an alt. Like maybe gaiing true insight of your class and becoming a "Master of Clerics" or "Master of Dire Lords" etc only then can you gain the right to progeny but still use your main character and maybe have a titel or special armor that seperates you from the rest.
3. That damn Character name is not useable anymore and is bound to my "retired" Character what now ?
Well if it is at all possible to name your "progeny" as an example Yarnila - Yarnila I - Yarnila II and so forth somehow or (II)Yarnila i think some of us could get on board with the idea.
4. Another big discussionen is what kind of benifits would make worth while to even take this path ?
this is really a tough one to sell and figure out at least for me without really having more insight on the matter and i am sure it is just as hard for the devs to work out.
These are just some ideas to toss around and discuss upon.
I like the idea of having to sacrifice a high level character to unlock maybe a special power or maybe another class availability through my own hard work. I think alot of the "Casual" players that take a much longer time to level might find it a little annoying to have a max level character, but if you think about it in the stand point of "Sacrificing your HARD EARNED WORK" back into a level 1 just to play a new class maybe even a race that would be better base stats for said class that you were just playing? You also got to think about it in the standpoint of, Not being able to play said high level characters brings life back into the lower level zones after people have started reaching max level, making it still viable to find/make groups at all points of leveling.
I am all for the ability of having unplayable classes until I earned the right to unlock them through my own hard work. For example as Feyshtey said:
Feyshtey said:What if having reached max level on a summoner and having achieved a measurable level of power and/or reputation, it were possible for your child to expand on that knowledge and skill to unlock the secrets of necromancy. That offspring then can begin (at level 1) his or her journey to master the necromantic arts and the player can then play the game as the necromancer class.
Just don't make these "classes" visable upon first character creation, and only visable when you do a progeny character creation. A: Players might feel the need to rush to the max level just to play the class they REALLY REALLY want/think they want to play. B: it creates mystery as players when they use the progeny system, they wont know what classes may be available. (Bard/Necro /hinthint LOL)
Maybe we can make a combination of sacrificing a max level character and a item to go with it? Maybe sacrificing a Epic Weapon, (This feels like that would already happen if you sack your character but just being used as an example) Or something of similar or/greater power? Maybe your character is just not max level yet but you REALLY REALLY want to play say a locked class (Bard/Necro/Beserker/Alchemist). So lets say
Current Max level is 60
Your current level is 58
Instead of leveling for those 2 levels as it may take forever based on exp grind needed, maybe you can sack that level 58 character and a really expensive item (expensive = super strong) that a level 60 player would use. 1: it gives item sink. 2: it lets players get to creating new characters slightly sooner?. 3: Money Sink. (It could act as a in-game currency sink as said players MIGHT buy said "expensive" item just to reroll their new toon.
Another possibility we could us is Add a in-game Currency sink into recreation of said progeny child. For example, Sack your level 60 character and 100plat (depending on reasonable cost)
1: it creates Money sink.
2: Makes it slightly less desirable as they have to sink their hard earned character and in-game cash.
3: creates a decision that the player must decide.
Another way to implement the progeny system that really caught my eye was from Dullahan
Dullahan said:I do believe that character sacrifice should be necessary to get the "full package" progeny character. If there is some lite version that allows you to make an alt with a small bonus, thats cool, but for a character with any truly special and unique passive or active abilities, the original character should be retired, imo.
Some really good suggestions in this thread. I think offering a unique specialization or even a new class is the coolest. Perhaps a new class might be seen as "going to far" or "unfair for casuals" but I could see where, for a limited time (early access to a new class), players willing to sacrifice a max level character could gain access to a new class. Perhaps as time passes and this new art of [insert physical or magical discipline here] becomes better known, players will be able to select that class at character creation.
I also like the idea of being able to become a student of a class not normally available to a particular race. Maybe humans don't like shamanistic tribal magic. Members of that class may be outcasts in Thronefast. Well perhaps if you played a race in the past that practiced witchcraft, you could start a unique half-ogre/half-human (Ogrekin), allowing you to start a new human-like character, born in the Ogre empire, that can become a shaman. Ideally a unique racial character model - perhaps in this instance, simply a human that is taller than normal humans.
Unique races, unique classes, unique specializations would be an amazing incentive for players to sacrifice their characters. Many of these bonuses would be purly cosmetic, which is one of the better ways to balance such exclusivity. However, I don't think some of these more unique benefits should be allowed without actually retiring the character.
Rather than retiring a max level toon, I'm wondering if progeny could instead be used to advance the main character's storyline? For instance, feats performed by the progeny character could open up new quests for the main character which would allow him/her to acquire new gear or augmentations of some sort.
Elrandir said:Rather than retiring a max level toon, I'm wondering if progeny could instead be used to advance the main character's storyline? For instance, feats performed by the progeny character could open up new quests for the main character which would allow him/her to acquire new gear or augmentations of some sort.
Could you elaborate more on this? I don't see how this would really work... 0.o?
LeonSanborn said:Could you elaborate more on this? I don't see how this would really work... 0.o?
There are probably a lot of ways that this could be implemented, but a quick example would be something like this:
Your progeny toon is out adventuring in some mid-level content and bumps into an NPC.
NPC: "You bear a striking resemblance to an adventurer that I once saw a portrait of. You wouldn't happen to be related to, LeonSanborn?"
After engaging in some dialogue with the NPC, he explains that he's come into some sort of trouble that centers around a cursed amulet he came across. He gives you the amulet to take to your main which kicks off a quest of some sort.
Again, just a quick example. But the main idea is that the progeny character is now advancing the main character's story line.
Assumptions for progeny system (DEV/gamerworld POV): i.e. AIMS
Re-invigorate starter/lowbie zones with new char creations ('recycle' population level distribution)
Item/cash sink to remove from system (Fight MUD-flation)
Re-enthuse and keep long-standing players in the game (not stuck in 'raid' rut awaiting 'new content'.)
1. Ignore 'MAX level threshold' as a fixed point. It is not relevenat to you that they 'reached max level' before deciding to use the progeny system. It is paramount that they have experienced *most* of the total level range, but not that they have experienced it *all*. This is based on the (i) Assumptions for wanting the progeny system inh the fiorst place (see above) and (ii) the End-Game starts well before 'the max level' in nearly all cases. You are using 'end-game content' at 5 levels below max level in almost all games. So let us use *that* as the determining force.
2. Have the 'benefit' linked to 'how' the player uses the progeny system. It is simple, if the mechanism uses a third-party system, to implement it in the same way as a quest. In my examples below I will predicate a solution based on 'actual' offspring (son/daughter)... or even 'match-made offspring' (niece/nephew etc). Here I assume Game-Launch will have minimum of Lev-50 as 'MAX level'. Adjust the levels as applicable if this does not apply.
++ START of Position Paper
WARNING: The following info is from a Development POV: Imagine an internal VR paper to Brad.
WARNING: The following will include RP suitable content.
PROGENY QUEST (Level Range 40-50; Optimum level 45+)
A. Find the Match-Maker service:
A(i) NPC 'MateMatch.Com' or NPC 'Dowrys-R-US' need to be located to start the quest. They are not hard to find. They will not speak to you about the quest unless you have achieved a certain level of fame. This may be determined by, perhaps,
Level, Faction, Wealth, Exploration, Achievements, or a combination of factors (Fame/Notoriety)
A(ii) These should be something an experienced level 35+ char could 99% meet (this is to stop 'rushers' or PL'd characters. We want people who have *actually* played the game to use the progeny system, not people to try to 'exploit' the system. No player who has 'naturally' progressed should *not* meet these criteria, but a PL'd character should certainly *not* meet these.)
A(iii) Assuming player meets these criteria, the NPC will initiate :
'I provide the premier matchmaking service thoughout the Realm. Should you avail yourself of my services, I am confident I will be able to find you the perfect partner to complement you and ensure you have progeny with which to continue your lineage and proud name. Once a match is found, I will act as intermediary bnetween youself and the other party to arrange the dowry.'
What services
Once you can pay your deposit, I will undertake a search based on your exacting criteria.
what deposit
This non-refundable deposit must be paid before I will begin the search. Make sure you have also set the search criteria.
what criteria
The criteria chosen for your mate must include the Race you would want for your progeny. Since your progeny must be of a race equal to yours, or your prospectives mate's - or a comination of the two in certain cases - you can easily see how important this choice is. The more the chosen race naturally hates your race, the harder it will be for me to find you a match. This will, naturally raise the price for both my services and the dowry you will need to pay once I have located a potential match.
what dowry
I will need to convince the family of your prospective spouse to accept you. Many factors will determine the size of the dowry needed to convince them. Your fame and prestige will help to reduce this to a level that is mutually acceptible.
pay deposit
(container opens) Cost should be CASH and GEMS (more if your faction low with NPC)
A(iii) NPC will now inform the player that the search has begun.
They will instruct you to return after X days. This cost (payment) is repeated Y times:
Y = 1 Race gap = 0, Eg Human - Human (use Lore to determine)
Y = 2 Race gap = 1, Eg Human - Elf, (use Lore to determine)
Y = 3 Race gap = 2, Eg Elf - Gnome (use Lore to determine)
Y > 3 May be forbidden (use Lore to determine)
NOTE: Dowry may include getting a minimum FACTION level for matched race.
A(iv) NPC Will inform you of success and that they have agreed a price for the Dowry.
Factors affecting price :
Base cost 1 = Y x (Y + 1) x 250,000 coins
Base cost 2 = Y x (Y + 2) x 1000 Q-Levels of magic items
Q-Level = Quality (eg common =1, uncommon=2 etc) x Item-Level
Level below/above 45 affects as +/- cost. Eg Add (50 - Level) x 25,000
Progeny gains all titles: FULL RETIRE (Delete)
Benefit = -450,000 to cost, -1000 Q-Levels
Progeny gains primary family name/title: SEMI RETIRE (Temp lock)
Benefit = -100,000 to cost, -500 Q-Levels
Progeny gains family name only: NO RETIRE (no effect)
Benefit = none
A(v) NPC collects all payments due and issues 'Completed_Dowry_Paper'
This 'Completed_Dowry_Paper' is needed for creation of progeny.
PROGENY EFFECTS
1. NO RETIRE
There are NO effects on this character.
No-Drop items cannot be transferred to the progeny at all.
Progeny receives 'Family Surname' and lesser progeny titles.
Progeny gains access to either RACE of character or 'spouse' or half-RACE if applicable.
Progeny gains starting faction benefits based (low % of) on main character
Progeny gains bonus to starting stats, or a racial benefit from one spouse (minor)
2. SEMI RETIRE
There are SOME effects on this character.
Initial char-lock (apart from access to their bank, say, via progeny)
for short time (days) as soon as progeny created, then impose
Main Char-lock (lasts weeks or months, eg 12 weeks = 72 days = 1728 housr)
Suggested: Work off char lock on main at a % rate by playing progeny.
Possible: Access to main is limited to timer (build up time by playing progeny)
Eg playing progeny for 1 hours gives 10 mins play acess to main char while it is locked and reduces lock time by 1 hour.
No-Drop items cannot be transferred to the progeny at all.
Progeny receives 'Family Surname' and some main char titles as they level up.
Progeny gains access to either RACE of character or 'spouse' or half-RACE if applicable.
Progeny gains starting faction benefits based (medium % of) on main character
Progeny gains bonus to starting stats, or a racial benefit from one spouse (medium)
3. RETIRE
There are MAJOR effects on this character.
Character is DELETED.
Possible statue/plaque in Hall_of_fame (dependent on level and 'fame')
No-Drop items can be transferred to the progeny (some discretion).
Progeny receives 'Family Surname' and all previous titles. (gained as they get to certain levels)
Progeny gains access to either RACE of character or 'spouse' or half-RACE if applicable.
Progeny gains starting faction benefits based (high % of) on main character
Progeny gains bonus to starting stats, and/or a racial benefit from one spouse (appreciable)
Progeny (possibly) gains access to prestige version of class (if same as main).
Progeny (possibly) gains access to variant or new class.
++END of Position Paper.
This, perhaps, is a way to implement a useful tool to re-invigorate a stale server.
It provides 'End-ish game' quests,
It provides a money and item sink.
It provides RP content.
It provides criteria to dissuade PL'ing 'to the end'
It allows 'Retire' (read: Delete), 'Semi-Retire' (read: temporary lockout) and 'No Retire' options.
Hopefully it will give others (and the DEVs) a framework from which to begin further discussion.
Feyshtey said:What if the offspring that you sacraficed our main in order to achieve were a new unlocked class specialization?
On the MUDs I've played, remorting (starting over from a max level character) generally either allowed you access to a specialised class or granted your newly minted character access to a special subset of skills only available to remorts. While incredibly painful to kill off a character you have spent a year building up, the first option (specialised character class) was most definitely seen as worth it due to the air of mystery and the flavour those classes brought to the game.
Myself, I would only kill off such a character if there was something fantastic at the end - such as access to the bard class for example.
@ Evoras
Wow. Nice write up! I like the process a lot, particularly the variation between 'full retire' and 'no retire'.
My thought, as I was reading through some of the posts, was that the main character would continue to be fully active while the progeny was being leveled up. Full skils, spells, etc. Simply so the player could continue to participate in high end content with friends, guild-mates, whatever have you. Once the progeny reached max level the option to 'retire' the first character would be made. Once the 'retire' function occured the progeny would accrue all benefits the progeny system would allow (titles, faction bonuses, etc). However, the main character would not be completely deleted but remain active without any previous skills, faction bonuses, etc. Essentially you could continue to log in the character but the play would be very limited (the character could never raid or play high level content again). Might allow for degredation of abilities and spells to character's formative days (newbie spells, etc.) and perhaps a unique exalted/retired title. This plays very well into the RP aspect also.
I also have to say that the ideas of hybridization [of classes] or new class introductions really excites me as does the possibilty of half-race combinations. With updated lore thrown in, you really are creating a new game without forcing a long term player to start from scratch. What a refresh!!!