I agree with numbers 1 and 2. 2 is especially important for those of us with less time to play than we did 15 years ago. I don't mind levelling slowly. Sitting around trying to find a group is no fun though.
I'm sure there are ways to encourage and facilitate grouping without dumbing everything down
"I get taht everyone who has already dropped money wants to no life a game again"
What was that about being constructive again?
Just because many of us are tired of the games with ! above NPCs heads and maps that lead you everywhere and the almost ZERO bit of social interaction in groups does not mean we want a game that takes over our lives. Hell, I've known plenty of people in WoW that do that with every new toon and new expansion that comes out...playing as much as possible to get to "THE END" only to be bored afterwards.
I can't speak for everyone, but slower pace of combat, less zerging, more time to interact with other players= WIN
As has been said before, VR is making a game for those of us who want what they have laid out in their tenets. And there are a LOT more than 50 or 100 of us, let me assure you. :P
I agree with Fazool why do so many think this game play means no life. Eq game play was way more forgiving of a life then most other games I have played. my self and my Wife started playing eq had a daughter one of the reasons we started playing was she got put on bed rest when the game came out and fell in love with it. But in thouse 17 years we have raised are daughter worked full time and bought a house. We did not got out to a lot of movies we did not hang out at bars ect. We stayed home played games and took care of are child. The pace in eq allowed us to rock here when she was young time to make bottles and change her. Later we had time to help with homework ect. As are daughter got olde she now games with us but still goes on dates holds a 3.5+ gpa has more common sence than most of the people I deal with at work every day. I found it much harder to balance real life with newer games.
Luckily for us, the developers will take advice from all walks of life. Regardless of how hardcore you are (a lot of accomplishment drops in this thread haha), or how new you are.
They do a good job of outline this in the Pantheon Difference.
If it looks slow, its supposed to be. If it looks like a major time investment, its because its supposed to be.
Everything you know about the last 10 years of MMO, is getting turned on its head for Pantheon. That is in fact the point. VR is not looking for 5 million subscribers. THey said it themselves, this will be a niche audience. Which I took it to mean "a specialized but profitable corner of the market."
All suggestions are good posts, some people just have opinions otherwise, but I think Kilsin (best Community Manager in All of Terminus) has been pretty damn active on reading them, and relating them back to the team.
P.S. I was a big fan of /who all 30 35 LFG style. It was simple and quick. I understand some people like UIs, but they just suck the life out of developers. I want them to instead go design me a fun encounter or some unreal loot. #JustMyOpinion
1. I see what you mean and there ws a loot all selection, but I also like the way you can link everything or certain things in group chat, so people can make decisions.
2. There were examples in EQ where this was available, and you could seea list of who was LFG to send tells, it may not yet be available in the current status as in the stream, but I did like the fact that the team we were following had to run by another group that was there- so really there were two groups in the current iteration of the game.
3. I thought mana regen was a sort of skill, it could be augmentted, but I remember as a 35 mage a necro doing their mana things in a group I was in? they kept always asking me if I noticed the impact of what they were doing, to be honest, I did not. either I had that much mana or I acccidentally did something that made my spells seem small cost.
4. oh this is great. I do like spell effects but you are right on raids it can get messy, colorfull, but messy; being able ot have the option for a sotto-voce spell effect during raids would be nice.
5. I am sure that will come, the video as I understand it was a sneek peek at basic core fundamentals. They speak of using the utity engine and I have seen some demos on line as to what it can do, someone posted a link here of some noble-evil warrior with rings as decorations and everywhere about him that was unity, so I am sure that will improve. Maybe nto the same aliber due ot the sheer size, but just because they are using cadmium yellow does not mean they are painting a Bob Ross.
6. Oh yes I am sure this will improve, some folks on the inside- ( one who likes ot sneek in like a rogue and start interesting posts in forums)- already compare the desir of the abilities in vanguard, where you had a miryiad of functions within the UI.
@Enitzu I would not be too mad at Krixus. Somewhere in your first post you basically said people were going to want to hang you, so I will assume you knew some people would find your post a little upsetting. This may not have been the best way to start off making new friends. Usually we start with hey this is who I am this is what I have done and this is what I am about or something like that.
The good news it that it is really no big deal if everyone has different opinions. In the end we are going to be stuck with the game that VR gives us so I wouldn't take all of this to heart. Perhaps Krixus post was a little harsh and I am sure that he does not speak for all of us (We want you in game) but it is not the worst thing that I have ever heard. This game will not be for everyone, it may not be for me (Doubt that). I would imagine a guy who's first post in the forums revolved mainly around stirring up as much drama as I have seen so far would be able to handle a little blunt sarcasm.
As they would in fuller house, guys, hug it out. =)
Enitzu said:...And from a community standpoint, the whole "Doesn't sound like this game is for you' bs you're spitting out is the worst thing you could be saying. This game has so much negative going around about it that a toxic community would kill it before it even begins. So do us all a favor and staple your lips please....This is exactly what my 'keep it constructive' comment was about. If you have no meaningful information feel free to see yourself out. Rather see people here who want to improve on things rather than be complacent with outdated material....
You are grossly mistaken, on basically all accounts. The MMORPG scene is a stinking pile right now. The basic concept of this entire game is to recreate the things you call "outdated material". It's ironic that your first post you use the above phrases like "see yourself out" and "staple your lips" and ""bs you're spitting" then try to sugarcoat it by pretending you are seeking meaningful constructive dialogue.
I've seen only a couple instances of toxic negativity. If anything, this has been the most enthusiastic and positive excitement filled forum I've ever seen since starting EQ sixteen (+) years ago. It's ironic that you stir up a hornets nest of arguments then insult the entire community as being toxic.
Its nice in your first post to say you would rather see people here who want to improve things. But, your every idea of "improving" is doing to Pantheon some of the things that ruined EQ in the first place.
Instead of saying the game isn't for you, I would say, "go and read every word about the game by VR and read the FAQ and the lore and the tenets. Read Brad's vision statement, watch the interviews and understand what they are trying to do" They are trying to create a challenging slow paced social game like the original EQ, without the trappnigs of instant gratification and race-leveling that ruined EQ.
CanadinaXegony said:Krixus said:2. /who all cleric 30 35 lfg
It doesn't sound like this game is for you
To be honest "It doesn't sound like this game is for you" is rather off putting, I have heard others say that alot in other games, not a way to encourage people to stick around, really. :)
He descibed exactly what this game isn't. I said it with zero snark. If you think 4-5 hours per level, even at low level, is way too much, and that the regen rate shown during the stream was too slow, then I stand by exactly what I said: This game is straight up not for you.
Krixus said:CanadinaXegony said:Krixus said:2. /who all cleric 30 35 lfg
It doesn't sound like this game is for you
To be honest "It doesn't sound like this game is for you" is rather off putting, I have heard others say that alot in other games, not a way to encourage people to stick around, really. :)
He descibed exactly what this game isn't. I said it with zero snark. If you think 4-5 hours per level, even at low level, is way too much, and that the regen rate shown during the stream was too slow, then I stand by exactly what I said: This game is straight up not for you.
He also said he would play like 8 hours a day and more on weekends. But we really don't know how fast leveling will be. Even EQ was quick to level for the first several levels.
Thanakos said:Krixus said:CanadinaXegony said:Krixus said:2. /who all cleric 30 35 lfg
It doesn't sound like this game is for you
To be honest "It doesn't sound like this game is for you" is rather off putting, I have heard others say that alot in other games, not a way to encourage people to stick around, really. :)
He descibed exactly what this game isn't. I said it with zero snark. If you think 4-5 hours per level, even at low level, is way too much, and that the regen rate shown during the stream was too slow, then I stand by exactly what I said: This game is straight up not for you.
He also said he would play like 8 hours a day and more on weekends. But we really don't know how fast leveling will be. Even EQ was quick to level for the first several levels.
Quick? I'm as guilty as anyone at romanticising things about EQ, but go hop on P1999 and without being twinked level to level 5. It's not going to happen in 1 night.
@Enitzu
1. Not a huge fan, especially if Pantheon has a lot of /no drop items like EQ. I'd rather not get asked everytime, are you sure you want to loot that /no drop item? If it's toggleable, don't care either way.
2. You could use a LFG window, or a poster, or a billboard, or taverns, etc., but Krixus is right, they'll only be as good as the player buy in, and, many won't use whatever system you implement. Moreso than LFG for me though, is leaving the group. As a warrior, I always hated knowing I may break up the group being the tank without anyone else being able to tank in the group, and I couldn't find a replacement. But, I'd take that system any day to the terrible LFG finders and ports of today.
3. Disagree 100%. Resource management is absolutely necessary for strategy within combat. If not, you can burn through all abilities each fight without any fear as you know you'll nearly instantly recover you resources. You'll have no strategy within combat like every other MMO today along with button mashing.
4/5/6. Pre-Pre-Alpha, not trying to be rude, but, it's really not worth mentioning. It's posts like these and others from the external communities that give companies and indie developers hestitation to show anything due to the negative backlash from communities regarding graphics in a pre-alpha state. I'd rather people be appreciative that they took the risk to show us the gameplay aspects, and, people realize that all of what they're seeing is placeholders or rudiementary compared to the finished product.
I retract this statement. :)
Please delete Mr Moderator. - When you have time.
Thanakos said:Krixus said:CanadinaXegony said:Krixus said:2. /who all cleric 30 35 lfg
It doesn't sound like this game is for you
To be honest "It doesn't sound like this game is for you" is rather off putting, I have heard others say that alot in other games, not a way to encourage people to stick around, really. :)
He descibed exactly what this game isn't. I said it with zero snark. If you think 4-5 hours per level, even at low level, is way too much, and that the regen rate shown during the stream was too slow, then I stand by exactly what I said: This game is straight up not for you.
He also said he would play like 8 hours a day and more on weekends. But we really don't know how fast leveling will be. Even EQ was quick to level for the first several levels.
So he's self described as "hardcore" but wants faster pulling, faster leveling and faster regen.
Mmkay.
Thanakos said:I agree with numbers 1 and 2. 2 is especially important for those of us with less time to play than we did 15 years ago. I don't mind levelling slowly. Sitting around trying to find a group is no fun though.
I could be wrong but to me it sounds like you want to play this game hardcore style but don't have the time to do it anymore. Like you want to be part of the first to clear raids and all that. The games where you can get to endgame content in a two weeks are already out there. They streamline the process of grouping up and questing and getting to max level. From what I've read though, this game is less about getting there and more about the journey. There will still be people who will play this hardcore and rush through it, but I know I won't be one of them. I'm aiming more for like 4th place in that sort of race.
So, try thinking about playing this a bit more relaxed and see if that helps.
fazool said:And....no. I want the exact 100% 180-degree total opposite of everything you said. Every single thing you said is, IMO, every single thing that's destroyed the entire genre by dumbing down the game with the lame argument that we need to level faster, not work at the game and have real lives to live and we should get instant gratification.
Enitzu said:1. Looting - In this day and age please for the love of god give me an auto loot. There needs to be a loot window but there really isn't a need for me to have to manually click everything. There also needs to various methods of dealing with loot. IE Master Loot, Free for All, Ordered Looting, etcPlease no auto looting. If an enemy dies out on the battlefield and we want to rifle through their corpse and backpack looking for loot to pillage form their corpse we should have to spend the time doing that. Also, we need to pay attention to where we kill mobs. Sometimes looting the body is just as dangerous because of nearby mobs and we need to consider that. Do NOT allow autolooting. Nothing i is more dumbed-down instant-gratificaiton garbage than sitting in one place 150' away from a mob, nuking it, watching it fall down dead and ka-ching! loot lands in our backpack. No, no and HELL no!
Enitzu said:2. LFG System - Original EQ had one of the worst systems ever known, none. Eventually they added in a window that would show anyone with the lfg tag and that is actually what I am recommending here. That system made it super fast and easy to create a group out of nothing. Even if it meant crossing the world to do so. Simple, easy, and effective. We don't need anything extravagent. We just need a way to get a group going quickly. *Note* I do NOT want an instant dungeon group finder. I do NOT want teleports to dungeons. And I most certainly do NOT want easy content. I want a simple way to build a group, that is all.No. No LFG system. At all. Ever. This again dumbed down the game massively and made it feel like a console kids game not a social MMORPG.
Enitzu said:3. Mana - Once thing I noticed was that we are essenitally back to 1999 EQ with our mana regen minus starring at the book. While this did work then, I don't think it will work as well today. Most of us that want this type of game now have full time jobs and families. While I would literally kill to play my fav game all day long again it is just not possible. Spending 4-5 hours for a level is just not realistic anymore. Faster mana regen means faster pulls which means faster xp. If mana regen will be as slow as it was in 99 then I already know that I will be rolling with a group of 2 monks, 2 rogues, 1 tank, and 1 heals. No point in having anything else since it's faster leveling. Now if items will provide mana regen increases or a stat that will do just that then we can work with that but that did not really exist outside of manastones in the original game.
Do *NOT* say "most of us" you do not speak for most of us. Put mana back in the game. Make it matter. Your statement illustrates that you are interested in nothing but fastest possible leveling and instant gratification.
I was going to continue arguing the rest of your points but need not continue further. This post gets my as the worst idea list yet. These "requests" are exactly everything that everyone hates about modern MMO's that ruined the genre. The only hope for Protf is to do exactly the opposite of this and ignore this mentality of instant gratification.
And literally everything I meant by most post was skipped over or misinterpreted.
Looting - Your opinion is no different than mine. Does that mean yours is right and mine wrong or vice versa? No. It means different people want different things. having the option for people who want auto loot really makes zero difference to those that don't. It won't change the way you play the game at all and it gives no advantage to anyone. If anything it's a disadvantage if weight plays a factor. Seriously this is like the 1 thing out of everything I said that makes zero difference to anyone. If it wasn't put in fine, it wouldn't bother me.
LFG - You say this is what dumbed down the game yet I don't even think you know what I am talking about. If you are saying that things like the dungeon finders in todays games, then yes I agree with you. But the system I am talking about is no different than what you had in EQ. The only difference is I don't have to do /who 10 different times to find the people to talk to. Instead I open a window and can send whispers to everyone from there. Again, please read all the posts as I went into more detail there.
Mana - You know I typed this whole big statement before I just said screw it lol. At this point it's not worth arguing with people over. I don't know exactly how mana feels in game and until I do I can't justify asking for the changes I felt from the video. Will Readdress this if needed come Alpha.
"I was going to continue arguing the rest of your points but need not continue further. This post gets my as the worst idea list yet. These "requests" are exactly everything that everyone hates about modern MMO's that ruined the genre. The only hope for Protf is to do exactly the opposite of this and ignore this mentality of instant gratification."
Good. I'm glad I can piss off the white knights. Because here's the deal, you can white knight and fanboi all day long but if you look at every other game over the past 5 years you can plainly see how bad they have failed. And everyone has failed because the white knights refused to look at others points of view. The dev's refused to be open to change. So white knight away because the only one that will end up hurt in the end is you. Say what you want about catering to a niche crowd but face facts. No game can survive without a playerbase and if you think for a second that I'm wrong then you are far too delusional to me to bother talking to. This game has an incredibly small following currently. And as many as I've tried to bring here, these forums have driven them away and we haven't even hit alpha. The ideas are great. But reality is something completely different. You say I want instant gratification but I can link you to posts on multiple forums where I have said just the opposite. What I want is for you to be realistic and see that what you want for this game will keep the playerbase sub 1k players. Which not only hurts you as a player but the company as a whole. Niche does not need to mean dead. You want niche go play EQ right now. That's niche. And they still have some full TLP servers. What you are asking for isn't niche, it's hardcore. Hell why not ask for perma death with a lvl 10 cap and it take 100 hours per level oh and of course ffa pvp with full loot. You want hardcore then be hardcore. Otherwise, get with reality
Krixus said:Thanakos said:Krixus said:CanadinaXegony said:Krixus said:2. /who all cleric 30 35 lfg
It doesn't sound like this game is for you
To be honest "It doesn't sound like this game is for you" is rather off putting, I have heard others say that alot in other games, not a way to encourage people to stick around, really. :)
He descibed exactly what this game isn't. I said it with zero snark. If you think 4-5 hours per level, even at low level, is way too much, and that the regen rate shown during the stream was too slow, then I stand by exactly what I said: This game is straight up not for you.
He also said he would play like 8 hours a day and more on weekends. But we really don't know how fast leveling will be. Even EQ was quick to level for the first several levels.
Quick? I'm as guilty as anyone at romanticising things about EQ, but go hop on P1999 and without being twinked level to level 5. It's not going to happen in 1 night.
Currently have 2 lvl 60s on p99. First took under a month real time to cap the 2nd was without a static group so took around 2 months. Neither of which took near as long as you state this game should. Hell even back at launch it didn't take me 3 months to 50 with no idea of what I was doing back then.
I think people all remember EQ differently. Some it took people a really long time to level and that's fine. But in todays day and age do you honestly think it would take you the same amount of time? With all the info available and all you know about MMOs in general now? I sure don't.
The levels even back then were not as long as people remember them. Even hell levels, IE 57, didn't take 5 hours of grinding. People just remember them as such because it felt like it. This is where I say get with the reality of things. Don't go by what you remember from 15 years ago. Get the facts of it. You have plenty of time. Go level on p99 and see for yourself.
Pantz said:I could be wrong but to me it sounds like you want to play this game hardcore style but don't have the time to do it anymore. Like you want to be part of the first to clear raids and all that. The games where you can get to endgame content in a two weeks are already out there. They streamline the process of grouping up and questing and getting to max level. From what I've read though, this game is less about getting there and more about the journey. There will still be people who will play this hardcore and rush through it, but I know I won't be one of them. I'm aiming more for like 4th place in that sort of race.
So, try thinking about playing this a bit more relaxed and see if that helps.
Any way it goes I will be playing hardcore style. I already have my group set up and will have at least a week off work for launch. That's a given. What I want to do is try to ensure that the game doesn't go overboard with everyone wanting rediculously tedious gameplay. Tedious doesn't mean fun or engaging. I want the game to draw in people. Even those people who played the games we call shitty. I want this game to show them that there is a better way to do MMOs. And we can do all that. Just have to be open to it. I am not saying change the core foundations. I don't want that. At all. Brad knows what hes doing and I have faith in him.
Enitzu said:...Good. I'm glad I can piss off the white knights. Because here's the deal, you can white knight and fanboi all day long but if you look at every other game over the past 5 years you can plainly see how bad they have failed. And everyone has failed because the white knights refused to look at others points of view. The dev's refused to be open to change. So white knight away because the only one that will end up hurt in the end is you. Say what you want about catering to a niche crowd but face facts. No game can survive without a playerbase and if you think for a second that I'm wrong then you are far too delusional to me to bother talking to. This game has an incredibly small following currently. And as many as I've tried to bring here, these forums have driven them away and we haven't even hit alpha. The ideas are great. But reality is something completely different. You say I want instant gratification but I can link you to posts on multiple forums where I have said just the opposite. What I want is for you to be realistic and see that what you want for this game will keep the playerbase sub 1k players. Which not only hurts you as a player but the company as a whole. Niche does not need to mean dead. You want niche go play EQ right now. That's niche. And they still have some full TLP servers. What you are asking for isn't niche, it's hardcore. Hell why not ask for perma death with a lvl 10 cap and it take 100 hours per level oh and of course ffa pvp with full loot. You want hardcore then be hardcore. Otherwise, get with reality
Stop calling names and insulting people. By saying that you are glad to piss people off you admit to nothing more than trolling.
Stop arguing that the foundational vision of VR should change. They already said they are specifically building a game for the niche players who want the old experience.
Wolfsong said:Thanakos said:I agree with numbers 1 and 2. 2 is especially important for those of us with less time to play than we did 15 years ago. I don't mind levelling slowly. Sitting around trying to find a group is no fun though.
What I don't understand is why people assume there weren't people playing EQ1, UO, AC1, FFXI, etc... who also had lives, families, jobs/careers, going to college, etc. There were. I knew and met many of them myself. Yet they still found time to play, and still managed to achieve what they wanted and enjoy themselves.
A RL friend of mine is married with a child, a full time job, and all the responsibilities that go with it. He managed to put together a group to run a bunch of FFXI's content. They completed Zilart, CoP (pre-nerf), and Aht Urghan, they ran Dynamis, Sky and Sea. They did all kinds of stuff. And they did it all on limited time to play. How? Planning and prioritizing their time.
There is ahuge difference between FFXI and EQ though. Played them both myself. FFXI you could schedule everything. EQ however was all open world. You were either there when it spawned or you missed out. There was no raid at 8 est. It was whenever it popped plain and simple. FFXI had a lot of instanced content taht could be done at any time on anyones schedule. That is where the difference and no lifing comes into play. Those that can wake up at 4am to log on and kill bosses and play through day and night have a big advantage in these types of games. And you can be assured there will be guilds on that will only recruit people that can be on at any time of the day and night.
Enitzu said:Currently have 2 lvl 60s on p99. First took under a month real time to cap the 2nd was without a static group so took around 2 months. Neither of which took near as long as you state this game should. Hell even back at launch it didn't take me 3 months to 50 with no idea of what I was doing back then.
I think people all remember EQ differently. Some it took people a really long time to level and that's fine. But in todays day and age do you honestly think it would take you the same amount of time? With all the info available and all you know about MMOs in general now? I sure don't.
The levels even back then were not as long as people remember them. Even hell levels, IE 57, didn't take 5 hours of grinding. People just remember them as such because it felt like it. This is where I say get with the reality of things. Don't go by what you remember from 15 years ago. Get the facts of it. You have plenty of time. Go level on p99 and see for yourself.
Project1999 is in not very accurate to how the game was. EQmac being in PoP was closer to how EverQuest was in 1999 than Project1999
fazool said:Enitzu said:...Good. I'm glad I can piss off the white knights. Because here's the deal, you can white knight and fanboi all day long but if you look at every other game over the past 5 years you can plainly see how bad they have failed. And everyone has failed because the white knights refused to look at others points of view. The dev's refused to be open to change. So white knight away because the only one that will end up hurt in the end is you. Say what you want about catering to a niche crowd but face facts. No game can survive without a playerbase and if you think for a second that I'm wrong then you are far too delusional to me to bother talking to. This game has an incredibly small following currently. And as many as I've tried to bring here, these forums have driven them away and we haven't even hit alpha. The ideas are great. But reality is something completely different. You say I want instant gratification but I can link you to posts on multiple forums where I have said just the opposite. What I want is for you to be realistic and see that what you want for this game will keep the playerbase sub 1k players. Which not only hurts you as a player but the company as a whole. Niche does not need to mean dead. You want niche go play EQ right now. That's niche. And they still have some full TLP servers. What you are asking for isn't niche, it's hardcore. Hell why not ask for perma death with a lvl 10 cap and it take 100 hours per level oh and of course ffa pvp with full loot. You want hardcore then be hardcore. Otherwise, get with reality
Stop calling names and insulting people. By saying that you are glad to piss people off you admit to nothing more than trolling.
Stop arguing that the foundational vision of VR should change. They already said they are specifically building a game for the niche players who want the old experience.
You basically trash me and my thoughts then get upset when i do the same. Kudos. And no I'm not trolling. If you are going to be so one sighted with blinders on then yes I'm glad I can annoy you because your one sighted vision doesn't allow you to see the bigger picture. And if you had even tried to comprehend what I've been saying then you would see that nothing I have said has been against what brad has stated in anything ever except for the open world bosses. I proposed adding a way to do both for those without the ability to be online 24/7.
You keep assuming that I'm this anti EQ person ... I still to this day play EQ. I play every game that has ever touted the hardcore mentality. I want a hard game. But again, hard doesn't mean tedious and boring. Changing Quality of life things to push a better version of EQ isn't a bad thing. The fact that all you want is a remake of EQ with better graphics is what's bad. Not being open to making things better is bad. Sorry I try to bring more people to a game where grouping is key. I want more people to experience what I did way back when but getting people to take that first step when all they see are huge time sinks is rough. Time sinks are needed in a game you just can't go over board with them or people see it as a waste.
halflingwarrior said:Enitzu said:Currently have 2 lvl 60s on p99. First took under a month real time to cap the 2nd was without a static group so took around 2 months. Neither of which took near as long as you state this game should. Hell even back at launch it didn't take me 3 months to 50 with no idea of what I was doing back then.
I think people all remember EQ differently. Some it took people a really long time to level and that's fine. But in todays day and age do you honestly think it would take you the same amount of time? With all the info available and all you know about MMOs in general now? I sure don't.
The levels even back then were not as long as people remember them. Even hell levels, IE 57, didn't take 5 hours of grinding. People just remember them as such because it felt like it. This is where I say get with the reality of things. Don't go by what you remember from 15 years ago. Get the facts of it. You have plenty of time. Go level on p99 and see for yourself.
Project1999 is in not very accurate to how the game was. EQmac being in PoP was closer to how EverQuest was in 1999 than Project1999
True but p99 has more of a playerbase so easier to group imo. Having to solo or sit idle for long periods of time will skew any type of testing and p99 isn't that far off from original. At least imo
Wolfsong said:Thanakos said:I agree with numbers 1 and 2. 2 is especially important for those of us with less time to play than we did 15 years ago. I don't mind levelling slowly. Sitting around trying to find a group is no fun though.
What I don't understand is why people assume there weren't people playing EQ1, UO, AC1, FFXI, etc... who also had lives, families, jobs/careers, going to college, etc. There were. I knew and met many of them myself. Yet they still found time to play, and still managed to achieve what they wanted and enjoy themselves.
A RL friend of mine is married with a child, a full time job, and all the responsibilities that go with it. He managed to put together a group to run a bunch of FFXI's content. They completed Zilart, CoP (pre-nerf), and Aht Urghan, they ran Dynamis, Sky and Sea. They did all kinds of stuff. And they did it all on limited time to play. How? Planning and prioritizing their time.
Meanwhile, I had only a full-time job, but otherwise all the time in the world to play FFXI, and I didn't accomplish even half of what he did. Why? My priorities were different. I was more the type to log in and just do whatever, even if that meant sitting at the stairs by the L. Jeuno Auction House, talking to friends. But that was my playstyle, and I had a blast. I wasn't nearly as focused or motivated as he was.
In my MMO travels through numerous MMOs, I've met business owners, people holding down two jobs and going to school.... all kinds of situations... and they all managed to play the game and get things done.
The difference between them, and others was that they understood their life circumstances would not allow them to play as they could when they were younger, with more time and less responsibility. They understood their time was more limited, and so they realized that they'd have to alter their priorities, adjust their expectations, and plan their time out accordingly. They didn't expect that MMO devs should change their design because they were now grown up and responsible adults - that mentality has always struck me as awfully self-centered, and yet I see it a lot from the adult crowd. Our personal life circumstances are not VR's problem, and it's not their responsibility to design their game to cater to us, just because "we grew up". And yes, I include myself in that "our".
And besides, there are now younger folk coming to the genre who are in the position we once were... young, little responsibility and tons of free time to play. Why shouldn't they get the same experience we did? Why does it all have to change now for us specifically? What makes us so darn special and entitled?
If Pantheon has a pace, or a demand for time that doesn't fall in line with what someone feels they can manage, or even want to.. that's not a sign that the design is flawed and needs to be changed. It's simply a sign that the game may not be a good fit for them, and that's okay.
I don't mind the game being catered more towards the hardcore player. It just really sucks spending 2 hours LFG when you only have 3 to play. I don't even have the answer but I really didn't enjoy having to solo when I had less time to play. That kind of defeats the whole grouping focus of the game.
I guess one way around it is to bring your friends who have have about the same amount of time to play as you. That's probably what I'll do in Pantheon but it's tougher when you can't bring friends along. It's just something for devs to think about. I'm not really asking for any changes.