The problem is that this isn't the same internet as 20 years ago, let alone the same game.
Information propagates faster than the speed of sound on the modern internet. This simply was not so, back in the day. If there is a community site I'll probably be posting the quest steps for my epic as I discover them, if I end up being the person to discover them. I'm not alone in this, I'm sure.
Hieromonk said:Vandraad said:Hieromonk said:LULZ,
So, someone who just solved a quest, (that has taken him and a handful of Guildmates 4 months of questing to find and complete...) and the first thing they do is share it openly & not hold on to the secret and run the rest of their guild threw the quest..? That 10k others matter more than themselves and their friends and guildmates..?
Finding a clue in a quest, or completing a quest nobody knows how to is almost like an exploit. You are not going to be telling people about your secret.
I don't know what EQ you played, but nobody but the biggest retards shared their valuable quest info. It kept other guilds at bay..
So that it is not "laid out" for them.
lulz.
I don't know what EQ1 you played, but I happen to remember how the wizard community came together across all servers to openly share their thoughts, breakthroughs, NPC conversations, theories, successed and failures for the original version of the wizard epic 1.0. Every successful step of the quest was kept up-to-date with all relevant information. Hundreds of us were in a 3rd party chat channel when the first wizard completed his epic. The amount of congratulations, well wishes and just plain old joy was quite something to behold. Too bad your EQ1 wasn't as good as mine.
Correct, and if you look back to 1999 and 2000 you can see all then people coming together on Ally's sharing information.
That was 16 years ago, when Guilds were not that as competitive, or even fully developed. I was porting all over the world trying to get clues for my Wizard epic. Many people kept legs of their Quests secret, while other found and shared. Most sane & competitive people are not going to blurt out their secrets. I know quests that send many people scurrying and using /ooc to solve.. the same quests today would not be a community effort, but a secret one.
In today competivie and contested worlds... would YOU openly share to the server.. a epic secret you justy stumbled upon... ?? Do you think you would remain in your guild if you started shouting out seccrets, or posting them online... do you think that would be fair to your other guild mates who are spending their time looking and fiding those clues..?
Do you see how you are trying to use Yourself (and 17 years) as a reason to rebuttal what I said about human nature...
So... go ahead and spend your time solving a quest, just make sure to give out all the info so everyone on the serever can complete it, perhaps before you do. Seems like most forfront Guilds work for the general populace and not for their faithful Guildmates...?
ergo: We all know what people did in EQ... we know this. Just because ON YOUR SERVER for a leg of the Wizard Epic quest, it was a community endevour.. does not mean all information on all epic quests were shared. Because I know for a fact it was not and most new information was kept hidden from others.
And that is all I am saying. Is that there will not be a place for early adopters of Pantheon to go and just look stuff up. That information & knowledge is compiled over time (1 ~2 years). It is not instant.
The Paladin Communty on the Forums came together publishing each step. This was an effort by Paladins on 4 or 5 different servers. Same with the wizards they had an entire thread posted that wizzies from different servers shared the next step. Pretty sure the Necro and Monk weapon was done the same way. So your arguement was just proved moot yet again.Just becausew you think something is right doesnt mean the facts shown are wrong.
The Paladin Communty on the Forums came together publishing each step. This was an effort by Paladins on 4 or 5 different servers. Same with the wizards they had an entire thread posted that wizzies from different servers shared the next step. Pretty sure the Necro and Monk weapon was done the same way. So your arguement was just proved moot yet again.Just becausew you think something is right doesnt mean the facts shown are wrong.
Warrior community came together really well also. I wasnt close to first with lightsabers gamewide but I was iirc second on my server and ONLY because folks in other guilds helped with Sev when I put out the call. Not all the warriors in those guilds had there lightsabers yet but were willing to help and cheering me on. Warrior class forums (Ring of Steel? so long ago) openly shared info. I dont recall anyone anywhere purposefully holding info back, across the classes.
Epics should be hard but not insane. The pride I felt when recieving my wizard's epic was intense, especially linking it to the guild chat and thanking them and getting the congratulations. The mage epic was insane though. Rare spawns and that have rare drops that everyone on the sever is after. Never finished that one but I had tons of respect for the people that did. I wonder if the epics in pantheon will be more hard or insane.
I am not a hardcore raider. I am a team player that usually progresses in a guild over a greater time period. We have good times along the way, but I am not first at anything, I simply don't have the time to dump into it like my younger years.
So coming from someone who struggles long and hard for Epic gear, it should be HARD to get. You can't argue that... These are special feats that not everyone can get.
I am even okay with it even starting with a character specific "rare" drop somewhere along your journey. Only when you obtain that rare item can you even begin the other parts. And eventually it should involve higher level / area drops. This would "truly" make it epic... Life is but chance and circumstances, you should only stand back and admire someone who was fortunate enough, then driven enough to be fated such a gift.
Sorry but I don't even like the idea of everyone even being able to start the quest easily, let's be real here what "epic" means. It should go without saying that the people exploring the world with many hours and time, should over time, be the ones most fortunate (increased odds) of finding the rare initial piece. But the cool thing about it, everyone still has a chance yet not all will see it through...
I have a question for Mr. "Dune". In VG they was a white weapon piece that dropped off trash mobs that I only ever got once or twice while playing VG. I tried to follow the questing on it, but it died out and I never finished it and I remember a few people talk about it. Was it and epic weapon quest? Was the quest ever finish able? Ok sorry a few questions. The piece of weapon was white and I believe in the discription it had something to the effect it would become a bad*** weapon if you ever finished it.
Kazingathi said:I have a question for Mr. "Dune". In VG they was a white weapon piece that dropped off trash mobs that I only ever got once or twice while playing VG. I tried to follow the questing on it, but it died out and I never finished it and I remember a few people talk about it. Was it and epic weapon quest? Was the quest ever finish able? Ok sorry a few questions. The piece of weapon was white and I believe in the discription it had something to the effect it would become a bad*** weapon if you ever finished it.
Sounds like the Jharru weapons near Bridge of Destiny, or if it was earlier game it may have been the Tomb of Lord Tsang or w/e it was called.
Liav said:Kazingathi said:I have a question for Mr. "Dune". In VG they was a white weapon piece that dropped off trash mobs that I only ever got once or twice while playing VG. I tried to follow the questing on it, but it died out and I never finished it and I remember a few people talk about it. Was it and epic weapon quest? Was the quest ever finish able? Ok sorry a few questions. The piece of weapon was white and I believe in the discription it had something to the effect it would become a bad*** weapon if you ever finished it.
Sounds like the Jharru weapons near Bridge of Destiny, or if it was earlier game it may have been the Tomb of Lord Tsang or w/e it was called.
That was my initial thought too, Jharru weapon (high-level) or ToLT (low-level). I am struggling to remember any other weapon piece drops other than Virak and just fluff seasonal events.
The idea that EVERYONE is entitled to an Epic Weapon is laughable and extremely childish. It is after all called a EPIC quest.
I think a good many people are loosing sight of my earlier remarks regarding keeping secret info, regarding hard quests, or Epic quests.
A good many people have attempted to tell me about how, or what the community did in EQ 15 years ago. I know all of this I was on the forfront of all of this. People LOVED to help with Pally Epic, because it was the ONLY one in the game. Same with many of the early Epics, they were all a Community driven quest. Today, that freedom of knowledge no longer applies.
MMORPG are a lifestyle now and Guilds are much more established, & there is pristige and bravado amonst guilds now. I had already asked those who are having trouble with the concept of human nature, to respond if they would reveal their quest secrets to the general populace in Pantheon. Or how they think their own guild would feel if YOU/THEY released that secret info to the general populace and allow their hard earned work to leek out.
None of those people have replied... because we already know the answer. (It is human nature to harbor and hoard)
Now, the point being is that 6~8 month after release, people are not going to be jamming some website and connecting the dots on their epic. Pantheon is going to be like early EQ where the PLAYERS have to figure things out. And that Most Warriors won't know where to even begin their quest, let alone see it finished in 6 months time.
1999 vs 2017
Guilds keep things hidden & secret (internal). If you do not believe that, you are ignorant of human nature. That does not mean ALL INFORMATION, or ALL SECRETS, just that most of the players and guilds will be secretive with their hard earned knowledge. Knowledge is power..
The people who claim they will share their hard earned knowledge & will give it out freely (as they claim here)... are the same people who won't be on the forfront of questing, and would later want to pick up a guide (surf the internet) and do the connect the dots questing... after people have already completed their Epics.
Irony, there are spies in many guilds, because secrets... and yet many here claim their Guild works for everyone on the server, & shares openly...
Hieromonk said:
The idea that EVERYONE is entitled to an Epic Weapon is laughable and extremely childish. It is after all called a EPIC quest.
I think a good many people are loosing sight of my earlier remarks regarding keeping secret info, regarding hard quests, or Epic quests.
A good many people have attempted to tell me about how, or what the community did in EQ 15 years ago. I know all of this I was on the forfront of all of this. People LOVED to help with Pally Epic, because it was the ONLY one in the game. Same with many of the early Epics, they were all a Community driven quest. Today, that freedom of knowledge no longer applies.
MMORPG are a lifestyle now and Guilds are much more established, & there is pristige and bravado amonst guilds now. I had already asked those who are having trouble with the concept of human nature, to respond if they would reveal their quest secrets to the general populace in Pantheon. Or how they think their own guild would feel if YOU/THEY released that secret info to the general populace and allow their hard earned work to leek out.
None of those people have replied... because we already know the answer. (It is human nature to harbor and hoard)
Now, the point being is that 6~8 month after release, people are not going to be jamming some website and connecting the dots on their epic. Pantheon is going to be like early EQ where the PLAYERS have to figure things out. And that Most Warriors won't know where to even begin their quest, let alone see it finished in 6 months time.
1999 vs 2017Guilds keep things hidden & secret (internal). If you do not believe that, you are ignorant of human nature. That does not mean ALL INFORMATION, or ALL SECRETS, just that most of the players and guilds will be secretive with their hard earned knowledge. Knowledge is power..
The people who claim they will share their hard earned knowledge & will give it out freely (as they claim here)... are the same people who won't be on the forfront of questing, and would later want to pick up a guide (surf the internet) and do the connect the dots questing... after people have already completed their Epics.
Irony, there are spies in many guilds, because secrets... and yet many here claim their Guild works for everyone on the server, & shares openly...
I have to question you playing any MMO at this point on Zek server Pandemonium was one of the most established guilds if not the best on the server. Highly competitive as well as an elite access guild and no one cared if we helped or shared epic weapons secrets and that was a PVP servers we were at war with everyone and would spend days blocking raids from killing contested. You cant get any more competeivie as that and no one did it better then us
Any weapon line they put in game will be online in days after it has been compelted regardless of what your guild might say. Someone always wants to be the hero or the know it all
Hieromonk lives in a fantasy world.
He has an extremely distorted view of how EQ actually was early on, and an extremely distorted/unsubstantiated view of what Pantheon is going to be. It really isn't worth replying to his walls of texts at this point. I'm having a difficult time telling if he's just trolling or if he actually believes some of the things he's saying.
I wouldn't be surprised if the wiki is loaded with information less than a month after Pantheon's release. There's nothing you can do about it. Just let it happen.
shh bb is ok
Liav said:Hieromonk lives in a fantasy world.
He has an extremely distorted view of how EQ actually was early on, and an extremely distorted/unsubstantiated view of what Pantheon is going to be. It really isn't worth replying to his walls of texts at this point. I'm having a difficult time telling if he's just trolling or if he actually believes some of the things he's saying.
I wouldn't be surprised if the wiki is loaded with information less than a month after Pantheon's release. There's nothing you can do about it. Just let it happen.
shh bb is ok
I know I know Don't feed the bridge trolls.......
Kalgore said:Liav said:Hieromonk lives in a fantasy world.
He has an extremely distorted view of how EQ actually was early on, and an extremely distorted/unsubstantiated view of what Pantheon is going to be. It really isn't worth replying to his walls of texts at this point. I'm having a difficult time telling if he's just trolling or if he actually believes some of the things he's saying.
I wouldn't be surprised if the wiki is loaded with information less than a month after Pantheon's release. There's nothing you can do about it. Just let it happen.
shh bb is ok
I know I know Don't feed the bridge trolls.......
Just wanted to point out an observation...
You two realize that you are the only two people agreeing with each other in about every topic/thread that you post in. It's almost as if you both are one in the same person and attempting to make it look like someone agrees with you. It's also a bit disheartening that you resort to insulting or trying to put someone down instead of debating the topics like adults.
In regards to the OP, I don't believe any "EPIC" quest should be easily attainable or via solo methods. We have been led to believe that this is a community based game, if that's true then people are going to have to make some friends and talk to people if they want to accomplish certain things in game. If just anyone could finish an "EPIC" quest solo... it wouldn't be an "EPIC" quest in the first place.
Niien said:Kalgore said:Liav said:Hieromonk lives in a fantasy world.
He has an extremely distorted view of how EQ actually was early on, and an extremely distorted/unsubstantiated view of what Pantheon is going to be. It really isn't worth replying to his walls of texts at this point. I'm having a difficult time telling if he's just trolling or if he actually believes some of the things he's saying.
I wouldn't be surprised if the wiki is loaded with information less than a month after Pantheon's release. There's nothing you can do about it. Just let it happen.
shh bb is ok
I know I know Don't feed the bridge trolls.......
Just wanted to point out an observation...
You two realize that you are the only two people agreeing with each other in about every topic/thread that you post in. It's almost as if you both are one in the same person and attempting to make it look like someone agrees with you. It's also a bit disheartening that you resort to insulting or trying to put someone down instead of debating the topics like adults.
In regards to the OP, I don't believe any "EPIC" quest should be easily attainable or via solo methods. We have been led to believe that this is a community based game, if that's true then people are going to have to make some friends and talk to people if they want to accomplish certain things in game. If just anyone could finish an "EPIC" quest solo... it wouldn't be an "EPIC" quest in the first place.
Actually if you look back you will see BOTH of us explain the different topics with things like facts and experaince. The troll is on the other hand just spouting off the same stuff over and over and ignoring more then us two when people came out and said Epic weapons was a team effort across servers. He has also on different threads said stuff that is a complete lie only to have Kilsen come out with links proving him wrong.
I stand 100 percent by my comments he is a troll
Niien said:Just wanted to point out an observation...
You two realize that you are the only two people agreeing with each other in about every topic/thread that you post in. It's almost as if you both are one in the same person and attempting to make it look like someone agrees with you. It's also a bit disheartening that you resort to insulting or trying to put someone down instead of debating the topics like adults.
There isn't anything to debate, that's the point. A giant wall of text full of speculation and extremely inaccurate preaching is not something that anyone can reasonably engage with. I'm completely willing to debate with someone who actually poses an argument, but I have nothing but ire for people who post giant walls of text full of crap.
Also I can't help but see the irony in the fact that, in the same sentence you're condemning me for being insulting, you turn around and insult me.
OakKnower said:I think initially some people are likely to withold key information regarding epics, quests, raid strats, etc. Eventually, the more people accomplish the material the more the information will become public knowledge. I don't really see a problem with it tbh.
Just from personal experience, I don't post anything online as I believe they are just as bad as spoilers for a new movie. This might be more for people who want to show off as the know it all.
On the other hand I would give friends and guild mates information if they are actively trying to help themselves and not looking for free hand outs without doing any of the work.
Epics are nice, but the thing i remember most about the epics is that not all epics were created equal. some were much harder to obtain than others. like the mage epic vs cleric epic. mage epic was really hard because of the Pegasus Feathercloak, i mean really why make a piece of gear with such a useful function like levi All/All and put it on a mob so hard to find and kill with an abominable drop rate?
so i would like to see epics use items that are only useable by the class, or that arent useful to others to loot. especially on those hard to find mobs. yes the epic should be hard, but the thing that is making it hard should not be because everyone and thier brother is killing the mobs you need for the epic because they find the quest piece usefull for themselves.
also i would like to see the raid mobs needed for the epics be triggered encounters. like if i take the orb of everlasting light to the tower of darkness and run it to the top placing it on the pedestal then the yinyang wizard of doom that my summoner needs to finish his epic should spawn. and there should Always be the quest item on the wizard. or the orb of light would transform or something like that.
so basically what i would like to see for epics is the following:
1. a successful epic raid always drops the epic piece.
2. randomized loot table on the epic mob. (helpers should be rewarded)
3. raids can be triggered by the person on the quest when they get to that point. no need to wait for the raid mob to respawn.
4. epics should always be useful. these things are epic, how epic can they be if they get replaced after a couple expansions.
5. epics should be eternallly hard to get. it should be impossible to outlevel the quest and trivialize it. (like myself two boxing ragefire for the cleric epic at level 65)
PS. i had much fun on my cleric linking the cloak to mages that i knew were still trying to get it for thier epics....
Gawd said:4. epics should always be useful. these things are epic, how epic can they be if they get replaced after a couple expansions.
I think Vanguard did this best. If the game had survived, presumably, the epics were actually augmentations that could be fitted into top-end weapons with "Soul" slots. I liked this because it would keep the epics relevant forever, both in appearance and effect.
Sorry Kilsin and Liav it wasnt Lord Tsangs or The high end epic I got the piece before even APW came out. I'm guessing it was probably a start to an Epic weapon quest when VG first came out, just guessing it never got finished because of the deal with pushing VG out unfinished. Like I said before it dropped off of like a 2 dot trash mob, in thestra though I'm betting it was just a UR drop even though it was white cause only a few had it and I knew some of them. And I believe the piece was a clicky that you could click in your inventory and it started the Quest. I believe there where even some posts on it when the new Epic weapon raid quest came out that some thought that you might have to have that and that they finally finished the quest. Just thought I would ask "Dune" if he remembered putting and epic weapon Quest in before he first left VG. I know I tried to do the quest line I just don't remember it very well and how far I got cause I'm pretty sure I did do some of the quests.
Leave the name calling, personal attacks and immaturity out of these threads please, I do not want to be forced to go through and delete attacking posts, this community is better than that. If you do not agree with something someone says, either counter it with a mature reply or ignore it and leave it for someone else, you are not obligated or forced to respond to every opinion that you do not agree with, take a breath, relax and move on, it's not the end of the world.
I will not continue to warn about this either, further action will be taken if people cannot abide by the forum guidelines which can be found here: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1595/pantheon-developer-forum-guidelines
Kazingathi said:Sorry Kilsin and Liav it wasnt Lord Tsangs or The high end epic I got the piece before even APW came out. I'm guessing it was probably a start to an Epic weapon quest when VG first came out, just guessing it never got finished because of the deal with pushing VG out unfinished. Like I said before it dropped off of like a 2 dot trash mob, in thestra though I'm betting it was just a UR drop even though it was white cause only a few had it and I knew some of them. And I believe the piece was a clicky that you could click in your inventory and it started the Quest. I believe there where even some posts on it when the new Epic weapon raid quest came out that some thought that you might have to have that and that they finally finished the quest. Just thought I would ask "Dune" if he remembered putting and epic weapon Quest in before he first left VG. I know I tried to do the quest line I just don't remember it very well and how far I got cause I'm pretty sure I did do some of the quests.
Hmm, it sounds vaguely familiar but my memory is hazy after not having a VG fix for so long! I will run it by Brad and see if he remembers :)