Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Epic quest lines

    • 2130 posts
    February 13, 2016 9:57 AM PST

    Hieromonk, why are you so frustrating? Literally every thread you post in, you're trying to describe the game like you've already played it.

    Give it a rest already. You don't know ****, and neither do we.

    • 1778 posts
    February 13, 2016 10:21 AM PST
    I dont know either. But Im sure I dont need to listen to him or otherwise Id get the impression that XIs community was much better and friendlier than EQ. So just guessing he doesnt represent the majority of EQ players. Because I definitely dont want to play in whatever community he did. I could maybe understand if it was a PvP server, but on a PvE server? Really?
    • 170 posts
    February 13, 2016 11:01 AM PST

    As someone who had only a couple of EPIC weapons I think they are on the right path. I remember Hate raid and Hate raid and no drop to get my SK his epic but I do remember sporting the epic claws my beastlord had. To me EPIC needs to be something you might never get but reachable enough that you'll continue to try.

    • 2419 posts
    February 13, 2016 11:44 AM PST

    Hieromonk said:

    LULZ,

    So, someone who just solved a quest, (that has taken him and a handful of Guildmates 4 months of questing to find and complete...)  and the first thing they do is share it openly & not hold on to the secret and run the rest of their guild threw the quest..?  That 10k others matter more than themselves and their friends and guildmates..?

    Finding a clue in a quest, or completing a quest nobody knows how to is almost like an exploit. You are not going to be telling people about your secret.

    I don't know what EQ you played, but nobody but the biggest retards shared their valuable quest info. It kept other guilds at bay..  

    So that it is not "laid out" for them.

    lulz.

    I don't know what EQ1 you played, but I happen to remember how the wizard community came together across all servers to openly share their thoughts, breakthroughs, NPC conversations, theories, successed and failures for the original version of the wizard epic 1.0.  Every successful step of the quest was kept up-to-date with all relevant information.  Hundreds of us were in a 3rd party chat channel when the first wizard completed his epic.  The amount of congratulations, well wishes and just plain old joy was quite something to behold.  Too bad your EQ1 wasn't as good as mine.

    • 781 posts
    February 13, 2016 12:27 PM PST

    Marilee said:

    Kilsin said:

    In the FAQ, are the answers you seek, all you have to do, is take a peek!

    Will there be many quests?

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q28

    Story and lore elements are essential to our Quest system – they need to be meaningful and give purpose. But as a player you should never feel overwhelmed with a bunch of quests that are nothing but mundane tasks. When you get a quest the intent is that it will be epic in nature and reinforce the fact that you are a resurrected hero. More specifically, Pantheon is not a ‘quest hub’ game, where you move to one level appropriate hub, do a bunch of quests in that area, and then move to the next hub; rather, you will need to search out and find quests by interacting with PCs and in a less linear and more ‘sandbox’ style setting.

     

     

    Oh no.  I'm so tired of games pushing forth the idea that I'm a hero reborn.  

     

    It's so much more 'epic' and 'heroic' when ordinary gnomes do extraordinary things, don't you think?  When a bunch of elves and dwarves and halflings gather in dented, mismatched armor and knicked swords to take on monsters that threaten the town and win?  I abhor the idea that I'm already a hero but blocked from the good stuff by circumstance.

     

    I hope that you reconsider that particular narrative.  I know some people here are tired of hearing "this is how it was in EQ" and I'm sorry that it's the example I have to offer, but no one was a hero in EQ.  We were sent out into the world with rags on our backs and we worked to become something.  Heroism was ending up on someone's friend list because they trusted your little gnome cleric to keep them alive in tough situations.  Epic was being able to send out a area-wide plea to come and help put Gorenaire down so that groups were safe in culling the drolvarg populations without a sneaky dragon surprise.  

     

    I don't WANT to be a hero.  If heroism happens upon me, well that a different situation altogether. 

     

    I totally agree with you Marilee

    • 393 posts
    February 13, 2016 2:30 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    In the FAQ, are the answers you seek, all you have to do, is take a peek!

    I didn't realize the FAQ was this in depth. Thanks for highlighting this Kilsin.

    • 9115 posts
    February 13, 2016 4:54 PM PST

    Kelem said:

    Marilee said:

    Kilsin said:

    In the FAQ, are the answers you seek, all you have to do, is take a peek!

    Will there be many quests?

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q28

    Story and lore elements are essential to our Quest system – they need to be meaningful and give purpose. But as a player you should never feel overwhelmed with a bunch of quests that are nothing but mundane tasks. When you get a quest the intent is that it will be epic in nature and reinforce the fact that you are a resurrected hero. More specifically, Pantheon is not a ‘quest hub’ game, where you move to one level appropriate hub, do a bunch of quests in that area, and then move to the next hub; rather, you will need to search out and find quests by interacting with PCs and in a less linear and more ‘sandbox’ style setting.

     

     

    Oh no.  I'm so tired of games pushing forth the idea that I'm a hero reborn.  

     

    It's so much more 'epic' and 'heroic' when ordinary gnomes do extraordinary things, don't you think?  When a bunch of elves and dwarves and halflings gather in dented, mismatched armor and knicked swords to take on monsters that threaten the town and win?  I abhor the idea that I'm already a hero but blocked from the good stuff by circumstance.

     

    I hope that you reconsider that particular narrative.  I know some people here are tired of hearing "this is how it was in EQ" and I'm sorry that it's the example I have to offer, but no one was a hero in EQ.  We were sent out into the world with rags on our backs and we worked to become something.  Heroism was ending up on someone's friend list because they trusted your little gnome cleric to keep them alive in tough situations.  Epic was being able to send out a area-wide plea to come and help put Gorenaire down so that groups were safe in culling the drolvarg populations without a sneaky dragon surprise.  

     

    I don't WANT to be a hero.  If heroism happens upon me, well that a different situation altogether. 

     

    I totally agree with you Marilee

    Ugh, we have gone over this many times folks, you are not a hero in the traditional sense, you are a fallen hero, with no memory of your past, you start with a rusty sword and the rags on your back, you create your own path, if you decide to be a hero then good for you! :)

    • 9115 posts
    February 13, 2016 4:56 PM PST

    OakKnower said:

    Kilsin said:

    In the FAQ, are the answers you seek, all you have to do, is take a peek!

    I didn't realize the FAQ was this in depth. Thanks for highlighting this Kilsin.

    You're welcome mate, we update the FAQ regularly and it has a lot of information that people keep asking about, so it's always worth checking back with the FAQ often! :)

    • 39 posts
    February 13, 2016 5:35 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    In the FAQ, are the answers you seek, all you have to do, is take a peek!

    Will there be many quests?

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q28

    Story and lore elements are essential to our Quest system – they need to be meaningful and give purpose. But as a player you should never feel overwhelmed with a bunch of quests that are nothing but mundane tasks. When you get a quest the intent is that it will be epic in nature and reinforce the fact that you are a resurrected hero. More specifically, Pantheon is not a ‘quest hub’ game, where you move to one level appropriate hub, do a bunch of quests in that area, and then move to the next hub; rather, you will need to search out and find quests by interacting with PCs and in a less linear and more ‘sandbox’ style setting.

    Will there be ‘epic’ quests?

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q29

    Absolutely. Some of the most memorable gaming experiences stem from the adventure involved in obtaining and earning ‘epic’ weapons and items. These quests should be class defining moments and fill you with a major sense of accomplishment when completed. Whether hunting for clues to start a quest or trying to figure out the right thing to say or do in order to get to the next step, epic quests will be a significant social component of the game.

     

    Epic, difficult, and forced grouping are all good things in my opinion if handled correctly.  An epic quest line can be very challenging, very lengthy, and very rewarding.  I think it's all about the time invested in the story line as to whether or not it's going to be an epic experience though.  The first sign of repetitive boring collection is going to leave a sour taste, but a great story line combined with a social experience is where it's at.  If the development team can't afford the resources required for making questing like this then ok, but do focus the resources you have on a social masterpiece where the draw comes from community.  Obviously we'll all hope for both of those things in the long run with Pantheon.

    • 26 posts
    February 13, 2016 6:34 PM PST

    I'd like to see a hybrid between EQ1 Epic 1.5+ and FFXIV "Signature" Weapons/Armor.  Totally optional (raid loot always gives comparable stats) but has extra class-specific signature powers and visuals.

    I'd like to have multiple quest stages. Where sometimes it's just travelling the world to deep dark corners to find the singular resource to move forward. Make crafting part of it.  Which i can do myself or ask my crafter friend to help with.  Then, and I can't believe I'm advocating this, make it grind.

    Make me build up rep with unusual factions.  Make me kill 1000 abominations to appease my deity.  Ruin the casual passing interest in getting an epic with an easily grouped but true test of commitment to the cause.  The rare drops from normal mobs in EQ, the uncommon drops from rare zone events in FFXIV. Make me chase ghosts in the noob yard for 10 hours and every noob that passes by is an opportunity for social interaction, RP, and linking lowbies to raiders.  Make it a gut-check to keep going.

    That said... Don't just put drops on raid bosses and call it a challenge.  As mentioned previously, raid loot is "earned" by showing up, not sucking, and RNG. Raids should be part of epics.  However, if we killed a dragon, let ALL the paladins dip their blessed blades in the fireblood of the dragon instead of just 1 RNG winner.  Make all crafters of sufficient level be allowed to collect a dragonbone which can be forged into a dragonbone hammer to produce the epic component for their friends.  Gate by personal dedication and social interaction (grind + friends), not by RNG.

    And then, like FFXIV, make the gear expand with the game.  Extend epics to keep pace with the current top tier so your initial trials never become irrelevant, and there's always a reason to go back and start it.  But, again, if you don't care, there's a raid drop that doesn't look as cool or have the clicky/passive effect which is totally acceptable for managing raid content (mostly thinking alts here).

    • 61 posts
    February 13, 2016 6:48 PM PST

    vladrynne said:

    I'd like to see a hybrid between EQ1 Epic 1.5+ and FFXIV "Signature" Weapons/Armor.  Totally optional (raid loot always gives comparable stats) but has extra class-specific signature powers and visuals.

    I'd like to have multiple quest stages. Where sometimes it's just travelling the world to deep dark corners to find the singular resource to move forward. Make crafting part of it.  Which i can do myself or ask my crafter friend to help with.  Then, and I can't believe I'm advocating this, make it grind.

    Make me build up rep with unusual factions.  Make me kill 1000 abominations to appease my deity.  Ruin the casual passing interest in getting an epic with an easily grouped but true test of commitment to the cause.  The rare drops from normal mobs in EQ, the uncommon drops from rare zone events in FFXIV. Make me chase ghosts in the noob yard for 10 hours and every noob that passes by is an opportunity for social interaction, RP, and linking lowbies to raiders.  Make it a gut-check to keep going.

    That said... Don't just put drops on raid bosses and call it a challenge.  As mentioned previously, raid loot is "earned" by showing up, not sucking, and RNG. Raids should be part of epics.  However, if we killed a dragon, let ALL the paladins dip their blessed blades in the fireblood of the dragon instead of just 1 RNG winner.  Make all crafters of sufficient level be allowed to collect a dragonbone which can be forged into a dragonbone hammer to produce the epic component for their friends.  Gate by personal dedication and social interaction (grind + friends), not by RNG.

    And then, like FFXIV, make the gear expand with the game.  Extend epics to keep pace with the current top tier so your initial trials never become irrelevant, and there's always a reason to go back and start it.  But, again, if you don't care, there's a raid drop that doesn't look as cool or have the clicky/passive effect which is totally acceptable for managing raid content (mostly thinking alts here).

     

     

    I wonder if it wouldnt be possible, and i am expanding on the noob area bit, to include other players. To make people interact more with each other. Let's say you have to kill those mobs in a noob area. Maybe those mobs drop an item such as/need a fragment of a ghost, or a bone chip etc! That item would have to be "blessed" by a lower level 1-5. I just dont know if an item would be able to be "tagged" as being in the hand/inventory of a low level. You could make this even more interesting as granting the low level experience upon assisting an higher level. Basically this would make players of different levels interact with each other in a way that is forced but yet fun for both parties. it would generate interactions between players. 

    • 1095 posts
    February 15, 2016 8:00 PM PST

    Senadin said:

     

    I wonder if it wouldnt be possible, and i am expanding on the noob area bit, to include other players. To make people interact more with each other. Let's say you have to kill those mobs in a noob area. Maybe those mobs drop an item such as/need a fragment of a ghost, or a bone chip etc! That item would have to be "blessed" by a lower level 1-5. I just dont know if an item would be able to be "tagged" as being in the hand/inventory of a low level. You could make this even more interesting as granting the low level experience upon assisting an higher level. Basically this would make players of different levels interact with each other in a way that is forced but yet fun for both parties. it would generate interactions between players. 

    You're forgetting the progeny system.

    • 5 posts
    February 16, 2016 4:15 PM PST

    Krixus said:

    EQ wasn't perfect. 

    LIES! :p

    • 16 posts
    February 17, 2016 5:04 PM PST

    Krixus said:

    Goregod666 said:

    Just don't make it super hard and require tons of people throughout the whole thing...maybe the last couple of quest steps require a group or raid but most of it should be able to be completed by yourself and occasionally help with some friends.

     

    Only reason I say this, is because in EverQuest, I got about halfway through my epic weapon quest and then hit a brick wall and needed this raid and that raid and this plane and that plane and even when I did go on raids like that with others and had help, what I needed never even dropped.  I dreamed and dreamed of this weapon but by the time I even go close to finishing the quest for my Innoruuk's Curse, it was no longer relevant.

     

    Being level 75 with like 500 aa's, I went and finished the quest solo just to close that book of my Shadowknight's life but it still doesn't change the fact that I never could get it when Kunark and Velious were out, no matter how hard and long I tried.

     

    It sucks when you're in that situation, but if everybody could get it, it wouldn't be epic, would it? Your circumstance is exactly what made the epic rewards in EQ so amazing. 

     

    As someone who never owned even close to an epic...I agree with Krixus. Keep the epic feel. I liked seeing people with things I could only hope to attain. 

    • 157 posts
    February 18, 2016 5:39 AM PST

    Reht said:

    Personally, i would like to see epic quests implemented in a way that's kind of a combination of EQ1 and Daoc.  You start the epic quest at low level and get a new quest or quest line every few levels and maybe get a level appropriate gear as a reward with the epic quest line culminating with a special class weapon (EQ1) or starter set of armor at max level (Daoc).  For example (just using arbitrary numbering):

    • Level 4 - Intro to your class epic line quest (some small gear reward, that won't be good enough to last for more than a few levels, or something else) - solo or group
    • level 8 - becoming an apprentice in your class quest (same as above) - solo or group
    • level 12 - becoming proficient in your class quest (same as above) - solo or group
    • level 14 - becoming a journeyman in your class quest (same as above) - solo or group
    • level 16 - becoming an adept quest (same as above) - solo or group
    • upon achieving max level - becoming a master level quest - require a group or more to complete this quest line, provide a meaningful reward but not close to best in slot, maybe a piece of gear(s) relevent to a brand new max level toon.
    • upon completing your master level quest - you now begin you epic trials - this requires group and raid to complete culminating with a true epic weapon or something.

    I always like the idea of the epics as a story telling mechanism, a journey you went through as you leveled up. 

     

    I really like this idea, or some variation of it.  Perhaps the quest is for a relic that gets "upgraded" through the questing process ... like the monk bracer quest in EQ.  I loved that quest.  The absolute best part of the "upgrading class epic" is that, when the level cap is raised, as always happens, epic quests can get an addendum as well.  Nothing worse than an outdated eipc.   :)

     

     


    This post was edited by xtnpd at February 18, 2016 5:40 AM PST
    • 2130 posts
    February 19, 2016 10:32 AM PST

    I think both proposed systems have their pros and cons.

    I don't really like the idea of having epics be a gradual buildup from earlygame to endgame. Reasons below:

    Tough to imagine how this would be implemented without a very "on-rails" style of questing, popularly brought on by WoW and later adopted by even Dark Age of Camelot.
     
    Rewards would need to be strong enough to get people to want to do the quests, but then the item rewards end up being best in slot for a long time which discourages getting other gear for those slots. Otherwise, people will just wait until endgame to blast through all of the quests at once.


    Questing in general, particularly solo questing, is some of the most anti-social gameplay available in MMOs. I don't think having a lot of quests like these will do anything except splinter the population. For instance, "I already completed that step, sorry, I'm gonna go do something else instead". It just alienates people.

    Those are all cons because I honestly can't really see any positives. I'd much rather have the oldschool EQ style quests where there's only a small handful of quests in the entire game, and the epics don't actually start until endgame or close to it.

    Edit: Bullet points seem to be broken or something. Pls fix.

     


    This post was edited by Liav at February 19, 2016 10:34 AM PST
    • 393 posts
    February 19, 2016 3:45 PM PST

    xtnpd said:

    Reht said:

    ...snip...

    I really like this idea, or some variation of it.  Perhaps the quest is for a relic that gets "upgraded" through the questing process ... like the monk bracer quest in EQ.  I loved that quest.  The absolute best part of the "upgrading class epic" is that, when the level cap is raised, as always happens, epic quests can get an addendum as well.  Nothing worse than an outdated eipc.   :)

     

     

    I can't agree with you more on this. I acquired Benediction/Anathema in WoW only to have it become completely obsolete after Cataclysm. It's frustrating to shelve something after you've put some effort into it. I never did advance far enough to get the Prayer Shawl and was also not able to acquire Spear of Fate. I really would like the opportunity to pursue epics once again. Get it, keep it, and keep using it too.


    This post was edited by OakKnower at February 19, 2016 3:49 PM PST
    • 999 posts
    February 19, 2016 6:25 PM PST

    Reht said:

    Personally, i would like to see epic quests implemented in a way that's kind of a combination of EQ1 and Daoc.  You start the epic quest at low level and get a new quest or quest line every few levels and maybe get a level appropriate gear as a reward with the epic quest line culminating with a special class weapon (EQ1) or starter set of armor at max level (Daoc).  For example (just using arbitrary numbering):

    *Snip*

    I always like the idea of the epics as a story telling mechanism, a journey you went through as you leveled up. 

    I've always liked this idea, my only hestitation is making them meaningful/worthwhile without being a gear treadmill during leveling or each expansion release.  Epic 1.0 is at Launch, then upgrade to 1.5 the next expansion, then 2.0 in the 3rd, etc. and typically the epic is best in slot each expansion.  I would want other available options so it wouldn't be that everyone "had" to do the evolving quest to always have the best gear, and you see 1000 warriors with their epic and it trivalizes the item.  Perhaps, similar to the shawl/ring quests in EQ, it could be a sprawling group-level quest that would ultimately reward a raid level type item (I know the later quests required raids).

    • 22 posts
    February 20, 2016 1:49 AM PST

    I have not read all of the comments but I think the one thing that stood out for me about epic quests in the early days of EQ1, was the community involvement to solve them.  I was a cleric when they first came out, and the cleric boards were filled with people trying various things, speculating, thought processing, brain storming.  It was absolutely amazing.  If you were involved in that process, you will remember well the day when the quest finally advanced a step, what a day!

    If Visionary can do aything to bring back that kind of community spirit, in this dawn of MMO's, they will be onto a winner.  Epic all the way for me, but make it hard as nails, in terms of puzzle solving and riddles, not in terms of the encounters etc (although obviously have a few of them!).

    • 671 posts
    February 20, 2016 8:44 AM PST

    Liav said:

    Hieromonk, why are you so frustrating? Literally every thread you post in, you're trying to describe the game like you've already played it.

    Give it a rest already. You don't know ****, and neither do we.

     

    Try posting some ideas (& workable mechanics) of your own..   don't worry about what I know.

     

    Secondly, when we get new PERMANENT forums, you'll begin to learn what I & others know. You will see people share all kinds of well thought out ideas. But if you don't have a clue on the building process of MMORPGs (specifially how Brad does them), that does not mean Others don't know the process.. Be advised, you have to stay knowledgable on all information, to know where VRi is going (watch all video in slow motion and pay attention to the text boxes for mechanics), while also knowing & understanding what Unity can do to know whrere VRi can go. Understand and know what the VRi tenets are, & then be able to lay them out in a logical means...  for them to be applied within the context of Pantheon's framework. (Read what Visionary Realms has told you and where they like to go and all mechanics can be based on that trajectory... not from ones 17 years old.)

    If you can't frame your mind in that^ context & where VRi intends to go, then I understand why you are facinated by my posts. Many of the oldguard don't post here anymore, I myself was frustrated and went away for 8 months. Only recently back, to encourage deeper construct within ideas. New ideas..

     

     

    Like many of the Oldguard, I have played 20 years of MMORPGs and have incredible amount of knowledge and experience doing this. (Before that, I played MUDS and AD&D...  and know those rules & game mechanics too)

    I have already played Pantheon in my head, (as I am sure Brad has). The actual graphics, animations and spell particles used, doesn't matter... and won't matter. What matter is stick figures you can bring to life with a set of open-ended, in-game mechanics. I have been playing Pantheon out in my head, since the first day of EQ back in 1999. Because I was already dissecting EQ's/UO's/AC's mechanics and noting where they went wrong. Now nearly 18 years later we can talk about all those experiences in all those games and it is rather EASY to offer up mechanics that solve the modern MMORPG problems. Problems that were mainly created by the many ignorant developers and business people we had building these children games over the last 10 years. With abysmal susccess.

    All solvable..  

     

    Look around, most people talk about their problems, I talk about solutions to their problems. That is what & how these forums use to be, until recently, when newer people joined our Community and many unknowingly started re-hashing older conversations had between VR and (previous?) community. The flux in this community is due/blaimed on these poor forums. (Fix coming soon = new forums).

     

     

     

    Epic Quests: ?

    A simple character hook is all it takes, to potentially make each Warrior's Epic Quest... different for every Warrior. (Depending on how slight, or devious VRi might get.)

    So Liav, now knowing this sort of dynamic could be in play, why would YOU (or anyone) make an Epic Quest easy and strait forward like it has been in the past 15+ years? When you could make it fun & very interesting...? OK, then ask yourself this, why would you assume Brad isn't capable of designing a well thought out and particularily hard & treacherous epic quest..  that deviates from player to player..?

    I think, such game mechanics^ has crossed Brad's mind, and He has played & toyed with those mechanics. I am doing the same.

     

     

    We are all friends here.

    • 2130 posts
    February 20, 2016 9:42 AM PST

    Hieromonk said:

    We are all friends here.

    False.

    • 999 posts
    February 20, 2016 8:50 PM PST

    Liav said:

    Hieromonk said:

    We are all friends here.

    False.

    True

    • 9115 posts
    February 20, 2016 9:06 PM PST

    Raidan said:

    Liav said:

    Hieromonk said:

    We are all friends here.

    False.

    True

    We are definitely all friends here who share a passion in this type of game, people will have different opinions, views, ideas for everything in life and Pantheon is no different, but that doesn't mean we can't be friends! :)

    • 2130 posts
    February 20, 2016 11:13 PM PST

    We can be friends, I just get irritated when people post giant walls of text of pure speculation and no substance. Every time (unnamed individual) posts here he speaks as if he plays on the internal servers or something. It's not a matter of differing opinion, it's just an eyesore.

    • 671 posts
    February 22, 2016 10:04 AM PST

    Vandraad said:

    Hieromonk said:

    LULZ,

    So, someone who just solved a quest, (that has taken him and a handful of Guildmates 4 months of questing to find and complete...)  and the first thing they do is share it openly & not hold on to the secret and run the rest of their guild threw the quest..?  That 10k others matter more than themselves and their friends and guildmates..?

    Finding a clue in a quest, or completing a quest nobody knows how to is almost like an exploit. You are not going to be telling people about your secret.

    I don't know what EQ you played, but nobody but the biggest retards shared their valuable quest info. It kept other guilds at bay..  

    So that it is not "laid out" for them.

    lulz.

    I don't know what EQ1 you played, but I happen to remember how the wizard community came together across all servers to openly share their thoughts, breakthroughs, NPC conversations, theories, successed and failures for the original version of the wizard epic 1.0.  Every successful step of the quest was kept up-to-date with all relevant information.  Hundreds of us were in a 3rd party chat channel when the first wizard completed his epic.  The amount of congratulations, well wishes and just plain old joy was quite something to behold.  Too bad your EQ1 wasn't as good as mine.

     

     

    Correct, and if you look back to 1999 and 2000 you can see all then people coming together on Ally's sharing information.

    That was 16 years ago, when Guilds were not that as competitive, or even fully developed. I was porting all over the world trying to get clues for my Wizard epic. Many people kept legs of their Quests secret, while other found and shared. Most sane & competitive people are not going to blurt out their secrets. I know quests that send many people scurrying and using /ooc to solve..  the same quests today would not be a community effort, but a secret one.   

     

    In today competivie and contested worlds... would YOU openly share to the server..  a epic secret you justy stumbled upon... ??   Do you think you would remain in your guild if you started shouting out seccrets, or posting them online...  do you think that would be fair to your other guild mates who are spending their time looking and fiding those clues..?

    Do you see how you are trying to use Yourself (and 17 years) as a reason to rebuttal what I said about human nature...  

    So... go ahead and spend your time solving a quest, just make sure to give out all the info so everyone on the serever can complete it, perhaps before you do. Seems like most forfront Guilds work for the general populace and not for their faithful Guildmates...?

     

     

    ergo: We all know what people did in EQ... we know this. Just because ON YOUR SERVER for a leg of the Wizard Epic quest, it was a community endevour..  does not mean all information on all epic quests were shared. Because I know for a fact it was not and most new information was kept hidden from others.

    And that is all I am saying. Is that there will not be a place for early adopters of Pantheon to go and just look stuff up. That information & knowledge is compiled over time (1 ~2 years). It is not instant.