Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

DEATH TO THE AUCTION HOUSE!!!

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    • 65 posts
    April 19, 2016 8:48 PM PDT
    I agree NO auction house!
    • 724 posts
    April 20, 2016 12:33 AM PDT

    An actual auction house may be unneeded, but at least a message board where you can post your WTS/WTB messages should be in the game. This is actually quite realistic, and doesn't take away from the need to interact with people. But it allows you to set up sales or purchases without having to stand in a single zone and spam the chat channels for however long. That's what I want (and I imagine, a good number of the people asking for an auction house would be content with such a system).

    There should be only little automatism with those boards. Should they be searchable/sortable? Probably not. But if you post a message (to sell an item), the item should become marked in your inventory. If you actually give the item away, the message should be automatically removed from the board. There, no auction house, but you have a reasonable way of selling and buying items.

    • 99 posts
    April 20, 2016 1:13 AM PDT

    Started Playing Mmorpgs with UO then EQ 7 Years and after that about every overhyped mmorpg that came.

    The entire ah or no ah debate seems to be because of the aviablility of items in a virtual world. If you have an ah it will kill item prices pretty fast if stuff is dropped alot in that game world. It will make even rare and powerfull items often cheap and easy to obtain. Thats seems to be why alot of old timers hate ahs you dont have to earn your items you can buy them cheap.

    Without ah prices seem to stay higher usualy since you dont directly see that vendor 001 has about 200 epic glowy swords in his storage room and he can sell them all at a high price.

    Looking at it like that to me it seems more like a problem of the game world not ahs. For this first part.

    Second part would be gold sellers. They usualy abuse ahs pretty easily, saw it in many games. And they always win with bots and whatever.

    I always liked the UO model where you can place a npc vendor in front of your house and put the items you want to sell in his bag. I used to travel to many locations to search for nice items back then.

    Or you could sell them in person. Its fine and reduces gold sellers income and keeps prices stable even if the drops are too many. (which should not really be the case)

     

    Mod Edit: Removed excess spaces under body of text which stretched the forum reply window beyond what was needed.


    This post was edited by VR-Mod1 at April 20, 2016 3:26 AM PDT
    • 2756 posts
    April 20, 2016 1:18 AM PDT

    Sarim said:An actual auction house may be unneeded, but at least a message board where you can post your WTS/WTB messages should be in the game...

    You know, this would be a doddle to set up for the devs and if they put this in a release it'd probably end up never needing replacement.  All the to-and-fro above considered this would be a good compromise too.

    I would personally prefer a commodities vendor NPC or player housing NPC vendor or player consignment system, but I do see how almost any system cuts back on the social aspects.

    A noticeboard next to the general store would be enough to avoid a lot of the hanging around and spamming chat channels I didn't particularly enjoy and still promote one-to-one interaction for actual trades.

    • 2 posts
    June 26, 2016 8:49 PM PDT

    Noobie Doo made some great points. If immersion into the game is going to happen then buys, sells and trades needs to take place face to face, or pixel to pixel I guess.  I could see hiring npcs to stand in front of your house or guild hall, but would prefer no auction houses or bazaars.  Mail should not be available everywhere either.  Sorry just my 2 copper.

    Macmorn

    • 189 posts
    June 28, 2016 10:22 PM PDT
    I personally hope there is some sort of auction house, bazzaar or bulletin board.. Something to assist. It's not a deal breaker but I would much rather spend my time exploring or on corpse recovery than sitting and trying to sell my wares..
    • 23 posts
    June 28, 2016 11:39 PM PDT

    I like the idea of town wide consignment shops. Taxes - I don't like them, no one does. But for RP value, it might be worth it. After all, what pays for the guards? If it's just town wide then you wont have faction RP problems. 

    Funny, I hardly ever RP when playing, but if something doesn't have a RP justification I have an issue with it. 


    This post was edited by revolw at June 28, 2016 11:40 PM PDT
    • 316 posts
    June 28, 2016 11:42 PM PDT
    It's more fun to msg people directly and to meet them to trade! It's also entertaining seeing all the items go by on the chat screen. More exciting, more social, a little more dangerous and "real life vendor-haggley", gives the items an extra dimension beyond just utility and digital economics. I think it's fun to trade like in EQ1.
    • 116 posts
    June 29, 2016 5:36 AM PDT

    I kind of like the idea of an AH to sell goods I have found or crafted, while I am out doing other things.  If there is no AH, I would to see a dedicated /Trade channel to be used instead of spamming item sales in the general chat channels.

    • 76 posts
    June 29, 2016 5:55 AM PDT

    Personally I think an auction house is fine! But there should be restrictions...Someone across the world should not be able to sell something via auction house to someone else. I think that there should only be a handful of larger city's that offer the AH and you can only list/buy/sell items from people in that city.

    • 1468 posts
    June 29, 2016 9:55 AM PDT

    P1999EQLandmark said:

    Personally I think an auction house is fine! But there should be restrictions...Someone across the world should not be able to sell something via auction house to someone else. I think that there should only be a handful of larger city's that offer the AH and you can only list/buy/sell items from people in that city.

    That seems like a reasonable restriction. I imagine if those restrictions were put in place the players would just designate a single city as the "selling" city and everyone would just use that specific auction house to buy and sell. Personally I find that to be much more reasonable solution than having to stand in a zone spamming WTS macros in /auction.

    • 76 posts
    June 29, 2016 10:00 AM PDT

    Cromulent said:

    P1999EQLandmark said:

    Personally I think an auction house is fine! But there should be restrictions...Someone across the world should not be able to sell something via auction house to someone else. I think that there should only be a handful of larger city's that offer the AH and you can only list/buy/sell items from people in that city.

    That seems like a reasonable restriction. I imagine if those restrictions were put in place the players would just designate a single city as the "selling" city and everyone would just use that specific auction house to buy and sell. Personally I find that to be much more reasonable solution than having to stand in a zone spamming WTS macros in /auction.

     

    If the community picks one city so be it. It's the same thing all the EC tunnel people(myself included) wanted in theory anyways. I think in this age with the community being a bit older and having more time restrictions, somesort of AH is almost a must.


    This post was edited by Vega at June 29, 2016 10:00 AM PDT
    • 1468 posts
    June 29, 2016 10:17 AM PDT

    P1999EQLandmark said:

    Cromulent said:

    P1999EQLandmark said:

    Personally I think an auction house is fine! But there should be restrictions...Someone across the world should not be able to sell something via auction house to someone else. I think that there should only be a handful of larger city's that offer the AH and you can only list/buy/sell items from people in that city.

    That seems like a reasonable restriction. I imagine if those restrictions were put in place the players would just designate a single city as the "selling" city and everyone would just use that specific auction house to buy and sell. Personally I find that to be much more reasonable solution than having to stand in a zone spamming WTS macros in /auction.

    I think in this age with the community being a bit older and having more time restrictions, somesort of AH is almost a must.

    That is the point I've been trying to make in quite a few different places. I don't have the time to grind XP, do some crafting and stand around for hours trying to sell my items. I'd rather have the selling done by some sort of AFK system or even offline trading so I can trade when I am asleep or when I'm not doing anything on my computer. Unfortunately it seems like this is unpopular with a certain type of Pantheon supporter which is a shame.

    • 76 posts
    June 29, 2016 10:20 AM PDT

    Honestly, if there is no AH I will be happy. If there is an AH with the limitations I will be happy. If it's like any other game's AH(which I don't think will happen), please shoot me. I guess if we don't have time to sell, we will just have to have the good ol' FIRESALES!

     

     

    What if there was a reseller feature in the game. Say you trade all your goods to your friend with the deal that if they sell them at x price they get a % of the cut. Then they travel to the lands to sell them. It would have to be set up to avoid fraud, but if you made it so if the individual traded the item to anyone but the owner, the owner would automatically get x amount of coin. Kind of a crazy idea I know, just thought I'd throw it out there.

    --this would also be possible wihthout any additional mechanics if you gained some trust in others within this great world of Pantheon!


    This post was edited by Vega at June 29, 2016 10:26 AM PDT
    • 1468 posts
    June 29, 2016 10:55 AM PDT

    P1999EQLandmark said:

    Honestly, if there is no AH I will be happy. If there is an AH with the limitations I will be happy. If it's like any other game's AH(which I don't think will happen), please shoot me. I guess if we don't have time to sell, we will just have to have the good ol' FIRESALES!

    What if there was a reseller feature in the game. Say you trade all your goods to your friend with the deal that if they sell them at x price they get a % of the cut. Then they travel to the lands to sell them. It would have to be set up to avoid fraud, but if you made it so if the individual traded the item to anyone but the owner, the owner would automatically get x amount of coin. Kind of a crazy idea I know, just thought I'd throw it out there.

    --this would also be possible wihthout any additional mechanics if you gained some trust in others within this great world of Pantheon!

    I've already been considering asking some guildies to help me sell things for a cut of the profit in case there isn't any auction house or whatever to help you sell while you are AFK or offline. Hopefully they'll want to take part for a cut of the profits. If not I guess I'll have to cut down the time I spend enjoying the game and instead do something that I find totally boring.

    • 83 posts
    June 29, 2016 12:29 PM PDT

    I'd be ok with no AH only if there is some way to at least advertise items for sale (and find items for sale).   The old EC tunnel trading was because there was no other way at the time... I don't have time in my busy life to waste it watching chat scroll by on my screen along with all the spammers and other bs chat.  Who would monitor that?  Who would assure it is devoted only to selling items?

    While the EC style of trading was fun I also didn't miss all of it's negatives.

    One last thing... there are plenty of ways to prevent players from jacking prices on an AH, look at how BDO does it today.  Players don't set prices the system does.   You also cannot use the AH as a means to sell gold, mainly because of this.   You cannot spam buy items (each purchase requires the entry of a capcha code).  There are plenty of ways to add AH functionality without the traditional problems it causes. 

    • 1468 posts
    June 30, 2016 1:38 AM PDT

    Santiago said:

    One last thing... there are plenty of ways to prevent players from jacking prices on an AH, look at how BDO does it today.  Players don't set prices the system does.   You also cannot use the AH as a means to sell gold, mainly because of this.   You cannot spam buy items (each purchase requires the entry of a capcha code).  There are plenty of ways to add AH functionality without the traditional problems it causes. 

    Although I am in favour of some sort of auction house for AFK selling I'm not sure I'm in favour of a system that doesn't let players set the price of the items that they want to sell. In EverQuest there were some players that tried to corner the market for a certain item and everyone knew who they were so if you wanted to sell that particular item quickly you'd just send those players a quick /tell and knock say 5% off the price and they'd buy it off you straight away. That made both parties happy. You got a quick sale so you had the money and the person who bought the item made an easy 5% profit on the item.

    Edit: This was when the Bazaar was implemented in EverQuest so it works even if there was AFK selling.


    This post was edited by Cromulent at June 30, 2016 1:39 AM PDT
    • 428 posts
    June 30, 2016 7:16 AM PDT

    Cromulent said:

    P1999EQLandmark said:

    Cromulent said:

    P1999EQLandmark said:

    Personally I think an auction house is fine! But there should be restrictions...Someone across the world should not be able to sell something via auction house to someone else. I think that there should only be a handful of larger city's that offer the AH and you can only list/buy/sell items from people in that city.

    That seems like a reasonable restriction. I imagine if those restrictions were put in place the players would just designate a single city as the "selling" city and everyone would just use that specific auction house to buy and sell. Personally I find that to be much more reasonable solution than having to stand in a zone spamming WTS macros in /auction.

     

     

    I think in this age with the community being a bit older and having more time restrictions, somesort of AH is almost a must.

    That is the point I've been trying to make in quite a few different places. I don't have the time to grind XP, do some crafting and stand around for hours trying to sell my items. I'd rather have the selling done by some sort of AFK system or even offline trading so I can trade when I am asleep or when I'm not doing anything on my computer. Unfortunately it seems like this is unpopular with a certain type of Pantheon supporter which is a shame.

    But watch when the majorty of players dont have time to spend hours looking at tells you will see people crafting only for themselves.  I used to be an Alchemist in EQ2 for one reason only.  Keep me and my group stock full of potions and poisons I never sold it and they had an easy offline system.  You will see that a lot of people end up doing this if there is no auction house because the EC tunnel idea was a timesink all by itself and selling will sink to only a few die hards. 


    This post was edited by Kalgore at June 30, 2016 7:17 AM PDT
    • 76 posts
    June 30, 2016 7:36 AM PDT

    Kalgore said:

    But watch when the majorty of players dont have time to spend hours looking at tells you will see people crafting only for themselves.  I used to be an Alchemist in EQ2 for one reason only.  Keep me and my group stock full of potions and poisons I never sold it and they had an easy offline system.  You will see that a lot of people end up doing this if there is no auction house because the EC tunnel idea was a timesink all by itself and selling will sink to only a few die hards. 

     

     

    In my opinion, there will be a strong economy either way. I don't think the lack of an Auction House will stop people from buying/selling, even in games where there IS an auction house, many items are sold via WTS/WTB. The question would just be the effect of no AH. I don't think that there will be an issue with all things being said, VRI will make appropriate accommodations for a strong economy whether they decide that is a dedicated channel locally/regionally/globally, AH, or yolo figure it out community. :)

    • 643 posts
    June 30, 2016 10:03 AM PDT

    Revisiting this still-alive topic:

     

    I deplore off-line auction houses and "buy anything from anywhere ability".

     

    What I absolutely positively loved in EQ was the original bazaar (not that revamped abomination).  You had to stay logged in to watch your store.  If you wanted to go AFK you could but you missed offers and haggling with buyers.  Similarly, you never knew if a seller was present but you could haggle with folks - I LOVED the medieval open market feel of that where folks brought there wares, set up a stand and opened shop then they all haggled.

    That gave so much strength to the economy.

    An ad hoc spot like the EC tunnel was ok but sort of haphazard (on our server it was Kelethin, btw).  The second bazaar was a disaster.  The WoW auction house is an abomination to immersive virtual worlds.  The original EQ bazaar was absolutely 100% perfect in every regard.  I will pay double the subscription costs just to have that!

     

     

     

     


    This post was edited by fazool at July 1, 2016 6:36 AM PDT
    • 1468 posts
    June 30, 2016 10:29 AM PDT

    fazool said:

    Revisiting this still-alive topic:

    I deplore off-line auction houses and "buy anything from anywhere ability".

    What I absolutely positively loved in EQ was the original bazaar (not that revamped abomination).  You had to stay logged in to watch your store.  If you wanted to go AFK you could but you missed offers and haggling with buyers.  Similarly, you never knew if a seller was present but you could haggle with folks - i medieval LOVED the open market feel of that where folks brought there wares, set up a stand and opened shop then they all haggled.

    That gave so much strength to the economy.

    An ad hoc spot like the EC tunnel was ok but sort of haphazard (on our server it was Kelethin, btw).  The second bazaar was a disaster.  The WoW auction house is an abomination to immersive virtual worlds.  The original EQ bazaar was absolutely 100% perfect in every regard.  I will pay double the subscription costs just to have that!

    I agree the Bazaar worked well in its original form and if it were included it would be a good addition. The only real downsides to the EQ Bazaar system are the cost of electicity to keep your computer on overnight to sell your gear and the noise from your computer if you have it in the same room as your bedroom (which unfortunately I do).

    But both of those I'd be fine to live with as long as there is some form of AFK selling.

    • 781 posts
    June 30, 2016 10:37 AM PDT

    Cromulent said:

    fazool said:

    Revisiting this still-alive topic:

    I deplore off-line auction houses and "buy anything from anywhere ability".

    What I absolutely positively loved in EQ was the original bazaar (not that revamped abomination).  You had to stay logged in to watch your store.  If you wanted to go AFK you could but you missed offers and haggling with buyers.  Similarly, you never knew if a seller was present but you could haggle with folks - i medieval LOVED the open market feel of that where folks brought there wares, set up a stand and opened shop then they all haggled.

    That gave so much strength to the economy.

    An ad hoc spot like the EC tunnel was ok but sort of haphazard (on our server it was Kelethin, btw).  The second bazaar was a disaster.  The WoW auction house is an abomination to immersive virtual worlds.  The original EQ bazaar was absolutely 100% perfect in every regard.  I will pay double the subscription costs just to have that!

    I agree the Bazaar worked well in its original form and if it were included it would be a good addition. The only real downsides to the EQ Bazaar system are the cost of electicity to keep your computer on overnight to sell your gear and the noise from your computer if you have it in the same room as your bedroom (which unfortunately I do).

    But both of those I'd be fine to live with as long as there is some form of AFK selling.

     

    I agree with ya Crom.  good point

    • 231 posts
    June 30, 2016 12:09 PM PDT

    I loved the original bazaar for a short while because it was new/cool, but in the end it was because it was better than sitting in Faymart (Xev wasn't an EC tunnel server) all day or really hoping to see what you want to buy/sell between groups. Timezones were sometimes an issue too. PST players that couldn't leave a baz character constantly running had the issue of EST players typically not buying from them as often.

    For those of us who leave a second account running and/or leaving your characters on overnight/during the day, how is that different than an offline AH? If you use a bot and you're at your computer or walking to the computer and checking on it occasionally you're doing barely anything in the end. Leaving it active (bot or not) while not at the computer is the exact same as an offline AH - you aren't having to do anything or be there for the sale. With an AH bot you can find/purchase items at better prices (and/or find rare ones easier) and change your prices as needed when other people sell the same item for cheaper, without it effecting you playing the game. In a way that sort of thing is a pay to win effect since you're paying for the electricity/sub/game/whatever and gain an advantage. It's not a game changing advantage by any means, but it's still there and matters more at the begining of launch when there are fewer of each item.

    As far as having to go to the player without the path helpers etc... if we're honest, 90% of us just ran up and down aisles with a /tar button or shift+up. So really it wasn't "immersive" except that you had to aimlessly move up and down aisles until your target box lit up.

    Something offline AHs in most games have done is charging a player something to list the item (Additional if it sells? I forget). I think this has been talked about plenty of times, but MMOs should have gold sinks and this is an easy way that isn't class specific like reagents.

    • 62 posts
    June 30, 2016 12:36 PM PDT

    tanwedar said:

    For those of us who leave a second account running and/or leaving your characters on overnight/during the day, how is that different than an offline AH? If you use a bot and you're at your computer or walking to the computer and checking on it occasionally you're doing barely anything in the end. Leaving it active (bot or not) while not at the computer is the exact same as an offline AH - you aren't having to do anything or be there for the sale.

    This is an interesting point. I did not get to experience the Bazaar trading or person to person trading. When I first heard about it, it sounded really cool. But reading and thinking about it some more, I feel that if the end result is leaving my computer on and watching tv or tab out surf the web etc, I am not doing anything at all. I am trying to imagine playing the game and coming home from work and being faced with the decision 1) do I play with my friends and continue to adventure or 2) go to X location and afk to finally sell my wares.

    I still really like the idea of trading person to person some way. I don't think I have the answer or suggestion but If there could be some sort of hybrid system implemented where you can sell maybe a certain amount of items through an auction house, but have to trade in person for additional sells.

    • 1303 posts
    June 30, 2016 12:49 PM PDT

    Why do people act as though the only two options are A) There's an AH/Bazaar, or B) you have to stand around in a common area for hours on end hitting a /auc macro? 

    I very rarely spent significant time in the EC tunnel and managed to sell a lot of goods. I just hit that /auc macro every time I entered a new zone while traveling. I didnt always get the going price but sometimes I exceeded it. I didnt commit any notable time to it, and I often sold to people who wanted the items I had but who didnt want to sit in EC tunnel. 

    All the benefits of a "force" social interaction and none of the negatives of a AH.