Hey fellow Pantheon followers,
I can't believe I'm even writing this post, but I can't hold back my frustrations anymore. It's been years, and what do we have to show for it? Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen was supposed to be the MMORPG of our dreams, but it's turning into a nightmare of mismanagement and poor decisions.
First off, the lack of communication is beyond infuriating. We're left in the dark for months, and when we finally get an update, it's vague promises and more delays. How many times have they pushed back release estimates? I've lost count! It's like they have no clue what they're doing.
And don't get me started on the 24/7 access fiasco. We were promised alpha access, a chance to test the actual MMORPG, but instead, we get some survival mode nonsense. That's not what we backed! No one signed up to play a one-hour match of a game that doesn't even resemble Pantheon.
The recent art style change is another slap in the face. I get that they want scalability, but now it looks like a "WoW-clone," a mobile game, or even worse, a reminder of the EverQuest Next disaster. It's like they've completely forgotten what we, the backers, signed up for.
And the monetization of the 24/7 test? Seriously? We already backed this game with our hard-earned money, and now they want us to pay even more for this "special mode"? It reeks of desperation, and I'm starting to wonder if they're just trying to milk us for every penny.
But the real kicker is that they're talking about needing potential investors to get this game off the ground. What happened to the promises of crowdfunding and making this game for the fans? It feels like they're giving up and trying to find a shortcut to finish it.
Look, I wanted to love Pantheon, and I still do, but the way things are going, it's hard to stay optimistic. This game had so much potential, and it's painful to watch it slip away due to poor management, lack of communication, and leadership that seems lost.
I'm angry, frustrated, and disappointed. I hope I'm not the only one who feels this way, and maybe if we voice our concerns, the team behind Pantheon will finally start listening. We deserve better than this!
[Rant Over]
They know what we think. All Gods witness that we have been telling them - loudly.
They are desperate and think they have no other choice.
If they do nothing - death by a thousand cuts and the hope dies.
If they do this - quite likely the same result but a 10% chance of hitting the jackpot and having the mini-game suddenly go viral is better than a 100% chance of death by a thousand cuts.
dorotea said:They know what we think. All Gods witness that we have been telling them - loudly.
They are desperate and think they have no other choice.
If they do nothing - death by a thousand cuts and the hope dies.
If they do this - quite likely the same result but a 10% chance of hitting the jackpot and having the mini-game suddenly go viral is better than a 100% chance of death by a thousand cuts.
The other side of the coin is even more people just lose money
I imagine they're strapped on funds and are desperate to squeeze more money from those of us that have pledged by creating a mini game. I'm already supporter, why should I give another cent to VR when it has been nothing but setbacks and delays for over 7 years? I don't trust VR to deliver a game anything close to expectations because of their baffling lack of communication, frequent changes of direction, and Hail Mary attempt to generate funds. As far as I know this could already be the end and this mini-game is the severence pay for the team. I'll definitely not recommend this mini-fleece to anyone.
Perl said:I imagine they're strapped on funds and are desperate to squeeze more money from those of us that have pledged by creating a mini game. I'm already supporter, why should I give another cent to VR when it has been nothing but setbacks and delays for over 7 years? I don't trust VR to deliver a game anything close to expectations because of their baffling lack of communication, frequent changes of direction, and Hail Mary attempt to generate funds. As far as I know this could already be the end and this mini-game is the severence pay for the team. I'll definitely not recommend this mini-fleece to anyone.
Ruinar said:Ben Dean said this explicitly.Perl said:I imagine they're strapped on funds and are desperate to squeeze more money from those of us that have pledged by creating a mini game. I'm already supporter, why should I give another cent to VR when it has been nothing but setbacks and delays for over 7 years? I don't trust VR to deliver a game anything close to expectations because of their baffling lack of communication, frequent changes of direction, and Hail Mary attempt to generate funds. As far as I know this could already be the end and this mini-game is the severence pay for the team. I'll definitely not recommend this mini-fleece to anyone.
I don't know if it makes it any better. But I think that they want to monitize 247 to a new audience. You know, an audience that may have no interest in a classically spirited MMORPG.
"We believe the marriage between MMO and Extraction is something that will speak to a much larger audience than we have reached to date and we are exploring that opportunity."
I'd love to be wrong, but this does feel like the desperate flailings of a doomed project. Is it actually the plan to try re-monetize long-time backers to play some extraction mode thing? I can't imagine they'd have much success with that, and the market for Fortnite-aesthetic extraction games is not very friendly right now beyond existing backers.
Tough waiting until the 26th for more clarity, but assuming the worst doesn't help either. We'll see what we get beyond the few lines in Discord.
Reichsritter said:Ruinar said:Ben Dean said this explicitly.Perl said:I imagine they're strapped on funds and are desperate to squeeze more money from those of us that have pledged by creating a mini game. I'm already supporter, why should I give another cent to VR when it has been nothing but setbacks and delays for over 7 years? I don't trust VR to deliver a game anything close to expectations because of their baffling lack of communication, frequent changes of direction, and Hail Mary attempt to generate funds. As far as I know this could already be the end and this mini-game is the severence pay for the team. I'll definitely not recommend this mini-fleece to anyone.
I don't know if it makes it any better. But I think that they want to monitize 247 to a new audience. You know, an audience that may have no interest in a classically spirited MMORPG."We believe the marriage between MMO and Extraction is something that will speak to a much larger audience than we have reached to date and we are exploring that opportunity."
I'd love to hear VR's reasoning behind why they believe there can be a marriage between MMO and Extraction. What evidence do they have? Where has this happened successfully in the past? Will we get such an answer? Heck no we won't.
Vandraad said:Reichsritter said:Ruinar said:Ben Dean said this explicitly.Perl said:I imagine they're strapped on funds and are desperate to squeeze more money from those of us that have pledged by creating a mini game. I'm already supporter, why should I give another cent to VR when it has been nothing but setbacks and delays for over 7 years? I don't trust VR to deliver a game anything close to expectations because of their baffling lack of communication, frequent changes of direction, and Hail Mary attempt to generate funds. As far as I know this could already be the end and this mini-game is the severence pay for the team. I'll definitely not recommend this mini-fleece to anyone.
I don't know if it makes it any better. But I think that they want to monitize 247 to a new audience. You know, an audience that may have no interest in a classically spirited MMORPG."We believe the marriage between MMO and Extraction is something that will speak to a much larger audience than we have reached to date and we are exploring that opportunity."
I'd love to hear VR's reasoning behind why they believe there can be a marriage between MMO and Extraction. What evidence do they have? Where has this happened successfully in the past? Will we get such an answer? Heck no we won't.
So I liked the division 1 and 2, pretty good games, lots of PVE coop fun. Then I tried the extraction zone, the DZ. Holy toxic hell fest. But mixing it with an oldschool mmorpg combat system? Huh?
I mean maybe we'll all try it and think it actually is good, but I find it hard to believe that these 2 genre's are going to mix.
If it turns into the DZ from the division, it was only fun for the very small group of people that spent all day there and learned every trick to take out other teams in ways that they wouldn't be able to fight back against. One of my worst gaming experiences of all time. Now that was a looter shooter, maybe that won't happen with an mmorpg combat system, who knows. I guess this is happening for real, so we just have to wait and see.
I'll say this though, as an alpha pledger who's been sitting around for years waiting, if they say "oh you still have to pay 50 dollars for a pack to try extraction mini game" I'm going to be absolutely $@^$ing livid.
Prevenge said:I'll say this though, as an alpha pledger who's been sitting around for years waiting, if they say "oh you still have to pay 50 dollars for a pack to try extraction mini game" I'm going to be absolutely $@^$ing livid.
Incoming someone to tell you that you just don't get the vision, or that the company knows better than you what's needed, or whatever other excuse they can find to justify attempts at milking more from us for zero return on our money so far. Even if it's available to us for free, it's not what we signed up nor asked for. VR has reached the bottom of the good will well for a lot of people and the excuses appear pithy at best and malicious at worst.
justdrop said:Prevenge said:I'll say this though, as an alpha pledger who's been sitting around for years waiting, if they say "oh you still have to pay 50 dollars for a pack to try extraction mini game" I'm going to be absolutely $@^$ing livid.
Incoming someone to tell you that you just don't get the vision, or that the company knows better than you what's needed, or whatever other excuse they can find to justify attempts at milking more from us for zero return on our money so far. Even if it's available to us for free, it's not what we signed up nor asked for. VR has reached the bottom of the good will well for a lot of people and the excuses appear pithy at best and malicious at worst.
Yeah the decade of people white knighting on these forums are partially to blame for the current situation. Undeserved praise breeds complacency.
RedGang said:justdrop said:Prevenge said:I'll say this though, as an alpha pledger who's been sitting around for years waiting, if they say "oh you still have to pay 50 dollars for a pack to try extraction mini game" I'm going to be absolutely $@^$ing livid.
Incoming someone to tell you that you just don't get the vision, or that the company knows better than you what's needed, or whatever other excuse they can find to justify attempts at milking more from us for zero return on our money so far. Even if it's available to us for free, it's not what we signed up nor asked for. VR has reached the bottom of the good will well for a lot of people and the excuses appear pithy at best and malicious at worst.
Yeah the decade of people white knighting on these forums are partially to blame for the current situation. Undeserved praise breeds complacency.
Yes those people....
Nobody cared when I discovered 8 years ago there was no physical studio, that they kept referring to. Instead, a PO Box and a couple guys in their respective garages, theory-crafting.
Nobody cared when I pointed out their zone builds had no database design behind it, that they were simply mocking up a proof-of-concept with all hard-coded content, yet trying to pretend it was some kind of functioning zone.
The fanboi's ignored those warning signs. Shouted me down, told me I didn't understand.
I tried and tried and tried to tell people, so many times, so much evidence of misleading information and highly specious claims. But the fanboi's knew better, just donate another $1000, get in on the pre-pre-pre none existent game. Pay a bunch of grifters to learn how to wite some code, mess around with a database, remake the graphics - again. Put fresh liptick on that same dungeon crawl.
Frankly I'm stunned this con game limped on for so long. Zero experience from any of these people in actually 'making' a game. And by 'make' I mean their only experience has been managing/supporting games others created. Those are 100% NOT the same thing. More like repairing a flat tire but no idea how to make a car. These people never had the skillsets, but you paid them well to spend years learning how to use tools and pad their resumes. Not sure if it's enough padding to cover up this debacle though.
zewtastic said:RedGang said:justdrop said:Prevenge said:I'll say this though, as an alpha pledger who's been sitting around for years waiting, if they say "oh you still have to pay 50 dollars for a pack to try extraction mini game" I'm going to be absolutely $@^$ing livid.
Incoming someone to tell you that you just don't get the vision, or that the company knows better than you what's needed, or whatever other excuse they can find to justify attempts at milking more from us for zero return on our money so far. Even if it's available to us for free, it's not what we signed up nor asked for. VR has reached the bottom of the good will well for a lot of people and the excuses appear pithy at best and malicious at worst.
Yeah the decade of people white knighting on these forums are partially to blame for the current situation. Undeserved praise breeds complacency.
Yes those people....
Nobody cared when I discovered 8 years ago there was no physical studio, that they kept referring to. Instead, a PO Box and a couple guys in their respective garages, theory-crafting.
Nobody cared when I pointed out their zone builds had no database design behind it, that they were simply mocking up a proof-of-concept with all hard-coded content, yet trying to pretend it was some kind of functioning zone.
The fanboi's ignored those warning signs. Shouted me down, told me I didn't understand.
I tried and tried and tried to tell people, so many times, so much evidence of misleading information and highly specious claims. But the fanboi's knew better, just donate another $1000, get in on the pre-pre-pre none existent game. Pay a bunch of grifters to learn how to wite some code, mess around with a database, remake the graphics - again. Put fresh liptick on that same dungeon crawl.
Frankly I'm stunned this con game limped on for so long. Zero experience from any of these people in actually 'making' a game. And by 'make' I mean their only experience has been managing/supporting games others created. Those are 100% NOT the same thing. More like repairing a flat tire but no idea how to make a car. These people never had the skillsets, but you paid them well to spend years learning how to use tools and pad their resumes. Not sure if it's enough padding to cover up this debacle though.
I concede, it was my first rodeo. I've made a few concessions regarding pressing back blindly as things unfolded recently on various platforms. I know I would have pushed back vehemently against you during those times you mentioned. You saw the writing on the wall
It boils down to this; we know what VR are very vaguely doing in a non-descript kind of hidden way. We know Pantheon is paused. 247 is getting love and it may become commercial. Pledgers may get free access (maybe). Development will return to Pantheon at some point. Unfortunately, everything else is a guess at this point. We do not have a crystal ball. We do not have insider information and the NDA prevents pre-alpha people from saying anything else. Its about time VR gave us some substantial direction to what is now planned. Questions I feel should be answered are (anyone else?):
Exactly what is the "vision" for 247 and what will it consist of?
When is it projected that development will restart directly on Pantheon (not the crossover code)?
Will pantheon still fulfil the tenets of the original vision we bought into?
Will/When will Vinl get completed?
What year do we expect Pantheon to be in alpha?
What will be missing when it gets to alpha?
Will Pantheon look like this 247 debacle (i.e. be graphically identical to 247)?
The more people keep asking these questions and harking on about this, the more likely they will get answered (maybe). After all, we wouldnt even have confirmation of 247 unless there was such a backlash. The more we press, the more likely they will actually give us details.
Im sure there are other just important questions, but we need a core set, so we know where we stand and its about time VR gave some GOOD and DETAILED answers.
zewtastic said:RedGang said:justdrop said:Prevenge said:I'll say this though, as an alpha pledger who's been sitting around for years waiting, if they say "oh you still have to pay 50 dollars for a pack to try extraction mini game" I'm going to be absolutely $@^$ing livid.
Incoming someone to tell you that you just don't get the vision, or that the company knows better than you what's needed, or whatever other excuse they can find to justify attempts at milking more from us for zero return on our money so far. Even if it's available to us for free, it's not what we signed up nor asked for. VR has reached the bottom of the good will well for a lot of people and the excuses appear pithy at best and malicious at worst.
Yeah the decade of people white knighting on these forums are partially to blame for the current situation. Undeserved praise breeds complacency.
Yes those people....
Nobody cared when I discovered 8 years ago there was no physical studio, that they kept referring to. Instead, a PO Box and a couple guys in their respective garages, theory-crafting.
Nobody cared when I pointed out their zone builds had no database design behind it, that they were simply mocking up a proof-of-concept with all hard-coded content, yet trying to pretend it was some kind of functioning zone.
The fanboi's ignored those warning signs. Shouted me down, told me I didn't understand.
I tried and tried and tried to tell people, so many times, so much evidence of misleading information and highly specious claims. But the fanboi's knew better, just donate another $1000, get in on the pre-pre-pre none existent game. Pay a bunch of grifters to learn how to wite some code, mess around with a database, remake the graphics - again. Put fresh liptick on that same dungeon crawl.
Frankly I'm stunned this con game limped on for so long. Zero experience from any of these people in actually 'making' a game. And by 'make' I mean their only experience has been managing/supporting games others created. Those are 100% NOT the same thing. More like repairing a flat tire but no idea how to make a car. These people never had the skillsets, but you paid them well to spend years learning how to use tools and pad their resumes. Not sure if it's enough padding to cover up this debacle though.
I remember some of your posts well - some of us did take that in and you amongst others probably saved me a few hundred quid as I had planned to upgrade to alpha access. So thank you for that.
chenzeme said:It boils down to this; we know what VR are very vaguely doing in a non-descript kind of hidden way. We know Pantheon is paused. 247 is getting love and it may become commercial. Pledgers may get free access (maybe). Development will return to Pantheon at some point. Unfortunately, everything else is a guess at this point. We do not have a crystal ball. We do not have insider information and the NDA prevents pre-alpha people from saying anything else. Its about time VR gave us some substantial direction to what is now planned. Questions I feel should be answered are (anyone else?):
Exactly what is the "vision" for 247 and what will it consist of?
When is it projected that development will restart directly on Pantheon (not the crossover code)?
Will pantheon still fulfil the tenets of the original vision we bought into?
Will/When will Vinl get completed?
What year do we expect Pantheon to be in alpha?
What will be missing when it gets to alpha?
Will Pantheon look like this 247 debacle (i.e. be graphically identical to 247)?
The more people keep asking these questions and harking on about this, the more likely they will get answered (maybe). After all, we wouldnt even have confirmation of 247 unless there was such a backlash. The more we press, the more likely they will actually give us details.
Im sure there are other just important questions, but we need a core set, so we know where we stand and its about time VR gave some GOOD and DETAILED answers.
It doesn't prevent them. They could whistleblow if they liked under different names/accounts and email addresses. If enough did that answers would follow.
