A lot of assumptions have been made in regard to the intent and implementation of the 24/7 play mode and I understand the upset. We are using a testing mode in NDA-protected pre-alpha testing session. This testing mode is testing primarily MMO mechanics. No decisions have been made regarding the use of this testing mode beyond that. Information is planned to be released as it becomes relevant. We release information to the VIPs while it is being considered to gain feedback, and that will likely continue to be the case.
"A lot of assumptions have been made in regard to the intent and implementation of the 24/7 play mode and I understand the upset."
Translation : You people made assumptions based on the lack of communication from our company, which is your fault for making those assumptions due to our lack of transparency and communication.
"We are using a testing mode in NDA-protected pre-alpha testing session. This testing mode is testing primarily MMO mechanics. No decisions have been made regarding the use of this testing mode beyond that. "
Translation : Why do you guys think this is a different game mode for more money? We only said the MMO testing would shut down for 247 testing and then we said it might fund our MMORPG. Why are you guys worried so much about this game mode? Trust us, please give us more trust, you guys just don't understand our grand plan, the MMO is the future. It is just testing we promise! See we really never made those decisions about ditching the MMO, it was just you who made the wrong assumptions.
"Information is planned to be released as it becomes relevant. We release information to the VIPs while it is being considered to gain feedback, and that will likely continue to be the case."
Translation : Everyone else who donated money and everyone else who will support our MMO in the future, they will have no say or input on massive changes in art and game modes etc. Any massive changes to the game will still only be within this small group. We will let the "greater community" know about our massive changes to the game when we will feel ready to let you know. Please enjoy your newsletters until we are ready to inform you. You have no input on OUR game. It isn't YOUR game.
Thunderleg said:
Prevenge - marketing and communications guru!
Xerion said:
Translation : Everyone else who donated money and everyone else who will support our MMO in the future, they will have no say or input on massive changes in art and game modes etc. Any massive changes to the game will still only be within this small group. We will let the "greater community" know about our massive changes to the game when we will feel ready to let you know. Please enjoy your newsletters until we are ready to inform you. You have no input on OUR game. It isn't YOUR game.
"I just want the best for the game and the company that's making it and it's community. That's it"
I wonder without all the drama if VR has simply been upfront on finances by allowing some 10.000 alpha pledges in to the "testing" phase for say $10-15/mo.
How many of us would have hesitated if we could see/play -sort of- and continue to contribute to the game? Maybe $50,000-$100,000 a month?
Will '247' make more?
Just asking.
Prevenge, I agree that seems to be what we all want, but how to recover from this shipwreck?
Savanja said:A lot of assumptions have been made in regard to the intent and implementation of the 24/7 play mode and I understand the upset. We are using a testing mode in NDA-protected pre-alpha testing session. This testing mode is testing primarily MMO mechanics. No decisions have been made regarding the use of this testing mode beyond that. Information is planned to be released as it becomes relevant. We release information to the VIPs while it is being considered to gain feedback, and that will likely continue to be the case. This is the type of speak that people are rightly upset about. Your coworkers have just recently given confirmation that none of this is the case. They confirmed that 24/7 is not "just an internal testing mode" and nothing more. They have Confirmed that they intend to monetize 24/7 as a stand alone game. "No decisions have been made regarding the use of this testing mode"? They have confirmed that they have spend the better part of the last 6+ months on this, and intend to continue on it into 2024. You can try to re-write history, but this is all Fresh information. (like within the last week!) The powers that be at VR must think their customers are pretty gullible. Just admit making a mistake and get back on the original track if at all possible at this point. And if not explain why in forthright laguange.Duderino said:Savanja said:
justdrop said:Xerion said: Translation : Everyone else who donated money and everyone else who will support our MMO in the future, they will have no say or input on massive changes in art and game modes etc. Any massive changes to the game will still only be within this small group. We will let the "greater community" know about our massive changes to the game when we will feel ready to let you know. Please enjoy your newsletters until we are ready to inform you. You have no input on OUR game. It isn't YOUR game.You forgot the line about company vision which coincidentally has room for VIP feedback but no one else's.
Exactly. Look if a VIP wants to give feedback on the appearance of armor, the color of a spell, the tuning of an ability, the feedback on the story or whatever. Something minor. I understand, they are a VIP. But when you make MASSIVE changes to the game in art style and this game mode, and then tell me only VIP members get a say on that. No thank you. I will just stop following your game. If I bought a house and some interior design made some changes to the way furniture is arranged, fine whatever. But if the interior designer goes, oh by the way the house is now a tent in the woods. No those kinds of BIG decisions require BIG input.
Xerion said:
justdrop said:Xerion said: Translation : Everyone else who donated money and everyone else who will support our MMO in the future, they will have no say or input on massive changes in art and game modes etc. Any massive changes to the game will still only be within this small group. We will let the "greater community" know about our massive changes to the game when we will feel ready to let you know. Please enjoy your newsletters until we are ready to inform you. You have no input on OUR game. It isn't YOUR game.You forgot the line about company vision which coincidentally has room for VIP feedback but no one else's.
Exactly. Look if a VIP wants to give feedback on the appearance of armor, the color of a spell, the tuning of an ability, the feedback on the story or whatever. Something minor. I understand, they are a VIP. But when you make MASSIVE changes to the game in art style and this game mode, and then tell me only VIP members get a say on that. No thank you. I will just stop following your game. If I bought a house and some interior design made some changes to the way furniture is arranged, fine whatever. But if the interior designer goes, oh by the way the house is now a tent in the woods. No those kinds of BIG decisions require BIG input.
Inselberg said:
"I just want the best for the game and the company that's making it and it's community. That's it"
I wonder without all the drama if VR has simply been upfront on finances by allowing some 10.000 alpha pledges in to the "testing" phase for say $10-15/mo.
How many of us would have hesitated if we could see/play -sort of- and continue to contribute to the game? Maybe $50,000-$100,000 a month?
Will '247' make more?
Just asking.
Prevenge, I agree that seems to be what we all want, but how to recover from this shipwreck?
lotuss79 said: This is the type of speak that people are rightly upset about. Your coworkers have just recently given confirmation that none of this is the case. They confirmed that 24/7 is not "just an internal testing mode" and nothing more. They have Confirmed that they intend to monetize 24/7 as a stand alone game. "No decisions have been made regarding the use of this testing mode"? They have confirmed that they have spend the better part of the last 6+ months on this, and intend to continue on it into 2024. You can try to re-write history, but this is all Fresh information. (like within the last week!) The powers that be at VR must think their customers are pretty gullible. Just admit making a mistake and get back on the original track if at all possible at this point. And if not explain why in forthright laguange.
I see the confusion. Perhaps you can point me to the information that confirms the decision? As I see it internally, we are still in the process of getting information and feedback and there is no final decision. If there were one, there would be no reason to beat around the bush or delay its announcement.
justdrop said:Chimerical said: umm yeah, so most of your assumptions regarding VIPs are wrong. Maybe stick to what you know and not what you assume. Still under NDA so I'll leave it at that...Oh I'm sure it's changed now but in the past it was full steam ahead.
How could it be full steam ahead until the idea is hashed out and tested? Feedback first. That has always been the plan.
Savanja said:
justdrop said:Chimerical said: umm yeah, so most of your assumptions regarding VIPs are wrong. Maybe stick to what you know and not what you assume. Still under NDA so I'll leave it at that...Oh I'm sure it's changed now but in the past it was full steam ahead.
How could it be full steam ahead until the idea is hashed out and tested? Feedback first. That has always been the plan.
"Perhaps you can point me to the information that confirms the decision?"
They want to play word games with you. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it must be a dog.
Joppa
"so there will be several we hold back for when the MMO testing is ready to ramp back up"
As the leak pointed out and Joppa talked about in the Discord chat, you and your company were deciding to put the MMO development on hold for this game mode.
Now the word game you want to play with us is that no no see, development of the MMO will continue while we also work on the 247 mode and the 247 mode might help us fund the game. No we never confirmed that decision. Oh wait, you mean we massively changed the graphics without telling you, yeah but I mean we wouldn't do that with anything else would we?
Now the argument oh no see you people are confused, there is confusion we never made that decision. It is you the gamers who are confused. Well strange enough you made a MASSIVE change to the artstyle without consulting with the greater community. Maybe I can see your confusion in understanding why a community that just had the rug pulled under them from the graphics, from videos you released like DiViare and Faerthale, why they aren't really trusting that you aren't making decisions regarding 247 and the Pantheon MMO. Your confusion Sav and your company's confusion seems to come from a complete misunderstanding of communication. But after speaking with you I can understand your confusion on those words and the feelings of the gamers who support your game.
Ranarius said:I don't want to speak for VR, but I imagine getting feedback about what's under NDA from people that have seen what's under NDA would have more value.
I don't think there is a fundamental shift in direction of the game. Their number one priority is making me the MMO of my dreams. Whatever it takes to get it built...including testing in whatever environments they choose and if/how they want to raise funds along the way.
As far as the art change, I understand the idea of asking for the communities opinion, but I'm not sure it would have been a good idea. What do you do when the community votes for something that just isn't a good decision for the company moving forward? We'd vote for all kinds of things that they just wouldn't be able to do, haha. And we might vote against things that we don't have a good understanding of.
Ranarius said:I don't want to speak for VR, but I imagine getting feedback about what's under NDA from people that have seen what's under NDA would have more value.
If this "game mode" is under NDA, then WHY is it under NDA? Because for all their talk of being open and transparent, keeping it under NDA is not open or transparent. I mean, I guess they're being open and transparent with the VIPs (maybe, I can't say for sure), but they certainly are not being open and transparent with the rest of us. If they want to know what the Pantheon Community thinks of this game mode, they can simply show us and ask. But that would be actually open and transparent. (Yeah, yeah, they're showing us a video in tomorrow's producer's letter. They're still not going to care what any of us have to say about it. The decision will have been made, for that is the only time we get to know, when it is already done.
Ranarius said:I don't think there is a fundamental shift in direction of the game. Their number one priority is making me the MMO of my dreams. Whatever it takes to get it built...including testing in whatever environments they choose and if/how they want to raise funds along the way.
As far as the art change, I understand the idea of asking for the communities opinion, but I'm not sure it would have been a good idea. What do you do when the community votes for something that just isn't a good decision for the company moving forward? We'd vote for all kinds of things that they just wouldn't be able to do, haha. And we might vote against things that we don't have a good understanding of.
I do think there is and many others do as well. You keep using the word "testing", and then talk about raising funds. How about raising funds off the MMO? Heck make a single player RPG from the game first and raise funds that way. That is closer than an extraction mode. It doesn't seem to be just "testing" as you and Sav keep saying, no they are using the word Extraction and even Ben Dean came out and said so. So no sorry the just "testing" thing doesn't really cut it anymore.
"What do you do when the community votes for something that just isn't a good decision for the company moving forward?"
??? This game wouldn't exist without the votes of the community funding it.
"We'd vote for all kinds of things that they just wouldn't be able to do, haha. And we might vote against things that we don't have a good understanding of."
Correct and then you integrate that feedback and try to find a compromise or middle ground. That is what is called communication.
