Unless VR decides to go the route of no lvl cap in game the problem for me with xp loss being the only penalty for death is then death becomes pointless at max level. VR has already stated that there is almost no chance with the game launching with a AA type system in place. This means that a decent size portion of the player base will be close to max level before there is another reason to worry about xp.
Now if VR decides to have XP actually be a usable type of resource in the game then we can start a real discussion on XP loss being the only penalty for dieing.
What I mean by this is say the higher tier of crafting requires the crafter to pour some of his own essence into the creation process. For example a ring that is close to raid tier lvl drops may cost the crafter 3 mil xp to craft on top of the other material componets. Higher lvl class abilities may cost the player tens of thousands of xp to hundreds of thousands of XP to activate the ability depending on the lvl/power of the ability being used. Perhaps there is atmosperic enviroment that drains the players XP instead of the normal health draining. And with all of the above if the XP loss is enough it can de-level you in the process.
For me that would now put loss of XP on the same playing field as having to go retrieve your corpse to get your equipment back.
Velrak said:Unless VR decides to go the route of no lvl cap in game the problem for me with xp loss being the only penalty for death is then death becomes pointless at max level. VR has already stated that there is almost no chance with the game launching with a AA type system in place. This means that a decent size portion of the player base will be close to max level before there is another reason to worry about xp.
Now if VR decides to have XP actually be a usable type of resource in the game then we can start a real discussion on XP loss being the only penalty for dieing.
What I mean by this is say the higher tier of crafting requires the crafter to pour some of his own essence into the creation process. For example a ring that is close to raid tier lvl drops may cost the crafter 3 mil xp to craft on top of the other material componets. Higher lvl class abilities may cost the player tens of thousands of xp to hundreds of thousands of XP to activate the ability depending on the lvl/power of the ability being used. Perhaps there is atmosperic enviroment that drains the players XP instead of the normal health draining. And with all of the above if the XP loss is enough it can de-level you in the process.
For me that would now put loss of XP on the same playing field as having to go retrieve your corpse to get your equipment back.
Very good point Velrak.
Velrak said:Unless VR decides to go the route of no lvl cap in game the problem for me with xp loss being the only penalty for death is then death becomes pointless at max level. VR has already stated that there is almost no chance with the game launching with a AA type system in place. This means that a decent size portion of the player base will be close to max level before there is another reason to worry about xp.
Now if VR decides to have XP actually be a usable type of resource in the game then we can start a real discussion on XP loss being the only penalty for dieing.
What I mean by this is say the higher tier of crafting requires the crafter to pour some of his own essence into the creation process. For example a ring that is close to raid tier lvl drops may cost the crafter 3 mil xp to craft on top of the other material componets. Higher lvl class abilities may cost the player tens of thousands of xp to hundreds of thousands of XP to activate the ability depending on the lvl/power of the ability being used. Perhaps there is atmosperic enviroment that drains the players XP instead of the normal health draining. And with all of the above if the XP loss is enough it can de-level you in the process.
For me that would now put loss of XP on the same playing field as having to go retrieve your corpse to get your equipment back.
Indeed. This is why I think de-leveling needs to be included in the game. The only other alternative that I could think of was having a "debt sickness" debuff. I prefer pure XP loss with the possibility to de-level over a debt system but it's been stated that they will test out both. If they end up going with debt over de-leveling then I think it's really important that players have a major debuff while they have debt. But that doesn't mean that a single death would put a max level player into debt. They would have a buffer to manage, up to 99% into the next level. Whenever an expansion launches with an increase to level cap they could just reset the XP for all max level players to 0. In any event, I 100% agree with your stance and this is a point I have been making for several years on this forum. I am also highly intrigued by other systems/features/mechanics that allow players to leverage their XP as a resource. It would be really interesting if our XP could be used as a way to earn a separate "deity favor" resource by sacrificing it at an altar. I would be a fan of all of those things but it ultimately comes down to XP being a valuable resource to begin with. It should be difficult to obtain and easy to lose, IMO.
oneADseven said:I highly doubt we'll see naked corpse runs. This has been discussed quite a bit over the years but you're 100% right in saying that Pantheon is not an EQ redux.
VG was not a redux of EQ. Were there striking similarities to EQ? Of course there were. Pantheon will not be a redux of EQ nor VG. Will there be strong similarities to EQ and VG? Of course there will be. You do realize Brad M/Aradune is major part of this game as well. There will likely be some very similar mechanisms between EQ and Pantheon, it's nothing to be afraid or scared of. Anyway, CR are one of several factors that I'd like to see that keeps death meaningful and important even at max level. #communitymatters #makenightmatteragain
Added: I agree with you on XP being lost and being very valuable.
Syrif said:VG was not a redux of EQ. Were there striking similarities to EQ? Of course there were. Pantheon will not be a redux of EQ nor VG. Will there be strong similarities to EQ and VG? Of course there will be. You do realize Brad M/Aradune is major part of this game as well. There will likely be some very similar mechanisms between EQ and Pantheon, it's nothing to be afraid or scared of. Anyway, CR are one of several factors that I'd like to see that keeps death meaningful and important even at max level.
I am well aware and have shared various posts that Brad has made on the death penalty subject throughout this thread. He is the CCO for VR and as such holds the highest creative authority and influence. I provided a breakdown of his various statements and explained how piecing them together helped me arrive to what I personally view as the "sweet spot" for the death penalty. I'm not afraid or scared of naked corpse runs. I just objectively view them as an undesired extreme (for this game) as was alluded to by Brad M/Aradune. When I suggested that XP should be attached to corpses instead of loot, again, that was in agreement with something that Brad had previously shared as a possibility that VR was considering, and one that they felt would be compelling enough to encourage players to retrieve their corpse. In the end, I agree that corpse runs would be a good thing for this game ... but "naked corpse runs" are most likely where a "compromise" is in order. I didn't come up with this on my own ... I have been following the bread crumb trail.
We shall see. Nice thoughts on XP and XP-loss being very, very valuable.