BamBam said: I would run and hope VR finally realised that never ending agro might not be the "best" solution for a game released in 2020 ;) when they fix the never ending agro bug, and I get de agro i will continue my mmo experience and have a blast. :). Even mobs in dungeons on WoW dont deaggro or leash, only difference is you share it wity other groups.
Porygon said:The amount of people willing to train and kill others for their own benefit (not dying) on these boards is absurd.
Apparently in pantheon "community matters", but only until you might die from making a mistake, then F that community they can fend for themselves.
The only true answer to this is die in a place where you can get to your corpse easily but not kill other players.
The only true answer? That's very subjective. Given too many factors.
Community does matter, but if that community behaves in a way that doesn't care about one life the whole thing falls apart. You believe you should sacrifice yourself and be a martyr?
My thoughts may be very different here, but as that hypothetical group, I think they should try and save that person rather than let them die and have to run back. Its a win win for them. Get xp from the kills and save someone. All actions have consequences. Good or bad.
My two plats
I would immediately hit Feign Death and confound the mobs with my ability to play possum!
Oh, wait, I'm not a Monk, you say?
Then I would immediately hit Vanish and confound the mobs with my sudden disappearance!
What? I'm not a Rogue either?
Then I would Leroy Jenkins the entire group of mobs and go out in a blaze of glory! See? There's always a solution!
Porygon said:The amount of people willing to train and kill others for their own benefit (not dying) on these boards is absurd.
Apparently in pantheon "community matters", but only until you might die from making a mistake, then F that community they can fend for themselves.
The only true answer to this is die in a place where you can get to your corpse easily but not kill other players.
Correct. And yet.. FD is going to be in the game, malicious training will be in the game, and this scenario will happen, non-stop. :) Welcome to the "fun".
Porygon said:The amount of people willing to train and kill others for their own benefit (not dying) on these boards is absurd.
Apparently in pantheon "community matters", but only until you might die from making a mistake, then F that community they can fend for themselves.
The only true answer to this is die in a place where you can get to your corpse easily but not kill other players.
In contrast, I am very surprised by the amount of people who post here saying they would die. Tbh, I don't believe that until I see it. Maybe I've been exposed to other MMO "communities" for too long.
Bronsun said:Porygon said:The amount of people willing to train and kill others for their own benefit (not dying) on these boards is absurd.
Apparently in pantheon "community matters", but only until you might die from making a mistake, then F that community they can fend for themselves.
The only true answer to this is die in a place where you can get to your corpse easily but not kill other players.
The only true answer? That's very subjective. Given too many factors.
Community does matter, but if that community behaves in a way that doesn't care about one life the whole thing falls apart. You believe you should sacrifice yourself and be a martyr?
My thoughts may be very different here, but as that hypothetical group, I think they should try and save that person rather than let them die and have to run back. Its a win win for them. Get xp from the kills and save someone. All actions have consequences. Good or bad.
My two plats
I dont disagree with you, but at the same time, you can die and expect others to help you retrieve. When I 6 boxed in eq1 I didnt want to play with others, but if someone needed help clearing to a corpse I would do it. Exp is exp. Actually found a obulus death shroud helping someone this way!
I would surely train the zone line, but I would shout a warning on my way there and try to delay to give time to clear out if possible. Expecting others to die so that you can hang out or go afk at the zone line is discourteous in my opinion. I do accept and respect that some people feel differently, but I think in an ideal world people would avoid being vulnerable at the zone line given that it is the one surefire refuge for people who get into trouble in the zone.
Porygon said:The amount of people willing to train and kill others for their own benefit (not dying) on these boards is absurd.
Apparently in pantheon "community matters", but only until you might die from making a mistake, then F that community they can fend for themselves.
The only true answer to this is die in a place where you can get to your corpse easily but not kill other players.
I dunno mate, many times in this scenario in eq if someone pulls a train and I am in a group waiting at the zone we'd join them and clean up the mess or vice versa... So it's a bit presumptuous to think that. The scenario doesn't say they are afk for instance which would change things... You don't have to die alone in Pantheon, I'll help ya try to survive (and die fighting) if you run to me in need of a hand :) trains trying to survive are a thing... FD trains are a douche move.
When it cpmes right down to it, when people set up camps they make sure that are out of the way of "routes" to the zoneline so when people "train" they dont have to wrry to much about hurting other players. like in lguk out of all the camps there were basically only 2 that had any danger of being trained and that was bedroom, and safe hallway, the other were completely out of the way of being trained unless yuo were running to them with a train, and not to the zoneline. and people set up these camps to prevent this becuase they were intellient enough to stay close enough tot he target of mobs they wanted to farm and also give people who needed to get to the zoneline fast didnt have to worry about getting them killed which prevents a ton of these scenarios, becuase the likely hood of it happening should be avoided completely.
Thallium said:Depends if the zoneline was right behind the pathway they're stood in, if it is I would just warn them of the train and we would all have to zone out.
Pantheon will have instanced zones? :(
I'd try and get far enough away from them to drop threat I guess. The classes I play don't usually have a feign death-style mechanic.
Naunet said:Thallium said:Depends if the zoneline was right behind the pathway they're stood in, if it is I would just warn them of the train and we would all have to zone out.Pantheon will have instanced zones? :(
I'd try and get far enough away from them to drop threat I guess. The classes I play don't usually have a feign death-style mechanic.
Instanced? No
Zones? Yes
We do not yet know how leashing will work, or if you will be required to gate/zone/other to clear aggro.
Naunet said:Pantheon will have instanced zones? :(
I'd try and get far enough away from them to drop threat I guess. The classes I play don't usually have a feign death-style mechanic.
I believe they have stated that Pantheon won't have leashing, so nothing will ever be "far enough" until you hit the zone line. I'm not 100% on that though.
To your question: Pantheon will have separate non-instanced zones. There will be zone lines where you get a loading screen, but when you pop up on the other side you will still be in the open world with everyone standing around you. The exception to this is a few instances for specific purposes (certain quest npcs) and possibly sharding (I haven't seen a great description of how sharding will work in Pantheon if it is included at all).
Porygon said:I dont disagree with you, but at the same time, you can die and expect others to help you retrieve. When I 6 boxed in eq1 I didnt want to play with others, but if someone needed help clearing to a corpse I would do it. Exp is exp. Actually found a obulus death shroud helping someone this way!
Thumbs up
Keno Monster said:We do not yet know how leashing will work, or if you will be required to gate/zone/other to clear aggro.
I've just been presuming it would work like any other MMO I've played and there's some sort of range a mob with stay in, beyond which they leash back to where they were. But I guess it could be different!
"Zoning" suggested that there would be some sort of loading into another zone, which is why I got confused as I thought Pantheon was going to be an open-world game. xD
Ainadak said:I believe they have stated that Pantheon won't have leashing, so nothing will ever be "far enough" until you hit the zone line. I'm not 100% on that though.To your question: Pantheon will have separate non-instanced zones. There will be zone lines where you get a loading screen, but when you pop up on the other side you will still be in the open world with everyone standing around you. The exception to this is a few instances for specific purposes (certain quest npcs) and possibly sharding (I haven't seen a great description of how sharding will work in Pantheon if it is included at all).
Ah, I see. Loading screens between zones IS instanced zones, though.
Naunet said:Keno Monster said:We do not yet know how leashing will work, or if you will be required to gate/zone/other to clear aggro.I've just been presuming it would work like any other MMO I've played and there's some sort of range a mob with stay in, beyond which they leash back to where they were. But I guess it could be different!
"Zoning" suggested that there would be some sort of loading into another zone, which is why I got confused as I thought Pantheon was going to be an open-world game. xD
Ainadak said:I believe they have stated that Pantheon won't have leashing, so nothing will ever be "far enough" until you hit the zone line. I'm not 100% on that though.To your question: Pantheon will have separate non-instanced zones. There will be zone lines where you get a loading screen, but when you pop up on the other side you will still be in the open world with everyone standing around you. The exception to this is a few instances for specific purposes (certain quest npcs) and possibly sharding (I haven't seen a great description of how sharding will work in Pantheon if it is included at all).
Ah, I see. Loading screens between zones IS instanced zones, though.
There are zones and it is open world becuase regardless of where you go there is a chance that other people will be there.
Thallium said:vjek said:Kilsin said:Scenario: You accidentally aggro a room full of mobs in an outdoor area, your first reaction is to run but there is a small group of players waiting patiently for a member to catch up to them in the pathway of the only exit - What do you do?
In Pantheon, with the current public design goals?
Three choices:
1) Die on the spot so you don't train the group. (Mmmm fun! Hours of grinding back that XP.)
2) Run in the opposite direction of the group and die where you can't get to your body (presumably, can you outrun mobs today? yes? no?)
3) Train the group and not die yourself. (possibly killing all of them)
Selfless is punished. Honorable is punished. Selfish is rewarded. You have created the mechanics that lead to these toxic choices. /shrug
What a bleak way to view things…
In this scenario, you have to ask why the player was solo in a room full of mobs, doing something risky no doubt, with risk there is always chance of failure/death. And in an open world this can impact others. It’s part of what makes the game interesting.
Your first option which you say is selflessness punished – first of all nothing is truly selfless; it’s likely in this scenario you get a res and if res mechanics worked like EQ one you would get your xp back. You also put yourself in a scenario where maybe you earn a spot in there group later on and/or get added to friends for future grouping opportunities later on which you might not get if you had chosen to just run a train into them.
Your second option is just ridiculous why would anyone run in a direction they can’t get their body back over dying on the spot – this just makes no sense.
Your third option which you believe is rewarding selfish behaviour; well firstly, if my above statement for option one is accurate the opposite happens you might put those people off ever from grouping with you so yes you get some short-term gain but long term you lose out (potentially).
Also, your whole thing about mechanics that create toxic choices – this is ridiculous they are the exact same mechanics from an MMO that was hailed as being one of the most cooperative mmos ever to exist.
It was these punishing mechanics that lead people to help each other out and not be jerks to each other. It was also accepted that trains happened and so long as you weren’t doing it on purpose / constantly repeating mistakes the group in the scenario would not be too unhappy you trained them. Trains in the game are just par for the course and something you take into account while you’re playing and try to avoid them where possible and help people out in the event of them. Mobs not being leashed adds a huge amount of challenge and random danger to the world. Can people abuse it? Sure, but in my experience this was a very rare event and worth it for the upsides they provide.
Sadly people dont understand this type of discipline anymore as most people aren not truly disciplined these days ;).
(accidently qutoed myself instead of editing)
Once the train starts, I would /shout Train to zone! If there's a group there, I'd zone out, then zone back in and start mezzing mobs, as I'll be playing a chanty, and help derail the train. If the group is in a long hallway or a bottleneck, I'd stand, AoE mezz as many mobs as i could, shout for /help and either die or be saved/ rezzed by the group in question.
Riahuf22 said:looking at it from another point of view, if i am a rezzer in the other grp, and i saw you sacraficed yourself so you didnt train us, i would gladly rez you and send you on your way, but if you trained us, and i remember your name i probably would never rez yuo regardless of how it looks becuase you gave it no conquence for getting me killed or my group, so why would i care if you really need that rez?
Now i understand accidents, and if i get a message saying you are sorry and everything and you do your best t get us a rez or something like this to make up for it than fine, i wont be that person, becuase i dont want to be that person, but if you simply just get us killed becuase you didnt want to die yourself than i see little reason in giving you more respect than you gave me.
I love trains, sometimes its fun to try to derail them as well, but usually if youre paying attention which is something youre going to have to do when it comes to survival in this game unlike the other candyland mmos you have been playing lately, you will proceed to a safe spot or a zoneline if someone does HAVE to train, And also those who cry toxicity are mentally toddlers.....just saying!
Naunet said:Keno Monster said:We do not yet know how leashing will work, or if you will be required to gate/zone/other to clear aggro.I've just been presuming it would work like any other MMO I've played and there's some sort of range a mob with stay in, beyond which they leash back to where they were. But I guess it could be different!
"Zoning" suggested that there would be some sort of loading into another zone, which is why I got confused as I thought Pantheon was going to be an open-world game. xD
Ainadak said:I believe they have stated that Pantheon won't have leashing, so nothing will ever be "far enough" until you hit the zone line. I'm not 100% on that though.To your question: Pantheon will have separate non-instanced zones. There will be zone lines where you get a loading screen, but when you pop up on the other side you will still be in the open world with everyone standing around you. The exception to this is a few instances for specific purposes (certain quest npcs) and possibly sharding (I haven't seen a great description of how sharding will work in Pantheon if it is included at all).
Ah, I see. Loading screens between zones IS instanced zones, though.
For the sake of these boards, that's not how instancing is used. It means to have multiple copies of the same zone. /shrug They've always been up front that this won't be a seamless world between areas, which I happen to think is great.
Kilsin said:Scenario: You accidentally aggro a room full of mobs in an outdoor area, your first reaction is to run but there is a small group of players waiting patiently for a member to catch up to them in the pathway of the only exit - What do you do? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
Hahaha! I've actually had this happen a few times both outdoor and in a dungeon. It's always ended in one of three ways. First, I scream train to zone and try to kite long enough for them to get clear before I make a break for it. Second, if I see they can't, there's no kiting room, and no other exit, I'll eat the death rather than wipe the group. Third, I'll try to do a tell kite to see if they might can give me a hand killing these or try to quickly move to safety so I can bolt. Playing EverQuest made me really good at kiting and typing.
Now there has been the rare instance where I accidently bowled a group over even though I screamed train. It was just a bad timing thing. Total mishap and accident. And I did try to get them rezzes.
