Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

No random loot boxes please!

    • 24 posts
    November 28, 2017 4:04 PM PST

    Aradune said:

    Beefcake said:

    Retsof said:

    I think a special ruleset server with absolutely no way to trade across servers should solve any issue. The only concern I have at that point is the Sony effect where they change the rules later and make it available ... at a cost.

    This is the biggest concern. Don't get the community to allow this, since it's only on specialized servers, then later change the rules to bring it elsewhere.

    Totally hear you guys.  Again:

    1. This is just an idea that I wanted to bring to you all and hear your experiences and thoughts.  There are *NO* plans for such a server.

    2. We would isolate it and not allow transfers and such

    3. We would *never* change the rules and bring it to a regular server.

     

    Bolded Line, Problem is, if it for game time in effect it would be transfered just based on the fact it would allow you to buy the token on one server and it would affect the buyers account. running into the buy XXX item on non-special server for 3 plex on special rules set server.

     

    • 234 posts
    November 28, 2017 4:16 PM PST

    Aradune said:

    Let me ask a follow-up question then:

    Were we to do this on an alternate ruleset server, not allow any transfers of anything to other servers (as mentioned above), if your job was to design it, how would you do it?

    The goal would be to stop gold farming.

    The *only* item purchasable for real money would be PLEX item.

    This sort of goes back to idea vs implementation -- can such a system be designed to minimize the negatives you've brought up and maximize the positives?  Could it be designed to do more good than harm?

    Pros: 

    - Players that have a lot of play time can essentially play for free by buying from those that do not have playtime but do have real money.

    - Keeps players that would otherwise have to go get jobs/make money for the sub a way to stay in game/help the community

    - Cuts into the Gold Farmers market

    Cons:

    - The core issue is as has already been raised, is it allows those with a good real life cash flow to pay to win.

    - Would allow players with characters on this server and another server to cut deals for in game items on another server for PLEX on this server

    - Probably a dozen other ways to exploit it.

     

    The only way I see this working would be to:

    - Flag an account as PLEX enabled in order to play on this special server

    - PLEX enabled accounts cannot make toons on other servers

    - PLEX enabled accounts may be limited to a single account per IP

    - You may only ever hold one PLEX on your account at a time

    - You cannot use a second PLEX until your first PLEX has expired to extend your subscription

    - If you have traded a PLEX to another player, you must wait one subscription cycle to trade another PLEX

     

    Just a few thoughts that come to mind as a WAY to make this work. 

    But I highly disagree with it existing at all. 

     

    My 2cp

     

    -Az

     

     

    • 3237 posts
    November 28, 2017 4:17 PM PST

    Aradune said:

    Let me ask a follow-up question then:

    Were we to do this on an alternate ruleset server, not allow any transfers of anything to other servers (as mentioned above), if your job was to design it, how would you do it?

    The goal would be to stop gold farming.

    The *only* item purchasable for real money would be PLEX item.

    This sort of goes back to idea vs implementation -- can such a system be designed to minimize the negatives you've brought up and maximize the positives?  Could it be designed to do more good than harm?

    Introducing PLEX might stop "illegal gold farming" but it ultimately gets replaced by "legal gold farming" and it takes over the culture of the entire server.  Rather than people feeling like they are in a world with fantasy creatures, a lot of things will suddenly start to have a monetary value.  Instead of playing the game for fun, some people will try to find ways to do it as a minimum wage (or slightly better for the stellar farmers) job.  Players will be at each other's throats ... even in their own guild.  A server like this is a breeding pit for drama and toxicity.

    Folks who start off here for the "right reasons" will probably regret their decision down the road, and instead of being able to transfer away, they will feel stuck there forever ... being forced to "deal with the madness, miserably" or flush all of their progression down the toilet to reroll on an authentic server.  The "whales" out there would get shafted the most.  They would buy all this plex and then cheat themselves from the real experience of earning anything in the game.  Maybe it would be cool at first ... but in the end, this server will be known as the red-headed step child.

    There would be zero respect from the traditional servers and those who accumulate the most wealth will realize they have nothing more than a mound of ill-gotten gold that is tainted with the blood sweat and tears of professional griefers/farmers and their victims on a server that nobody cares about.  I know a guy from Volonta Forte (Played on The Bazaar server in EQ2) who this happened to.  He lives in a castle.  He was the richest guy on his server (Station Exchange Server) for many years ... but he was miserable.  I have heard plenty of stories that I would be more than happy to share ... some good, but mostly bad.

    All that said ... if this were my job, I would hire Azaya.  With enough restrictions/limitations, maybe a different picture can be painted.  I will spend some time to think about it.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at November 28, 2017 5:09 PM PST
    • 1281 posts
    November 28, 2017 4:49 PM PST

    Aradune said:

    Let me try to throw you guys a curve ball -- curious as to what you guys think of:

    An alternate ruleset server where you *can* buy an item that represents a month of playtime (but that's all, no other real money purchases)?

    Sometimes called PLEX.  Here's how WoW originally described it:

    "We’re exploring the possibility of giving players a way to buy tradable game-time tokens for the purpose of exchanging them in-game with other players for gold. Our current thought on this is that it would give players a way to use their surplus gold to cover some of their subscription cost, while giving players who might have less play time an option for acquiring gold from other players through a legit and secure system."

    No, becuase that is an entry point for players to convert real money into game money. They buy a game token with real dollars then sell that token for in game currency.

    Aradune said:

    Let me ask a follow-up question then:

    Were we to do this on an alternate ruleset server, not allow any transfers of anything to other servers (as mentioned above), if your job was to design it, how would you do it?

    The goal would be to stop gold farming.

    The *only* item purchasable for real money would be PLEX item.

    This sort of goes back to idea vs implementation -- can such a system be designed to minimize the negatives you've brought up and maximize the positives?  Could it be designed to do more good than harm?

    Unless I'm not understanding you, I don't see how players spending real money to buy an item is going to help stop gold farming unless you say each plex will cost you say $15 real money + 1 Million gold or something (the 1 Million gold is then nulled).

    Another way to get gold out of the system is if you allow players to convert the gold into something that never allows them to get the gold back, like say play time that is consumed. Obviously this is an anti-revenue model, but if inflation gets bad enough it might be something to turn-on for a month or something and let players buy up a bunch of game-time tokens, eliminating as much gold from the economy as you need, then turn it back off. Just use it as you see necessary. Of course you could argue this type of system would encourage farming becuase people could play for free, which is not your revenue model, but if you make the tokens cost enough --and adjust that cost based on amount of money you know is in game -- it could still work. Therefore, the more people farm, the more the tokens cost when you turn it on. Gold farmers would never get ahead and you still eliminate money from the game.


    This post was edited by bigdogchris at November 28, 2017 5:09 PM PST
    • 16 posts
    November 28, 2017 5:03 PM PST

    They have a similar ssystem in EVE online. You can buy the PLEX from the CCP games and they are sold on the market in return for in game cash. The company aggressively goes after 3rd party plat farmers (ISK farmers in their case). There have been thousands of bans issued, and although the exchange rate from third party RMT operations is typically better, almost no serious player would be willing to risk the loss of an account with thousands of hours invested for a slightly better return on investment.

    It DOES reduce the amount of third party real money transactions, and there are many players that pay for one or more accounts by using in game money to support their subscriptions. It is also true that it does influence the player economy and the overall cost of goods. I am a Federalist at heart, and I am always up for experimentation. I think that if you were going to introduce a similar system, you would have to put up an absolute firewall between the "PLEX" server and the subscription servers. The characters generated on that server would have to be flagged an neither the characters or the items would be allowed to migrate off server. If that were to happen I think it would seriously erode what you are trying to accomplish with the game.

    Many people are going to play for bragging rights, and as someone pointed out earlier, if you are tracking server firsts or raid zone clears the accomplishments on the "PLEX" servers would need to be listed separately from the subscription based servers.

    All in all, while I have no issue with an alternative "PLEX" server, I think the risk of splitting within the player community given the player base you are aiming for is very real. I would not have this feature available at launch, or in the first year. As the economy of the game progresses, the impact of more in game currency available will diminish, and it may prove a net positive to allow newer players, who will hopefully be drawn to the game, to have a bit of an easier time of it. The biggest advantage would be that unlike third party RMT the devs would set the prices, and hopefully this would result in less distortion of the player economy. The benefit to selling "PLEX" would depend on the overall amount of in game money avialable to a player, which the devs would control to some degree.

    • 151 posts
    November 28, 2017 5:06 PM PST

    I say do it!

    I hate RMT, kronos, cash shops, all of it. I think by creating a place for the type that do like this stuff you are doing the rest of us a favor. Those people will flock to the server that supports this stuff. Hopefully they make it their prmanent home and we all win. VR gets more cash coming in, the regular player base is rid of RMT people. If they are forbidden to ever transfer a character or any items from that server to the real servers they can't contaminate the real servers. Let them play in their pay to win paradise.

    Just never make an adjustment to the game based on anything suggestion or complaint that comes from them, just like you would not make a balance adjustment based on PvP folks complaints. If they want this stuff let me have it just don't take them into consideration when making world wide changes.

     

    • 1785 posts
    November 28, 2017 5:20 PM PST

    My experience with "PLEX"-like systems was in EVE Online and Wildstar.

    In EVE, the system worked great.  However, the caveat to that is that EVE is a game *about* farming money.  Literally, everything you do in the game is to earn money, protect or expand your ability to earn money, or prevent someone else from earning money.  Everything.  So I think we have to keep that in mind.

    In Wildstar, the system worked OK, but the game was very new, and there wasn't a ton of cash floating around the economy, so (in-game) prices were fairly reasonable.  We used them for event prizes.  However, given the time that wildstar has had since then, I don't know if that can still be said.  Their prices might now be out of reach of anyone who hasn't been there forever, without farming a bunch of cash.

    I totally understand the opposition that people have - I think it comes from games that weren't set up with this sort of system in mind to begin with, where it got shoehorned in afterwards.  So the bottom line for me is that I'm ok with it (especially on designated servers) as long as the game's economy is set up in such a way that farming behavior doesn't run rampant.

    • 1860 posts
    November 28, 2017 5:44 PM PST

    It is a HARD no from me.  Even though I wouldn't play on the server...it would make me think less of the game as a whole if I knew this was available.  I'm disappointed that this type of money grab is even being discussed.  Integrity is one thing that keeps people playing over the long run.  Don't lose peoples faith with this type of garbage.


    This post was edited by philo at November 28, 2017 5:46 PM PST
    • 1019 posts
    November 28, 2017 5:47 PM PST

    Sabot said:

    I say do it!

    I hate RMT, kronos, cash shops, all of it. I think by creating a place for the type that do like this stuff you are doing the rest of us a favor. Those people will flock to the server that supports this stuff. Hopefully they make it their prmanent home and we all win. VR gets more cash coming in, the regular player base is rid of RMT people. If they are forbidden to ever transfer a character or any items from that server to the real servers they can't contaminate the real servers. Let them play in their pay to win paradise.

    Just never make an adjustment to the game based on anything suggestion or complaint that comes from them, just like you would not make a balance adjustment based on PvP folks complaints. If they want this stuff let me have it just don't take them into consideration when making world wide changes.

    What if this server turns into the "flagship" server and VR says hey we need money, lets do it with the rest.  Or makes new serves with this ruleset, and slowly shuts others down?

    • 454 posts
    November 28, 2017 6:00 PM PST

    I would not play on a server like the one described.  

    • 24 posts
    November 28, 2017 6:11 PM PST

    I think if it was to become the  "Flagship" it wouldnt be a slow shut down I think alot would leave quickly.

     

    • 769 posts
    November 28, 2017 6:25 PM PST

    I think this is the very definition of a slippery slope. 

    What will you do when that server suddenly begins pulling in so much more money than any other? I'd wager, with that temptation, other servers would soon follow suit. Not that I don't believe your "never" claim Aradune, but this is a business. It's hard to ignore the part of the business that makes the most profit. Better to never give the opportunity for that temptation, I say. 

    • 3237 posts
    November 28, 2017 6:42 PM PST

    I agree with Philo in saying that I would feel disappointed if this type of server existed at all, even knowing that I would never have to associate myself with it.  I have really high hopes for Pantheon, and want it to be a game I will be proud of, in all ways.  If a server like this was implemented, it wouldn't break the game for me ... I would just feel let down.  When I think of Pantheon "evolving the genre" I want VR to be looked up to, and to lead by example.  I want other companies to witness VR making an amazing game that never compromised it's integrity, and to possibly follow suit.  The MMO genre needs a game like Pantheon to take charge and redefine what making a great game is all about.  For me, the lack of P2W should be a golden rule ... no exceptions.  If a game like Pantheon implements plex, even in a limited fashion ... that makes me think that ALL games will do it, and that's just a sad reality.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at November 28, 2017 6:44 PM PST
    • 753 posts
    November 28, 2017 7:03 PM PST

    One thing about it being a different ruleset server.  This isn't the kind of thing I think of when someone mentions different rulesets.  PvP server.  Check.  RP server.  Check.  Classic server.  Check.  In all cases, the one thing you don't normally think of with different ruleset servers is a ruleset that fundamentally changes the dynamics of how the game is played - and I think this does that... and in an unavoidable way. 

    Even if you managed to take all of the "bad" out of what could happen by doing this, the "good" in and of itself alters the economy of that server in a fundamental way.  It amounts to mass in game cash transfers (gold) for out of game benefit (playing time).  No other server would allow players to accumulate mass in game funds with real world cash to spend on anything and everything they want in game with gold. 

    Finally, I think building in a way to circumvent challenge by means of allowing players to buy money to spend on gear, etc... sort of goes against the premise of this game being one where you earn what you get, etc...

    I know that the alternative is gold sellers in game... I still don't like the idea of this as an alternate ruleset server - AND - since it does nothing to combat those gold sellers on other servers.... it really does nothing to solve the problem of gold sellers.

     

    I know this was sort of a jumbled up ramble of a post - so I apologise for that :)


    This post was edited by Wandidar at November 28, 2017 7:06 PM PST
    • 234 posts
    November 28, 2017 7:06 PM PST

    As much as I don't care for this type of server, PLEX/KRNO whatever you call it, there is a hard reality we have to face. 

    Gold farmers will exist, and they will disrupt, I'm not sure how you can really mitigate against that and still keep the game we want at the same time. 

    Perhaps the regional banking system is part of that plan. 

     

    • 264 posts
    November 28, 2017 7:07 PM PST

    I bet the team of people making Pantheon wish to build a great Fantasy World , play in it, and grow it; and they wish to make a decent and fair living from it. In order to do that they need investors, they need accredited investors to avoid having to jump through hoops with accounting and reporting rules that would be a real pain.

    Many people who meet the rules of an accredited investor will accept a certain amount of risk, but will want to see the ability of their investment to make a return. If it is needed to start a couple "special servers" that have no connection to the pure fantasy servers in order to finish the game I would understand and not ***** about it for a second. We would have some cross server trading, but I think the impact would not be too terrible as to hurt the economy of the real game servers much.

    If it is not needed to finish the game I would be against it.

    • 2419 posts
    November 28, 2017 7:42 PM PST

    Aradune said:

    Tsanarith said:

    Are you meaning like Plat in to token Item or ingame Purchase for cash for the token?

     

    Not sure -- it's been done a little differently depending on the game.  It came up in a discussion recently.  My immediate reaction was 'NO!'.  But then after more thought and dialog I thought there was at least enough merit and precedence in other games to bring it to the community and get your reaction.  To be clear:  totally hypothetical at this point -- would love your opinions and experiences (if any) in MMOs that used such a system.  

    EVE Online does this.  A person can pay real money for a PLEX or GTC (game time card) and sell it on the official forums to other players in exchange for in-game currency.  The buyer then uses the PLEX/GTC to extend their subscription.

    I knew people who would spend all their time farming in-game money just to buy PLEX/GTCs so as to not 'pay real money for the game.'  Of course they forgot that all the time spent in-game earning has a real monetary value.  But hey, let them think what they want.

    What the official selling/buying of PLEX allowed players to do, basically, was fatten their in-game wallets to the tune of billions of ISK (the EVE Online in-game currency), buying them whatever it is they wanted.  What it did was lead to a ton of farming by multi-boxers.  LOTS of multi-boxers...to the tune of one person running a fleet of 100 mining ships all on his own.

    • 53 posts
    November 28, 2017 7:51 PM PST

    Aradune said:

    Let me try to throw you guys a curve ball






    Pretty much everything has been covered here. I will just attach my personal opinion on a plex/WoW Token type system.

     

    Why? Why even entertain the thought. To be honest, even adding this on one isolated server is like a gated community allowing a coner of the subdivision to have double wide trailers with camaros parked in the yard.

    Even if a player chooses to not play on a plex server, why even attach that stigma to the game. MMOs nowadays are very VERY word of mounth and MMO players are VERY flighty and you have a lot of MMO competition coming out...So when we tell a friend that this new game Pantheon is coming out and it's devoid of all the free to play, cash shop type features that have ruined the genre for most, are we gonna say....oh but they DO have one server where you can use real life cash to buy a plex and sell it in game for game money.

    While i do not think it is a bad idea in certain OTHER games..can we not have it even associated with this one?

    We dont need it, Brad.



    #TeamOgre


    This post was edited by Hateborn at November 28, 2017 7:53 PM PST
    • 2138 posts
    November 28, 2017 8:05 PM PST

    it facilitates money laundering.

    • 194 posts
    November 28, 2017 8:17 PM PST

    Aradune said:

    Let me ask a follow-up question then:

    Were we to do this on an alternate ruleset server, not allow any transfers of anything to other servers (as mentioned above), if your job was to design it, how would you do it?

    The goal would be to stop gold farming.

    The *only* item purchasable for real money would be PLEX item.

    This sort of goes back to idea vs implementation -- can such a system be designed to minimize the negatives you've brought up and maximize the positives?  Could it be designed to do more good than harm?

     

    I have serious reservations about any system like this.  Liav already outlined one method by which such a system would bleed into 'regular' servers, even if this feature was only present on select shards.  In addition to that, a slightly more insidious way this could impact Pantheon's future is that there may be an incentive (whether conscious or not) to introduce other features that increase the flow of these PLEX items on the servers where they're available.  As an example, Everquest introduced tradable raid-quality items that would drop from regular trash mobs.  These were exceedingly rare (in the year or so I played after they were introduced, I never personally saw one drop) but they netted a large number of Kronos when sold.  The fact that this introduced a pay-to-win pathway to current, raid-quality equipment was the lesser evil that these items introduced, imo.  The greater evil for me was that it was a huge violation of risk-vs-reward.  As RvR is one of Pantheon's tenets, introducing a feature that may (even inadvertantly) introduce an incentive to violate said tenet seems like a step in the wrong direction to me.

     

    • 21 posts
    November 28, 2017 8:25 PM PST

    Its a NO from me too, even as someone who has purchased those tokens to sell for gold and plat so I could buy better stuff. It will increase desperation for money. 

     

    Another idea is flat out buying subscription time with in game currency and not making it an item. Only the account with the money can benefit from that and it removes the money from the game.

     

    Is there a way we can start a poll here or do it on another website to get a tally on for/against?

    • 1785 posts
    November 28, 2017 8:54 PM PST

    I think it's pretty clear that the majority of forum posters here are very opposed to the idea of game-time as currency.  Personally, I think a lot of it is a reaction to poor implementations that many people were subjected to in other games, but there's a philosophical side to the debate as well - and people's feelings there are legitimate.

    Without using PLEX/Krono/etc, here is how I would defeat gold sellers in a game I was designing.

    1) Enable players to right-click and report chat spam in the chat window.  Each report would generate a "signature" based on character matching in the message.

    2) Once the system receives enough reports matching that signature with, say, a 90% degree of accuraccy, all further chat messages sent through the game's chat servers containing that signature are blocked, and the accounts sending them are flagged for action.

    3) In the game's account/billing system, utilize machine learning and heuristics to begin predictively identifying bad accounts over time - based on information such as the IP address the account is registered/created from, email or physical address associated with the account, or credit card info used to create it - essentially, any real world information.  Once the system can successfully predict gold seller accounts, enable it to automatically block account creation matching that criteria.  (Note:  Before anyone jumps in to say this can't be done - this *is* technically possible wth advancements in AI over the last few years, and many major tech companies are investing in marketing this kind of capability for various business applications - Microsoft, Amazon, and Google, just to name three of them.  At least one major MMO on the market is doing something close to this to block gold sellers currently, with good success.)

    4) Provide a method for customer service to remove pieces of information from the "bad account heuristics database" if necessary, in order to handle real world cases of identity theft.  Retain a lawyer and privacy expert to help with this on an ongoing basis.

    5) If account heuristics flags "play" accounts as belonging to gold sellers, and subsequent investigation turns up bad activity (such as large periodic transfers of money to/from other accounts that are seemingly unreleated, investigate and ban aggressively.  The investigation should specifically look for the "farm" accounts that feed the money to the gold sellers, or that feed farmed items to the gold sellers which they sell in order to raise the money.  Those accounts should be banned aggressively.

    6) Based on investigations, customers of gold sellers should have the gold removed, and have their accounts temporarily suspended on the first offense.  Repeat offenses should result in a permanent ban.

    This won't be perfect, but with enough time, it will stop *most* gold seller spambots, and that combined with the harsh enforcement will help dry up their business, making it less economical for them to continue operating.  They will still find ways around the system but it will be difficult.

     

    It MUST be stated however that doing all of this *will* come at a cost to Visionary Realms.  There's not only a development cost to implement, maintain, and update these sorts of systems, but there's also a very real business operating cost in order to maintain the paper trail they'll need.  Like I said, they will need to keep a lawyer and digital privacy expert on retainer.  The systems that leverage real-world customer information to pinpoint bad accounts will have to be airtight and restricted so that they themselves can't be compromised.  It won't be nearly as cheap or easy as implementing a game time currency would be.

     

    I know people don't trust game-time currency systems.  I get why.  But I also think VR needs to carefully consider the economics.  The way I see it, they have three options:

    1) Launch with minimal, human-based anti-gold-seller processes (similar to what most other games that don't do currency have done).  Hope for the best.

    2) Launch with anti-gold-seller systems based on machine learning and heuristics as I outlined above.

    3) Launch with a game-time currency system.

     

    In my experience, Option 1 will be largely ineffective.  Gold sellers will be ever-present and for every one we report and ban, more will spring up.  To avoid spam, players will result to draconian measures like turning off /tells or opting out of chat channels wherever possible.

    In my experience, Option 2 will work, though it will take time to get going.  So initially, gold sellers will be more common.  As more patterns are identified and the system can start predictively matching them, the amount of spam will reduce, and if enforcement follows through, eventually gold sellers will be rare.  That could take months to years to occur, however.

    In my experience, Option 3 will stop the vast majority of third-party gold sellers by killing off their demand.  However, there's a very real risk that it will drive bad behavior among players as the game matures, *especially* if the game's itemization and economy makes "farming" a quick and easy way to generate gold.  This will, in turn, result in economic issues if not carefully regulated.  This can be mitigated to an extent by manipulating the real world price of the currency, but this isn't something you just throw into a game and expect it to cure all ills.  People's reactions in this thread should be proof enough of that.

    That's my $2 response to Aradune's follow up question :)

     

    • 129 posts
    November 28, 2017 9:06 PM PST

    NO.

    NO.

    NO.

    If a player can spend 1000$ to get ingame currency (by selling this PLEX thing to other players), it's PAY TO WIN.

    $ TO GOLD = NO

    $ TO ITEMS/MOUNTS/MATERIALS = NO

    $ TO XP BOOST/CONSUMABLES = NO

    $ TO COSMETICS = OK

     

    • 68 posts
    November 28, 2017 9:10 PM PST

    Aradune said:

    Let me try to throw you guys a curve ball -- curious as to what you guys think of:

    An alternate ruleset server where you *can* buy an item that represents a month of playtime (but that's all, no other real money purchases)?

    Sometimes called PLEX.  Here's how WoW originally described it:

    "We’re exploring the possibility of giving players a way to buy tradable game-time tokens for the purpose of exchanging them in-game with other players for gold. Our current thought on this is that it would give players a way to use their surplus gold to cover some of their subscription cost, while giving players who might have less play time an option for acquiring gold from other players through a legit and secure system."

    As an alternate ruleset, I guess I don't mind so much since I don't personally have to involve myself in that economy, but I'd have to say that while this can be a beneficial way of keeping more players in the game due to some players essentially paying for multiple people's subs, there's also sort of a pay2win element to it. Players can accumulate mass in-game wealth by buying these tokens and then sell them in-game to other players, which then can be turned into powerful items.

    • VR Staff
    • 587 posts
    November 28, 2017 9:17 PM PST

    Very cool, thanks all for the feedback, comments, and analysis of PLEX-like systems in other games.  Your posts essentially reinforced for me why I had the initial negative reaction to the idea (it's an old idea and I'd thought about it years back, but like I said, it was brought up to me very recently and got me thinking about it again).  I think in a way such a system is similar to how I look at Instancing.   Does it solve some real problems?  Yes, but it also creates many more problems than it solves.  The negatives simply far outweigh the one positive (curbing gold farming).  One could argue there is a second positive, that being revenue for the developer as opposed to the farmer, but that was never really part of my thinking process -- for me the way to create a profitable venture is by creating excellent entertainment, experiences, and value for our players -- do that, and everything else falls into place. 

    I also cannot reconcile implementing such a system even if put into a firewalled box, e.g. an alternate ruleset server.  It would still bleed out and contaminate.   As excited as I am about Alternate Ruleset Servers, they are still variations of the core game, they're still Pantheon, and the core audience are the same people.  That means there are lines that should not be crossed, and I think we've found a good example of a system that when looked at holistically crosses that line.

    Anyway, thanks for the discussion and bringing me up to date on how other MMOs have implemented a variety of 'Plex' systems, their similarities and differences.  I was genuinely curious as to whether someone had devised a way to implement such a system without crossing the line into pay-to-win, etc.

    -Brad

     


    This post was edited by Aradune at November 28, 2017 9:44 PM PST