Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Solo players in trouble

This topic has been closed.
    • 753 posts
    May 10, 2017 9:25 AM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    No, they did not make it impossible to solo. They made the encounters (mostly) challenging for a group of the same level.  The game's design is meant to be group oriented. You can't make the bulk of the game solo'able by someone of near-equal level to the mobs, and make it challenging for a group of near-equal level to the mobs. They are mutually exclusive. 

    Yeah,  the sweet spot in EQ was that the mobs you solo'd were mobs that you would have needed to group for a few levels earlier... but that were still high enough to provide you experience you found worth the effort to kill them for.  They weren't group mobs, they weren't solo mobs, they were mobs.

    The simplest of examples in Greater Faydark / Crushbone from EQ.  At level 1, if you went into Crushbone... well, just being there would likely agro half the zone because your agro radius would be so high (player level influenced agro) - and everything would con dead red to you.  The mobs would kill you by looking at you.  In that dungeon though, were people of an appropriate level grouping... at the entrance, at the keep, at the slave pens.  They were grouping because a) they needed to and b) they ultimately got more experience from doing so.

    But also in Crushbone were people on the cusp of leaving Crushbone.  Folks who could, and were soloing mobs that they couldn't solo before... but that were still giving exp.

    The mobs didn't change.  The player's level in relation to the mobs changed - and - there was a sweet spot where, for a few levels, you could solo them and get decent exp.


    This post was edited by Wandidar at May 10, 2017 9:29 AM PDT
    • 1303 posts
    May 10, 2017 9:32 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Personally I hope soloing isn't near as easy/efficient as it was in EQ, especially how easy and good it was for classes like Necro and Mage who could solo even and yellow cons all the way to the level cap with relative ease. 

     

    That's just not true. Not in vanilla, velious or kunark at any rate. And not true even up to PoP except in very very specific highly contested camps. Yes, you might have been able to solo very limited very key white or yellow con mobs at some very narrow level ranges, but it would take you 20+ minutes for one mob and you'd been completed depleted afterward and require a full recovery/rebuff to continue. Possible, technically yes with some huge caveats. Efficient for leveling? Not remotely. 

    • 753 posts
    May 10, 2017 9:47 AM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    Iksar said:

    Personally I hope soloing isn't near as easy/efficient as it was in EQ, especially how easy and good it was for classes like Necro and Mage who could solo even and yellow cons all the way to the level cap with relative ease. 

     

    That's just not true. Not in vanilla, velious or kunark at any rate. And not true even up to PoP except in very very specific highly contested camps. Yes, you might have been able to solo very limited very key white or yellow con mobs at some very narrow level ranges, but it would take you 20+ minutes for one mob and you'd been completed depleted afterward and require a full recovery/rebuff to continue. Possible, technically yes with some huge caveats. Efficient for leveling? Not remotely. 

    Yup.

    Stuff like that you didn't level for the EXP.  You did it to say that you did it... either privately to yourself, or to others.  Soloing a Yellow / Red = Bragging rights.

    • 2752 posts
    May 10, 2017 10:58 AM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    That's just not true. Not in vanilla, velious or kunark at any rate. And not true even up to PoP except in very very specific highly contested camps. Yes, you might have been able to solo very limited very key white or yellow con mobs at some very narrow level ranges, but it would take you 20+ minutes for one mob and you'd been completed depleted afterward and require a full recovery/rebuff to continue. Possible, technically yes with some huge caveats. Efficient for leveling? Not remotely. 

     

    It actually was faster than grouping, and it wouldn't take 20+ minutes for one mob. Mostly you'd focus on high blues and occasional whites up until mid-late 30s. Two rounds of three dots for Necro, all while mostly sitting in lich form generally killed anything old world. I was leveling at about 1.5 times the speed of my friends soloing while they were grouped. 

     

    A skilled enchanter could level even faster than that with charm, even if it was more risky. 

    • 1303 posts
    May 10, 2017 11:26 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Feyshtey said:

    That's just not true. Not in vanilla, velious or kunark at any rate. And not true even up to PoP except in very very specific highly contested camps. Yes, you might have been able to solo very limited very key white or yellow con mobs at some very narrow level ranges, but it would take you 20+ minutes for one mob and you'd been completed depleted afterward and require a full recovery/rebuff to continue. Possible, technically yes with some huge caveats. Efficient for leveling? Not remotely. 

     

    It actually was faster than grouping, and it wouldn't take 20+ minutes for one mob. Mostly you'd focus on high blues and occasional whites up until mid-late 30s. Two rounds of three dots for Necro, all while mostly sitting in lich form generally killed anything old world. I was leveling at about 1.5 times the speed of my friends soloing while they were grouped. 

     

    A skilled enchanter could level even faster than that with charm, even if it was more risky. 

     No, it was not like that for necros. My main was a necro starting in Kunark and thru GoD. I was raid geared, and I never approached what you're describing, despite being able to solo things that even other raid-geared necros could not. I will state unequivocally that necro's did not xp on high blue or white con mobs. Period.  It was stupid to because it was inefficient. You got much better xp from a steady stream of lower blue mobs than you ever could from 3-4 whites per hour. And even blue-cons would take several minutes each, and the best you could hope for was to kill 2 or 3 in serial before having to recoup rebuff you and your pet. Even in PoP with couple hundred AA's focused mostly on things that assisted solo'ing it wasnt until a mob was starting to get to that borderline of becoming light blue that I could keep a steady pace going with relatively minor downtime. But even then I had to make absolutely sure I was in a very limited number of places that allowed me to kite, had to make sure I got the relatively few mobs that didnt summon or were casters or rooted or used ranged or agro'd too heavily on melee and killed my pet or immune to snare, or half a dozen other things that would make that mob a flatout no-go for solo.

    And all of that being 100% true, I regularly had to feign and reset everything if I got a couple of resist at a bad time. That's if feign didnt resist and I got flurry-killed in one round.

    AND, it would still take a many days to get a level doing absolutely nothing but grinding xp, whereas a good group with raid gear in the right camp could get a level in much less time. 

    I will admit that enchanters could consistently solo higher level mobs charming and do so in a shorter period of time than necros. But one resist and they were pretty well screwed, and they didnt have feign. They paid a heavy price on a regular basis with multiple deaths per night for their efforts. If everything went exactly according to plan they could outlevel anyone. If they had anything like "normal" resist rates on white con or higher mobs, they leveled about like the other solo classes, because it was 3 steps forward and 2 steps back all night. 

    • 1584 posts
    May 10, 2017 11:28 AM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    Iksar said:

    Personally I hope soloing isn't near as easy/efficient as it was in EQ, especially how easy and good it was for classes like Necro and Mage who could solo even and yellow cons all the way to the level cap with relative ease. 

     

    That's just not true. Not in vanilla, velious or kunark at any rate. And not true even up to PoP except in very very specific highly contested camps. Yes, you might have been able to solo very limited very key white or yellow con mobs at some very narrow level ranges, but it would take you 20+ minutes for one mob and you'd been completed depleted afterward and require a full recovery/rebuff to continue. Possible, technically yes with some huge caveats. Efficient for leveling? Not remotely. 

    I'm sorry Feyshtey, but Certain classes could very easily solo up to max level if they couldn't find a grp.  Mages, Necros, Druids were very good at doing such things, they simply just were.  Necros were excellent at kiting things around much like Druids but druids usually quaded thing to death, and mages pet were just a great assest for mages to get a few nukes off and watch him die.  It also didn't take them like 20 minutes to kill it a druid quading targets took them maybe 3-4 minutes to kill 8 or more, depending on what they are pulling. and necro and mage were fast killers as well.  so like i said them soloing to max level was very effective.

    • 1303 posts
    May 10, 2017 11:50 AM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    Feyshtey said:

    Iksar said:

    Personally I hope soloing isn't near as easy/efficient as it was in EQ, especially how easy and good it was for classes like Necro and Mage who could solo even and yellow cons all the way to the level cap with relative ease. 

     

    That's just not true. Not in vanilla, velious or kunark at any rate. And not true even up to PoP except in very very specific highly contested camps. Yes, you might have been able to solo very limited very key white or yellow con mobs at some very narrow level ranges, but it would take you 20+ minutes for one mob and you'd been completed depleted afterward and require a full recovery/rebuff to continue. Possible, technically yes with some huge caveats. Efficient for leveling? Not remotely. 

    I'm sorry Feyshtey, but Certain classes could very easily solo up to max level if they couldn't find a grp.  Mages, Necros, Druids were very good at doing such things, they simply just were.  Necros were excellent at kiting things around much like Druids but druids usually quaded thing to death, and mages pet were just a great assest for mages to get a few nukes off and watch him die.  It also didn't take them like 20 minutes to kill it a druid quading targets took them maybe 3-4 minutes to kill 8 or more, depending on what they are pulling. and necro and mage were fast killers as well.  so like i said them soloing to max level was very effective.

    "Being able to solo to max level"
    Yes absolutely possible. 

    Suggesting that it was, "... easy and good it was for classes like Necro and Mage who could solo even and yellow cons all the way to the level cap with relative ease." 
    No. Didnt happen. 

    And they sure as hell didnt level faster than groups that were remotely effective. 

    • 753 posts
    May 10, 2017 11:52 AM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    Feyshtey said:

    Iksar said:

    Personally I hope soloing isn't near as easy/efficient as it was in EQ, especially how easy and good it was for classes like Necro and Mage who could solo even and yellow cons all the way to the level cap with relative ease. 

     

    That's just not true. Not in vanilla, velious or kunark at any rate. And not true even up to PoP except in very very specific highly contested camps. Yes, you might have been able to solo very limited very key white or yellow con mobs at some very narrow level ranges, but it would take you 20+ minutes for one mob and you'd been completed depleted afterward and require a full recovery/rebuff to continue. Possible, technically yes with some huge caveats. Efficient for leveling? Not remotely. 

    I'm sorry Feyshtey, but Certain classes could very easily solo up to max level if they couldn't find a grp.  Mages, Necros, Druids were very good at doing such things, they simply just were.  Necros were excellent at kiting things around much like Druids but druids usually quaded thing to death, and mages pet were just a great assest for mages to get a few nukes off and watch him die.  It also didn't take them like 20 minutes to kill it a druid quading targets took them maybe 3-4 minutes to kill 8 or more, depending on what they are pulling. and necro and mage were fast killers as well.  so like i said them soloing to max level was very effective.

    I solo'd a ton as a ranger.  It wasn't as efficient as a group... and I largely kept to dark blues because dark blues where my most efficient mobs to kill.  I think the argument is more whether or not killing Yellows and Reds for exp farming was a common thing.  My answer is that I think there were some people doing it - but for most of the population, the skill to kill those mobs efficiently enough to be a source for exp grinding just didn't exist.

    • 3 posts
    May 10, 2017 12:53 PM PDT

    So am i getting this right, scrubby mobs in open world not (dungeons or raids) are going to be group content. If this is true all it leads to is alot of ppl having half arse ideas on what there toon is even capable of doing as they don't have to hold there own. Then they get into hard content like raids and dungeons and SUCK, you can sugar coat this **** however you want but its exactly what happens.

    Its why the kiddies cry about DPS meters "who cares if they got the best epuipment you can get" but like a full epuipped DPS is doing less damage than a tank. Then you get stupid tweets like this below.

    This is a tweet from Pantheon

    What, in your opinion, separates the great players from the rest in MMORPGs? #PRF #Communitymatters https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6189/what-makes-them-the-best/view/post_id/112417 

    The answer is easy, and its not holding hands in a fraking group todo basic crap out of dungeons and raids. Yes you can have a elite mob or a boss within a group of mobs but not every single goddam 1

    /end rant

     

    • 1303 posts
    May 10, 2017 12:58 PM PDT

    Darknstoned said:

    So am i getting this right, scrubby mobs in open world not (dungeons or raids) are going to be group content. If this is true all it leads to is alot of ppl having half arse ideas on what there toon is even capable of doing as they don't have to hold there own. Then they get into hard content like raids and dungeons and SUCK, you can sugar coat this **** however you want but its exactly what happens.

    Its why the kiddies cry about DPS meters "who cares if they got the best epuipment you can get" but like a full epuipped DPS is doing less damage than a tank. Then you get stupid tweets like this below.

    This is a tweet from Pantheon

    What, in your opinion, separates the great players from the rest in MMORPGs? #PRF #Communitymatters https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6189/what-makes-them-the-best/view/post_id/112417 …

    The answer is easy, and its not holding hands in a fraking group todo basic crap out of dungeons and raids. Yes you can have a elite mob or a boss within a group of mobs but not every single goddam 1

    /end rant

     

    Aside from being pretty unimpressed with the tone, I don't even really know what you're trying to say. 

    • 238 posts
    May 10, 2017 12:59 PM PDT

    Soloed a green skelly on my warrior one time in my 30s, felt good, just had to go take a nap while my HP came back.

    • 157 posts
    May 10, 2017 1:06 PM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    Darknstoned said:

    So am i getting this right, scrubby mobs in open world not (dungeons or raids) are going to be group content. If this is true all it leads to is alot of ppl having half arse ideas on what there toon is even capable of doing as they don't have to hold there own. Then they get into hard content like raids and dungeons and SUCK, you can sugar coat this **** however you want but its exactly what happens.

    Its why the kiddies cry about DPS meters "who cares if they got the best epuipment you can get" but like a full epuipped DPS is doing less damage than a tank. Then you get stupid tweets like this below.

    This is a tweet from Pantheon

    What, in your opinion, separates the great players from the rest in MMORPGs? #PRF #Communitymatters https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6189/what-makes-them-the-best/view/post_id/112417 …

    The answer is easy, and its not holding hands in a fraking group todo basic crap out of dungeons and raids. Yes you can have a elite mob or a boss within a group of mobs but not every single goddam 1

    /end rant

     

    Aside from being pretty unimpressed with the tone, I don't even really know what you're trying to say. 

     

    In my head when I finished reading his post was, "uhh.. what?" ..  I *think* he's trying to say there should be solo content ;p

    • 157 posts
    May 10, 2017 1:09 PM PDT

    Xonth said:

    Soloed a green skelly on my warrior one time in my 30s, felt good, just had to go take a nap while my HP came back.

     

    Some may think you're kidding, but I remember watching a friend of mine in full crafted and probably some pretty gimp weapons like a Langseax of the wolves,  solo'ing greens in Dagnor's Cauldron in his 30s (i think), and the downtime to regen his health back was basically full episodes from a 30 minute show.

    • 510 posts
    May 10, 2017 2:12 PM PDT

    As an enchanter I could definately solo yellow cons.  And one screw-up and I had to use enchanter feign.  Huh?  What's that?  Enchanters had a special ability to make mobs completely forget about them and make them lay down.  It cost a little bit of XP and all of your mana and even came with it's own text to let you know when you were using it...

     

    LOADING, please wait...

    • 1584 posts
    May 10, 2017 2:26 PM PDT

    Wandidar said:

    Riahuf22 said:

    Feyshtey said:

    Iksar said:

    Personally I hope soloing isn't near as easy/efficient as it was in EQ, especially how easy and good it was for classes like Necro and Mage who could solo even and yellow cons all the way to the level cap with relative ease. 

     

    That's just not true. Not in vanilla, velious or kunark at any rate. And not true even up to PoP except in very very specific highly contested camps. Yes, you might have been able to solo very limited very key white or yellow con mobs at some very narrow level ranges, but it would take you 20+ minutes for one mob and you'd been completed depleted afterward and require a full recovery/rebuff to continue. Possible, technically yes with some huge caveats. Efficient for leveling? Not remotely. 

    I'm sorry Feyshtey, but Certain classes could very easily solo up to max level if they couldn't find a grp.  Mages, Necros, Druids were very good at doing such things, they simply just were.  Necros were excellent at kiting things around much like Druids but druids usually quaded thing to death, and mages pet were just a great assest for mages to get a few nukes off and watch him die.  It also didn't take them like 20 minutes to kill it a druid quading targets took them maybe 3-4 minutes to kill 8 or more, depending on what they are pulling. and necro and mage were fast killers as well.  so like i said them soloing to max level was very effective.

    I solo'd a ton as a ranger.  It wasn't as efficient as a group... and I largely kept to dark blues because dark blues where my most efficient mobs to kill.  I think the argument is more whether or not killing Yellows and Reds for exp farming was a common thing.  My answer is that I think there were some people doing it - but for most of the population, the skill to kill those mobs efficiently enough to be a source for exp grinding just didn't exist.

    Happened all the time especially with druids and necros becuase they had there:

    Druid: Charm animal, Snare, Root, DoTs, DD, SoW, basically they root and rotted

    Necro: Pet, Snare, Fear, DoTs, FD, Root, they either feat kiting it to death or root and rotted


    This post was edited by Cealtric at May 10, 2017 2:32 PM PDT
    • 2752 posts
    May 10, 2017 2:49 PM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    No, it was not like that for necros. My main was a necro starting in Kunark and thru GoD. I was raid geared, and I never approached what you're describing, despite being able to solo things that even other raid-geared necros could not. I will state unequivocally that necro's did not xp on high blue or white con mobs. Period.  It was stupid to because it was inefficient. You got much better xp from a steady stream of lower blue mobs than you ever could from 3-4 whites per hour. And even blue-cons would take several minutes each, and the best you could hope for was to kill 2 or 3 in serial before having to recoup rebuff you and your pet. Even in PoP with couple hundred AA's focused mostly on things that assisted solo'ing it wasnt until a mob was starting to get to that borderline of becoming light blue that I could keep a steady pace going with relatively minor downtime. But even then I had to make absolutely sure I was in a very limited number of places that allowed me to kite, had to make sure I got the relatively few mobs that didnt summon or were casters or rooted or used ranged or agro'd too heavily on melee and killed my pet or immune to snare, or half a dozen other things that would make that mob a flatout no-go for solo.

    And all of that being 100% true, I regularly had to feign and reset everything if I got a couple of resist at a bad time. That's if feign didnt resist and I got flurry-killed in one round.

    AND, it would still take a many days to get a level doing absolutely nothing but grinding xp, whereas a good group with raid gear in the right camp could get a level in much less time. 

     

    I am not talking about level 50+ at all so raid geared or anything else means nothing. I am talking about classic leveling, in the old world where mobs had considerably less hp than kunark onward, and in pre-Luclin EQ. 

     

    It may not be entirely classic but I'd bet it is skewed in favor of groups in P1999, but I tested it with friends. In equal time I leveled 1.5 times their speed as an Iksar necro soloing high blues/whites. Spending level 19-24 killing Gargoyles in OOT, 24-28 killing guards in Highkeep, 28-31 killing Tesch Mas Gnolls, 31-35 killing guards in Misty Thicket, 35-37 doing Toll Booth guards, 37-45 doing Spectres, 45-50 doing East Freeport guards. 

    • 10 posts
    May 10, 2017 3:23 PM PDT

    My personal guess would be that most every class would be able to solo/pair up to 10-14 pretty easily like you could in EQ. Some were faster at than others, but overall, most everyone could do it without too much hassle. After that, grouping becomes more and more necessary to make decent progress. Those that want to solo can still try to eek out levels, and those that want to fly can do full group runs.

    I'm hoping for about the same leveling process as EQ in the Kunark days. Maybe a touch faster, but not much.

     

    - Dalmarus

    • 3 posts
    May 10, 2017 3:33 PM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    Darknstoned said:

    So am i getting this right, scrubby mobs in open world not (dungeons or raids) are going to be group content. If this is true all it leads to is alot of ppl having half arse ideas on what there toon is even capable of doing as they don't have to hold there own. Then they get into hard content like raids and dungeons and SUCK, you can sugar coat this **** however you want but its exactly what happens.

    Its why the kiddies cry about DPS meters "who cares if they got the best epuipment you can get" but like a full epuipped DPS is doing less damage than a tank. Then you get stupid tweets like this below.

    This is a tweet from Pantheon

    What, in your opinion, separates the great players from the rest in MMORPGs? #PRF #Communitymatters https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6189/what-makes-them-the-best/view/post_id/112417 …

    The answer is easy, and its not holding hands in a fraking group todo basic crap out of dungeons and raids. Yes you can have a elite mob or a boss within a group of mobs but not every single goddam 1

    /end rant

     

    Aside from being pretty unimpressed with the tone, I don't even really know what you're trying to say. 

    I dont care what you think of my tone

    Simply unless you are in a dungeon or raid you shouldnt need to group.

    Having to kite some mob around to kill it in open world, as what ive seen in the streams there always got 4 on 1 mob which looks like open world in some locations

    • 73 posts
    May 10, 2017 3:44 PM PDT

    oneADseven said: I have no issue with solo content. To be honest, I would like to see portions of the Rites of Passage system include some very challenging objectives that can only be completed while solo. Beyond that, players should be able to harvest while solo. There should be some places in the world where that is viable. The majority of the game will be catered toward group content and eventually we will see powerful duos or trios able to tough through it. There are a lot of passionate people following this game who place a very high value on the various tenets that have been established and communicated very clearly to us. VR has emphasized many many times that grouping will make up the core of the game. Woot! I can't wait to get inside and see what all the big fuss is about. It will be epic ... and something I will be able to enjoy with many, many friends.

    So, this speaks to me on this topic.  Soloing should not be a pure route to success, but it should allow people to accomplish things without a group when time, interval (having to leave game to take care of RL like kids), or general inability to find a group doing what you want.  I think that's what they have said.  Focus on grouping, but you shouldn't be completely lost if you can't get a group.  May not be glamorous, but you might crank some xp, work on an epic quest, but...

    I have fond memories of solo challenges like: Best of the Best (tm) in EQ1.  Those players who have gone into some event or have a title/gear (cosmetic is fine here as well) to show that while they are good at their class in a group, they've mastered class-specific play.  Clerics might master the use of roots, stuns, heals, iconic shield ability, to come out of an encounter alive after 2 minutes no cleric should be able to survive.  I was a raid cleric in EQ1 - and I got so fed up with 'stare at book in corner' I solo'd mobs in PoP.  Took me like 30 minutes and died many times trying, but it was a test of ability.  I'm totally ok if someone can solo in this game because of superlative skill with a class, especially if it's proctored in game via challenges, hard quest capstones that require you to have your group fight off mobs while you do a visionquest (solo shard?).  It's group content, but you must solo.  

    Some fun solo events that challenge aren't just some pish posh easymode everything is soloable thing, but necessary perhaps to building a legend of a truly great player.  If I see a bard soloing a dragon one day, and it takes him an hour to do it, and the chance of success for a lesser player (not lesser geared player) was 1-2%, I just stand there, crack open a beer and watch.

     

    • 2752 posts
    May 10, 2017 4:13 PM PDT

    Darknstoned said:

    I dont care what you think of my tone

    Simply unless you are in a dungeon or raid you shouldnt need to group.

    Having to kite some mob around to kill it in open world, as what ive seen in the streams there always got 4 on 1 mob which looks like open world in some locations

    I don't generally say this, but this doesn't sound like the game for you. Obviously that is something to work out yourself, but the core of this game is based on social group content, not soloing. 

     

    "From the moment you log in you will notice that the game is more social and has an emphasis on cooperative play. The monsters are often tougher and exploration is more involved. You will need friends in the game and your reputation can either help you progress or hinder it... You will find yourself in group and guild chats as you strategize or even just to pass the time between battles. Pantheon is social, thought-provoking, and the memories from your experiences in Terminus will last a lifetime."

     

    and from the Tenets of the game: 

     

    "A commitment to a style of play that focuses on immersive combat, and engaging group mechanics."

    "A sincere commitment to creating a world where a focus on cooperative play will attract those seeking a challenge."

    "A belief that the greatest sense of accomplishment comes when it is shared - and earned."

     

    or from the game features:

     

    "Immerse yourself in group-focused, intensely social game play using classes that complement each other, encouraging teamwork."

     

    and finally from the FAQ:

     

    1.1 Who is the targeted player (demographic) base for this game, and why?

    While some MMOs have been designed with the goal and desire to appeal to all gamers, all of the time, we at Visionary Realms believe the future of MMOs is all about making more focused games, targeting specific gamers with distinct preferences. Pantheon is first and foremost a deeply social game. Players who desire cooperative play, working together as a team, and the shared experiences that result from playing with other real people to overcome challenges will enjoy Pantheon. Players who want an MMO to be their home and to interact with communities and player-driven economies will find what they are looking for in Pantheon. Why? We feel that, at least recently, the MMO players who enjoy these elements have been orphaned. In fact, the Visionary Realms team feels they are part of this orphaned group. And it doesn’t take a lot of research to find countless articles, blogs, and posts full of players looking for the kind of experience we aim to offer in Pantheon

     


    This post was edited by Iksar at May 10, 2017 4:19 PM PDT
    • 2130 posts
    May 10, 2017 4:26 PM PDT

    Darknstoned said:

    I dont care what you think of my tone

    Simply unless you are in a dungeon or raid you shouldnt need to group.

    Having to kite some mob around to kill it in open world, as what ive seen in the streams there always got 4 on 1 mob which looks like open world in some locations

    Did you ever play EQ? If you come from a game like FFXIV where all of the content from 1-60 is soloable outside of dungeons and raids, and you think Pantheon should be like that too, then this isn't the game for you.

    I don't understand how you could even want another game like that when every game on the market already fulfills that.

    • 16 posts
    May 10, 2017 6:31 PM PDT

    He doesn't have to come from FFXIV.. he could have come from Vanguard, which was also billed as a hardcore game for hardcore players and has been described as a predecessor of Pantheon (which ofc makes sense). Most of the overland areas were soloable. Obviously not including the non-instanced caves/dungeons but most of overland VG was didn't require you to run in a group. If you wanted to travel or explore you didn't need to gather everyone just to do it. It was a hell of a lot more risky than a lot of other MMOs but it was still solo content. Or, at least soloable if you were careful.

     

    I for one and hoping for something similar. I love difficult group content. I love overland areas that are too difficult to solo (hell no I ain't going up that path, those bastards kicked my ass) But, I don't want to light the bat signal just so I can go harvesting or make an attempt to get to the next village.  I love the social interaction, but sometimes its just not feasable.

     

    *edit* to be clear, I'm not hopng to be able to clear an entire zone solo. I'm just hoping I can get around, explore (doesn't mean necessarily mean kill), harvest, etc. I fully expect to see mobs I know I need to stay away from.

     

     


    This post was edited by Worth at May 10, 2017 6:52 PM PDT
    • 1714 posts
    May 10, 2017 6:43 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Feyshtey said:

    That's just not true. Not in vanilla, velious or kunark at any rate. And not true even up to PoP except in very very specific highly contested camps. Yes, you might have been able to solo very limited very key white or yellow con mobs at some very narrow level ranges, but it would take you 20+ minutes for one mob and you'd been completed depleted afterward and require a full recovery/rebuff to continue. Possible, technically yes with some huge caveats. Efficient for leveling? Not remotely. 

     

    A skilled enchanter could level even faster than that with charm, even if it was more risky. 

    Certainly not at launch, or anytime soon after. Charm was "broken" for a very long time. I think you're both exaggerating. 

    • 470 posts
    May 10, 2017 6:44 PM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    Feyshtey said:

    Iksar said:

    Personally I hope soloing isn't near as easy/efficient as it was in EQ, especially how easy and good it was for classes like Necro and Mage who could solo even and yellow cons all the way to the level cap with relative ease. 

     

    That's just not true. Not in vanilla, velious or kunark at any rate. And not true even up to PoP except in very very specific highly contested camps. Yes, you might have been able to solo very limited very key white or yellow con mobs at some very narrow level ranges, but it would take you 20+ minutes for one mob and you'd been completed depleted afterward and require a full recovery/rebuff to continue. Possible, technically yes with some huge caveats. Efficient for leveling? Not remotely. 

    I'm sorry Feyshtey, but Certain classes could very easily solo up to max level if they couldn't find a grp.  Mages, Necros, Druids were very good at doing such things, they simply just were.  Necros were excellent at kiting things around much like Druids but druids usually quaded thing to death, and mages pet were just a great assest for mages to get a few nukes off and watch him die.  It also didn't take them like 20 minutes to kill it a druid quading targets took them maybe 3-4 minutes to kill 8 or more, depending on what they are pulling. and necro and mage were fast killers as well.  so like i said them soloing to max level was very effective.

    That above goes back to one thing I've always said, all classes should not be created completely homoginized and equal. Some will excell at soloing and others at grouping. Warriors were not the best soloers in early EQ, but druids, necros and mages had the benefit of skills and pets that allowed them to be better at soloing than most others.

    All that said, when it comes to the necro, I have no idea what you're talking about. lol

    GU Comics link for those interested in some old school EQ style comic strips.

    http://www.gucomics.com/20001025


    This post was edited by Kratuk at May 10, 2017 6:51 PM PDT
    • 9115 posts
    May 10, 2017 7:29 PM PDT

    Darknstoned said:

    So am i getting this right, scrubby mobs in open world not (dungeons or raids) are going to be group content. If this is true all it leads to is alot of ppl having half arse ideas on what there toon is even capable of doing as they don't have to hold there own. Then they get into hard content like raids and dungeons and SUCK, you can sugar coat this **** however you want but its exactly what happens.

    Its why the kiddies cry about DPS meters "who cares if they got the best epuipment you can get" but like a full epuipped DPS is doing less damage than a tank. Then you get stupid tweets like this below.

    This is a tweet from Pantheon

    What, in your opinion, separates the great players from the rest in MMORPGs? #PRF #Communitymatters https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6189/what-makes-them-the-best/view/post_id/112417 …

    The answer is easy, and its not holding hands in a fraking group todo basic crap out of dungeons and raids. Yes you can have a elite mob or a boss within a group of mobs but not every single goddam 1

    /end rant

     

    No, you're not getting it right, we have never said that and have always maintained that you will be able to solo a lot of the open world mobs/trash mobs depending on your class and skill level but for group, raid, dungeon and epic content, you will get your ass handed to you without friends or guildies, as it should be in an MMORPG.

    This is not a single player game, this is a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game people need to remember this before getting upset about not being able to solo, there are many games on the market now if you want to exclusively solo, personally I recommend Skyrim or the Witcher 3 or any number of the more recent MMORPGs where communities and engagement rarely matter. ;)

    Please keep topics like this free from personal attacks and rants in the future, this is not the place to express those views/opinions, for more information on what Pantheon is, please refer to these links:

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/what_is_pantheon/

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/game_tenets/

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/

    And on that note, this thread has certainly gone on longer than necessary and will be closed, please do not create any more threads on this topic until we get into testing and you can see for yourself, firsthand how we have balanced this.


    This post was edited by VR-Mod1 at May 10, 2017 9:20 PM PDT