Just wanted to put this out there,
I play 'dress up' on MMORPG's. And part of that means I collect gear for 'the look' i'm trying to go for. A way for me to collect the things I need is to go back to earlier content and 'steam-roll' through to the boss and solo it to get the rewards. I can't USE the rewards anymore in terms of stats, but I'm just there to collect that awesome golden tiara with the blue glowing stone or black gloves that really define the knuckles etc etc. Should it come to pass that the game will level sync me down, it would make it take longer for me to get said item, and i'm ok with that, but at some point will there not be a time where nobody is doing the dungeon, and I can't get anyone to do the dungeon, and I can't solo the dungeon? At that point there is no access to the gear I want.
I'm sure it will be figured out. And also, Its really not a big deal! I'm the kind of person that if I really want it, I will find a way to PAY people to run a dungeon with me. Hard work will pay off. And the thought of level sync to protect content sounds good to me. Fun thought actually...
I think its worth its own thread but i'm too lazy to do it.
-Todd
tehtawd said:A way for me to collect the things I need is to go back to earlier content and 'steam-roll' through to the boss and solo it to get the rewards.
And thus is born the argument against this very thing. If higher level players can do this, they could, without private instancing, take and control group content intended for lower level people. Perhaps you would have better manners than to hoard content that appropriate level people want to come camp, but I recall this exact problem happening to me in EQ on multiple occaisions. For example, a level 50 druid is camping all named spawns in Permafrost going after the various loot to sell / twink / whatever. Then there we are, in our twenties, hoping for a mammoth hide cloak camp, but it's camped by a solo'er. Your intentions may be sincere, but it leads to issues such as this.
I guess it depends on your perspective though, you may feel the 50 druid has as much right to any manageable content they can muster and if it's taken when you want it for whatever reason, then tough luck.. Or you may feel the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few, and the appropriate level group should be given camps from all high level solo'ers.
Kinda a capitalist VS socialism kinda thing. So of course there will be conflicting opinions on the subject.
Personally, I would never hesitate to give camps up like this, but not everyone employs empathy in this regard.
This runs parallel to the argument against multiboxers who could potentially take and keep content from normal groups. I'm sure many here have experienced 15-box mage teams on the EQ TLPs in Plane of Hate taking the gear drop mobs you'd like to go for (or some such situation).
Do I have any good solutions? No.. Because I'm still not convinced it's even a problem to begin with (it's not like it used to happen to me ALL THE TIME). I have no issues with people solo'ing content if they're able. I used to go back and solo named & loot drops all the time. I just wish there was a way to guarantee the fair appropriation of of said content when potential disparate contestation arises.
I also acknowledge that these types of situations merge into the goal of maintaining social environments and opportunities for different people to meet and experience behaviors and interactions from fellow players in the world, which is something the game's vision as I understand it, doesn't want to hamper.
Riahuf22 said:CanadinaXegony said:Riahuf22 said:Sunmistress said:Riahuf22 said:Sunmistress said:If it's at all like EQ class choice will invariably affect soloability.
In Original EQ soloers even could if skilled, level faster than a group if they were willing to bet the farm and enter high risk scenarios (Chanter/Necro/Druid charming was abit... strong).
I would guess that particular aspect will depend alot on ingenuity and emergent gameplay and be a accidental. Though I hope it's not Faster overall XP rate.
When I watched the stream and saw the Gurkha mobs stomp face my initial thought was "found something to charm", not "O no I'll never be able to solo"
Now will every class be able to solo? I would guess not, but that doesn't mean there will be no soloing.
they could make him uncharmable, plus charming something that can one shot you isnt smart becuase once he loses charm your dead
Not 1 shot, but 1 round,with less then 2s delay between rounds figuring hasted, that's what the average pet could do in Howling stones back in the day.
Wasn't a problem 95% of the time.
Did you see sometihng i didn't in the stream, becuase everytime the wizard even got near an enemy she died, im sure enchanters will be in the same but for the most part, in other words not a smart thing to charm and if you do i hope im not in your grp. just saying of course, simply doesn't sound smart in my book, plus in HS they did not hit that hard and you could last through quite a bit of punishment before getting owned even as an enchanter like last through id say easily 13 max hits., which by the way at least 6 rounds
Wizards are meant to fight AT Range...if you get too close, the mob can reach out and in some cases one shot you. :) I had an argument with another wizard in EQ who thought that you could just walk up to a mob and melee it down with your staff. Unfortunately wizard staffs are SLOW...hit once every 30 seconds or something like that...so nope ..that doesn't work. I try to stay out of arm's reach of mobs...root them, snare them, but don't let them hit or touch you. Caster mob...kill that thing as fast as you can if you are solo. If in a group...allow tank to gain agro..then hit mob with the boom boom, but try not to out damage the group...or again you've stolen agro and you're a dead wizzie. :P One more thing..if someone in the group is able to stun the caster mob...then it can't cast..and is easier to kill.
Cana
Cana i know they are suppose to fight at range, i've played many mmorpg's, my point was that if he charmed something at wrecked the wizard in what looked like 1 hit than that isn't smart in my honest opinion, it juts isn't. yes to no offense to Zy but i believe she was over nuking and it caused her own death, but i have no idea how the wizard is meant to be played it seems like the warrior does okay, until about 20 secs in and than loses aggro to her so it either means that one she got a big hit off the nuke and stole it or maybe a certain spell gets stronger the more she casts it i have no idea but i did saw her what looked to be casting spell over and over again. But he talking about playing an enchanter and seeing that guy in the red armor as the prefect charmed mob due to his high hp, high damage output and i can see that simply not working and almost feel like a mistake waiting to happen especially if you in the middle of the fight on another one of them when it breaks, just seems like a poor choice to do such a thing that could, eventually wipe your grp. Plus, Enchanters are your CCers so ultimately your job is to CC, you dps output is a second thought in my opinion i would much rather have an enchanter that didn't charm mobs like that and live the entire time and manage the pulls accordingly, than have one that charmed mobs like that and made it a content struggle becuase of how unrelable charm is in most games, and possible die due to charm breaking, and possibly wiping the grp.
Okay was thinking about it some more...Note: I have no idea if crits are in the game yet. But in that scenario if you crit..you could draw the mob's attention to you...instead of the melee, tank in the group. Still...to be safe position oneself (Wizard or other nuking caster) outside of the group..at range. temper your nukes..space them out. that way the group keeps the agro. When a mob is starting to wander away because its badly injured..instead of allowing it to path back to its brothers...root it early. Then can be killed and can avoid bringing a train down on your heads. One other thing I noted. IF a mob is rooted (because its an add) don't stand near it...same for mezzed. Stand clear fight the one you're on...I noticed agro from a rooted mob..from one of the participants. Not sure Riahuf if you were saying the wizard charmed something..that comment wasn't clear. Wizards can't charm...unless they're doing something different with wizards in Pantheon. I think the rogue had a stun or a possible mez..wasn't clear to me in the vid. Just to be clear..if you crit..you have no control over that...it happens when it happens.
Lokispawn said:tehtawd said:A way for me to collect the things I need is to go back to earlier content and 'steam-roll' through to the boss and solo it to get the rewards.
And thus is born the argument against this very thing. If higher level players can do this, they could, without private instancing, take and control group content intended for lower level people. Perhaps you would have better manners than to hoard content that appropriate level people want to come camp, but I recall this exact problem happening to me in EQ on multiple occaisions. For example, a level 50 druid is camping all named spawns in Permafrost going after the various loot to sell / twink / whatever. Then there we are, in our twenties, hoping for a mammoth hide cloak camp, but it's camped by a solo'er. Your intentions may be sincere, but it leads to issues such as this.
I guess it depends on your perspective though, you may feel the 50 druid has as much right to any manageable content they can muster and if it's taken when you want it for whatever reason, then tough luck.. Or you may feel the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few, and the appropriate level group should be given camps from all high level solo'ers.
Kinda a capitalist VS socialism kinda thing. So of course there will be conflicting opinions on the subject.
Personally, I would never hesitate to give camps up like this, but not everyone employs empathy in this regard.
This runs parallel to the argument against multiboxers who could potentially take and keep content from normal groups. I'm sure many here have experienced 15-box mage teams on the EQ TLPs in Plane of Hate taking the gear drop mobs you'd like to go for (or some such situation).
Do I have any good solutions? No.. Because I'm still not convinced it's even a problem to begin with (it's not like it used to happen to me ALL THE TIME). I have no issues with people solo'ing content if they're able. I used to go back and solo named & loot drops all the time. I just wish there was a way to guarantee the fair appropriation of of said content when potential disparate contestation arises.
I also acknowledge that these types of situations merge into the goal of maintaining social environments and opportunities for different people to meet and experience behaviors and interactions from fellow players in the world, which is something the game's vision as I understand it, doesn't want to hamper.
Would be nice to see a little courtsey from high levels..when they are camping low level areas. If they are just there for sellable loot, and planning to do this for several days. (seen this...) then the RIGHT thing to do is..if level appropriate folks happen along and have some things to accomplish in that area...that the high level offer to help them out...or just maybe backs off to another part of the zone..til the low levels accomplish what they came for. That is promotion of community and gains you some positive points in peoples' eyes. :) And that kind of rep spreads..just the same as negative rep does. :)
Cana
One other thing I wanted to mention about soloing...and grouping. I am a great believer in soloing to get your skills down pat. But I also believe that you need to adjust those same skills to fit into the group you are part of. Hence when I start out as a newbie character, I usually don't group before level 5...I like to focus on what works for me first, what keeps me alive. Then when I finally do join a group, I can be a contributing member to that group. Level ones inviting me to group won't see a willingness to be chained at the hip with other level ones. :P Learn your skills get good at them...then we can have some fun. ;)
Cana
The community in DAOC considered camps an important thing. There was no rule against pulling mobs from someone else's camp but it was considered quite rude. I gather the feeling in EQ was much the same. Almost always people would be cooperative if they were camping and someone else needed the mobs for a quest - especially if they were high level and the new person or people were at the level of the area. But the operative word is *almost* there are always douches in any game.
Guk was really the only place where I had issues with high levels camping a lower level dungeon. I always go by need or greed. If you're trying to camp the mobs to sell it then they have every right to camp it. If it's something that would improve your character...well then it's a little tricky. But they have the same rights as you. It is what it is. It's an open world. There's always something else to do
CanadinaXegony said:One other thing I wanted to mention about soloing...and grouping. I am a great believer in soloing to get your skills down pat. But I also believe that you need to adjust those same skills to fit into the group you are part of. Hence when I start out as a newbie character, I usually don't group before level 5...I like to focus on what works for me first, what keeps me alive. Then when I finally do join a group, I can be a contributing member to that group. Level ones inviting me to group won't see a willingness to be chained at the hip with other level ones. :P Learn your skills get good at them...then we can have some fun. ;)
Cana
That's also an important reason for me to solo: So I can keep up my skills. As a caster, people would probably look funny at you if you went up to the mobs and started meleeing instead of nuking. But you have those skills (at least in EQ, you had them), and its definitely useful to at least keep your defense/dodge skills maxed. But in my experience, that pretty much only works when soloing.
I have seemed to open the floodgate. Let me try to explain my reason for the post.
I have always soloed in every game. I also have been in many different groups and a few guilds. I enjoy both style play, group and solo. The reason for my post was not to have all solo content, but a fair amount. I know that the last twitch was a tower/dungeon content. Even Helen Keller could see that. But the twitch on 4/28 was outside. And the mobs seemed the same strength.
Soloing is not only about killing and leveling. I have not seen many gathering parties out for mineing and collecting for crafts. This is something usually done solo when your not in guild raids or your friends are not online at the moment. If the content is all group it may take the fun out of gathering, mining and collecting items for a lot of folks. You go mining etc and get attacked by a mob that is designed for group content then kiss your butt goodbye.
I have seen posts here for 5%,10% and 20% solo content. That in my opinion is too low and only invites multiple deaths for explorers. There was a post for 100% group content. What a stupid idea. I am sure all towers,dungeons and big mobs will be group/raid content. That is what it should be and what I would expect to see. But the outside world should have a bunch of solo content as well as some mobs who need groups to take them down. I am not talking about just the starting areas but all outside zones. In eq1 there was a lot to solo and if you were not carefull there were roaming mobs that would eat you alive. That is what I would like to see ingame.
I have played a whole bunch of mmorpg's and some are too easy for even solo players. That is not what I am looking for. EQ1 was the balls for content and there was not an outside zone that I can remember that was not partially soloable. Log in solo a couple hours and log off when you didn't want to invest the time to raid or group.
I have seen people solo in Guk, old seb, Karnors,Etc. these dungeons were not easy to solo so most times they stayed near the entry. But it was done. Not what I am asking or looking for. Just make the world explorable for crafters and explorers.
If all dungeons are on the same plane as Hate,sky etc then you will have a lot of wipes. These were raid content Adds ment almost certain wipes. Making most outside content group would make wipes a certainty for explorers looking for that next level ore or resource.
P.S.
And Kilsin I sincerely apologize for thinking i saw you one-shot killed. It must have been I was so enthralled in the group I didn't see you go down slower. I should have realized you are a God and no sissy mob would dare hit you so hard.
For a while after launch in EQ2 my Illusionist was at the top of the leader boards in XP gain and money gain. I mostly solo'd. It was well worth it to me. Loved the early EQ2 game. I was also the TOP player in one other category: number of deaths. It really was risk vs. reward. Loved every minute of it.
Calmrain said:Sunmistress said:Nimryl said:/rantmode on
If this game turns into one of those solo orientated mmo's.... No offence to you guys but I'm done. I'll quit MMORPGS. This is my personal last hope for a group orientated mmo. If VR doesn't do it.. then I guess that's it. I'd do it myself! but unfortunately I'm no artist. +Keep in mind that we've/I've seen alot of "single player" orientated mmorpgs in the last 8 years or so and I'm absolutely sick these kind of posts. "There must be solo content to succeed."
I'm super defensive when I see posts like this and get very annoyed by them. Gamer "convience" is the biggest bane of my MMORPG life.. Needless to say I find it ironnic that people want to solo in a "online" group game... when there are other games out there that cater a HELL of alot more then a MMORPG. Please for the love of god can we please get a traditional group orientated game! why is all of this always so differcult? I'm like 1mm away from just walking away from this BS mmorpg era and tbh PC gaming as a whole. It's absolute madness.There isn't a like button so +1.
This dude gets it.
+1
Well said my friend.
I +1 this as well.
Isaya said:P.S.
And Kilsin I sincerely apologize for thinking i saw you one-shot killed. It must have been I was so enthralled in the group I didn't see you go down slower. I should have realized you are a God and no sissy mob would dare hit you so hard.
Hahaha, I was messing around but yeah, I wasn't one shot at any stage unless it was me landing 350m down the bottom of the tower after a crazy jump off the edge that may have confused you! :D
CanadinaXegony said:Riahuf22 said:CanadinaXegony said:Riahuf22 said:Sunmistress said:Riahuf22 said:Sunmistress said:If it's at all like EQ class choice will invariably affect soloability.
In Original EQ soloers even could if skilled, level faster than a group if they were willing to bet the farm and enter high risk scenarios (Chanter/Necro/Druid charming was abit... strong).
I would guess that particular aspect will depend alot on ingenuity and emergent gameplay and be a accidental. Though I hope it's not Faster overall XP rate.
When I watched the stream and saw the Gurkha mobs stomp face my initial thought was "found something to charm", not "O no I'll never be able to solo"
Now will every class be able to solo? I would guess not, but that doesn't mean there will be no soloing.
they could make him uncharmable, plus charming something that can one shot you isnt smart becuase once he loses charm your dead
Not 1 shot, but 1 round,with less then 2s delay between rounds figuring hasted, that's what the average pet could do in Howling stones back in the day.
Wasn't a problem 95% of the time.
Did you see sometihng i didn't in the stream, becuase everytime the wizard even got near an enemy she died, im sure enchanters will be in the same but for the most part, in other words not a smart thing to charm and if you do i hope im not in your grp. just saying of course, simply doesn't sound smart in my book, plus in HS they did not hit that hard and you could last through quite a bit of punishment before getting owned even as an enchanter like last through id say easily 13 max hits., which by the way at least 6 rounds
Wizards are meant to fight AT Range...if you get too close, the mob can reach out and in some cases one shot you. :) I had an argument with another wizard in EQ who thought that you could just walk up to a mob and melee it down with your staff. Unfortunately wizard staffs are SLOW...hit once every 30 seconds or something like that...so nope ..that doesn't work. I try to stay out of arm's reach of mobs...root them, snare them, but don't let them hit or touch you. Caster mob...kill that thing as fast as you can if you are solo. If in a group...allow tank to gain agro..then hit mob with the boom boom, but try not to out damage the group...or again you've stolen agro and you're a dead wizzie. :P One more thing..if someone in the group is able to stun the caster mob...then it can't cast..and is easier to kill.
Cana
Cana i know they are suppose to fight at range, i've played many mmorpg's, my point was that if he charmed something at wrecked the wizard in what looked like 1 hit than that isn't smart in my honest opinion, it juts isn't. yes to no offense to Zy but i believe she was over nuking and it caused her own death, but i have no idea how the wizard is meant to be played it seems like the warrior does okay, until about 20 secs in and than loses aggro to her so it either means that one she got a big hit off the nuke and stole it or maybe a certain spell gets stronger the more she casts it i have no idea but i did saw her what looked to be casting spell over and over again. But he talking about playing an enchanter and seeing that guy in the red armor as the prefect charmed mob due to his high hp, high damage output and i can see that simply not working and almost feel like a mistake waiting to happen especially if you in the middle of the fight on another one of them when it breaks, just seems like a poor choice to do such a thing that could, eventually wipe your grp. Plus, Enchanters are your CCers so ultimately your job is to CC, you dps output is a second thought in my opinion i would much rather have an enchanter that didn't charm mobs like that and live the entire time and manage the pulls accordingly, than have one that charmed mobs like that and made it a content struggle becuase of how unrelable charm is in most games, and possible die due to charm breaking, and possibly wiping the grp.
Okay was thinking about it some more...Note: I have no idea if crits are in the game yet. But in that scenario if you crit..you could draw the mob's attention to you...instead of the melee, tank in the group. Still...to be safe position oneself (Wizard or other nuking caster) outside of the group..at range. temper your nukes..space them out. that way the group keeps the agro. When a mob is starting to wander away because its badly injured..instead of allowing it to path back to its brothers...root it early. Then can be killed and can avoid bringing a train down on your heads. One other thing I noted. IF a mob is rooted (because its an add) don't stand near it...same for mezzed. Stand clear fight the one you're on...I noticed agro from a rooted mob..from one of the participants. Not sure Riahuf if you were saying the wizard charmed something..that comment wasn't clear. Wizards can't charm...unless they're doing something different with wizards in Pantheon. I think the rogue had a stun or a possible mez..wasn't clear to me in the vid. Just to be clear..if you crit..you have no control over that...it happens when it happens.
LOL cana you made me smile a little reading this. and i agree with basically all of it, and no i wasnt talking about a wizard charming anything, i was talking to Silvermistress i think his name is when it came to saying he would charm it for group dps and i was merely saying i wouldn't do that becuase of what he did to the wizard on the stream. I think he plans to be an enchanter. Also i don't even know if enchaters can charm yet didn't see it in any streams yet, which all in all isn't a bad thing imho
Nephretiti said:For a while after launch in EQ2 my Illusionist was at the top of the leader boards in XP gain and money gain. I mostly solo'd. It was well worth it to me. Loved the early EQ2 game. I was also the TOP player in one other category: number of deaths. It really was risk vs. reward. Loved every minute of it.
Haha so true; I think the vanilla EQ2 had it right honestly. There was a good amount of solo trash mobs in the open world zones and a few solo mini dungeons (LOVED THESE quickies). The “^” mobs were available and fairly generic… basic loot, slower and more basic xp. I would imagine the noober zones in Pantheon will be the same, as well as the open world areas… now for Mob “nests,” dungeons and villages it’s a whole different ballgame as it should be. I would also imagine Pantheon will not give solo mobs away via the “^,” “^^^,” etc designation.
They have stated solo content will be included but it will (should) be limited, slower and less rewarding. I always like “soloing” while I’m harvesting.
Grimix said: Just wanted state my opinion on higher level players camping and soloing lower level named mobs for sellable loot... that doesn't bother one bit. In my experince with grouping, my parties tended to avoid named mobs because it slowed the rate at which exp was gained. Look back at the stream and notice how many times the team wiped or used gm powers to get their crew to safety....I wouldn't call that a successful exp party. Besides that the ability to solo doesn't bother me, so long as grouping remains primary focus of the game
Oddly enough, those that design and make games, are not usually that good at playing them. If you were to gauge gameplay performance based on what you see in the streams so far that would be a mistake.
Good game play comes from players that are expert with their classes, and work well together from many hours of practice. If a loosely skilled PUG can power through a supposedly challenging dungeon then you now have a carebear game such as WOW.
People making games actually do not have all that much time to play them.
I've been mostly absent from the forums, so I want to ask a clarifying question. I remember a bit back, the stance was that there would be mobs in the game, period. Not solo mobs, not group mobs, just mobs. The distinction was this:
- There is not content that is specifically designed to be done solo
- There is content that you can solo if you desire to.
This was the EQ way... some classes could do it better than others, and some classes could kill certain types of mobs better than others (clerics killing undead, etc...) - but it wasn't specifically "solo content"
Has that changed?
Wandidar said:I've been mostly absent from the forums, so I want to ask a clarifying question. I remember a bit back, the stance was that there would be mobs in the game, period. Not solo mobs, not group mobs, just mobs. The distinction was this:
- There is not content that is specifically designed to be done solo
- There is content that you can solo if you desire to.
This was the EQ way... some classes could do it better than others, and some classes could kill certain types of mobs better than others (clerics killing undead, etc...) - but it wasn't specifically "solo content"
Has that changed?
I'm sure it has, if you look at the newest stream you see a mob in a dungeon one shot their wizard, pretty sure at even level with him would be almost impossible to solo. Plus, for a long time they said that this game in a group-centric game so most of the mobs are suppose to be grped.
Riahuf22 said:Wandidar said:I've been mostly absent from the forums, so I want to ask a clarifying question. I remember a bit back, the stance was that there would be mobs in the game, period. Not solo mobs, not group mobs, just mobs. The distinction was this:
- There is not content that is specifically designed to be done solo
- There is content that you can solo if you desire to.
This was the EQ way... some classes could do it better than others, and some classes could kill certain types of mobs better than others (clerics killing undead, etc...) - but it wasn't specifically "solo content"
Has that changed?
I'm sure it has, if you look at the newest stream you see a mob in a dungeon one shot their wizard, pretty sure at even level with him would be almost impossible to solo. Plus, for a long time they said that this game in a group-centric game so most of the mobs are suppose to be grped.
I wouldnt say it's changed. I would instead say that the mobs in the dungeons capable of one-shotting a character were not designed to be impossible to solo. Rather, they were designed to prove challenging for even a relatively well equipped and organized group of appropriate level. The latter necessarily makes the former a near-certainty, but it doesnt mean that preventing solo'ing was a criteria in the design of that mob.
That's what Windadar is getting at. Sure, in EQ it was possible to solo a lot of things. But it took quite a bit of exploration to find the mobs that were in the small sweet spot of being high enough level to provide worthwhile xp (usually teetering on the edge between blue and green), but still compelling and challenging for a group that would con them white or higher. Equally true was that while technically a solo class could take down a lot of the mobs in a dungeon it was unlikely that they could do so when there were multiples in a room that were at equal level to themselves. It just wasnt going to happen. If a necro for instance was going to solo a named in a dungeon it invariably meant that they got no xp for most of the mobs in the area, if any, and the boss was still a challenge to knock down. While you might get somethign you could sell, or potentially even a gear upgrade, you werent going to level that way.
Feyshtey said:Riahuf22 said:Wandidar said:I've been mostly absent from the forums, so I want to ask a clarifying question. I remember a bit back, the stance was that there would be mobs in the game, period. Not solo mobs, not group mobs, just mobs. The distinction was this:
- There is not content that is specifically designed to be done solo
- There is content that you can solo if you desire to.
This was the EQ way... some classes could do it better than others, and some classes could kill certain types of mobs better than others (clerics killing undead, etc...) - but it wasn't specifically "solo content"
Has that changed?
I'm sure it has, if you look at the newest stream you see a mob in a dungeon one shot their wizard, pretty sure at even level with him would be almost impossible to solo. Plus, for a long time they said that this game in a group-centric game so most of the mobs are suppose to be grped.
I wouldnt say it's changed. I would instead say that the mobs in the dungeons capable of one-shotting a character were not designed to be impossible to solo. Rather, they were designed to prove challenging for even a relatively well equipped and organized group of appropriate level. The latter necessarily makes the former a near-certainty, but it doesnt mean that preventing solo'ing was a criteria in the design of that mob.
That's what Windadar is getting at. Sure, in EQ it was possible to solo a lot of things. But it took quite a bit of exploration to find the mobs that were in the small sweet spot of being high enough level to provide worthwhile xp (usually teetering on the edge between blue and green), but still compelling and challenging for a group that would con them white or higher. Equally true was that while technically a solo class could take down a lot of the mobs in a dungeon it was unlikely that they could do so when there were multiples in a room that were at equal level to themselves. It just wasnt going to happen. If a necro for instance was going to solo a named in a dungeon it invariably meant that they got no xp for most of the mobs in the area, if any, and the boss was still a challenge to knock down. While you might get somethign you could sell, or potentially even a gear upgrade, you werent going to level that way.
In that zone i saw they basically made it impossible to solo, the first grp was 2 adds if you dont have a way to split them than yor going to have problems, and even if you do split them you have to make sure you dont get him again while soloing the other one which even that single mobs is goingt o give you a run for your money and by what i saw the mana drain away you will go oom way faster than he will hp. So like i said before pretty much impossible.
Riahuf22 said:In that zone i saw they basically made it impossible to solo, the first grp was 2 adds if you dont have a way to split them than yor going to have problems, and even if you do split them you have to make sure you dont get him again while soloing the other one which even that single mobs is goingt o give you a run for your money and by what i saw the mana drain away you will go oom way faster than he will hp. So like i said before pretty much impossible.
No, they did not make it impossible to solo. They made the encounters (mostly) challenging for a group of the same level. The game's design is meant to be group oriented. You can't make the bulk of the game solo'able by someone of near-equal level to the mobs, and make it challenging for a group of near-equal level to the mobs. They are mutually exclusive.
Yes, making it challenging for the group does make it hard or impossible to solo. But the design goal is not "no solo". The design goal is "challenging for a group". It may seem like this is splitting hairs, but it's actually an important distinction.
And this is pretty much exactly how EQ was built too. Very few were solo'ing with any great success on mobs that were equal level to themselves, let alone doing so with multiple-mob encounters of said. And they sure as hell weren't doing dungeons designed for their level. They were however able to tackle any number of single overland mobs that were nearing trivial to them but that still granted xp. And the same streams that you're refering to had many cases of single mobs that the group fought in the run-up to the POI's or dungeons. And even single mobs in the dungeons. Without any first-hand knowlege of the way combat power scales by level, the range at which you can gain xp for lower level mobs, or all the skills any given class has in it's toolbelt, you have no basis to reach a conclusion to say that many of the things seen in the streams arent solo'able. I would agree (and hope) that they are not solo'able at equal level, as that is exactly as it should be.
Hell, I used to solo Karnor's keep in EQ on my Paladin, a class notorious for being aboslutely crap for solo ability, and not a hell of a lot better in groups during Kunark era. I was able to not only solo, but occaisionally solo 2-3 mobs at a time that granted xp by rooting, stunning, using clicky heals, and a little bit of strategic retreat to zone after one mob was dead (read as: running away). No one in their right mind would claim that Karnor's was designed for solo'ing.
Yeah, it's all about creativity combined with skill and some luck. Mostly I wouldn't expect anyone to be soloing level appropriate mobs in dungeons, didn't even really do that much in EQ. Out in the world I am sure there will be plenty of soloing of mobs that are low blue cons. Personally I hope soloing isn't near as easy/efficient as it was in EQ, especially how easy and good it was for classes like Necro and Mage who could solo even and yellow cons all the way to the level cap with relative ease.
It's entirely possible that (without knowin the spells in this game anyway) a class *could* solo in a dungeon, in a three pull maybe they root one and charm another. Have the charmed mob and the third duke it out until one dies, kill the other, then focus on the rooted mob.