Two things I'd like to add: The dwarf needs a larger beard... Har, har, har... More to hold the frothy amber liquid from soaking his tunic, and Did anyone mention the awesome views of the landscape. Can't believe we are seeing such awe inspiring footage this early into developement. My hats off to the dev team and what they have been able to accomplish thus far.
This post is perfect folks. Truly enjoying all the information you all have amassed here. Thank You!
Klumpedge said:Two things I'd like to add: The dwarf needs a larger beard... Har, har, har... More to hold the frothy amber liquid from soaking his tunic, and Did anyone mention the awesome views of the landscape. Can't believe we are seeing such awe inspiring footage this early into developement. My hats off to the dev team and what they have been able to accomplish thus far.
This post is perfect folks. Truly enjoying all the information you all have amassed here. Thank You!
Agreed! :) thanks for reading
Yes, hopefully it will be up on the 11th or 12th. They had problems with the stream so they're editing out the bad parts and stuff. In the meantime, you can check out Cohh's streams at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-VljOeRfis,
Sunmistress said: For those of us that missed the Twitch, is there a YouTube link or a plan to put it on YouTube? I searched but came up a bit empty. That's very possibly just poor searching skills though.
These links are all from Cohh's stream as the VR video has not yet been posted. When the team does post the video it will be up on the official VR YouTube channel. However, in the meantime you if want to watch from the Shaman perspective you can visit the VR Twitch channel and view the VODs.
Martell said:I HATE not having a map. I hated it in EQ. I was so glad when they added them.
However, if you must make it some kind of "immersiveness" argument - how often do you go on a trip out of state without a map - electronic or otherwise? Who in their right mind would take a long journey WITHOUT looking at a f**king map?
Unless the world in which we inhabit has yet to invent paper - maps should be available to look at.
Players are going to make maps. Some of them will make websites (EQAtlas anyone?) Our philosophy is that we're not going to spoil exploration by providing maps. It's up to the player. Don't use maps, or use the maps that others will make and post. No judgement on our part, we're just not going to provide them. Not only that, I'd rather spend the time making more content, game mechanics, etc.
As for a mini-map type radar system, a big part of Pantheon is situational awareness. A radar mini-map eliminates a lot of the need to pay attention, to be vigilant, to be aware of what's going around you, where you friends are, etc. Does this make the game more difficult in a sense? Sure, but Pantheon is all about challenge and difficulty. Plenty of casual MMOs out there.
@Sunmistress
You can also watch the twitch stream on COHH's twitch channel, rather than YouTube.
https://www.twitch.tv/cohhcarnage/v/106324515
If you check Page #1 of this thread:
Sorted by Type:
Bazgrim provided 'key information',
Sorted by Time Stamp:
Dullahan provided a 'topic overview' list,
and I provided a 'key qustions/observations + answers/notes'
NOTE: The COHH stream is from his (Gnome Rogue) perspective (but less glitchy)
NOTE: The VR stream is from the Shaman's perspective (but had technical issues).
Hope that helps.
PS+++++
MAPS:
I (personally) would be happy to start with no map at launch, but with (either at launch or post-launch) have functionality (MS paint) to draw what I see. Perhaps even have a 'screenshot' that resoves into a 16 colour, in-game clip picture into your 'Player journal' so I can annotate it before cropping /clicking to 'convert into map' as a crafted item. It uses ink, 'empty map scroll' and 'cartography kit'. Your mapmaking has increased (23).
QUEST LOGS:
The stream specifically mention (with regards Perception system) at 1 Hour 08 mins in ...
(Q) If you missed/forgot some of the dialogue, is there a way to re-read it?
Anyone who uses the perception system will become a 'keeper' and receive a 'tome of keeping' which contains some key words for the dialogues give. It can be then checked in there later.
So, yes, there is to be some form of Journal.
Klumpedge said:Two things I'd like to add: The dwarf needs a larger beard... Har, har, har... More to hold the frothy amber liquid from soaking his tunic,
Absolutely :)
I add that it came a bit as a shock to me that a Dwarf could be enchanter (unless I was mistaken) .
Why with their big miner's fingers, quick tempered manners and their quaffing skills they would want to train those so undwarven skills and disciplins of an enchanter is a mystery .
As far as maps are concerned I am definitely against minimaps which don't fit in a medieval fantasy based world .
On the other hand I would love a trade skill of a cartographer . Cartographers and geographers were always rare and extremely appreciated scholars during the whole history . Their names both in our world and fantasy worlds are generally remembered at the same level as kings, explorers and conquerors (who often brought a cartographer along with their armies) .
Of course some players will draw their maps anyway (like the already mentionned EQAtlas) . What I would like and I believe that it adds both value and immersion is that players who train a cartography skill are able to create maps in game . The style, scale and accuracy would depend on the cartographer's skill and these maps could be also sold in the game's economy .
I do not believe that a cartographer skill in game would have any detrimental effect on game play, exploring or immersion . On the contrary, players could do f.ex expeditions with the target to map some badly known and uncharted areas what is both fun and rewarding .
I know this has been responded to by many already, but ...
Martell said:"Perception system"- You guys keep touting it as something new and phenomenally dynamic, but it just appears to be either:
1. An invisible exclamation point above an NPC's head that you choose to read or ignore when you come into range.
2. Voiceless text describing an area or situation when you come into range - you know, like any adventure game - ever. Think.. "Zork" old. (Additionally, if you want to see some actually cool examples of this look at what Dungeons & Dragons Online did with it.) What you guys have put forward is kind of sterile and boring.
I am not trying to denegrate here, I am hoping to be proven wrong. Is there something more to this "system"?
Actually you are kinda denigrating things. You have a particular point of view and assume that everyone must agree or they are wrong. The perception system is far more than just the sliver you describe here. Either you're not aware or you've chosen to ignore it.
Martell said:Additionally I don't know why you guys are patting eachother on the back for features like:
1. No minimap
2. No voiceacting
3. No questlog
4. No "conveniences"
This is 2016 - the SECOND someone makes a minimap/questhelper plugin for your game - I will have it installed. I will never understand why anyone would DESIRE a more unpleasant gaming experience.
I am an eagle scout and actually taught many young men how to utilize orienteering, BUT I will happily use GPS the rest of my life if possible.
Again, everything you've posted here is either a choice or false.
1. I dont want a mini-map. I want the situational awareness Brad and others have mentioned to be a big factor in how likely it is for a particular person to succeed. I'd rather think about where the smart place to be standing is in order to give me the greatest possibility of seeing both the actions of the group and things trying to sneak up on the group. It's equally important to me that people build their knowledge of the gameworld and actually look for things in it rather than have nice big markers in a minimap saying "Here's a merchant! Here's a banker!". It's rather ironic that you claim the use of a map (later) as only realistic and then also demand a minimap, which is anything but realistic.
2. This is a financial decision, not a design tenent. If they are more likely to actually publish the game for play without it, I say put it under the axe. If a person can't be put out so much as to be asked to read then they arent likely to enjoy many of the other "inconvenient" aspects of the game anyway. (As a side note, my older son strengthened his reading, typing, and written communications skills quite a bit playing EQ when he was young.)
3. Wrong. They actually said that there would be a tome that retained all the quest dialogue. It wont hand hold you and point you to every quest and give you a glowing path to show you were to complete it. But I LOVE that. I want to have to think and engage, and not just follow mindlessly march toward a marker like a braindead sheep.
4. "Conveniences" is in large part why I havent paid for an MMO in years. I'm so sick and tired of being hand-held, being guided, and watching an endless stream of people doing the exact same thing in exactly the same way to power thru content they barely remember or care to ever revisit. I'm tired of watching people so hand-held that they plow thru everything without ever having to or desiring to communicate with anyone about anything because the game makes it nearly impossible to fail to follow the prescribed path in the name of "convenience". I want to be required to think, and to learn, and to remember for a change. I want player knowledge to actually have meaning again, and weed out the convenience army that is so maddeningly pervasive these days.
On the topic of maps, throughout the history you cite someone had to explore the region that a map existed for. I want the sense that I am that explorer, breaking new ground. I want the illusion that I'm delving into areas that few if any have braved. Yes, I know I'll be seeing all kinds of people in those areas. But the mystery is important to me. Yes, you could use the argument that all I have to do is not use the in-game map. But it's equally easy for me to tell you to go to 3rd party site and use their map. This isnt old-school EQ in the sense that you cant alt-tab out and look at a website, or have a website up on your other monitor (which I bet most of us have at this point). To your point out downloading and installing add-ons that provide you that in-game minimap or map system, add-ons will be blocked in the game. They have said repeatedly that they will attempt to disable any attempts to create add-ons that provide additional utility in-game that the engine itself didnt provide. I applaud them for this.
Alexander said:That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to an in-game ability to sketch maps - something as simple as a paint program would be enough, open to any character. Perhaps particularly well-drawn maps could be copied and sold and become in-game "standards", though no player should be forced by any means to buy and use one. Since we know verticality will be significant in dungeons, perhaps "cartographers" could stack multiple "pages" on top of each other to represent different levels. Players could get creative with that, I'm confident. But I'd prefer nothing more than that - certainly not a self-rotating automap that functions like a Star Trek gadget.
Although I would be fine without any type of map, I really like the idea described above. I always thought in EQ1 that it would of been cool, with some type of limited, rudimentary skills, if I could create my own maps. I mean my main was capable of teleporting to other planes....I think drawing should be pretty easy lol. I definitely have no desire to have detailed maps showing where everything and anything is. But after exploring an area, I think it would be cool if could attempt to create our own maps, maybe have the ability to take notes (note should be limited to the person creating it).
I actually have always wanted to see a cartography skill in an MMORPG and players selling maps that they have made in game using that skill while exploring. And the higher the skill, the more detailed the map. There are a lot of possibilities on how that could work and be fun but not game-breaking for those who choose not to use them.
zippyzee said:I actually have always wanted to see a cartography skill in an MMORPG and players selling maps that they have made in game using that skill while exploring. And the higher the skill, the more detailed the map. There are a lot of possibilities on how that could work and be fun but not game-breaking for those who choose not to use them.
This is exactly what I've been hoping would happen. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
zippyzee said:I actually have always wanted to see a cartography skill in an MMORPG and players selling maps that they have made in game using that skill while exploring. And the higher the skill, the more detailed the map. There are a lot of possibilities on how that could work and be fun but not game-breaking for those who choose not to use them.
Hey! Didn't I say exactly this a few posts ago?? Damn developers stealing my ideas!
antonius said:As for the 4 things mentioned above, my personal feeling are thus:
1. No minimap - Yeah, I could use one in EQ at times, but personally I like not having it. Although, I WOULD like a map based on a mapping skill. The more new and uncharted a zone is, the more your Mapping and Location skill goes up, and as it does, you create your OWN mini map with increasing levels of accuracy, details, markers, coordinates and special POI on it. So, you can access a map button, but it only gives you YOUR map and what you have found in a zone, and maybe as you get more skilled, it adds the /LOC coordinates, and more detailed info about places you have found on the map, etc. Let's be honest, making it so i just have to alt tab to get a map online is stupid, but just handing me a completed one is also stupid. What adventurer would not make their own maps? And, would not those maps get better and better as you got better at the associated skills of map making, like charting your coordinates in the world, drawing more accurate maps to scale, learning more about an area and integrating it into your map, etc? Do it. You have become better at Mapping (101)!.
Very much hoping for a Mac client at launch. My main system is on OS X and it's a multipurpose set up with projects and other things open which means doing a total reboot just to play a game isn't very practical.
zippyzee said:I actually have always wanted to see a cartography skill in an MMORPG and players selling maps that they have made in game using that skill while exploring. And the higher the skill, the more detailed the map. There are a lot of possibilities on how that could work and be fun but not game-breaking for those who choose not to use them.
This. I'm all for normal maps, in-game or an atlas outside, or both. I just don't like any sort of GPS-style system unless it makes sense for the setting (modern-day, higher technology, etc), which is not the case for Terminus. Unless the lore can account for a magic-based GPS system which someone, somehow, managed to construct across the entire world. :P
zippyzee said:I actually have always wanted to see a cartography skill in an MMORPG and players selling maps that they have made in game using that skill while exploring. And the higher the skill, the more detailed the map. There are a lot of possibilities on how that could work and be fun but not game-breaking for those who choose not to use them.
OH PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE! Let this be a thing. It would be so neat!
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2420/maps-of-various-kinds/view/page/1
Lot of good suggestions on Cartography there, if you hadn't seen it yet Zippyzee.
Seems like you guys are getting closer to "shitting" the bed on the death penelty. I dont see why it needs to be so over thought - have a class like a necro that can summon corpses and have an xp hit and your gear stays where you dropped, hell give the mages the ability to summon weapons and armor... You are promoting in game community and "good" citizenship and you still have amazing risk/reward and people will still explore and adventure. I liked what you tried to do with Vanguard and having multiple sets of armor so if you could work that in some how to help on corpse runs that might be something - but that is a second set of gear.. And for the love of all that is holy please NO grave yards. I really appreicated your answer and stance on ingame maps btw, Brad.
Dunkmeister said: Honestly, I think no detailed maps are going to be big hang up for players who haven't played older mmos or those who are just horrible with general sense of direction. Personally, I like the challenge of navigating blind, drawing my own maps, and being able to help others find their way. I think we just have to be quick as a community to make those detailed maps and help those who have trouble without.. some of which are good friends of mine I can't wait to play with.
I think that's exactly the point haha. But I have no doubt that there'll be plenty of obsessive mapmakers out there that will crank out maps faster than you can believe, even before the official launch.
I personally am incredibly excited to venture out into a world where I have literally no idea what's out there and to potentially be the first person to discover something no one (outside of the dev team) has ever seen before. We're like pioneers blazing a trail or populating a new planet. It'll definitely be tough at first but having the privilege of working to lay a foundation for thousands of players to come is amazing.
Ashvaild said:One thing i didn't notice in the stream.... the colored mana system. Still sticking with that? Between colored mana, dangerous environments, changing ai, crafting etc etc it seems a lot to keep track of/learn
A very good point. The only mention of it was that Joppa said it is possible that some traditionally-non-magic classes such as Warrior or Rogue will use different "colors" of mana as a resource to use abilities. That's pretty much all he said about it and I would like a dev to confirm that the colored mana system is in fact still in effect as it was described in the previous stream. Because this stream definitely lacked any sort of show of progress in that area. But I'm not at all worried about the game being too too hard to learn. That's part of the fun :)
Ashvaild said:One thing i didn't notice in the stream.... the colored mana system. Still sticking with that? Between colored mana, dangerous environments, changing ai, crafting etc etc it seems a lot to keep track of/learn
I had the same thought. I posed the question a couple times during the stream but I didn't push the issue. As @Bazgrim mentioned, Joppa briefly mentioned it in regard to another topic but didn't elaborate on any further development.