Dullahan said:
"People need to readjust their expectations. If they expect to have levels and items poured on them as they do in new MMOs, you will be in for a rude awakening.
The two streams we've seen thus far were 2 hours (by design, I'm sure). What they accomplished is probably what you can expect in a normal play session permitted you plan accordingly. If people aren't satisfied with that or with working steadily towards long-term, meaningful goals, they probably won't be satisified playing Pantheon."
And I agree with this. The game tenants tell people what to expect. There are Many Solo, instant gratification, fast leveling, quick 30 min group games on the market. With 2 hours a week to play, you can either set realistic expectations, or, you can play one of those other games.
I don't mean that as a "go away, you don't belong here" type thing/attitude. I mean, set real expectations.
The twitch streams were 2 hours. During the both, no one Leveled up within the 2 hour streams. not at lev 7 or at lev 10. They did get exps. Basically watch the stream, take out 5-30 min that it might take to get a group and travel to them, and that what you should expect. If that is an acceptable expectation, then Pantheon is a great game for you. I think the enchanter got about a half a level and they played for 1 hour and 50 minutes. They did die, but I do not know if they were getting 100% exps resses during the stream or if they were losing exps.
So, basically, what they should do for people that have 1-3 hours a week to play, is Nothing. You get what you get in 1 to 3 hours. Nothing wrong with that. Don't worry. I love low level groups. If I am on my lev 40 Cleric and I am Looking for Group and I see a group of Lev 5's shouting they need 2 more for that group. I will log out and join that lev 5 group with an ALT. I am in No hurry to get max level. I want to enjoy the ride and have fun.
I think where some of we older players come from is that way back then we would spend hours at a time doing nothing - well, not doing nothing but trying to do something and unable to do so. Couldn't find a group nearby or content nearby. Aspects of doing nothing was part of the experience back then because everything was new. And there was always the carrot-on-the-stick if you could find some action - or the illusion of a carrot on a stick if you could find some action. Hey! We were young and foolish. Now we're old and foolish. So we probably won't spend our subscription dollars doing nothing since the carrot-on-a-stick doesn't work with us, anymore (all you young 'uns out there pay attention - this will be you in 17 years, too).
So, I believe Pantheon has as a design the ability to not chase the carrot-on-the-stick by doing nothing or even have an illusion of carrot-on-the-stick doing nothing. Sounds like there will be aspects of the game that can appeal to the crowd that may not want to wait around for a couple hours to get some action. Which might even be adventuring and content worthwhile.
Our subscription dollars will go a long ways to ensure a lively character base, a rich character base, and an ability to supplement (subsidize) the young uns, the hardcore players, those that will get to experience all the content that Pantheon has to offer - all for the same monthly fee. It makes the world rich. it makes the world varied. It makes the world sustainable and enjoyable.
At least, that's what I am envisioning.
Raidan said: There's some related posts to the I don't have as much time argument in the linked thread. Or you can do a search for time and find a lot of related threads. And, it's not meant to be rude, but there's a thread like this that is created every few weeks, and, I agree with Dullahan that it is not the game that needs to change, but player expectations - mine included. http://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1794/open-world-dungeons-persistent-dungeons/view/page/2
Thanks. Obviously they aren't the easiest things to find via search.
Not directed at anyone in particular, but I want add that if anyone read what I've written in this post they would know I'm not a proponent of dumbing the game down. In fact I stated that I'd rather be excluded from the game than have it ruin itself to accommodate me. That being said, I played a LOT of classic EQ and was able to do a lot with two hour sessions so I'm not too worried.
It seems to me that a lot of what people are saying is just conjecture right now. I know that VR had said the game would be enjoyable for those of us with time restrains. I was just interested to know if anyone knew what that might look like and also hear some good ideas. Never tried to imply that the game should bend for more casual players and it doesn't look like many people are. Seems like we're all of the same mind here.
Raive said:NoobieDoo said:
Now let be clear, VG's xp curve was only difficult because post lvl 35 at launch there wasn't any content until later on. The curve actually was pretty moderate leaning to the high side but I thought it was decent. :p
I agree. I had no problem with VGs leveling. But there are some/plenty who do. Comparing VG to a game like WoW and I'm sure some would consider it's leveling painfully slow.
If you plan accordingly and set realistic goals I think there is plenty of content to get done in this game with only a few hours to play. You can craft or farm for money, explore, complete quest and so much more. It's human nature to want to feel some type of progress but if we were just given everything imagine how quickly we would burn out in this game. This game is going to be a world so let's act like it is one ^,^
Also, I think there is plenty of content to do in a few hours in this game it just takes planning. Maybe you can't be a vertical power leveler everyday if you only have a few hours, but you can craft/farm and learn to manipulate the market that way when you eventually get to cap you'll have funds and resources to get pimped equipment^.^ I managed to enjoy my time on ffxi while working full time and going to school and through a combination of maximizing my productivity in my downtime and making things happen when avaliable(I never just put lfg flag up and forgot about it, I actively checked to put a party together) I was able to accomplish my goals in a decent manner.
Amsai said: Wasnt trying to stir the pot with the 2 hour comment. However, just to add my 2 gil to this. I think some of you are using the faulty logic of "all or nothing". So i dont see a problem with 2 hr play time coexisting with an old school philosophy. It depends on how its implemented. And some modern concessions wont make it not old school. Remember that not everyone likes the same things and some people are more hardcore on some issues than others. Like people that want everything as brutal hardcore as possible except anything dealing with economy. Im not making a right or wrong claim. Im saying just dont paint everything so black and white.
Dullahan said:The two streams we've seen thus far were 2 hours (by design, I'm sure). What they accomplished is probably what you can expect in a normal play session permitted you plan accordingly. If people aren't satisfied with that or with working steadily towards long-term, meaningful goals, they probably won't be satisified playing Pantheon.
Honestly I don't want to run people off by stating folks need to adjust their expectations. I honestly believe that a lot of people will come to really appreciate the sense of accomplishment in a game like Pantheon. There is a reason why people so easily play and dispose of new MMOs: there is little meaning or lasting value in what you achieve. Once they play an MMO where that is not the case, people will find it hard to move on to the next casual title.
@Noobie
Good Ill need somone to keep ridiculous hours with! I think its important the game allows for the target time frame. The key words there being allow for it, but I dont think the devs will extend that to making the game too casual either. But it wont effect me personally. Ill be playing an unhealthy amount either way.
Vira said:I couldn't find a thread on this so excuse me if it exists. I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about how Pantheon will make it viable for people to enjoy the game if they don't have a lot of time to play?
These days my windows of play time span about 1-3 hours. I'm sure I'm not alone here. Work, school, family, they all take a bite out of my day. When I was in high school playing classic EQ it seemed like 3 hours was the minimum amount of time needed to get into a group and have some fun in a lot of situations. Had to find a group, in some cases get a port, run to the area, possibly have the group clear the way so you could get to the camp. A lot of times that took an hour by itself. I know that Pantheon will implement LFG tools but I wonder what else could be done without ruining the game? It would be great to be able to enjoy the meat of the game with only an hour and change of play time. Anyone know anything or have ideas?
What would You like to see? Any ideas that you've come up with yourself? I honestly can't think of any right now. Maybe they could have some specific quests to get exps? maybe those could be done in 2-3 hours? I am sure they will add some quests that aren't All epic and of course not a 'kill 10 rats' either.
How do you feel about the progression they made during the last 2 hour video? They did kill lots of mobs outside the dungeon, then made it inside and killed a bit in there?
Would you be happy with that? What kind of other stuff do you like to do in an MMO besides jumping straight into a group and heading to the closest camp?
I don't like to craft myself. Maybe I won't hate it in Pantheon, we'll see. OF course we all know that is always an option. What else do you like to do?
Maybe someone should make a guild called Hour Glass for people who have severe time limits. ;) Maybe people could join that guild and everyone in that guild try to stay within a certain level range and group together via a worked out scheduled time to play.
I would put an alt in that guild. it would be fun. Maybe with all the talk of different server types, why not have a server specifically for people who will level very slow.
Or a server that has level caps that will "unlock" every 90 days. Like EQ did with Progression servers. Cap the server at lev 20 for 90 days. Then cap it at lev 35 for 90 days, etc.
its idea, I never claimed it was a good one ;p
Dullahan said:With the exception of weekends and during the summer (when I wasn't working or taking classes), I only spent 1-3 hours a day playing EQ. I felt like I accomplished plenty. There was always something to work towards, and the fact that it sometimes took me weeks or even months made achieving it all the sweeter.
People need to readjust their expectations. If they expect to have levels and items poured on them as they do in new MMOs, you will be in for a rude awakening.
The two streams we've seen thus far were 2 hours (by design, I'm sure). What they accomplished is probably what you can expect in a normal play session permitted you plan accordingly. If people aren't satisfied with that or with working steadily towards long-term, meaningful goals, they probably won't be satisified playing Pantheon.
@op. I played on the progression servers while working too and I had no problems. Even joined some of the top tier guilds; still had no real problems keeping up. It's about how much effort you put into the game while you're playing.
That said the main problem is Player levels & access to groups with EQ. The progeny system they have will help with that.. as players will "reroll" more; meaning a greater chance players will be available at your level for group. Also if they do implement a LFG tool I highly recommend they put a timer on there; to show looking for more people who has been waiting the longest. <- this would help your chances to gain a group faster.
Personally I want time consuming content.. I don't want it easier or anything like that. I like the raw epic feeling of long-term character progression.. I hope VR stick to their guns.
I have to agree. I might like what i see and what Pantheon has to offer, but if i don`t have the time to invest and don`t want to feel left out then i have to change something with my play style or go play else where, or just deal with the situation knowing i will need a lot longer than others. The game doesn`t need to change anything to fit "the time restrained player" sorry it`s harsh, but that is the truth.
The game tenets are clear. Not ideal for you? Well you are tough out of luck mate! It is this simple. There are plenty of other casual MMO`s out there that suit your needs and restraints. Enough with the What is Pantheon (or any game for that matter) doing for....Questions!
I like alot of others games that are currently in developement or have recently been released. But they aint for me and i accept that. I will not go out and asked them what they will do for me so i can play as well.
If you want to play this game you will have to suck it up and just realize that you yourself might need a way longer time to achieve the same goals as someone without time restraints.
It might be tougher it might take you longer, but with a solid and helpful community a lot can be achieved. It boils down to us the players in the End.
I have never understood the argument that "Were older now, have jobs and families so dont have enough time to play"
I was a father with 3 kids, a wife and a career when I played EQ back in the day and I never once had to neglect any aspect of my life. Millions of people have hobbies that take up HOURS of their day every day and they have families and careers. If YOU dont have time to play then thats because YOU chooose not to allocate the time to the game, and there is nothing wrong with that but dont think for a second that others with families and careers wont choose to dedicate the time to the game. Its all a matter of priorities but in no way shape or form do you have to neglect your life to have a hobby.
everquest is a group experience and i think you should stick with that type of game play. make it so people dont end up to end level in a week. people dont have time to play for a few hours. thats fine. they can do some tradeskilling, or running around to do questing, selling, we dont need to kill the gameplay for that reason.
but also most of what everquest was fun is challenge. i find if we put the right amount of people in a server instead of having everything changed, people will come together easily
if you come up wiht new content you should also make sure there are new people, without that people will be all over the map and nobody will want to do the same thing.
Raive said:Just to make sure folks are on the same page that time != effort....or I atleast hope everyone agrees with that. Time-consuming doesn't equate to being more difficult/more-hardcore
We know that, and that's how you get the twitch game play with boss dances we have today.
A lot of people here are pining for a slower game play with more emphasis on community, grouping, and getting absorbed in the world
Grimix said:Raive said:Just to make sure folks are on the same page that time != effort....or I atleast hope everyone agrees with that. Time-consuming doesn't equate to being more difficult/more-hardcore
We know that, and that's how you get the twitch game play with boss dances we have today.
A lot of people here are pining for a slower game play with more emphasis on community, grouping, and getting absorbed in the world
Those aspects dont have direct effects on how difficult/speed the content gameplay is looking to be. Having content that demands more...."involvement" from players in my eyes also contributes to community building. No lie when I got back into P1999, it quickly dawned on me how far combat has come along. And while there is novelty in the slower pace gameplay, I did feel a bit more "disconnected" in combat mentally. This is not to say twitch is the way to go as I feel like a more polished up VG combat with chaining/vulns/weakness/exploits with a slight sprinkle of EQ2 buff concentration would make it interesting (although different topic)
Yarnila said:I have to agree. I might like what i see and what Pantheon has to offer, but if i don`t have the time to invest and don`t want to feel left out then i have to change something with my play style or go play else where, or just deal with the situation knowing i will need a lot longer than others. The game doesn`t need to change anything to fit "the time restrained player" sorry it`s harsh, but that is the truth.
The game tenets are clear. Not ideal for you? Well you are tough out of luck mate! It is this simple. There are plenty of other casual MMO`s out there that suit your needs and restraints. Enough with the What is Pantheon (or any game for that matter) doing for....Questions!
I like alot of others games that are currently in developement or have recently been released. But they aint for me and i accept that. I will not go out and asked them what they will do for me so i can play as well.
If you want to play this game you will have to suck it up and just realize that you yourself might need a way longer time to achieve the same goals as someone without time restraints.
It might be tougher it might take you longer, but with a solid and helpful community a lot can be achieved. It boils down to us the players in the End.
Calling it like it is! Have a hard time with this one myself. I have a ton of stuff on my plate daily so gaming is not top priority. With that said I still need my "Ox" time. I make time for it. Will that work for everyone? No of course not. Should people be sudo demanding content you can complete in 30 minutes? Hell no! I think VR has a good handle on the direction of the time limits people have. It comes down to self-discipline and you and your priorities. I know that is a bit harsh for some of you out there but suck it up. Pantheon is not for the faint of heart.
Might have to coin that last statement.
Ox
The biggest time wasting is usually looking for a group if you don't already have friends to play with. I'm sure they plan on having tools to help you find a group. I believe they also plan on having tools to help bring players together with similar play times/schedules.
I found that having a regular set of friends to play with every week makes all the difference in the world when it comes to making progress.
My belief is the best way to handle short game sessions is to make sure players can solo a little bit. This can be done by having some open world zones be more sparsley populated and have the mobs be easier. Of course the rewards will be less but that's expected.
Also making sure you can twink in the game is important. In EQ I almost always exclusively soloed with my twinks at low levels and grouped with my mains at higher levels. This allowed me to play an alt when my sessions were shorter and just solo for an hour or whatever time I had.
bigdogchris said:My belief is the best way to handle short game sessions is to make sure players can solo a little bit. This can be done by having some open world zones be more sparsley populated and have the mobs be easier. Of course the rewards will be less but that's expected.
Also making sure you can twink in the game is important. In EQ I almost always exclusively soloed with my twinks at low levels and grouped with my mains at higher levels. This allowed me to play an alt when my sessions were shorter and just solo for an hour or whatever time I had.
I agree that soloing should be emphasized more, although from what I've gathered it is going to be difficult or at least not as effective as group play. The freedom of being able to solo allowed you to manage your play time efficiently, so if you only had a few hours to burn you knew you could count on making decent progress by your own ambitions. I hope they keep that spirit alive in Pantheon.
bigdogchris said: My belief is the best way to handle short game sessions is to make sure players can solo a little bit. This can be done by having some open world zones be more sparsley populated and have the mobs be easier. Of course the rewards will be less but that's expected.Also making sure you can twink in the game is important. In EQ I almost always exclusively soloed with my twinks at low levels and grouped with my mains at higher levels. This allowed me to play an alt when my sessions were shorter and just solo for an hour or whatever time I had.