Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

The first warning bell..

    • 79 posts
    June 10, 2016 12:40 PM PDT

    Aradune said:

    Well, even though I've been posting and interacting with MMO communities for 18 years or so, there are still lessons to be learned.

    First, after serious thought and discussion, I'm not going to stop putting out our ideas even if some people might extrapolate in the wrong direction, or resort to alarmism or hyperbole.  You guys pay to be able to post here and interact with us, to be part of the development process, and we take that seriously (and this relationship will actually become more crucial not less as we get farther along in development).  I don't want to just post quick, glib, or inane comments here and there -- I want to be able to bring serious and often detailed ideas to you all.  I also don't want to just 'preach to the chior' and avoid potentially volatile topics.  In fact, I do want to stir up the pot... within reason, of course.

    So I need to be clearer about things.  Clearer that these ideas are not final or set in stone.  Clearer in my descriptions.  Even provide examples of what I don't mean.  I need to try to think ahead as to what someone in the community might get out of what I've written or what could be taken out of context and try to address possible concerns up front (or, at least, as soon as possible with a reply in the thread).  

    We are determined to both create a game in the spirit of the games we've worked on in the past but to also move the genre forward, to implement ideas we've had for years but have never had the opportunity to implement as well as fairly new ideas.  This could even include ideas from other games where we feel the idea was sound but perhaps the implementation not so hot.

    And we remain commited to bringing these ideas to you, even this early in development, to get your feedback.  

    Oh, and I have a new .gif I will be using:

     

    '

    thanks all,

    -Brad

    I am really glad you are planning to still keep us in the loop no matter what, to me this game means a lot and i want to see it become somthing fun and intresting.

    the gif however has made you in my eyes the most awesome person on the internet for the next 5 min use the fame wisely.

    • 89 posts
    June 10, 2016 12:43 PM PDT

    Aradune said:

    Well, even though I've been posting and interacting with MMO communities for 18 years or so, there are still lessons to be learned.

    First, after serious thought and discussion, I'm not going to stop putting out our ideas even if some people might extrapolate in the wrong direction, or resort to alarmism or hyperbole.  You guys pay to be able to post here and interact with us, to be part of the development process, and we take that seriously (and this relationship will actually become more crucial not less as we get farther along in development).  I don't want to just post quick, glib, or inane comments here and there -- I want to be able to bring serious and often detailed ideas to you all.  I also don't want to just 'preach to the chior' and avoid potentially volatile topics.  In fact, I do want to stir up the pot... within reason, of course.

    So I need to be clearer about things.  Clearer that these ideas are not final or set in stone.  Clearer in my descriptions.  Even provide examples of what I don't mean.  I need to try to think ahead as to what someone in the community might get out of what I've written or what could be taken out of context and try to address possible concerns up front (or, at least, as soon as possible with a reply in the thread).  

    We are determined to both create a game in the spirit of the games we've worked on in the past but to also move the genre forward, to implement ideas we've had for years but have never had the opportunity to implement as well as fairly new ideas.  This could even include ideas from other games where we feel the idea was sound but perhaps the implementation not so hot.

    And we remain commited to bringing these ideas to you, even this early in development, to get your feedback.  

    Oh, and I have a new .gif I will be using:

     

    '

    thanks all,

    -Brad

     

     

    Brad,

     

    I think the majority of people here understand exactly how you are trying to approach things and are sincerely grateful. No matter how hard you try you will never please everyone and some will always take things out of context (even if you limit and exclude possibilities in your statements).

     

    Keep up the great work! Maybe your posts should just have water marks for disclaimers rather than a gif, but it’s nice!

     


    This post was edited by Vega at June 10, 2016 12:43 PM PDT
    • 1986 posts
    June 10, 2016 12:44 PM PDT
    That is the best gif ever!!! Nice one man.
    • 1104 posts
    June 10, 2016 12:54 PM PDT

    Aradune said:

    Dullahan said:

    ...

    Agree with everything you said.  Keeping your pet alive will be important.  Ressurecting your fallen persistent pet will be costly.  I hope nothing I've posted would make you think otherwise.

    I very much like the sound of this statement :)

    Aradune said:

    Well, even though I've been posting and interacting with MMO communities for 18 years or so, there are still lessons to be learned.

    First, after serious thought and discussion, I'm not going to stop putting out our ideas even if some people might extrapolate in the wrong direction, or resort to alarmism or hyperbole.  You guys pay to be able to post here and interact with us, to be part of the development process, and we take that seriously (and this relationship will actually become more crucial not less as we get farther along in development).  I don't want to just post quick, glib, or inane comments here and there -- I want to be able to bring serious and often detailed ideas to you all.  I also don't want to just 'preach to the chior' and avoid potentially volatile topics.  In fact, I do want to stir up the pot... within reason, of course.

    So I need to be clearer about things.  Clearer that these ideas are not final or set in stone.  Clearer in my descriptions.  Even provide examples of what I don't mean.  I need to try to think ahead as to what someone in the community might get out of what I've written or what could be taken out of context and try to address possible concerns up front (or, at least, as soon as possible with a reply in the thread).  

    We are determined to both create a game in the spirit of the games we've worked on in the past but to also move the genre forward, to implement ideas we've had for years but have never had the opportunity to implement as well as fairly new ideas.  This could even include ideas from other games where we feel the idea was sound but perhaps the implementation not so hot.

    And we remain commited to bringing these ideas to you, even this early in development, to get your feedback.  

    Oh, and I have a new .gif I will be using:

     

    '

    thanks all,

    -Brad

    This post is very much appreciated!

    I've previously stated that my opinion on what you and the dev team intend to do on this subject will be held until there in more information to go on, but I am sure whatever you all decide will fit into the game and what the player base ultimately desires (whether we know it or not :P)

    But I will say one more time, I do hope you will include vanity pets, perhaps something that can have its visuals toggled off for people whom do not wish to see them, but included for those of us who love to collect these things (make them rare, and hard to get, nothing devalues vanity pets more than having an absurd abundance of them and making the vast majority very easy to obtain!)


    This post was edited by Rachael at June 10, 2016 1:02 PM PDT
    • 607 posts
    June 10, 2016 1:06 PM PDT

    Rachael said:

    This post is very much appreciated!

    I've previously stated that my opinion on what you and the dev team intend to do on this subject will be held until there in more information to go on, but I am sure whatever you all decide will fit into the game and what the player base ultimately desires (whether we know it or not :P)

    But I will say one more time, I do hope you will include vanity pets, perhaps something that can have its visuals toggled off for people whom do not wish to see them, but included for those of us who love to collect these things (make them rare, and hard to get, nothing devalues vanity pets more than having an absurd abundance of them and making the vast majority very easy to obtain!)

    We will have vanity pets (they've actually been part of the pledge rewards from the very beginning).  I did post that I prefer to try to make things matter more, whether it be pets or weather or whatever.  But I shouldn't discount that there are fans of vanity/cosmetic pets and such.  I think what Dullahan brought up earlier, /hidepets or some such, maybe with some options, is a good middle ground approach/compromise.


    This post was edited by Aradune at June 10, 2016 1:06 PM PDT
    • 1535 posts
    June 10, 2016 1:22 PM PDT

    Aradune said:

    Rachael said:

    This post is very much appreciated!

    I've previously stated that my opinion on what you and the dev team intend to do on this subject will be held until there in more information to go on, but I am sure whatever you all decide will fit into the game and what the player base ultimately desires (whether we know it or not :P)

    But I will say one more time, I do hope you will include vanity pets, perhaps something that can have its visuals toggled off for people whom do not wish to see them, but included for those of us who love to collect these things (make them rare, and hard to get, nothing devalues vanity pets more than having an absurd abundance of them and making the vast majority very easy to obtain!)

    We will have vanity pets (they've actually been part of the pledge rewards from the very beginning).  I did post that I prefer to try to make things matter more, whether it be pets or weather or whatever.  But I shouldn't discount that there are fans of vanity/cosmetic pets and such.  I think what Dullahan brought up earlier, /hidepets or some such, maybe with some options, is a good middle ground approach/compromise.

    I agree. I'm also a fan of collecting things and going with that middle ground route will please both sides of the argument. If it were down to me I'd have lots of stuff to collect not just pets but maybe things like books containing important aspects of the in-game lore and things like that as well. Plus also crafting receipes as well. That would be pretty awesome.

    But bringing it back to subject of the discussion yeah having vanity pets that are hard to find or hard to obtain in some other way would be perfect for me.

    • 1322 posts
    June 10, 2016 2:22 PM PDT

    Brad, your gif offends me. I think you've failed to consider my emotions and I'd like to propose that you create a safe space where you will not introduce any ideas or images that are harmful to my world view. 

     

     

    ....Who am I kidding? The sig is awesome.

    • 607 posts
    June 10, 2016 3:13 PM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    Brad, your gif offends me. I think you've failed to consider my emotions and I'd like to propose that you create a safe space where you will not introduce any ideas or images that are harmful to my world view. 

     

     

    ....Who am I kidding? The sig is awesome.

    lol!!!


    This post was edited by Aradune at June 10, 2016 3:13 PM PDT
    • 113 posts
    June 10, 2016 4:02 PM PDT

    Aradune said:

     

     

    '

    thanks all,

    -Brad

     

    gif not hardcore enough, should be flashing at LEAST 3x faster than it is

     

     

    :D

    • 374 posts
    June 10, 2016 4:35 PM PDT

    Aradune said:

    Well, even though I've been posting and interacting with MMO communities for 18 years or so, there are still lessons to be learned.

    First, after serious thought and discussion, I'm not going to stop putting out our ideas even if some people might extrapolate in the wrong direction, or resort to alarmism or hyperbole.  You guys pay to be able to post here and interact with us, to be part of the development process, and we take that seriously (and this relationship will actually become more crucial not less as we get farther along in development).  I don't want to just post quick, glib, or inane comments here and there -- I want to be able to bring serious and often detailed ideas to you all.  I also don't want to just 'preach to the chior' and avoid potentially volatile topics.  In fact, I do want to stir up the pot... within reason, of course.

    So I need to be clearer about things.  Clearer that these ideas are not final or set in stone.  Clearer in my descriptions.  Even provide examples of what I don't mean.  I need to try to think ahead as to what someone in the community might get out of what I've written or what could be taken out of context and try to address possible concerns up front (or, at least, as soon as possible with a reply in the thread).  

    We are determined to both create a game in the spirit of the games we've worked on in the past but to also move the genre forward, to implement ideas we've had for years but have never had the opportunity to implement as well as fairly new ideas.  This could even include ideas from other games where we feel the idea was sound but perhaps the implementation not so hot.

    And we remain commited to bringing these ideas to you, even this early in development, to get your feedback.  

    Oh, and I have a new .gif I will be using:

     

    '

    thanks all,

    -Brad

    That is Awesome . That flashing Sign should be put in a closet someplace in a dark castle in the game so when we discover it we can laugh our asses off. 


    This post was edited by Skycaster at June 10, 2016 4:39 PM PDT
    • 273 posts
    June 10, 2016 4:36 PM PDT

    cosmetic mini aradune pets. Just like that avatar. 

    • 374 posts
    June 10, 2016 4:38 PM PDT

    Convo said:

    cosmetic mini aradune pets. Just like that avatar. 

    Ok, now that is a great Idea. But that could be the vanity pet for pledging.

    • 273 posts
    June 10, 2016 4:43 PM PDT

    It would rock

    • Moderator
    • 9339 posts
    June 10, 2016 6:06 PM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    Brad, your gif offends me. I think you've failed to consider my emotions and I'd like to propose that you create a safe space where you will not introduce any ideas or images that are harmful to my world view. 

     

     

    ....Who am I kidding? The sig is awesome.

    Hahaha! Love it man :)

    • 157 posts
    June 11, 2016 2:46 AM PDT

    Aradune said:

    1. Cleric -- maybe, but I don't see a strong reason here.

    2. Crusader -- Crusaders/Paladins have a long history of being able to summon (e.g. not have to buy) a faithful steed.

    3. Warrior -- don't see this one making a lot of sense, although the squire idea people brought up was interesting.

    4. Dire Lord -- Necros have pets -- necro/warrior hybirds should have pets, yes?

    5. Ranger -- this may be 'newer', but I think having a hound or other canine companion to help you hunt and forage is pretty strong.

    6. Rogue -- Don't really see this.

    7. Monk -- the same -- don't really see this.

    8. Summoner -- Obviously yes.

    9. Enchanter -- Pretty traditional

    10. Wizard -- Pretty traditional

    11. Druid -- very traditional

    12. Shaman -- very traditional

    (I know, not set in stone, but) I like the list above. At first I also got fooled into thinking that rag, tag and bobtail were followed with an entourage of pets of some kind. I appreciate the clarification and in hindsight felt a bit stupid because "This is Pantheon!!![TM]" and not some asia grinder and I/we should have known better than to expect the worst. I try to stop here to not sound again like the crazy fangirl I am for this game. *Backs slowly out of thread*

    • 409 posts
    June 11, 2016 4:38 AM PDT

    After reading through this post again. I think VR could have been alittle bit more professional in their responses.. as they may have now lost a customer over a mistake on bothside. Think of it from Aenra's perspective.. a senior dev has put the spotlight on him/her.. due a semi-mistake on both sides (both mistakes cancel each other out in my opinion). If that was me; I might leave the game and be slightly upset by.. which when you think about it.. over something like this? it really isnt worth it. It really isn't worth leaving an epic game over something like this... especially if the game might be a game that you'll enjoy and play for a very long time.

    I don't judge Aenra or VR. It was a concern on Aenra's behalf due to unspecific information.. and because they cared for the game.. they wanted to highlight it to others.. (hence the "alarmist" title, which really was a _underlined concern_). Were all different, we all think in different ways. It's like holding up those psycological cards.. we all interpret information differently.


    Elephant? Demon? Bat? Fox Cubs? etc

    My point is.. Aenra you shouldn't leave over this.. if you're considering it. Not worth it.


    This post was edited by Nimryl at June 11, 2016 4:44 AM PDT
    • 1322 posts
    June 11, 2016 4:48 AM PDT

    If someone is going to pack up and leave a pre-alpha game community over one forum thread and a handful of posts that at worst lacked clarity, then frankly so be it. If their skin is that thin, or they are that unwilling to bend from their expectations at all then this day would eventually come no matter how carefully you handled yourself. The alternative would be to never say anything and never provide any information. 

    In the picture I see two people swinging on a bell ;) 

     

    • 43 posts
    June 11, 2016 5:14 AM PDT
    The picture is obviously a demon.

    I can understand someone getting worried about the first unclear VR posts regarding pets. I was concerned myself.

    Now, I greatly appreciate Brad's answers and the fact he is going to keep on sharing information and listening to our feedback about the game!
    • 409 posts
    June 11, 2016 5:28 AM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    If someone is going to pack up and leave a pre-alpha game community over one forum thread and a handful of posts that at worst lacked clarity, then frankly so be it.

    Ooo harsh. Especially when it was a neutral outcome really. Where's you're community spirit? :)

    • 298 posts
    June 11, 2016 5:31 AM PDT

    • 1322 posts
    June 11, 2016 8:01 AM PDT

    @Nimryl Being a good community member does not mean i have to tollerate all behavior, or forgive it. Stamping your feet and saying "i want it my way or I'm leaving" is not constructive, its not healthy and it does not contribute to an enjoyable community. I wont miss a single person that leaves under such circumstances.

     

    @Pantz .... WTF?


    This post was edited by Feyshtey at June 11, 2016 8:28 AM PDT
    • 409 posts
    June 11, 2016 9:11 AM PDT

    Feyshtey said:
    @Nimryl Being a good community member does not mean i have to tollerate all behavior, or forgive it. Stamping your feet and saying "i want it my way or I'm leaving" is not constructive, its not healthy and it does not contribute to an enjoyable community. I wont miss a single person that leaves under such circumstances.

    I dont think it was an "I want way" situation tbh. It was a concern.

    • 1986 posts
    June 11, 2016 10:23 AM PDT

    Pantz said:

     

    As a FF series fan (well the older ones), even I have no idea what this has to do with the thread. Though its seeming randomness is funny.

    • 320 posts
    June 11, 2016 10:24 AM PDT

    It's Jenova (Death?) from FF7. It's Pantz's answer to the ink blot I assume.

     

    edit: Another angle


    This post was edited by tanwedar at June 11, 2016 10:26 AM PDT
    • 1322 posts
    June 11, 2016 10:41 AM PDT
    Ah! Thank you :)