Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Civility

    • 465 posts
    April 28, 2016 10:32 AM PDT

    So I have noticed a lot more people new and old being active in the forums lately and with that increase in activity the forums seem to be sliding towards toxic threads every time a new thread is started.  We as gamers need to realize a few things about this game.  If the forums start pushing away people do to its toxic attuide this game will be ruined before its even tested.  Second a lot of what is being argued is stuff VRI would like to do at one point or another and instead of just adding input we treat it like the holy grail and argue over a feature before the game has even been tested.

     

    When new features and ideas are talked about we need to keep the thread neat and polite.  By all means State your pros/cons but end it there.  No need to talk down to anyone or think that you are correct because you have been playing MMO for 30 years.  Until we start seeing more of the world it is almost impossible to judge a feature they might add or remove.  Trust the Devs to listen to everyone and find a decent balance.

    • 1986 posts
    April 28, 2016 11:16 AM PDT
    Very well said Kalgore. We could all use a dose of civility.
    • 818 posts
    April 28, 2016 11:38 AM PDT

    Agreed. Also, add an RnF to get some of that tension out. I need a place to tell Amsai that his mother smells of elderberries.

    • 499 posts
    April 28, 2016 1:41 PM PDT

    +1 Kalgore!

     


    This post was edited by Zarriya at April 28, 2016 1:44 PM PDT
    • 3249 posts
    April 28, 2016 8:11 PM PDT

    Civility is a great idea...we are after all,  in this together.  :)

    • 298 posts
    April 28, 2016 8:26 PM PDT

    I would hate to see the forums like they are for some other games where mods are deleting or censoring topics left and right with any sort of controversy. Take it easy so it doesn't have to come to that.

    • 241 posts
    April 28, 2016 8:28 PM PDT

    Couldn't agree more X and Kalgore, seems to be a cyclical cycle people go through

    people I see coming into the forums tend to come in 'hot' expecting a bunch of uber greatness and to particpate and add their ideas (which is awesome!), but then get overly intense for various reasons a) subject has been talked over a ton already (forum tech issue) b) can't blow off steam c) some folks are just toxic and read to much into things, then it just spirals out of control...

    folks just have to realize in these forums, kick back n have a brew... try to listen more to what is being talked about ... use the search feature more!!! (can't stress that enough hehe)

    need more civility for sure!! :) and remember, this is going to take time... I've been here like others for 2 years now, patience folks


    This post was edited by Nuemcy at April 29, 2016 7:57 AM PDT
    • 38 posts
    April 28, 2016 8:54 PM PDT

    I personally prefer to avoid dealing with people that I find ... unpleasant, for lack of a more emphatic term. So luckily we have the option here as well as on the new forums ( and I would assume in game ) to add people to a ignore list. You could always choose it reply and feed the trolls need to cause drama, or you could reach for your ignore button =) The choice is yours. - Inna

    • 184 posts
    April 28, 2016 9:18 PM PDT

    Well said. Salute!

    • Moderator
    • 8831 posts
    April 28, 2016 11:08 PM PDT

    Kalgore said:

    So I have noticed a lot more people new and old being active in the forums lately and with that increase in activity the forums seem to be sliding towards toxic threads every time a new thread is started.  We as gamers need to realize a few things about this game.  If the forums start pushing away people do to its toxic attuide this game will be ruined before its even tested.  Second a lot of what is being argued is stuff VRI would like to do at one point or another and instead of just adding input we treat it like the holy grail and argue over a feature before the game has even been tested.

     

    When new features and ideas are talked about we need to keep the thread neat and polite.  By all means State your pros/cons but end it there.  No need to talk down to anyone or think that you are correct because you have been playing MMO for 30 years.  Until we start seeing more of the world it is almost impossible to judge a feature they might add or remove.  Trust the Devs to listen to everyone and find a decent balance.

    Nicely said Kalgore, thank you :)

    • 66 posts
    April 29, 2016 6:11 PM PDT

    Kalgore said:

    So I have noticed a lot more people new and old being active in the forums lately and with that increase in activity the forums seem to be sliding towards toxic threads every time a new thread is started.  We as gamers need to realize a few things about this game.  If the forums start pushing away people do to its toxic attuide this game will be ruined before its even tested.  Second a lot of what is being argued is stuff VRI would like to do at one point or another and instead of just adding input we treat it like the holy grail and argue over a feature before the game has even been tested.

     

    When new features and ideas are talked about we need to keep the thread neat and polite.  By all means State your pros/cons but end it there.  No need to talk down to anyone or think that you are correct because you have been playing MMO for 30 years.  Until we start seeing more of the world it is almost impossible to judge a feature they might add or remove.  Trust the Devs to listen to everyone and find a decent balance.

    Nice writing work.  There's no sense in getting in to an uproar about someone sculpting a block of clay.  If you've like their previous work, trust in the artist to make someone you'll like again.  If you're not the artist, sometimes it's hard to see the block of clay's inner bannana just waiting to be freed from the rest of the clay. :D

     

    • 295 posts
    April 29, 2016 6:30 PM PDT

    Rainbows and unicorns for all!  Also, lets have instancing, caravans, mentoring, action combat, matchmaking, battleground queues, dungeon finders, respawn points never more than 5 seconds from where you died, no exp loss, no corpse runs, every class with the same abilities, and giant billboards in game peddling us 5 hour energy drinks so we can keep our sanity.

    • 2040 posts
    April 29, 2016 6:42 PM PDT

    Civility is great, but I draw the line when:

    1)  Someone starts a topic when another thread (or threads in quite a few cases here) are still on the first #%&!*(% page.  Yes, these forums have no search function but that doesn't excuse laziness.  Go through the first 10 pages and see if your topic has been discussed before you start a new one.

    2) The poster ignores the other boards which are dedicated to a particular topic and instead posts it in general.

    • Moderator
    • 8831 posts
    April 29, 2016 6:58 PM PDT

    Rallyd said:

    Rainbows and unicorns for all!  Also, lets have instancing, caravans, mentoring, action combat, matchmaking, battleground queues, dungeon finders, respawn points never more than 5 seconds from where you died, no exp loss, no corpse runs, every class with the same abilities, and giant billboards in game peddling us 5 hour energy drinks so we can keep our sanity.

    Or we could let people express their opinions knowing we would never implement many things like that into the game that we are creating in the image of older school games like EQ and VG without losing our minds and trying to forum fight them to death for posting their opinions?

    I seriously laugh at some of these random ideas that are more suited to modern instant gratification games but then moments later see a nasty reply from a community member fighting them bitterly when there was absolutely no chance that it would ever get implemented anyway...very disappointing. I am the one that passes this information on and I only do so with information that is relatable to our game and has majority support so there is no need to worry about the odd post here or there that expresses a different opinion/suggestion.

    Unless it comes from a VR team member, it is just an opinion/suggestion from one person on the internet, there is nothing to fear or fight, the fact that they spoke it aloud doesn't mean it will now be magically implemented and ruin the game for everyone, you have to have a bit of confidence and trust in us, we have a clear vision and goal for Pantheon, we have publicly stated them and display them on our website for all to see so I wouldn't worry about random posts requesting something that goes against our games vision, it is definitely not worth fighting or arguing over. :)

    • Moderator
    • 8831 posts
    April 29, 2016 7:02 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    Civility is great, but I draw the line when:

    1)  Someone starts a topic when another thread (or threads in quite a few cases here) are still on the first #%&!*(% page.  Yes, these forums have no search function but that doesn't excuse laziness.  Go through the first 10 pages and see if your topic has been discussed before you start a new one.

    2) The poster ignores the other boards which are dedicated to a particular topic and instead posts it in general.

    This is very annoying for me also and creates a lot of work for me but it will always be the case unfortunately, the best thing we can do is to politely advise/remind them of the search function or the existence of other threads until we can move to the new forums and have better functionality, even then, we will still see some people who don't care about putting in any effort before posting and such is the life on gaming forums with lots of different people from all walks of life ;)

    • 326 posts
    April 30, 2016 3:55 AM PDT

    Ubi concordia, ibi victoria.

    • 2157 posts
    April 30, 2016 6:02 AM PDT

    I think what constitutes civility is pretty vague. You might say it comes down to common sense, but it doesn't.

    For instance, let's say I think World of Warcraft is a terrible game. I can make a dozen threads talking about how EQ is the second coming of christ, and WoW is literally satan, and how anyone who disagrees with me should go back to WoW. Judging by some of the responses that I see posts like this get, this would honestly constitute civility.

    It honestly seems to me like the content of your position is what matters more than how you can convey it. For instance, I can call someone an idiot and that will be considered uncivil. Alternatively, I could say something like "people who like games like WoW are ADHD kids" in response to someone trying to defend WoW as not being a horrible game in its entirety, and no one really cares.

    I guess my point is that you can actually easily get away with being a huge douchebag just by choosing your wording carefully. Curse words are overt hostility aren't all that's required to breed a toxic environment, and I honestly kind of wish these forums didn't exist because of that. It's impossible to reasonably moderate, and honestly these forums are a cesspool that I regret constantly coming back to. It's less of a cesspool than 4chan simply because of content policies, but it's still very much a cesspool.

    TL;DR: We can all pretend to be paragons of civility but forums in general just can't reasonably be civil.

    • 1535 posts
    April 30, 2016 6:35 AM PDT

    Civility is great and of course I'm all for it. But the problem on these forums is that every time someone suggests something new or something that goes against whatever happened in EQ1 they get flamed. This community comes across as really reactionary and that is a bad thing. Being reactionary is never a good thing. I trust VR to come up with a decent game but all these accusations of being a carebear or wanting an easy mode are ridiculous. Sometimes you can be innovative and still want a hard game.

    I've noticed things getting more toxic as the forums become more active which is one of the reasons I've stopped posting as much. I love the idea of Pantheon and am a fully paid up member of the Pantheon fan club but the communities reaction to new or different ideas is somewhat sickening. If you don't agree with something there is no need to be rude or aggressive you can discuss things in a reasonable manner without resorting to insults (which most of the time make me laugh because they are so absurd). We are all adults after all.

    This whole forum is all about discussion so lets not close off any topics from discussion. Even if you disagree with a subject you shouldn't try and stamp it out. Simply say why you disagree and have a reasoned debate with the person you disagree with.

    • 1202 posts
    April 30, 2016 7:07 AM PDT

    Jamie said:

    Ubi concordia, ibi victoria.

    Si vis ad summum, infimum incipiat.

    • 1202 posts
    April 30, 2016 7:11 AM PDT

    Kalgore said:

    So I have noticed a lot more people new and old being active in the forums lately and with that increase in activity the forums seem to be sliding towards toxic threads every time a new thread is started.  We as gamers need to realize a few things about this game.  If the forums start pushing away people do to its toxic attuide this game will be ruined before its even tested.  Second a lot of what is being argued is stuff VRI would like to do at one point or another and instead of just adding input we treat it like the holy grail and argue over a feature before the game has even been tested.

     

    When new features and ideas are talked about we need to keep the thread neat and polite.  By all means State your pros/cons but end it there.  No need to talk down to anyone or think that you are correct because you have been playing MMO for 30 years.  Until we start seeing more of the world it is almost impossible to judge a feature they might add or remove.  Trust the Devs to listen to everyone and find a decent balance.

     “Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.” 
    ― Henry AdamsThe Education of Henry Adams

     

    “I would like to see anyone, prophet, king or God, convince a thousand cats to do the same thing at the same time.” 
    ― Neil Gaiman

     

    “It's a cruel and random world, but the chaos is all so beautiful.” 
    ― Hiromu Arakawa


    This post was edited by Aich at April 30, 2016 7:13 AM PDT
    • 123 posts
    April 30, 2016 7:18 AM PDT

    I am all for being civil.  Honestly I have typed more than a few replies this week alone (while at work) where I get side tracked by something and when I come back to posting, I end up just canceling it because of some of the people here seem to just live to knick-picking the hell out of any post.  

     

    I believe the largest issue we all share, is that we view this game as potentially our last chance at a great game.  This may be the case.  It may not.  For all we know, it could light another fire of inspiration (or corporate greed) for the next batch of mmorpg's created.  But with that in mind, I think alot of our disagreements could be helped with the knowledge that what-is-being-focused on is the original commitments.  Knowing that the foundation is there (the basic recipe that we all want to play), and that the next thing being worked on is a new concept(s) that aren't set in stone.

     

    The creation of an mmorpg requires a specific balance, based on Brad's personal responses to these issues and his history of games, I believe he understands these fundamentals.  But in our defense, this is an industry filled with vaporware, commitments that aren't met, promises not kept, and blatant lying worse than political bs.  How many of us were present for EQ Next and their original promises?  TEASING, HINTING, at making a game that was going to honor EQ... That rug got yanked out from under us very fast.

     

    I wonder if polls might help the issues some?  If people can see where the majority stands... they might feel more/less inclined to be vocal about their opinions.  I know at least with the previous Like options, I was able to give a thumb up to the opinions I agreed with, and I didn't feel a need to try and echo my thoughts just to make sure it's heard.

    • 1690 posts
    April 30, 2016 8:08 AM PDT

    De-railing thread from my own random associations: *ahem*

    As there was a GM created, limited/distribution/use item called http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=3615.

    I request a "Vial of Vitriol" be created- when the time comes of course- non tradeable, with awesome effect and only awarded with the hidden effect that once used, the perosn becomes "soul-stamped" in the other way.

    • 80 posts
    April 30, 2016 9:26 AM PDT

    Kilsin said:we have a clear vision and goal for Pantheon, we have publicly stated them and display them on our website for all to see so I wouldn't worry about random posts requesting something that goes against our games vision, it is definitely not worth fighting or arguing over. :)

    You heard it here, folks! The Vision (tm) is back! /thunderousapplause :)

     

    • 80 posts
    April 30, 2016 9:31 AM PDT

    Vandraad said:Someone starts a topic when another thread (or threads in quite a few cases here) are still on the first #%&!*(% page.  Yes, these forums have no search function but that doesn't excuse laziness.  Go through the first 10 pages and see if your topic has been discussed before you start a new one.

    Oh, but there is a search function. You just have to go to Google to use it (been guilty, myself, of neglecting to use it). For example, search Google for the following:

    [url=https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=caravans+site:www.pantheonmmo.com%2Fcontent%2Fforums/]caravans site:www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums

    (Bah, can't get the clicky link to work right. Copy that line and paste it into a Google search.)

    Consider that my PSA for the day. :)

     


    This post was edited by GeekVerve at April 30, 2016 9:36 AM PDT
    • 123 posts
    April 30, 2016 10:26 AM PDT

    The search function just happens to be on the main Forums page... only  >.>