Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Civility

    • 9115 posts
    April 30, 2016 6:21 PM PDT
    Civil - Meaning
     
    Courteous and polite.

    "They were comparatively civil to their daughter"
     
    It is all about having some respect for each other as you are all here for the same reason, you all share something in common and all want to enjoy the same thing together once the game launches, there is no need to be rude or speak down to someone over an opinion, it is all about forum etiquette and manners, all of these social tools help humans survive and interact with each other.
     
    There are many ways to say something but choosing the most hostile or toxic way says a lot about someones personality, if everyone stopped and took a minute to think before replying to someone else's post I can assure you that there would be much less drama and arguments which it isn't even bad at the moment, it is like 1-2 provokers that flame others and a few passionate members who cannot control themselves jump in and take the bait but it is far from toxic.
     
    Just take a deep breath before posting and pretend someone you love is watching you type over your shoulder, see if it changes the way to reply to others or whether it is worth it at all ;)
    • 9115 posts
    April 30, 2016 6:22 PM PDT

    Lokkan said:

    The search function just happens to be on the main Forums page... only  >.>

     

    Which is the perfect place for it since that is the hub for every single subforums/thread ;)

    If everyone typed keywords from their post into the search function prior to clicking a subforum to create a new post the world would be a happier place! (well my world anyway lol)

    • 311 posts
    April 30, 2016 7:55 PM PDT

     Dang I must be very busy, 6-7 days a week softball practice with my daughter machine pitch for my other daughter and t-ball for my son, plus 5 eight hours a day job = missed reading the forums. My 2 cents game isn't even in pre-alpha testing, we have tenets and pretty sure we will stick too them, throw out your ideas if you want but the game is still being made. Have a Nice Day!!!

    • 643 posts
    April 30, 2016 8:57 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:...

    Or we could let people express their opinions knowing we would never implement many things like that into the game that we are creating in the image of older school games like EQ and VG without losing our minds and trying to forum fight them to death for posting their opinions?

    I seriously laugh at some of these random ideas that are more suited to modern instant gratification games but then moments later see a nasty reply from a community member fighting them bitterly when there was absolutely no chance that it would ever get implemented anyway......

    Understood, but remember - we are on the "outside" and we know that VR has been open in communication and feedback so, for someone like me, when I see a "horrible" idea suggested it may seem preposterous and laughable to you but I immediately think "good God! please don't listen to that idea.....that would be awful....oh no...what if they actually consider that ?!?"

    So, our passionate (admittedly sometimes uncivil) responses seem unecessary but we really don't know they are unecessary.  In fact, if we did, nothing would make us (me?) happier about a controversial suggestion/opinion.

     

     

     

     

     

    • 106 posts
    April 30, 2016 9:05 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Or we could let people express their opinions knowing we would never implement many things like that into the game that we are creating in the image of older school games like EQ and VG without losing our minds and trying to forum fight them to death for posting their opinions?

    I seriously laugh at some of these random ideas that are more suited to modern instant gratification games but then moments later see a nasty reply from a community member fighting them bitterly when there was absolutely no chance that it would ever get implemented anyway...very disappointing. I am the one that passes this information on and I only do so with information that is relatable to our game and has majority support so there is no need to worry about the odd post here or there that expresses a different opinion/suggestion.

     

    Like a warm blanket fresh out of the dryer.  The continued response by the devs regarding certain topics in here have me assured I'm in the right place.


    This post was edited by FierinaFuryfist at April 30, 2016 9:06 PM PDT
    • 1714 posts
    April 30, 2016 9:26 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

     

    I seriously laugh at some of these random ideas that are more suited to modern instant gratification games but then moments later see a nasty reply from a community member fighting them bitterly when there was absolutely no chance that it would ever get implemented anyway...very disappointing. I am the one that passes this information on and I only do so with information that is relatable to our game and has majority support so there is no need to worry about the odd post here or there that expresses a different opinion/suggestion.

    That's really cool to hear.


    This post was edited by Keno Monster at April 30, 2016 9:43 PM PDT
    • 2130 posts
    May 1, 2016 4:17 AM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Civil - Meaning
     
    Courteous and polite.

    "They were comparatively civil to their daughter"
     
    It is all about having some respect for each other as you are all here for the same reason, you all share something in common and all want to enjoy the same thing together once the game launches, there is no need to be rude or speak down to someone over an opinion, it is all about forum etiquette and manners, all of these social tools help humans survive and interact with each other.
     
    There are many ways to say something but choosing the most hostile or toxic way says a lot about someones personality, if everyone stopped and took a minute to think before replying to someone else's post I can assure you that there would be much less drama and arguments which it isn't even bad at the moment, it is like 1-2 provokers that flame others and a few passionate members who cannot control themselves jump in and take the bait but it is far from toxic.
     
    Just take a deep breath before posting and pretend someone you love is watching you type over your shoulder, see if it changes the way to reply to others or whether it is worth it at all ;)

    I think you're an awesome person, but not a very good moderator.

    You've conveniently sidestepped the fact that quoting definitions is not only condescending, but kind of silly as it completely ignores context. What it boils down to is that you can be as much of an ass as you like here as long as you zealously defend "The Vision", and anyone who wants to swim upstream and actually think critically is called out as being toxic because everyone here immediately gets offended as soon as someone disagrees with them.

    Literally yesterday, I had someone tell me I was toxic because I told them that their critique of a specific game feature wasn't specific enough to actually explain what is wrong with it. How the **** is that toxic? How is that uncivil?

    How are we, the players, supposed to voice our opinion for the betterment of our game if we can't disagree about something without getting called toxic, and being railed against due to the overwhelming majority opinion? This forum is a safe space.


    This post was edited by Liav at May 1, 2016 4:19 AM PDT
    • 9115 posts
    May 1, 2016 6:02 AM PDT

    Liav said:

    Kilsin said:

    Civil - Meaning
     
    Courteous and polite.

    "They were comparatively civil to their daughter"
     
    It is all about having some respect for each other as you are all here for the same reason, you all share something in common and all want to enjoy the same thing together once the game launches, there is no need to be rude or speak down to someone over an opinion, it is all about forum etiquette and manners, all of these social tools help humans survive and interact with each other.
     
    There are many ways to say something but choosing the most hostile or toxic way says a lot about someones personality, if everyone stopped and took a minute to think before replying to someone else's post I can assure you that there would be much less drama and arguments which it isn't even bad at the moment, it is like 1-2 provokers that flame others and a few passionate members who cannot control themselves jump in and take the bait but it is far from toxic.
     
    Just take a deep breath before posting and pretend someone you love is watching you type over your shoulder, see if it changes the way to reply to others or whether it is worth it at all ;)

    I think you're an awesome person, but not a very good moderator.

    You've conveniently sidestepped the fact that quoting definitions is not only condescending, but kind of silly as it completely ignores context. What it boils down to is that you can be as much of an ass as you like here as long as you zealously defend "The Vision", and anyone who wants to swim upstream and actually think critically is called out as being toxic because everyone here immediately gets offended as soon as someone disagrees with them.

    Literally yesterday, I had someone tell me I was toxic because I told them that their critique of a specific game feature wasn't specific enough to actually explain what is wrong with it. How the **** is that toxic? How is that uncivil?

    How are we, the players, supposed to voice our opinion for the betterment of our game if we can't disagree about something without getting called toxic, and being railed against due to the overwhelming majority opinion? This forum is a safe space.

    These forums are our place of business, we have investors view them, potential supporters, games media, peers, potential employees, and staff not to mention our community, so reminding everyone of the definition of civil I do not see as condescending, it certainly isn't meant in that regard, it is just clarifying for others who may misuse the word or not fully understand its meaning.

    The context borderlines personal attacks in many cases, though, it is not necessary to debate or refute someone's claim/opinion with a hostile reply, civility goes a long way and will always get a better response from someone than a pointed hostile reply, which makes people recoil and hesitant to reply or cooperate, it is just human nature. I think the toxic remark was based on numerous replies that you have posted prior to that one as you have earned a reputation for being very blunt and it can rub people the wrong way, I used to have a very similar style coming from a prior career enforcing legislation, laws and policies/procedures but it isn't always black and white and being blunt or abrasive isn't a socially excepted way to reply to someone, especially within a forum with a large mature community, people take offence and will reply to you in a similar tone which sets a fairly dark and unfriendly mood for everyone reading here.

    You can easily voice your opinion, it just doesn't have to always be in an abrasive or hostile manner, you can quite easily debate someone on a subject without name calling, belittling, baiting them into an argument or rejecting their opinion and arguing that yours is better.

    I am very lenient on these forums, I believe in free speech and not restricting or silencing anyone's voice but when a voice causes a ripple of negativity throughout the forums and the community, I need to step in, this isn't a safe place by any means but it also isn't a place to run wild and cause disruption or argue over opinions and suggestions, most of the back and forth arguments are over personal opinions which have no information to go on other than their imagination and what they would like to see implemented and that isn't a good basis for any argument let alone between multiple people that snowballs into following each other around subforums picking apart everything they say.

    This isn't all directed at you either, as I am sure you are aware but it is a reoccurring theme lately from a small minority and I would like it to stop otherwise further action will be taken, as again, this is our place of business and civility on these forums are more important to us than a few people who are intent on stirring the pot and inciting unrest within the community, we will remove those people to protect our community and place of business.

    I am a very fair and patient person, I appreciate critical thinking, voices of reason and constructive criticism but I won't tolerate continued and unnecessary disruptions when it affects a lot of people whom otherwise are civil and mature contributors to these forums, no matter who it is, so please by all means share your opinions, thoughts and ideas but refrain from overly hostile replies and petty arguments as they will be deemed anti-social and inciting unrest, which will require further action to be taken and this is a general statement for everyone to read, it isn't specifically targeted at any one individual.

    • 133 posts
    May 1, 2016 7:44 AM PDT

    That is a powerful post and an important reminder for all of us, Kilsin. Thank you. You rock!

    • 1778 posts
    May 1, 2016 8:31 AM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Liav said:

    Kilsin said:

    Civil - Meaning
     
    Courteous and polite.

    "They were comparatively civil to their daughter"
     
    It is all about having some respect for each other as you are all here for the same reason, you all share something in common and all want to enjoy the same thing together once the game launches, there is no need to be rude or speak down to someone over an opinion, it is all about forum etiquette and manners, all of these social tools help humans survive and interact with each other.
     
    There are many ways to say something but choosing the most hostile or toxic way says a lot about someones personality, if everyone stopped and took a minute to think before replying to someone else's post I can assure you that there would be much less drama and arguments which it isn't even bad at the moment, it is like 1-2 provokers that flame others and a few passionate members who cannot control themselves jump in and take the bait but it is far from toxic.
     
    Just take a deep breath before posting and pretend someone you love is watching you type over your shoulder, see if it changes the way to reply to others or whether it is worth it at all ;)

    I think you're an awesome person, but not a very good moderator.

    You've conveniently sidestepped the fact that quoting definitions is not only condescending, but kind of silly as it completely ignores context. What it boils down to is that you can be as much of an ass as you like here as long as you zealously defend "The Vision", and anyone who wants to swim upstream and actually think critically is called out as being toxic because everyone here immediately gets offended as soon as someone disagrees with them.

    Literally yesterday, I had someone tell me I was toxic because I told them that their critique of a specific game feature wasn't specific enough to actually explain what is wrong with it. How the **** is that toxic? How is that uncivil?

    How are we, the players, supposed to voice our opinion for the betterment of our game if we can't disagree about something without getting called toxic, and being railed against due to the overwhelming majority opinion? This forum is a safe space.

    These forums are our place of business, we have investors view them, potential supporters, games media, peers, potential employees, and staff not to mention our community, so reminding everyone of the definition of civil I do not see as condescending, it certainly isn't meant in that regard, it is just clarifying for others who may misuse the word or not fully understand its meaning.

    The context borderlines personal attacks in many cases, though, it is not necessary to debate or refute someone's claim/opinion with a hostile reply, civility goes a long way and will always get a better response from someone than a pointed hostile reply, which makes people recoil and hesitant to reply or cooperate, it is just human nature. I think the toxic remark was based on numerous replies that you have posted prior to that one as you have earned a reputation for being very blunt and it can rub people the wrong way, I used to have a very similar style coming from a prior career enforcing legislation, laws and policies/procedures but it isn't always black and white and being blunt or abrasive isn't a socially excepted way to reply to someone, especially within a forum with a large mature community, people take offence and will reply to you in a similar tone which sets a fairly dark and unfriendly mood for everyone reading here.

    You can easily voice your opinion, it just doesn't have to always be in an abrasive or hostile manner, you can quite easily debate someone on a subject without name calling, belittling, baiting them into an argument or rejecting their opinion and arguing that yours is better.

    I am very lenient on these forums, I believe in free speech and not restricting or silencing anyone's voice but when a voice causes a ripple of negativity throughout the forums and the community, I need to step in, this isn't a safe place by any means but it also isn't a place to run wild and cause disruption or argue over opinions and suggestions, most of the back and forth arguments are over personal opinions which have no information to go on other than their imagination and what they would like to see implemented and that isn't a good basis for any argument let alone between multiple people that snowballs into following each other around subforums picking apart everything they say.

    This isn't all directed at you either, as I am sure you are aware but it is a reoccurring theme lately from a small minority and I would like it to stop otherwise further action will be taken, as again, this is our place of business and civility on these forums are more important to us than a few people who are intent on stirring the pot and inciting unrest within the community, we will remove those people to protect our community and place of business.

    I am a very fair and patient person, I appreciate critical thinking, voices of reason and constructive criticism but I won't tolerate continued and unnecessary disruptions when it affects a lot of people whom otherwise are civil and mature contributors to these forums, no matter who it is, so please by all means share your opinions, thoughts and ideas but refrain from overly hostile replies and petty arguments as they will be deemed anti-social and inciting unrest, which will require further action to be taken and this is a general statement for everyone to read, it isn't specifically targeted at any one individual.

     

    Solid Post Kilsin. Very solid!

    • 668 posts
    May 1, 2016 11:58 AM PDT

    I think of it this way...

    All of you consider your responses being broken down and graphed in pie form.  If you have a HUGE chunk of your pie graph shown as "hostile" or "confrontational" based on your threads, then you really are the bad apple in the barrel.

    People can choose to be any way they want...  That choice comes with different paths in lives that often don't equal the same friends or relationships!

    • 2130 posts
    May 1, 2016 12:09 PM PDT

    Pyye said:

    I think of it this way...

    All of you consider your responses being broken down and graphed in pie form.  If you have a HUGE chunk of your pie graph shown as "hostile" or "confrontational" based on your threads, then you really are the bad apple in the barrel.

    People can choose to be any way they want...  That choice comes with different paths in lives that often don't equal the same friends or relationships!

    Disagree. Some people have really, really low bars for what constitutes hostility. For instance, the fact that in American society, the words "argue" and "argument" have an inherently negative connotation that basically flies in the face of what the word actually means.

    There are a lot of overly sensitive people here who like to scream about toxicity and hostility because they get super defensive at the very essence of disagreement. Either way, I'm getting bored of this discussion.

    • 643 posts
    May 1, 2016 12:13 PM PDT

    Pyye said:

    I think of it this way...

    All of you consider your responses being broken down and graphed in pie form.  If you have a HUGE chunk of your pie graph shown as "hostile" or "confrontational" based on your threads, then you really are the bad apple in the barrel.

    People can choose to be any way they want...  That choice comes with different paths in lives that often don't equal the same friends or relationships!

     

    Did anyone notice that Pyye explained this with a Pie chart ?  :)

     

     

    • 363 posts
    May 1, 2016 12:45 PM PDT

    Good response, Kilsin. I think some folks just get their knickers in a twister when others disagree with them and then BOOM off we go. Good to hear you guys are sticking to your guns and not letting certain ideas sway you from that. Hopefully that will keep some of the purists happy, but I doubt it.

    • 133 posts
    May 1, 2016 1:09 PM PDT

    fazool said:

    Pyye said:

    I think of it this way...

    All of you consider your responses being broken down and graphed in pie form.  If you have a HUGE chunk of your pie graph shown as "hostile" or "confrontational" based on your threads, then you really are the bad apple in the barrel.

    People can choose to be any way they want...  That choice comes with different paths in lives that often don't equal the same friends or relationships!

     

    Did anyone notice that Pyye explained this with a Pie chart ?  :)

     

     

     :D .  

     

    In all seriousness, though, I agree with Pyye's post. Why disrupt and destroy, when we can create and build.

     

    And I agree that pie is good! 


    This post was edited by Zenya at May 1, 2016 1:11 PM PDT
    • 2 posts
    May 1, 2016 1:19 PM PDT

    Civility on forums can be a foriegn concept.  I don't think I've ever seen ANY kind of forums where there isn't some sort of conflict.  For the sake of clarity, conflict isn't necessarily a bad thing, we know it can be inspiring and lead to improvement (it can also demonstrate the character of the poster).  What's really destructive is the type of adverse conflict that devolves a conversation into something meaningless.  For those discussions, we can just choose not to respond, to ignore and just move on.  Commenting or addressing those destructive posts, only seems to add fuel to the fire and perpetuates a bad thing.

    The reality is that it's highly unlikely that most will look at 10 pages of previous posts just to see if their feedback was already mentioned, myself included just FYI.  A simple redirect or short response is all that's needed to notify myself and other similar users as opposed to a terse response that will only seed the types of threads you're speaking of here.

    Just my 2cp.


    This post was edited by Dragonsbane at May 1, 2016 1:24 PM PDT
    • 238 posts
    May 1, 2016 1:26 PM PDT
    Something that will go allong way to stopping fights before they every begin comes down to how Brad and others give us information. I have noticed for a couple weeks now that some small piece of information will slip out and no meat is given at all. This always starts a flame war after about the 3rd page because people are just starting a frenzy of "what if" fears and concerns all from one line Brad might have not even realised would become a hot topic.

    I would say that holding new information back till you can give some real info is key.

    I mean stating that ther might be a veteran server in passing then not saying anything else is 100% going to end in wild guesses and forum fights.
    • 2130 posts
    May 1, 2016 1:32 PM PDT

    Xonth said: Something that will go allong way to stopping fights before they every begin comes down to how Brad and others give us information. I have noticed for a couple weeks now that some small piece of information will slip out and no meat is given at all. This always starts a flame war after about the 3rd page because people are just starting a frenzy of "what if" fears and concerns all from one line Brad might have not even realised would become a hot topic. I would say that holding new information back till you can give some real info is key. I mean stating that ther might be a veteran server in passing then not saying anything else is 100% going to end in wild guesses and forum fights.

    Yeah, I kind of agree. The current template for information release honestly just fosters blind speculation, which inevitably leads to tons of "what if" scenarios and flame wars.

    I've been of the opinion from the start that having these forums open so early was a bad idea. There's hardly anything to discuss except these tiny little tidbits of information, and so all of the discussions invariably go back to the anti-WoW ranting and talking about EQ. I'd say half or more of the content of discussions on these forums isn't even about Pantheon at all, it's about WoW and EQ, with some Vanguard sprinkled in.

    • 18 posts
    May 1, 2016 1:50 PM PDT

    Xonth said: Something that will go allong way to stopping fights before they every begin comes down to how Brad and others give us information. I have noticed for a couple weeks now that some small piece of information will slip out and no meat is given at all. This always starts a flame war after about the 3rd page because people are just starting a frenzy of "what if" fears and concerns all from one line Brad might have not even realised would become a hot topic. I would say that holding new information back till you can give some real info is key. I mean stating that ther might be a veteran server in passing then not saying anything else is 100% going to end in wild guesses and forum fights.

    +

    • 839 posts
    May 1, 2016 3:26 PM PDT

    I hope this resonates with people on here, especially those who tend to be more worried about agressively arguing the specifics of a word people have used to describe a subject rather than the topic that is being discussed and then continuing to spend multipe pages of a thread doing so, its pretty embarrassing being involved in or even just reading through these sorts of conversations sometimes.

    I came here to discuss and debate ideas with people who share an interest. Good conversations keep breaking down to feed someones ego or to try to diminish someone elses, either way, lets just try to ignore the comments that are designed to frustrate us but also importantly encourage the ones that add to and make the conversation better, even if their idea doesnt support yours.

    I would tend to disagree with the posts directly above me regarding the way the Devs release information, I think we need to be in control of ourselves and the way we act not ask someone else to regulate everything for us in order to be able to remain calm and reasonable even when others are not. And when you find something you dont like that you have something to say about, get up and debate your idea with gusto, just refrain from attacking peope, instead provide reasoning and educate others on your perspective.

    The Devs are workshopping ideas with themselves and the public and so they should, they are still interested in peoples responses and we should be thankful for that.  Every piece of information they release does not have to match a specific criteria and it certainly should be open to debate and discussin right here, isnt that one reason why we are here this early on in the piece? To get those little snippets of info and then discuss and work with them, quietly crossing our fingers that somthing we feel strongly about may influence them in a way. 

    • 2130 posts
    May 1, 2016 3:44 PM PDT

    Hokanu said:

    I would tend to disagree with the posts directly above me regarding the way the Devs release information, I think we need to be in control of ourselves and the way we act not ask someone else to regulate everything for us in order to be able to remain calm and reasonable even when others are not. And when you find something you dont like that you have something to say about, get up and debate your idea with gusto, just refrain from attacking peope, instead provide reasoning and educate others on your perspective.

    The Devs are workshopping ideas with themselves and the public and so they should, they are still interested in peoples responses and we should be thankful for that.  Every piece of information they release does not have to match a specific criteria and it certainly should be open to debate and discussin right here, isnt that one reason why we are here this early on in the piece? To get those little snippets of info and then discuss and work with them, quietly crossing our fingers that somthing we feel strongly about may influence them in a way. 

    There's the way things "should" be, and there's the way things are.

    The fact is that we are on a largely anonymous form on top of an anonymous monolith known as the internet. As nice as it would be for everyone to get along, it will never happen. As such, measures need to be taken to not add fuel to the pyre.

    It is honestly beyond dispute that a lot of the incredibly vague little posts that the staff members make regarding the game end up being very open to interpretation, which always devolves into people debating about how a speculative thing will screw up the game for them. As much as I wish that wasn't the case, this forum has proven time and time again that every little vague post the VR staff makes ends up spurring unhealthy discussions.

    I would really rather they just not release any information or talk about anything at all on the forums, not unless there's something really substantive. Some information should just be exchanged behind closed doors, especially this early in the development process.

    1. How do you feel about X?
    2. We're running a poll for server names. Click this post to participate!
    3. Here are the alpha dates.

    This is the kind of stuff we need to see, anything else is honestly just fluff. As much as I appreciate a lot of the threads Kilsin makes that reminisce about EQ and features from it, I also feel like those types of threads are really, really echo-y in that anyone who isn't 100% on board with everything EQ did tend to feel really exclusive.

    Maybe I'm just looking into things too hard.

    • 839 posts
    May 1, 2016 6:15 PM PDT

    We will just have to pick and choose what topics we want to discuss and not discuss and if someone decides there is not enough information or meat to make a plausable discussion in their mind, and feels like a particular comment will lead to a flame war they probably should just refrain from entering the conversation with that comment in mind, but should always enter a conversation if they feel like their comment can truly add to the discussion.


    This post was edited by Hokanu at May 1, 2016 6:15 PM PDT
    • 9115 posts
    May 1, 2016 7:11 PM PDT

    Liav said:

    Hokanu said:

    I would tend to disagree with the posts directly above me regarding the way the Devs release information, I think we need to be in control of ourselves and the way we act not ask someone else to regulate everything for us in order to be able to remain calm and reasonable even when others are not. And when you find something you dont like that you have something to say about, get up and debate your idea with gusto, just refrain from attacking peope, instead provide reasoning and educate others on your perspective.

    The Devs are workshopping ideas with themselves and the public and so they should, they are still interested in peoples responses and we should be thankful for that.  Every piece of information they release does not have to match a specific criteria and it certainly should be open to debate and discussin right here, isnt that one reason why we are here this early on in the piece? To get those little snippets of info and then discuss and work with them, quietly crossing our fingers that somthing we feel strongly about may influence them in a way. 

    There's the way things "should" be, and there's the way things are.

    The fact is that we are on a largely anonymous form on top of an anonymous monolith known as the internet. As nice as it would be for everyone to get along, it will never happen. As such, measures need to be taken to not add fuel to the pyre.

    It is honestly beyond dispute that a lot of the incredibly vague little posts that the staff members make regarding the game end up being very open to interpretation, which always devolves into people debating about how a speculative thing will screw up the game for them. As much as I wish that wasn't the case, this forum has proven time and time again that every little vague post the VR staff makes ends up spurring unhealthy discussions.

    I would really rather they just not release any information or talk about anything at all on the forums, not unless there's something really substantive. Some information should just be exchanged behind closed doors, especially this early in the development process.

    1. How do you feel about X?
    2. We're running a poll for server names. Click this post to participate!
    3. Here are the alpha dates.

    This is the kind of stuff we need to see, anything else is honestly just fluff. As much as I appreciate a lot of the threads Kilsin makes that reminisce about EQ and features from it, I also feel like those types of threads are really, really echo-y in that anyone who isn't 100% on board with everything EQ did tend to feel really exclusive.

    Maybe I'm just looking into things too hard.

    We can definitely look at the way we release information but I do think you are looking into it too much, these are development forums and are here to talk about the development process, gather ideas, suggestions, feedback and the majority of the time we are flooded with questions about a certain topic that we are not ready to comment on fully and can only give tidbits to satiate the community, if people then come to their own conclusions and make up their own fears and negative takes on how it could affect them without actually knowing for sure is something that can't really be pinned on us, Hokanu makes a valid point and one I agree with, it is the responsibility of the person to control their thoughts, emotions, and expectations in a reasonable manner, we have provided a solid insight into our thinking and vision by adding links under the "About Pantheon" title at the bottom of the forums explaining "What is Pantheon", "The Pantheon Difference", "Game Features", "Game Tenets" and "FAQs", if people still want to ignore all that information and come to their own conclusion or create hyperbole over minor things or their own unwarranted fears there isn't much we can do.

    I could tell you that the sky is blue and you could walk outside and see grey clouds covering the entire sky, see no blue at all and conclude that I must be lying to cover something up and the world must be ending, and come to this conclusion all without a shred of evidence because it could happen, it is just based on overreactions and fears which are unfounded but it is silly to blame us for those fears or overreactions when the information was requested or misconstrued in the first place.

    I don't post specifically about EQ man, I am a VG Vet (7 years) I only played a year or so of EQ when it was first launched due to real life constraints and then more recently leveled an SK to 32 and a Shaman to 86 with a friend to get back in touch with the game and be able to relate to the community more closely but the majority of my posts are open ended engaging content just to interact with the community until I have game information to release for Pantheon, which will ramp up more when we get into testing and can show more of the game off but until then I try to relate or steer topics towards EQ/VG features/mechanics to save arguments breaking out over newer games which have very little chance of having any of their features/mechanics added to a game like Pantheon as they are just not suited or compatible with our game and/or community, so it is just easier to direct people to games like EQ and VG as a base to see where we are building Pantheon from and also because Brad had a hand in creating them so people are most familiar with them.

    So we can take a look at the way we deliver information but you guys and girls also have to take responsibility for your own behaviours and actions/reactions and meet us half way, this isn't something we can solve alone as we cannot possibly control how people react.

    • 9115 posts
    May 1, 2016 7:12 PM PDT

    Hokanu said:

    We will just have to pick and choose what topics we want to discuss and not discuss and if someone decides there is not enough information or meat to make a plausable discussion in their mind, and feels like a particular comment will lead to a flame war they probably should just refrain from entering the conversation with that comment in mind, but should always enter a conversation if they feel like their comment can truly add to the discussion.

    Wise words Hokanu and a sentiment that I share, thank you :)

    • 126 posts
    May 1, 2016 7:26 PM PDT

    Harrison Bergeron.