I truly don't think you'd have anything to worry about.
Many of us agree that Vanguard was the spiritual successor of EQ. That doesn't make Vanguard EQ2. It doesn't make Vanguard any less ...Vanguard. Vanguard was a game on it's own, that stood on it's own. It drew a particular crowd (a crowd of masochistic nut jobs, granted), and that crowd mostly came FROM Everquest, but that doesn't make Vanguard anything less than what it was. A new game with new lore, new classes, some recycled mechanics and ideas, some fresh.
Pantheon may very well be the spiritual successor to Vanguard, which would, by proxy, make it the spiritual successor to EQ ..but it will still be Pantheon, and unless I'm sitting outside of a city and start getting smacked around by Fippy, I'll never think it's anything other than Pantheon.
And really, come on, this is the MMO crowd. It doesn't matter what they do to the game. You'll always have people wanting this or that mechanic to be like it was in this or that MMO. That's just the way the nerd cookie crumbles.
-Tralyan
Cromulent said:This thread is probably going to get me flamed from everyone who is on this forum but someone has to ask the question.
In every single thread (at least it feels that way) someone always uses the argument "well EverQuest did it that way so should Pantheon" as to why their idea is better than the others. But if the developers only listen to arguments like that what we will end up with is EverQuest with a new graphics engine. Is that what we really want? What about great new ideas that haven't been done before? What about trying ideas out in testing to see if they work? Isn't that what testing is all about?
I for one loved EverQuest. It was my first ever MMO and I played it for over 5 years but I quit because eventually I got bored. I'm sure most of you no longer play EverQuest for various reasons. So if you quit EverQuest why do you want Pantheon to be so much like it? Surely if Pantheon is too much like EverQuest you'll get bored super fast because you've basically played the game already. There won't be any new ideas in the game and you'll find that you'll quit for the very same reasons you quit EverQuest.
So can we please stop shooting down original ideas just because EverQuest didn't do it? I'm sure we all want Pantheon to be a successful game but copying everything that EverQuest did is probably not the way to get there. Yes we all want a hard and challenging game. Yes we all want social interaction to be the primary focus. Yes we want levelling to take time but all of that can be achieved without just copying everything that EverQuest did.
So lets all agree EverQuest was a great game but Pantheon is NOT EverQuest and if you want a game to be like EverQuest why don't you go back and actually play EverQuest? Pantheon is a new game built in a completely different era with new technology and built for computers that can handle much more complex games. I'm excited to see what new ideas the Pantheon developers can bring to the genre. Things that no other MMO has done before. I'm sure you are as well.
Edit:
This whole post can be summarised as follows:
I am just making a plea to the community to try and be a bit more open minded about new ideas.
hi well first off you could compare Pantheon to much worse games but none better that is for sure. It does look a lot like EQ from the characters to the mobs music and a few other things. People will always compare it to EQ most MMO's are. EQ was basically the first and definitely the first of its kind. There are a lot of games out there, and a lot of inspiration, not just in MMO's if playing morrowind gives you an idea heck try it out. You are all artists do not limit your sources of inspiration not everything is a work of art but we wouldn't have any if people limit themselves. Thanks for asking us it is appreciate, but remember we are a very small faction of the MMO community and a very like minded faction so make sure you also get ideas and views from other sources there is a rather large hard core gaming community out there to tap into. EQ had a lot of great ideas and if they make it into Pantheon you won't go wrong but it wasn't perfect there is a reason hard core players left EQ so it wasn't perfect. Part of the reason I stopped was RL others were game issues.
Aradune said:Whew, heavy topic, lots of great posts.
Let me respond by asking a question:
Do you feel VG was a clone of EQ, or a sequel, or a spritual sucessor, or what?
I ask because your answer to that question will probably be similar to how you feel about Pantheon when you play it.
For us, Pantheon is its own game with lots of new features and ideas and we truly feel it will evolve the genre and hopefully in a positive way :)
At the same time, it's being built around core concepts and fundamentals that began back in the days of MUDs, then heavily influenced EQ, VG, and some other games to varying degrees.
I've also posted that ideas I was never able to get into EQ and VG will make their way into Pantheon, either before or after launch.
Also you have people working on the game who worked on EQ and/or VG.
And we've also said that if you enjoyed EQ and VG then you are part of the audience we are targeting.
What does that exactly make Pantheon? Well, ultimately, that will be up to each of you I think.
I feel like Vanguard was a world all its own with some of the best ideas EQ had and some new and interesting ways of doing things. If Pantheon does a similar thing and moves ahead with its own new ideas while bringing back the social aspect, the challenge and fear that is missing in other games today it will be a big winner.
Korocus said:Cromulent said:This thread is probably going to get me flamed from everyone who is on this forum but someone has to ask the question.
In every single thread (at least it feels that way) someone always uses the argument "well EverQuest did it that way so should Pantheon" as to why their idea is better than the others. But if the developers only listen to arguments like that what we will end up with is EverQuest with a new graphics engine. Is that what we really want? What about great new ideas that haven't been done before? What about trying ideas out in testing to see if they work? Isn't that what testing is all about?
I for one loved EverQuest. It was my first ever MMO and I played it for over 5 years but I quit because eventually I got bored. I'm sure most of you no longer play EverQuest for various reasons. So if you quit EverQuest why do you want Pantheon to be so much like it? Surely if Pantheon is too much like EverQuest you'll get bored super fast because you've basically played the game already. There won't be any new ideas in the game and you'll find that you'll quit for the very same reasons you quit EverQuest.
So can we please stop shooting down original ideas just because EverQuest didn't do it? I'm sure we all want Pantheon to be a successful game but copying everything that EverQuest did is probably not the way to get there. Yes we all want a hard and challenging game. Yes we all want social interaction to be the primary focus. Yes we want levelling to take time but all of that can be achieved without just copying everything that EverQuest did.
So lets all agree EverQuest was a great game but Pantheon is NOT EverQuest and if you want a game to be like EverQuest why don't you go back and actually play EverQuest? Pantheon is a new game built in a completely different era with new technology and built for computers that can handle much more complex games. I'm excited to see what new ideas the Pantheon developers can bring to the genre. Things that no other MMO has done before. I'm sure you are as well.
Edit:
This whole post can be summarised as follows:
I am just making a plea to the community to try and be a bit more open minded about new ideas.
hi well first off you could compare Pantheon to much worse games but none better that is for sure. It does look a lot like EQ from the characters to the mobs music and a few other things. People will always compare it to EQ most MMO's are. EQ was basically the first and definitely the first of its kind. There are a lot of games out there, and a lot of inspiration, not just in MMO's if playing morrowind gives you an idea heck try it out. You are all artists do not limit your sources of inspiration not everything is a work of art but we wouldn't have any if people limit themselves. Thanks for asking us it is appreciate, but remember we are a very small faction of the MMO community and a very like minded faction so make sure you also get ideas and views from other sources there is a rather large hard core gaming community out there to tap into. EQ had a lot of great ideas and if they make it into Pantheon you won't go wrong but it wasn't perfect there is a reason hard core players left EQ so it wasn't perfect. Part of the reason I stopped was RL others were game issues.
When I posted this thread we hadn't seen the Twitch footage so we weren't sure what it would look like.
I have to admit that after seeing the Twitch footage I was very happy indeed. It took the core concepts from EQ but added new gameplay mechanics that just simply did not exist in EQ (or Vanguard even). That is exactly what I was looking for. As I've said numerous times I loved EQ but I think a new MMO on the market has to do so much more than just copy EQ to be successful and I'm pretty sure that Pantheon will be that MMO. New gameplay mechanics are what bring the mystery back to the game because you don't know how they work before you start playing and I'm loving the fact that there is no map in the game as that will make the game world feel so much bigger and immersive.
So a lot has changed since I made the original post and overall I'm very happy with what we have learnt. My excitement levels are growing daily :).