Mounts.
(If at all, then...)
YES, by all means. Equal to the best movement speed buff; BUT!,
1. They are EXPENSIVE.
2. You cannot store them in a pockert (pack), you dismount them and leave them to stand.
3. They can be killed! ex.: If a monster or beast kills them outside that dungeon you're delving, you wait until the next real-world day to re-summon them.
4. You must FEED them. Forage or pay. They need care and tending just like you. Food and drink!
5. They are large creatures and cannot be ridden indoors at all (even in structures in an area classified as "out of doors"; would YOU ride a horse into YOUR living room?), and some terrains should be impassable for a mounted toon as compared to a walking toon (humanoids go rock-climbing; horses don't).
6. They should allow an encumberance buff (Increased carry capacity) while mounted, but on foot... Nada.
7. Lastly, a level requirement to own / operate a mount. Yes, I said it... :P
We start with 'the rags on our back and a rusty weapon', so a new toon (twinked, or not) should advance to an acceptable level BEFORE being given the ability to use a mount (regardless of how much riches they have access to).
Just a pre-coffee, opinion-fest. Game On! :)
I dont think they should be equal to best movement speed buff, they should be lower. Mounts should just be a nice thing to have if you have no speed buffs yourself and theres no one around to help you with one.
Also in regard to your second point, I don't think it is a good idea to have mounts stand around. I have seen this in a game recently and the small town I was in was drowning in horses standing everywhere. It may be silly that you can keep them in a bag or that you can whistle and they show up from out of the blue, but I do prefer this to tons of mounts cluttering the citys :)
-sorte.
Sorte said:I dont think they should be equal to best movement speed buff, they should be lower. Mounts should just be a nice thing to have if you have no speed buffs yourself and theres no one around to help you with one.
Also in regard to your second point, I don't think it is a good idea to have mounts stand around. I have seen this in a game recently and the small town I was in was drowning in horses standing everywhere. It may be silly that you can keep them in a bag or that you can whistle and they show up from out of the blue, but I do prefer this to tons of mounts cluttering the citys :)
-sorte.
How should they be slower? It's unrealistic for someone to be able to run faster than a mount. There should be burdens to using a mount but this is not one of them. They should be fast but easy to be dismounted.
They shouldn't give you Hp and mana buffs like eq did late game.
Maybe give + carry weight but I'm thinking no.
I kind of liked how Eso did mounts where you had 3 mount traits you could progress through to make your mount either 1: Faster 2: More stamina to Sprint 3: increase carry weight.
Maybe have mounts in equal speed to the highest speed enhancing buff but just a touch faster
Make it easy to be dismounted IE 3-4 hits.
And give them a small inventory pack rather than increasing carry weight. When I say small i mean the size of a small to medium bag. 6-8 slots[ or not at all]. It should be more of a cosmetic enhacment than a way to skip by content you don't focus on anymore.
I do like some of the above posts about it not being able to fit on your pack. This is the only way I have seen that I agree with. I decently do not agree with mounts just staying as an animated object after you dismount. As unrealistic as this is, it's the best way so fat that I have seen without creating a ton of other issues.
I think I would be in favor of seeing the mount speed capped to the same bonus of SoW or similar buffs. These movement enhancing buffs should be highly sought after and if everybody is running around with a mount, it devalues them. I also think mounts should be limited to outdoor areas only, and have some sort of maintenance. I do like the idea of having a sense of progression tied into our mounts, but at the very least, they should be quite difficult to obtain. In my opinion, they shouldn't be accessible until level 35 at the earliest. Allow players to pamper their mounts with special kinds of feed, grooming, and housing stables. Perhaps introduce a breeding system that has a pedigree element tied into it -- allowing players to have some influence on this market would be awesome! They should have an ultra high purchase price, and a moderately high maintenance cost. If you don't take care of your companion, it could end up sustaining injury and need to be rehabiliated. Their stamina, top speed, carry bonus, etc would all be relative to how well they are taken care of. I think this would actually be a really cool "profession" similar to crafting. Instead of there being a static price for them, allow supply/demand to be factored in where the best mounts (with high scaling measurables) would be extremely sought after.
RustedOne said:Mounts.
(If at all, then...)
YES, by all means. Equal to the best movement speed buff; BUT!,
1. They are EXPENSIVE.
2. You cannot store them in a pockert (pack), you dismount them and leave them to stand.
3. They can be killed! ex.: If a monster or beast kills them outside that dungeon you're delving, you wait until the next real-world day to re-summon them.
4. You must FEED them. Forage or pay. They need care and tending just like you. Food and drink!
5. They are large creatures and cannot be ridden indoors at all (even in structures in an area classified as "out of doors"; would YOU ride a horse into YOUR living room?), and some terrains should be impassable for a mounted toon as compared to a walking toon (humanoids go rock-climbing; horses don't).
6. They should allow an encumberance buff (Increased carry capacity) while mounted, but on foot... Nada.
7. Lastly, a level requirement to own / operate a mount. Yes, I said it... :P
We start with 'the rags on our back and a rusty weapon', so a new toon (twinked, or not) should advance to an acceptable level BEFORE being given the ability to use a mount (regardless of how much riches they have access to).
Just a pre-coffee, opinion-fest. Game On! :)
I mostly agree with this. maybe with the exception of your horse dying while you are not on him
I would also like to see--wait for it-- flying mounts ingame. But with a rediculouse wait period to own them. Lets say you collect a very rare wyvern or dragon egg. You mus care for it for lets sya 6 months real time. Then you need to wait for it to mature- another 6 months real time. then you need a min level -lets say level 45 to ride it. It cannot fight for you (I hated horseback combat in lotro) or be summoned during a battle. Extra saddlebags can be purchased for it (or your horse) to be able to carry more items. After all a level 45 will need more carry capacity for resources etc he is foraging in the higher level zones.
I really like the idea of being able to fast travel to higher zones and also see the landscape at the same time. As a diehard druid I loved porting but really missed the sightseeing and the ability to drop out of port mode at a whim. Maybe drop in on some mobs that are spawned and on the way to your goal.Kind of like levitate in eq near Karnor castle where you could be so high your only problem was Gorinaire.
Please do not crucify me in this post, It is just a personal wish I have.
Isaya said:RustedOne said:Mounts.
(If at all, then...)
YES, by all means. Equal to the best movement speed buff; BUT!,
1. They are EXPENSIVE.
2. You cannot store them in a pockert (pack), you dismount them and leave them to stand.
3. They can be killed! ex.: If a monster or beast kills them outside that dungeon you're delving, you wait until the next real-world day to re-summon them.
4. You must FEED them. Forage or pay. They need care and tending just like you. Food and drink!
5. They are large creatures and cannot be ridden indoors at all (even in structures in an area classified as "out of doors"; would YOU ride a horse into YOUR living room?), and some terrains should be impassable for a mounted toon as compared to a walking toon (humanoids go rock-climbing; horses don't).
6. They should allow an encumberance buff (Increased carry capacity) while mounted, but on foot... Nada.
7. Lastly, a level requirement to own / operate a mount. Yes, I said it... :P
We start with 'the rags on our back and a rusty weapon', so a new toon (twinked, or not) should advance to an acceptable level BEFORE being given the ability to use a mount (regardless of how much riches they have access to).
Just a pre-coffee, opinion-fest. Game On! :)
I mostly agree with this. maybe with the exception of your horse dying while you are not on him
I would also like to see--wait for it-- flying mounts ingame. But with a rediculouse wait period to own them. Lets say you collect a very rare wyvern or dragon egg. You mus care for it for lets sya 6 months real time. Then you need to wait for it to mature- another 6 months real time. then you need a min level -lets say level 45 to ride it. It cannot fight for you (I hated horseback combat in lotro) or be summoned during a battle. Extra saddlebags can be purchased for it (or your horse) to be able to carry more items. After all a level 45 will need more carry capacity for resources etc he is foraging in the higher level zones.
I really like the idea of being able to fast travel to higher zones and also see the landscape at the same time. As a diehard druid I loved porting but really missed the sightseeing and the ability to drop out of port mode at a whim. Maybe drop in on some mobs that are spawned and on the way to your goal.Kind of like levitate in eq near Karnor castle where you could be so high your only problem was Gorinaire.
Please do not crucify me in this post, It is just a personal wish I have.
Haha very hard not to when you use curse words like flying mounts. If it's just to see landscape than I would say add a hot airblaloon [theme park ride] that will take yo up to see the landscape then back to the original take of spot. All this before flying mounts! :p
Sintec said:How should they be slower? It's unrealistic for someone to be able to run faster than a mount. There should be burdens to using a mount but this is not one of them. They should be fast but easy to be dismounted.
As long as the player is buffed, magic is a fine justification for someone running faster than a horse. However, I do also like the idea of movement speed buffs applying to mounts (at least a %) to keep the spells relevant. Another solution would be to make it so that horses have endurance. They can sprint fast for short durations, but it burns a lot of endurance. Or they can trot at slower speeds for longer durations as it consumes endurance slower. The mount would regenerate endurance faster if it is well fed.
Also, Brad has already said some mobs will have a specific bonus to dismounting players (such as pikemen). Those mobs will probably be able to dismount someone in one hit. But even regular mobs will be able to dismount someone relatively easily.
Very very few things would make me refuse to play Pantheon - there are many issues being discussed and I expect some to be resolved the way I want and some - most, actually, to be resolved in a way I want less. Such is life.
Mounted combat of the LOTRO style is one of those few. For those unfamiliar with it, this involved much faster movement and a different set of combat abilities not simply fighting in more-or-less the usual way on a mount. And at high levels it was almost mandatory to beat many fights. I don't think there is any chance of that here but, for the record, please NO!!
More-or-less normal combat but with some different effects would be OK though I would just as soon not see it. War horses were enormously expensive and very hard for normal people to get - and just as hard to control without the right training. But those horses could be quite effective in combat with kicks adding greatly to the damage from the rider.
A third approach is to let mounts fight in combat as if they were combat pets - next to you not under you. The FFXIV approach. Again, OK but I would just as soon not see this.
I am a traditionalist on this - let mounts be something you ride and no more.
I liked flying mounts in Vanguard (probably can't be flamed too badly for saying good things about a Vanguard feature) and EQ2 back in the day when it took a long quest at level 85 to get them (as mentioned above). But given all I know so far about the intended pace and style of Pantheon I would reluctantly vote for ground mounts only at least until several expansions into the game. And when/if they are introduced the idea of having them usable in a zone only AFTER you have done all the mainline quests in the zone (as in FFXIV) or hit a level where the zone is trivial to you makes sense - that way flying is less likely to let you zoom past content or avoid content mechanics.
I love mounts, but IMO they should be a prestiege item like they were when they were first added to EQ or even like they were in early WoW. I don't really care for the concept of every level 1 character starting with a mount.
They should either cost a large amount of gold, be a high-end drop, or be the result of a non-trivial quest.
I also like better mounts having a faster run speed than slower ones.
aslong as we never see flying mounts im fine but would like to have "normal mounts" like horses, bears, pigs, lions, and even skeleton horses or some strange creature aslong as we dont get crazy mounts that are to big or flashy or colourful.. normal fantasy mounts basically..
Iksar said:Please no mounts as drops. It's just silly to think about.
I agree, with the exception of a few very specific situations where it makes sense. For example, I can theoretically imagine some boss fight against a Headless Horseman. You kill the horseman. Do you agree that you should then have a very small chance to be able to take his horse?
Humongus +1 for no flying mounts
The cons outweigh the pros big a huge margin and compeletly **** up the game in so many ways.
For ground mounts, I hope they're expensive and very rare, and that the movement speed from buffs can stack up with the mount movement speed, so you don't loose the player interactin aspect. Make the player unmount or dazze them, if they're struck when in combat so rushing through the zones isn't possible.
Amsai said:Movement speed buffs should trump mount speed if not in durration. So make mounts faster than on foot without movement buffs. But make movement buffs faster than mounts. The difference being that mount speed is constant, but that movement buffs have a durration.
That's actually a good way of looking at it and now I agree. I would be just as happy with no mounts even. Give me cool looking gear and a speed buff instead.
Sintec said:Amsai said:Movement speed buffs should trump mount speed if not in durration. So make mounts faster than on foot without movement buffs. But make movement buffs faster than mounts. The difference being that mount speed is constant, but that movement buffs have a durration.
That's actually a good way of looking at it and now I agree. I would be just as happy with no mounts even. Give me cool looking gear and a speed buff instead.
Right there with you. But we already know there will be mounts, so just trying to work within the system ^.~
Prindan said:I am in the 'no mount' camp as well. I guess it is a sore spot for me as I mained a Druid and saw how it degraded the need for speed enhancing buffs later in the game. Part of the fun of being a druid was buffing people with something valuable and feeling needed.
If that is your only concern, I suggest you look at the comment directly above yours :)
Bazgrim said:Prindan said:I am in the 'no mount' camp as well. I guess it is a sore spot for me as I mained a Druid and saw how it degraded the need for speed enhancing buffs later in the game. Part of the fun of being a druid was buffing people with something valuable and feeling needed.
If that is your only concern, I suggest you look at the comment directly above yours :)
Stacking speed buffs is a bad idea. Why do you want to rush through everything. Bard speed was to fast imo haha. I don't want people to be able to mount passed mobs with ease.
Sintec said:Bazgrim said:Prindan said:I am in the 'no mount' camp as well. I guess it is a sore spot for me as I mained a Druid and saw how it degraded the need for speed enhancing buffs later in the game. Part of the fun of being a druid was buffing people with something valuable and feeling needed.
If that is your only concern, I suggest you look at the comment directly above yours :)
Stacking speed buffs is a bad idea. Why do you want to rush through everything. Bard speed was to fast imo haha. I don't want people to be able to mount passed mobs with ease.
I'm not necessarily advocating stacking. I'm just pointing out Amsai's suggestion that you already agreed with lol
geatz said: Ehhh, not sure how much I care to see them. If they make it in game I hope they are somewhat burdensome. Maybe have travel speed greatly increased but I don't think they should travel around with you in a backpack, you should be forced to stable them or else they wander off in the zone. And you will have to pay that ranger or druid to track it. If you can't find after 1 or 2 days poof it's gone go buy another one. Making the ranger and druid more naturally gifted for horse travel within zones, maybe even give the ranger a skill or spell to call their mount back. Just an idea...
No. Please, just no. Yet another reason why I cannot get a buff, a rez, or a port... "Sorry, in a group.", "Sorry, just got rezed 3 zones away.", "Sorry, mounted."
Running past the slow-moving person and you have sow? Sorry, buddy, there's no way in heck I'm bothering to get off of my mount and sow you so I have to spend 20 minutes getting it back. Cheerio!
geatz said:and adding to many classes that buff things players wants leads to severe class inbalances. WTB/WTS player buffs PST does not need to make a comeback
This is EXACTLY EXACTLY what DOES need to make a comeback. Despite these "severe class imbalances" melees are to this day still more popular than any of the classes that have these needed spells or buffs. Class individuality, with all its goods, bads, and indifferents, MUST make a comeback. By having something people needed, or needing something other people had, you were forced to interact, on either side.
If something has value, people will buy it. If it's not worth buying, it's not worth anything. It's just that simple.
If KEI weren't useful, no one would buy it. It would be like WoW. No one seeks out buffs in WoW. They're demanded in groups, but outside of that? Useless. You can't buff a newbie. Nobody needs them badly enough to go in search of them before they adventure. Buffs in 99% of games these days are "nice" or only mandatory at raids--and not even so mandatory that you go in search of a class BECAUSE you need specific buffs.
Everything about "WTB/WTS xyz spell!" is necessary for a thriving game. Nope, warriors won't be able to buff. They'll (hopefully) need certain buffs from others. But their dependency outside of groups is group dependency ON THEM. As the premier tank, groups will take them over others if they can. That's their payoff, and it's huge. Melees, for all their dependencies, are still more popular than mana-dependent DPS, it's that simple. Both for people playing them and for people building groups.
The supposed "imbalance" of buffs is what has led to buffs being "well, that's nice" and not a, "omg, I was going to tradeskill, but I got this sweet buff, I HAVE to go use it!"
It's the difference between tossing a buff at a newbie and they get a lvl 2 buff out of your lvl 53 cast, and, "wow, I'm a GOD/DESS for the next 30 minutes! This is THE BEST THING EVER!"
This is THE THING that does need to make a comeback. Beyond all shadow of all doubt in my personal opinion. I would convict. :p
No we just need a rule passed called VR Care where everyone gets buffs and every class can play solo. [Sarcasm for those who couldn't figure that one out]
I'm with Amris once pop came out druids were no longer a playable class. They were not needed. I loved being lol 5 and getting that high level hp or damage shield buff. Also enjoyed giving them out. It's another sense of accomplishment to give them out or a sense of desire to get those spells yourself someday.
I hear mount talks and I live in fear that the major hubs in Pantheon will start to resemble Orgrimmar in WoW. No Thanks...
It is something that can get out of control and I think VR knows this. I think a big focus will be allowing everyone to experience the world first hand, first time around. A lot of foot travel and then eventually, higher levels, getting ground mounts. Could be faction, dropped, etc...
I am still not a fan of flying mounts, even though I hear arguments about how fun it is to fly over the world. I would be more of a fan of gliding later in the game (fun, limited air time unless advanced AAs etc..) You could even make certain areas only attainable by gliding over to it, which players would have to build up to...
So I am not opposed to ground mounts later in the game that make travel that much easier and more rewarding. In my mind, they would have degrees of speed, adjusted by AAs or something similar... BUT if Bard's follow EQ one, they will probably have the highest travel speed when maxed out or highest travel skill. That makes them special like they were before. Mounts built up would have the 2nd fastest speed ect...
This is where my mind is going with mounts... May be off track from some of you.
>No we just need a rule passed called VR Care where everyone gets buffs and every class can play solo. <
I agree. About time we have some people agreeing that we shouldn't all be forced into the same 'forced grouping" straightjacket. Grouping should be more rewarding, certainly, but if someone doesn't have time to group or has too many interruptions they should be able to progress toward maximum level even if it is only at 1/10 the speed. I don't agree about the buffs but as to the rest you are spot-on. ((deliberately ignores the obvious sarcasm))