Personally, I think the lock-out timer mechanic will discourage guilds from "locking down" an encounter and allow other guilds to stub their toes trying to learn the encounter. It would encourage diplomacy in the community, because the guild that defeated the encounter would have valuable information and they can choose not to share it.
My assumption- and I could be wrong-is that a guild that repeatedly locks down an encounter for more times than there are members in the guild (plus or minus the random loot generator for that one piece all 4 wariors must have) should lead to deflation for high end items in the secondary market, but most often tempts the guild into the bannable offence that is RMT or tempts the new player to secretly pay-2-win from seeing the item in the game market and then purchasing in game coin for RM form a third party, to buy said item in game- often from the high ranking guild member themselves.
Heck, make a special rule-set server with "contested mobs!" and...no server transfers, ever,no matter how bad it gets populaiton-wise.
Liav said:Pyye said:True I just wanted it stayed here that we don't want a harsh situation... I would assume in the case you mentioned, if there was a fail, there would be a lock out timer applied per the turn in character?
Lockouts are generally only issued upon successful completion of a raid encounter.
I'd assume it would be like epic 2.0 fights in Omens of War in EQ. If you wipe, you try again until it dies, then you lose the ability to spawn it again as you have progressed the quest.
Raid fights for epic pieces generally are a unique case in the grand context of raiding targets. You're using up your entire guild's time for one person's quest, so it's necessary to have systems built in to make successful completion of these quests viable in a fast manner. You can't be dragging your entire guild out to help with a raid fight, wipe, then have to do it again next week. It stalls progress way too much.
True good point... No need having extra wasted time. If it is truly a tough fight, sometimes it is fun to grind through and learn the technique, and it only makes the guild / group play better...
Liav said:This is all fine and dandy, but I haven't heard you try to describe a contested content system that doesn't lead to one guild full of sociopathic neckbeards monopolizing all the content. If it is possible to monopolize, it will be monopolized. Unless VR wants to dedicate thousands of man hours to policing a rotation system like P99, SOUNDS LEGIT.
Also what do you mean lockouts are instancing on a mob by mob basis? 90% of the complaints I hear about instancing is that it splits up the game world. If the content is contested then by design it doesn't do that.
I don't feel like playing a game with a bunch of shitters who are going to destroy the game so they can be on top. If you want to be on top, you can do so through your playing ability. Not your ability to sit on your ass and stare at the spawn loc for a pixel dragon for hours.
Actually I've posted solutions to that on many occasions.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2943/my-only-raid-concern
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1916/community-brainstormin-how-to-stop-the-sock
Also, the few hundred beards that you've seen monopolize content on p99 don't represent the normal playerbase on a server. Not in EQ or any of the other games I've played with contested content.... and not in Pantheon. Those few hundred or so players that make emu server so competitive and toxic represent like .01% of the people that will play Pantheon. I know people like to use that as some sort of scientific evidence of how things will play out, but its not demonstrative evidence.
I don't see any solutions, just the assertion that it isn't as much of a problem or won't be as much of a problem in Pantheon.
I disagree because even in games like EQ2, the sock was real, and this is as recent as 3 years ago when avatars were in. The fact is that a single guild on every server will monopolize 90% of the contested pops as long as the gear they drop remains relevant. That's what history says, and I see no reason to see that it will change if we abide by the same mechanics.
You've also not stated a reason why lockouts are bad other than just expressing simple disagreement. We need solutions. Lockouts are a guaranteed solution. Instancing is also a guaranteed solution, but I digress that instancing is harmful in excess. So that leaves us with lockouts.
Dullahan said:Also, the few hundred beards that you've seen monopolize content on p99 don't represent the normal playerbase on a server. Not in EQ or any of the other games I've played with contested content.... and not in Pantheon. Those few hundred or so players that make emu server so competitive and toxic represent like .01% of the people that will play Pantheon. I know people like to use that as some sort of scientific evidence of how things will play out, but its not demonstrative evidence.
Except the exact same thing is happening on Phinigel, where one guild of beards completely shits on anyone they see so they can rise to the top. And this is even on a server that is already 95% instanced, you still get these douchebags. The exact same thing happened in EQ2, and the exact same thing happened in Vanguard as well, although to a much lesser extent due to the small playerbase.
I can't even count the number of times a specific shitter guild attempted to lag us out with flying mounts on our raids so they could snipe our kill.
Liav said:Dullahan said:Also, the few hundred beards that you've seen monopolize content on p99 don't represent the normal playerbase on a server. Not in EQ or any of the other games I've played with contested content.... and not in Pantheon. Those few hundred or so players that make emu server so competitive and toxic represent like .01% of the people that will play Pantheon. I know people like to use that as some sort of scientific evidence of how things will play out, but its not demonstrative evidence.
Except the exact same thing is happening on Phinigel, where one guild of beards completely shits on anyone they see so they can rise to the top. And this is even on a server that is already 95% instanced, you still get these douchebags. The exact same thing happened in EQ2, and the exact same thing happened in Vanguard as well, although to a much lesser extent due to the small playerbase.
I can't even count the number of times a specific shitter guild attempted to lag us out with flying mounts on our raids so they could snipe our kill.
You are citing examples of servers that always bring in a high concentration of the same types of players. Emus, legacy servers, and TLPs always bring back those kinds of players in droves. They also have allowed more players on many of those servers than they were ever designed for. Most EQ servers didn't even have 2k players. You played Vanguard, and that was the same scenario in the end. I remember when there were still people playing and multiple servers. Contested content wasn't a big issue.
That was not the way those servers worked in their haydays. I played EQ. I played EQ2 and many other MMOs. I played EQ on more than one server over the years, and even playing casually my guilds killed contested raid mobs.
Dullahan said:You are citing examples of servers that always bring in a high concentration of the same types of players. Emus, legacy servers, and TLPs always bring back those kinds of players in droves. They also have allowed more players on many of those servers than they were ever designed for. Most EQ servers didn't even have 2k players. You played Vanguard, and that was the same scenario in the end. I remember when there were still people playing and multiple servers. Contested content wasn't a big issue.
That was not the way those servers worked in their haydays. I played EQ. I played EQ2 and many other MMOs. I played EQ on more than one server over the years, and even playing casually my guilds killed contested raid mobs.
Honestly we'll never agree.
If contested content exists but goes largely uncontested, that seems to defeat the purpose. If contested content exists, it either gets monopolized by a single guild or sociopathy runs rampant.
To my knowledge EQ had at some point GM enforced raid rotations. To my knowledge the term "poopsocking" actually originated from classic EQ. It seems like an inevitability to me.
Liav said:Dullahan said:You are citing examples of servers that always bring in a high concentration of the same types of players. Emus, legacy servers, and TLPs always bring back those kinds of players in droves. They also have allowed more players on many of those servers than they were ever designed for. Most EQ servers didn't even have 2k players. You played Vanguard, and that was the same scenario in the end. I remember when there were still people playing and multiple servers. Contested content wasn't a big issue.
That was not the way those servers worked in their haydays. I played EQ. I played EQ2 and many other MMOs. I played EQ on more than one server over the years, and even playing casually my guilds killed contested raid mobs.
Honestly we'll never agree.
If contested content exists but goes largely uncontested, that seems to defeat the purpose. If contested content exists, it either gets monopolized by a single guild or sociopathy runs rampant.
To my knowledge EQ had at some point GM enforced raid rotations. To my knowledge the term "poopsocking" actually originated from classic EQ. It seems like an inevitability to me.
So its bad if content isn't killed immediately, and its bad if guilds are waiting for it.
To this day you can still see the raid activity of the hardcore guilds on EQ. Legacy of Steel was a powerhouse, yet they never sat around waiting for mobs to spawn. They roamed around killing whatever was up. Particularly on repop days, they'd raid for hours on end, and those mobs were fair game for everyone to kill.
I'm sure VR has their own ideas, but its not that complicated; Implementing the things I've suggested would mean content monopolizing as we know it would not exist. Would the hardcores still have a leg up? Sure, and so they should. But they would with any system, including lockouts.
Dullahan said:I'm against work-arounds that allow players to spawn a different personal (guild) version of a raid mob. The reason raiding was so appealing in EQ (and totally unappealing in every game since), was largely due to the exclusivity and challenge of coordinating a large number of players with the necessary skill and gear prep, to kill a raid mob often with other guilds nipping at your heels.
That said, if there were a few lengthy quest lines that took weeks or months for guilds to work collectively to spawn a unique boss mob, I wouldn't be against that. As long as said mob was not in an instance and could hypothetically become fair game to others if the guild was unable to kill it (or contested on a PvP server). That would be interesting.
I'm on board with this.
I'd like to add that I'd also love to see a variety of raids. Some being spawed through quests, others like the devs have mentioned: a horde of fire giants suddenly invading a zone (hopefully a fairly rare event), traditionally contested raids, raids that are also more easily attained for people who want to raid (lockout raids), but are not a part of an uber raiding guild. I happened to enjoy, although I was never a part of it, the awakening of the Sleeper in EQ. This kind of variety would keep some raids really coveted and highly respected, but also have a few other raids that all or most have the chance to enjoy. In short, not only one type of raid - not or an all or nothing scenario.
Gadgets said:I think my goal is to ensure that a 'casual' guild can have content of it's own that they can schedule a time to do it. It doesn't have to be top tier stuff.
Yes!
Dullahan said:Also, the few hundred beards that you've seen monopolize content on p99 don't represent the normal playerbase on a server. Not in EQ or any of the other games I've played with contested content.... and not in Pantheon. Those few hundred or so players that make emu server so competitive and toxic represent like .01% of the people that will play Pantheon. I know people like to use that as some sort of scientific evidence of how things will play out, but its not demonstrative evidence.
Seriously?? EQ2 had contested mobs on lockdown on most servers. Even the PVP servers locked down most of the Avatars. Everything in KOS was Locked down as well. My guild had every contested mob in KOS on lockdown for almost 6 months before someone else managed to swipe a kill. Hell we didnt even need to sock it to make it happen
Liav said:Dullahan said:You are citing examples of servers that always bring in a high concentration of the same types of players. Emus, legacy servers, and TLPs always bring back those kinds of players in droves. They also have allowed more players on many of those servers than they were ever designed for. Most EQ servers didn't even have 2k players. You played Vanguard, and that was the same scenario in the end. I remember when there were still people playing and multiple servers. Contested content wasn't a big issue.
That was not the way those servers worked in their haydays. I played EQ. I played EQ2 and many other MMOs. I played EQ on more than one server over the years, and even playing casually my guilds killed contested raid mobs.
Honestly we'll never agree.
If contested content exists but goes largely uncontested, that seems to defeat the purpose. If contested content exists, it either gets monopolized by a single guild or sociopathy runs rampant.
To my knowledge EQ had at some point GM enforced raid rotations. To my knowledge the term "poopsocking" actually originated from classic EQ. It seems like an inevitability to me.
Some GMs did. ON rallso zek if we fought to long PVP wise over a mob or klilled it to many times ina row some GM would log in freeze the raid force and give someone one try and then let us try
A very similar debate was happening on the thread about dungeon instancing and Aradune ended it with the following post:
Aradune said:Our ideal goal, as I've posted before, is to have *some* competition for resources but not too many. If it becomes too much then that is either a general indication that there are too many people playing on that shard (in which case we need to launch more shards and spread people out). But it could also mean that we've not done a good job spreading out compelling loot and boss encounters and quests... if everyone is spending their time in just a few dungeons with much of the other content and regions underpopulated or empty then we've screwed up. If we effectively spread out compelling content and rewards than players should be more spread out and less over crowding and competition should happen. Sometimes it will be totally different rewards/items, but other times we may need to create similar yet different items and put them in different parts of the world.
In any case, while it's easier to just resort to instancing, we feel instancing brings more negative than positives. We do realize that many of our design decisions and tenets require more work, more care, more monitoring, etc. But we think it's worth it. Resorting to 'quick fixes' to address deeper design issues is something we want to avoid.
Dullahan said:You are citing examples of servers that always bring in a high concentration of the same types of players. Emus, legacy servers, and TLPs always bring back those kinds of players in droves.
You had exact the same behavior in Vanilla WoW which Liav describes. Batphone calls at 2:30 am because the nightmare dragons were spawned. They were killed by a hc guild at night and the normal folks had almost never a chance to see them. Luckily the nightmare dragons were never a requirement for further progress.
Greetings
@OP: Triggering a raid encounter from a rare drop or collection of rare drops is a great idea. Leaves lots of room for the developers to balance content availability with server demand. Making a drop or two tradable would add an interesting dynamic as well.
However, I wouldnt want ALL raid content delivered in this fashion. Variety keeps things interesting, and provides a little something for everyone. I'd like to see some highly contested open world raids, some available by item trigger, some available via instance, etc. Lots of room for creativity here.
flec said:A very similar debate was happening on the thread about dungeon instancing and Aradune ended it with the following post:
Aradune said:Our ideal goal, as I've posted before, is to have *some* competition for resources but not too many. If it becomes too much then that is either a general indication that there are too many people playing on that shard (in which case we need to launch more shards and spread people out). But it could also mean that we've not done a good job spreading out compelling loot and boss encounters and quests... if everyone is spending their time in just a few dungeons with much of the other content and regions underpopulated or empty then we've screwed up. If we effectively spread out compelling content and rewards than players should be more spread out and less over crowding and competition should happen. Sometimes it will be totally different rewards/items, but other times we may need to create similar yet different items and put them in different parts of the world.
In any case, while it's easier to just resort to instancing, we feel instancing brings more negative than positives. We do realize that many of our design decisions and tenets require more work, more care, more monitoring, etc. But we think it's worth it. Resorting to 'quick fixes' to address deeper design issues is something we want to avoid.
The 1st sentence is key and gives me hope that the developers recognize the problem of content monopolziation and their goal is to try to prevent it. Whether through lockouts, fast respawns, etc does not matter much and is up to them.
Very nice qoute Flec. This really says it all to me.
Amsai said:As far as passing the torch? Not just no but hell no. That doesnt make sense to me. I support this game in the hopes that this can be MY new and hopefully final MMO home. Why else would I be here? Why would I contribute money and later pay a a sub so that other people and not me could enjoy this game? Sorry but I will be selfish on this issue. If other folks want to help me carry a torch or get thier own thats fine. But they cant have mine. I dont consider this game being made for the "new" generartion. Its being made for us oldschoolers as we are now. And Im sure that Brad has said basicslly this in a couple of interviews already. Not the young versions of ourselves or the next generation. If they want to get on board I wont stop them though.
I agree with Wolfsong in that this game should be first and foremost about a persistant world that is not particularly made for any one person or style of play. Period.
Anyway, I think the answer to the raiding/spawn issue may be a combination of a number of things. Whatever makes the world feel more alive and, well, fun. There should be contested content, but there should also be quest spawned content. There could also be lock outs for certain mobs or items also, if it fits the lore or the world.
One big issue people keep bringing up is the problem of the bat phone. Just a few individuals will camp the raid targets and then 'bat phone' in all their friends when they spawn. Well, why not make that impossible to do, or nearly impossible. Or better yet, just make it a major chore to do... the last is my favorite.
What if each boss mob were surrounded by relatively powerful mobs that would require a multi-group raid force to get through. The only way you could check on the raid target (to see if it was up) would be to fight through these mobs that spawn relatively quickly. These see-invis mobs just love to swallow whole anyone who is feigning death or otherwise trying to hang out to see if the target is up. Make it so you have to go in with a multi-group force just to see if the raid target is up. And if you want to stay, you have to keep fighting these relatively powerful, quick spawning mobs. Oh, and raid targets should not be trackable. How do you track something that sits still in its cave?
End of the bat phone.
EDIT: Why do mobs have to spawn so predictably? Why spawn every 5 days? Why not every 3-7 days?
JDNight said:What if each boss mob were surrounded by relatively powerful mobs that would require a multi-group raid force to get through. The only way you could check on the raid target (to see if it was up) would be to fight through these mobs that spawn relatively quickly. These see-invis mobs just love to swallow whole anyone who is feigning death or otherwise trying to hang out to see if the target is up. Make it so you have to go in with a multi-group force just to see if the raid target is up. And if you want to stay, you have to keep fighting these relatively powerful, quick spawning mobs. Oh, and raid targets should not be trackable. How do you track something that sits still in its cave?
Exactly. Those are just a few of the suggestions I've put forth to rectify this issue. I truly believe if you can't predict when a mob is spawning, and you can't just track or sneak/train in and check a mob, that means guilds will have to commit a considerable amount of time to even ascertain whether an important mob is up. Meanwhile, everyone else can check other spawns.
Will this still be most rewarding to the hardcores? Yes. But at least there is no excuse. No one person with the batphone can determine what is up. It will reward hard work. Any guild that has the numbers can gather a raid and fight down towards a boss mob. Throw in a few mini bosses on a faster respawn, and you can make a night of it with a chance of getting a shot at the big boss.
Wolfsong said:Amsai said:As far as passing the torch? Not just no but hell no. That doesnt make sense to me. I support this game in the hopes that this can be MY new and hopefully final MMO home. Why else would I be here? Why would I contribute money and later pay a a sub so that other people and not me could enjoy this game? Sorry but I will be selfish on this issue. If other folks want to help me carry a torch or get thier own thats fine. But they cant have mine. I dont consider this game being made for the "new" generartion. Its being made for us oldschoolers as we are now. And Im sure that Brad has said basicslly this in a couple of interviews already. Not the young versions of ourselves or the next generation. If they want to get on board I wont stop them though.
Yeah! Screw those younger people coming to the genre who have all the time in the world, like we used to, and might want to get to experience the authentic old-school experience many vets have spoken so highly of! They aren't important! Ignore the fact that there were many people with careers, families and busy lives who played EQ1, AC1 and all those old-school MMOs, but still enjoyed themselves and progressed all the same! Let's just pretend they never existed! I deserve special treatment because I'm a grown-up now, even though I refuse to think or prioritize my time like one!"
Well, hey... At least you're honest about your undeserved sense of entitlement. Kudos for that, I guess?
No snark, no sarcasm... why are some of you even following Pantheon? That's an honest question. Why are you actually here? After following these forums for a while now, and reading many of your posts, it sure as hell isn't to support the kind of experience Pantheon is, by many accounts, and many sources, intended to be.
Some of you - through the questions you ask, the requests you make, and your arguments, do not seem to actually want what this title is intended to be. At all. I don't care what the topic is, I see the same names all asking for more convenience, more expedience - less "world", more "game" - less "we", more "me" - less mystery, more predictability. It's become 100% predictable with some of you. I need only see your name on the left side of the thread, and I know exactly what your opinion is going to be.
It's exactly as Dullahan implied previously... Some of you don't want a virtual world, you just want another game. Scoff, act indignant and say "nuh uh!" all you like. Your arguments, suggestions and opinions, in thread after thread, clearly indicate otherwise.
Isn't there already a mile-long list of MMOs out there that cater to you people? Seriously, go to MMORPG.com, they have a list of them a mile long, every one of them already delivering all the crap you people are asking for on these forums. Stop trying to **** up a game that for once - ostensibly anyway - isn't going that way.
Good freaking grief.
omg yes
Wolfsong said:Amsai said:As far as passing the torch? Not just no but hell no. That doesnt make sense to me. I support this game in the hopes that this can be MY new and hopefully final MMO home. Why else would I be here? Why would I contribute money and later pay a a sub so that other people and not me could enjoy this game? Sorry but I will be selfish on this issue. If other folks want to help me carry a torch or get thier own thats fine. But they cant have mine. I dont consider this game being made for the "new" generartion. Its being made for us oldschoolers as we are now. And Im sure that Brad has said basicslly this in a couple of interviews already. Not the young versions of ourselves or the next generation. If they want to get on board I wont stop them though.
Yeah! Screw those younger people coming to the genre who have all the time in the world, like we used to, and might want to get to experience the authentic old-school experience many vets have spoken so highly of! They aren't important! Ignore the fact that there were many people with careers, families and busy lives who played EQ1, AC1 and all those old-school MMOs, but still enjoyed themselves and progressed all the same! Let's just pretend they never existed! I deserve special treatment because I'm a grown-up now, even though I refuse to think or prioritize my time like one!"
Well, hey... At least you're honest about your undeserved sense of entitlement. Kudos for that, I guess?
No snark, no sarcasm... why are some of you even following Pantheon? That's an honest question. Why are you actually here? After following these forums for a while now, and reading many of your posts, it sure as hell isn't to support the kind of experience Pantheon is, by many accounts, and many sources, intended to be.
Some of you - through the questions you ask, the requests you make, and your arguments, do not seem to actually want what this title is intended to be. At all. I don't care what the topic is, I see the same names all asking for more convenience, more expedience - less "world", more "game" - less "we", more "me" - less mystery, more predictability. It's become 100% predictable with some of you. I need only see your name on the left side of the thread, and I know exactly what your opinion is going to be.
It's exactly as Dullahan implied previously... Some of you don't want a virtual world, you just want another game. Scoff, act indignant and say "nuh uh!" all you like. Your arguments, suggestions and opinions, in thread after thread, clearly indicate otherwise.
Isn't there already a mile-long list of MMOs out there that cater to you people? Seriously, go to MMORPG.com, they have a list of them a mile long, every one of them already delivering all the crap you people are asking for on these forums. Stop trying to **** up a game that for once - ostensibly anyway - isn't going that way.
Good freaking grief.
This just needs to be quoted as many times as possible in its entirety, I've begun to grow weary of these forums because I see a lot of this going on post after post from the same people preaching the same convenience acceptance and embrace that is so starkly in contrast with what I and some others were to believe was the plan of Pantheon.
@ Wolfsong, Krixus, and Rallyd.
You dont know how the game will end up, my ideas or any others are open for debate. Flec found a good quote, and that combined with some other things Brad has said/posted, lead me to believe there are probably gonna be some things that you will have to learn to live with. Just as there will probably be some things I will have to learn to live with as far as game mechanics. Surely you guys dont believe that every one of you will all be 100% happy with every aspect of this game? Hell there might be some things that one or 2 of you love and the rest of you hate.
Also, I cant be screwin up endgame features that dont exist yet? Correct me if I am wrong but have the devs made ANY official announcements about how content will work? There have been vague references and hints that could mean anything and everything. The only thing that does seem to be clear is the whole no Instances thing (talking endgame not story) and an open world. Which to me could include lock outs and such, it still takes place in an open world. Now maybe that is part of the problem and it would help clear things up if we knew. What about things between leveling and raiding? How will that content work? Dungeons, AAs, Progeny, Epic Quests? You dont know!!!! Neither do I!!!! Again corect me if I am wrong. You guys are looking at things too black and white. Youve read something about a feature or a concept and just ran with it all on your own in some cases.
Why cant you guys be nice or at least be civil. I might not agree with Dullahan, but he brings a good argument and I can respect that. And I dont even know JDNight, but again I can respect his opinion about the game. Im not asking to be friends (that seems pretty unlikely at this point). Just asking you to be civil towards me, its not like I dont get frustrated too. Do you not know how much I hold back? If I can do it you can do it too.
@Wolfsong
Why am I here? To support and play this game. And eventually be the best Bard ever. Just because you disagree wih me on some things doesnt mean I dont belong here. Dont tell me to go play some other MMO. I hate it when people say that and even more when they say If Pantheon doesnt do X, then they will not support it or go elsewhere. And there have been quite a few people saying both of those lately. Oh and I do feel entitled! That is entitled to a game I paid into and the reward tiers that came with it. Do you not as well? Anytime I pay for something or pay into something I expect to get something in return? I thought most of us were looking for a new MMO home because each of our MMO homes just werent what they used to be/should be. And all the new stuff is utter crap?
Why are you here? Im sure its much the same as me. A return to oldschool? Its just there is no universal definition for oldschool. EQ, FFXI, AC, DAoC, Ultima. Your specific definition is not the same as mine. Nor is it neccessarily correct. You assume much with statements like this: "Some of you - through the questions you ask, the requests you make, and your arguments, do not seem to actually want what this title is intended to be." Again I ask, how do you know?
FierinaFuryfist said: Amsai, Wolfsong is making an educated guess on what this game will entail based on the fact that it will pull heavily from old school EQ and Vanguard. He is then filtering further statements made by the devs thru that lens. He doesn't KNOW but he's got a pretty good idea. This topic did not evoke it but i have had the same question pop up on my head from some of the debates.
I get that. I do. But its just conjecture. But by the same token I could start with some major conjecture based off things Ive read and heard from Brad/Kilsin. Also the key difference here is you acknowledge a good bit of influence comes from VG. From what Ive read the way VG and EQ endgames worked were quite different in some cases, particularly early EQ. VG had lockouts and something that sounds like channels to me as well. Which is something some people are clearly against. And Im not saying he is necessarily wrong. But he states things as fact or as if they are a given, and he doesnt really know. He acts like I am trying to ruin the game. How does he know? I cant see how some of you arent seeing that. Again I am definitely not saying that I do know. I dont! But Im not gonna sit here and not defend myself when Im being made to look like the bad guy on an argument that in my mind is as clear as mud. Because there is enough vagueness and statements from devs for us to have come to different conclusions.
Do you mean the question of why am I here? Thats really unfair. Just because I dont agree with others doesnt mean I dont belong here. And just because I prefer that Pantheon have certain features or mechanics does not mean Ill quit/leave this game if they arent in. Ultimately Im still looking for an oldschool experience in a new game too. Can you blame me for trying to introduce ideas that will maximize that experience. And I dont know if youve looked around lately but thats a very very very small list(Pantheon, Project Gorgon, Saga of Lucimia..... thats it)