I like the idea of spawning the targets, in Vanguard some boss monsters were only able to be spawned this way. i dont think it would be a stretch to make it useable for raid mobs.
I also like the idea of lockout timers for those who have taken down the target like we had in VG. it paces the community and allows for guilds that aren't poopsockers to try the high end content.
That's pretty cool. I am not up to date with modern day techniques.
I also did like, from Wurm Online, that epic mobs would spawn in random, often desolate places throughout the world. You'd never know where until someone actually laid eyes on it. Due to hazards and length of traveling, they could be anyone's target.
I'm against work-arounds that allow players to spawn a different personal (guild) version of a raid mob. The reason raiding was so appealing in EQ (and totally unappealing in every game since), was largely due to the exclusivity and challenge of coordinating a large number of players with the necessary skill and gear prep, to kill a raid mob often with other guilds nipping at your heels.
That said, if there were a few lengthy quest lines that took weeks or months for guilds to work collectively to spawn a unique boss mob, I wouldn't be against that. As long as said mob was not in an instance and could hypothetically become fair game to others if the guild was unable to kill it (or contested on a PvP server). That would be interesting.
I would be ok with an elaborate quest line that spawned a raid encounter that was then locked to a guild for say 2-3 hours then could be ganked....err politely waited for and you know, attempted only when the first guild gave up and all in good cheer allowed the next guy to have his shot.....LOLZ
But seriously, that way it would at least be worth someone's time to do the quest.
I like the whole every guild for themselves mentality, but if that isn't for everyone the above would be viable for both types of players perhaps.
I like the idea, because I remember hearing some european players that sometimes lamented they could not get any epic or raid spawns due to guild lock-downs or "sockers". We had some Finnish friends that would come on late in the evening while we were heading in (early in the afternoon for them) on raid nights. So they would not be bound by time zones and could be more convenient to them)
I like the FFXI point Amsai brought up because it also reminds me that it might create a situation like, where a dungeon was full of people? everyone running around and setting up camps in certain places, and filling groups. The thrill I got when higher level players ran past us to the harder areas. the general hustle and bustle that was not overly contended, like groups in Paludal caverns (although xp was too fast) you could practically walk to the other end if you were a younger player and wanted to visit the other area, or the Warrens, with Invis'd people dragging stacks of corpses past you to the zone line for CR's and medding, while the younger players held the camps at the entrance in check to allow you to zone in and get your stuff safely even without a res, because you didn't need one as groups were so good. Allowing the top guild to get first crack, sure, but at the same time preventing epic or desired drops from rotting. How much steak can you eat?
I think I fall on both sides of the coin on this topic. The pendulum has swung from the one side that is EQ1 everything contested to the other side that is WoW where literally nothing is contested. I feel that the answer lies somewhere in between. Friends and I often stroll down memory lane in vent while raiding in WoW about contested content. It is rather funny listening to responses from those who have never played a game like EQ1. I often wonder how todays "hardcore raiders" would actually fair in a contested environment. I tend to think for most the culture shock would be to great not having what they want when they want it to much and they would rage quit.
I think one cure for this is staggered spawn times. If raid targets are not on a hard 5 day or 7 day count but more random say 4 to 7 days it is harder for one guild to lock content down. With that being said I do like that triggered aspect as well. Anyone remember the 10th ring war? That was epic! And it was triggered. I also think faction can play a role in it also. I remember a friend of mine who was waiting and waiting for to find King Tormax up for a quest he showed his wife how to turn in the quest while he was at work if he spawned. She was so nervous she didnt want to screw it up if he spawned. I think also with so much instanced content now a days it forces the devs to put out content so much quicker because it is being consumed so much faster.
With all that being said I would be far more in favor of triggered raid mobs then full instances on weekly timers.
I wanted to revisit this topic here, as I have been playing on P99 again and it has had my gears turning.
I think that a good mix of low/mid/high raiding tiers would definitely help the more casual guilds to have an uncontested place in the raid scene. When discussing with other group members, etc. The idea of being able to have a guild... and schedule a raid time is an attractive idea the way my life runs now in comparison to when I was an unemplyed college nerd. , Having to be hostage to competitive racing just isn't realistic for a lot of adults now.
Maybe we can come up with some ideas to balance competition and casual?
Competition can come in the form of difficult of the encounters themselves.
The P99 raiding scene is about the bottom of the barrel. It's a style of gameplay that has lead to P99 being about as toxic as LoL on the top end, and it's an extremely inviting style of play for sociopaths with no life.
I will quit Pantheon on day one if the raiding ends up this way. Want to know why?
Liav said:Competition can come in the form of difficult of the encounters themselves.
I agree with this. I remember being in an end game guild in EQ Live During the OoW - DoDH era. The competition was still there, but in the form of server firsts, encounter skill, class numbers, keying, etc.
I'm really hoping that there is enough variation in all aspects of BiS gear and such that competition wouldn't get as bad as P99. I agree that the raid scene there is the worst I've ever witnessed. I go to those forums now just to get a chuckle out of all the anger thrown around.
Anyone who thinks these forums are toxic, take a stroll on over there.
I think it would be a great feature. In particular, lengthy questlines which require significant effort resulting in a quest item to spawn a major boss encounter would make the win all the sweeter. Perhaps requires multiple members of the raid to have the item in order to perform a ritual or whatever. Having this tied into the game lore is ideal of course. This isn't anything new to mmos but something that should be considered.
The think the game should include a variety of ways to engage/spawn raid encounters - open world, spawned for specific quests/progession, instanced, etc...without relying on one method. Variety is really key. Although I've never really understood the appeal of batphones, some love that sort of thing.
Forgot all about this thread, but I actually have something perfect that fits right in with it. I have posted this idea previously in various threads, but it makes sense to post it here as it deals with the same thing. Ill repost. It also might take care of the issue you are talking about Xonth. For the recors Im for a varied approach to all content but especially endgame. Ok here it is:
FFXI's Sky style endgame content!
Its basically (to me) the perfect meeting of contested and non contested. Multiple Named in a large zone so no uberguild can be all places at once. Open world competition for trigger or pop items that drop from Named. Then using the trigger items to summon the Gods. All open world. All despawn on wipe (which means collecting pops again), unless another Guild grabs it. All have rare drop rates for loot should you beat them. No instancing, 50/50 ratio of competitive and triggered Named. Back in the day when competiton was fierce (4 to 6 guilds on any given night) and the Gods were relevent. My guild could expect to spend 2 of 3 nights just trying to get the pop items (3-5 hours a night) needed to trigger a Named by day three.... roughly. So it was almost like having a 72 hour lock out with the addition of rare loot tables (it wasnt unheard of to have 3 God runs in a row drop jack ****). It was also a dangerous zone and wasnt uncommon to come around a bend and find an entire guild of dead people lol.
This in my opinion would offer both contested content and something in place of instanced but still be open world and also be a dangerous and challenging place. It could be tweaked to fit Pantheon as well.
Two reasons I want this: 1. Some of the most fun experience in large group/raid style activity I have ever had (there were several types including instanced in FFXI, but I always liked this one best). 2. I would hope this might provide a good middle ground solution for contested vs instanced content (Or even random any time content vs content you can time with your guild... at least in part)
Xonth said: Raid night becomes camp group level mobs for hours just for a single shot at a target.