Raidil said: So was doing a little thinking here on crafting. So hunger if you didn't have food and water your toon would loose stamina and stop regenerating how and mana. That kinda normal. but what if you also started to loose strength and once stamina and strength hit half way your would start negative regeneration so looseing how and mana. And what I was think is that as u level up yo needed hardier food to fill up so like bread and water maybe some cheap stew only gave 1-3 points. To hunger and not being able to buy more thin a 3point food from a vendor anything better must be player made. And let's say your appetite increase as you level up. If this was the case you'd go through food three times faster if all you bought was a cheap vendor stuff as you can levels. Making a big market for craft food. Let's say hunger for an hour at lv 1 is only point , lv 2 is 2points ect.. what's your thoughts
I like these concepts (not forcing player made stuff though, player markets should be always optional), but unfortunately most people here will object.
Raidil said: So was doing a little thinking here on crafting. So hunger if you didn't have food and water your toon would loose stamina and stop regenerating how and mana. That kinda normal. but what if you also started to loose strength and once stamina and strength hit half way your would start negative regeneration so looseing how and mana. And what I was think is that as u level up yo needed hardier food to fill up so like bread and water maybe some cheap stew only gave 1-3 points. To hunger and not being able to buy more thin a 3point food from a vendor anything better must be player made. And let's say your appetite increase as you level up. If this was the case you'd go through food three times faster if all you bought was a cheap vendor stuff as you can levels. Making a big market for craft food. Let's say hunger for an hour at lv 1 is only point , lv 2 is 2points ect.. what's your thoughts
I have a thought for this system as well. I think that it would be cool to see hunger and thirst be impactful to characters. I enjoyed the concept in EQ because it made my chracter feel like a living being, and also gave mages another reason to be desired in groups. The only thing that I really did not like about this system in EQ was the fact that a player could be extreamely hungry/thristy and not suffer damage/ eventually die. I think that if this system is going to be in pantheon then it needs to be real and have the positive effects and the negative.
I would not be opposed to seeing this system in pantheon and having it affect player health regen/ mana regen while in combat or meditating. There arre two other games outside of EQ that I feel like the developers should take some inspiration from.
WoW: I didn't like how food and water would restore an obseane amount of health and mana over a short period of time. I think that the only way to regen health and mana should be through natural regen mechancis and meditation. I did however enjoy the "Well Fed" buffs that foods could provide. I think it would be nice to see a "Well Fed" status in Pantheon with it affecting health, mana, and stamina regen values.
TERA:https://tera.fandom.com/wiki/Stamina I liked the stamina system in this game. I think that it would be cool to see something like this in Pantheon only tied to hunger and thrist values. It would give players a way to actively monitor their hunger and thirst levels. It would also be nice to see break points within this system which affect regen by X amount and the system could go from like -120-0-120. With postive values being helpful to your chracter and negative values... being potientially deadly.
I'm not sure how slow or fast it should drop or if character level should increase the rate of decay, although though it does make sense that level should have an impact on how fast/slow the decay is.
The only thing that I would caviot here is that upon deaths players should be given a temporary reprieve form the affects of hunger and thrist, maybe even possibly setting them back into the mid positive or full end of the spectrum. Adding a stystem that has dynamic gameplay is great but having a system be down right punishing especially for players having to corpse run isn't fun game play. There is also no telling how binding will work and it would be harmful to mak a player who frogot to bind themselves close to a dungeon run across multiple zones with deteriorating health values.
EppE said:I would be fine with food being removed as a requirement for health and mana regen. You can keep food that gives minor buffs.
I am 100% in agreement. I honestly dont want to fiddle around worrying about making dinner in a video game when Im getting on a video game to relax after having to do so in real life.
If I want to care about food at all it would only be because it offers a potential benefit or buff.
I dont want to be forced to perform mundane life chores in a video game. Keep that for the survival games. Theres a whole genre for it.
Yeah, I'm fine with food giving temporary buffs of various kinds, but I'd rather not have to keep it in my inventory or risk my character "starving". Food one can sit down to eat to increase regen of HP/mana/whatever? Sure. Food that gives a stat buff? Excellent. Some whacko cuisine that puts you in a berserker rage or lets you walk on water? Sign me up.
Raidil said: My thought is this gives reason for a trade skill and will help economy if u can only get stuff that won't last as long as u age in levels your toon gets stronger your hunger grows so you need better cooked food witch is only player made it is just sits in inventory there is no mundane stuff. Maybe super hard to make stuff gives stats or buffs but if bread water porridge is only good for up to like fifth level before you start needing to use a lot more of it that means some trade skill will come in very handy. Trade skills where a a big deal in early eq I'm hopeful that they will in pan as well. This thought would make ingredients for food more thin trash look or vendor junk
Im not criticizing your idea Raidil. It is a good one and understand how it can operate as a sink. I would just rather food be a sink I choose because of its potential benefit and not forced into because of potential harm.
Thats just me though.
Without giving an opinion here - I do suggest that there is a certain synergy here between a decision on whether to force us to micromanage food and drink, and a decision on whether to force us to micromanage supplies of arrows and bolts, and a decision on whether to force us to micromanage a very limited number of inventory slots, and a decision on whether to foce us to micromanage for weight and encumbrance etc. I use the term synergy more with negative than positive consequences in mind, which may not be quite the correct use of the word.
Any one of these things may be a good suggestion. But the more of them VR applies the more Pantheon becomes a strategy game of managing resources rather than a high fantasy MMO.
So if VR intends to adopt *any* of these approaches they should carefully consider the overall gestalt and consider whether the cumulative amount of resource micromanagement has gotten excessive.
dorotea said:Without giving an opinion here - I do suggest that there is a certain synergy here between a decision on whether to force us to micromanage food and drink, and a decision on whether to force us to micromanage supplies of arrows and bolts, and a decision on whether to force us to micromanage a very limited number of inventory slots, and a decision on whether to foce us to micromanage for weight and encumbrance etc. I use the term synergy more with negative than positive consequences in mind, which may not be quite the correct use of the word.
Any one of these things may be a good suggestion. But the more of them VR applies the more Pantheon becomes a strategy game of managing resources rather than a high fantasy MMO.
So if VR intends to adopt *any* of these approaches they should carefully consider the overall gestalt and consider whether the cumulative amount of resource micromanagement has gotten excessive.
manual drive = expression
besides strategic depth is what makes a game interesting.
Raidil said: Resource Management has always been part of high fantasy look at old school d&d and ultima online. Even wow . Ever quest ddo even has such. Part of growing your toon is gaining bags buy fighting for. No one said you had to cook u can get some one else to and just buy eq had fletching to make arrows . All this stuff can make a market now depending on how they do it the could do stacks of 10,20,50,100,1000 so you may loose 2 slot for food. And if you uses range you loose 1 for arrows or more depending. But what this could do so make it so there is a market to buy and sell and it makes coin found a needed resource.
Exactly!
When we take away all those concepts of game play, we end up with an action/arcade game, not a cRPG or rather an MMORPG. Then again, most MMOs these days are less RPG and really just multiplayer arcade games.
I like the OP's idea. Not that simple food and water would suffice, just that at higher levels you would need more of it to get he same benefit. However if you had higher level food, you would need less of it to sustain your equilibrium or get a benefit and if I understand correctly crafted stuff at whatever level would be better in that it lasted longer and maybe provided some benefit. Mages can already summon a tables worth of food so that might be nice in a pinch.
So you would stock up before you went out. if you had a really good session and ran out that would be an issue. If someone had minor brewing or baking ability perhaps they could scrounge or harvest? scavenger? something in the area and mash together some slop that would suffice and maybe have a hidden benefit balanced by a detriment that is unique because of the ingredients found in that dungeon or area.
Raidil said: Resource Management has always been part of high fantasy look at old school d&d and ultima online. Even wow . Ever quest ddo even has such. Part of growing your toon is gaining bags buy fighting for. No one said you had to cook u can get some one else to and just buy eq had fletching to make arrows . All this stuff can make a market now depending on how they do it the could do stacks of 10,20,50,100,1000 so you may loose 2 slot for food. And if you uses range you loose 1 for arrows or more depending. But what this could do so make it so there is a market to buy and sell and it makes coin found a needed resource.
I get it. I understand resource management and agree that it should be in to an extent. I make the comment about cooking dinner because I am a smart@ss. I can grasp how having food will benefit my health and mana regeneration, thats sort of common. Having the food and water then proves a benefit because it is essentially a health and mana regen buff.
Now, if I dont have food and water and it stops shop because Im losing health and mana and gets into all the survival aspects of needing it I am just not personally excited about it. I like your idea, but like it better in the context that having the food and drink sink is focused on the benefits of having it as opposed to the detrimental effects of not having it. If I run out of food and drink while deep in a dungeon I would rather the impact is on the hit to health and mana regen then have to say "ok..sessions over" because I need to go cook dinner or I'm going to drain the healer of mana having to heal me up from hunger.
And I know...you should have thought about it in advance and its irresponsible not to have gone shopping and prepare dinner before the fight and been prepared to eat and drink for X hours, but thats still my feeling on it. Again, not bashing the idea, just like the idea in a slightly different context.
((Resource Management has always been part of high fantasy look at old school d&d and ultima online. ))
Of course. And many fantasy crpgs long before Ultima Online had management of food, water, arrows etc. And strict - even draconion - rules relating to inventory, weight and encumbrance.
I wasn't disagreeing with the OP here - and I already opined that arrows and bolts and the like should not be infinite. My only point was that the various areas of micromanagement add up and VR needs to keep an eye on how much of the game turns into resource management rather than looking at each suggestion on its own and perhaps saying "that sounds reasonable" each time.
Dissolution said:Raidil said: Resource Management has always been part of high fantasy look at old school d&d and ultima online. Even wow . Ever quest ddo even has such. Part of growing your toon is gaining bags buy fighting for. No one said you had to cook u can get some one else to and just buy eq had fletching to make arrows . All this stuff can make a market now depending on how they do it the could do stacks of 10,20,50,100,1000 so you may loose 2 slot for food. And if you uses range you loose 1 for arrows or more depending. But what this could do so make it so there is a market to buy and sell and it makes coin found a needed resource.I get it. I understand resource management and agree that it should be in to an extent. I make the comment about cooking dinner because I am a smart@ss. I can grasp how having food will benefit my health and mana regeneration, thats sort of common. Having the food and water then proves a benefit because it is essentially a health and mana regen buff.
Now, if I dont have food and water and it stops shop because Im losing health and mana and gets into all the survival aspects of needing it I am just not personally excited about it. I like your idea, but like it better in the context that having the food and drink sink is focused on the benefits of having it as opposed to the detrimental effects of not having it. If I run out of food and drink while deep in a dungeon I would rather the impact is on the hit to health and mana regen then have to say "ok..sessions over" because I need to go cook dinner or I'm going to drain the healer of mana having to heal me up from hunger.
And I know...you should have thought about it in advance and its irresponsible not to have gone shopping and prepare dinner before the fight and been prepared to eat and drink for X hours, but thats still my feeling on it. Again, not bashing the idea, just like the idea in a slightly different context.
Of the different positions here I see food/water as:
1: Buff when used
2: normal state when used
3: debuff when not used.
WE see 1) a lot in modern MMOs. Food/water is not required, it is a buff, an enhancer to the system. Players regen HP and Mana regardless and the food/water is used as a means to fast track the down time.
With 2) this was more EQ like. Food /Water is not "required" in that it won't kill you if you don't have it, but... it will cause base regens to go to a zero state. That is, while being fed/hydrated a players HP/Mana will come back while sitting/resting slowly over time, however if the player goes into a hunger/thrist state that basic regen is lost and the player will no longer gain HP/Mana back when resting. So... a caster who ignores having water will eventually not be able to regen mana (unless they have a special item like Flowing thought) and all players who do not have food will have to be healed as they will not gain back HP over time either.
Finally 3) which is the "survival game" debuff style. A player must eat/drink or they will not only have stats/abilities which will degrade, but they will eventually die from lack of food/water.
Of the three, I prefer 2) due to its focus and balance. I have played surivival games before and I do see merit in those food systems, but they really are a different focus and style of play in the game. Could 3) work in an MMO today? Sure... I think it could, but... it "may" be taking too much focus off of the over all system by having it. I think it would be interesting to try though, to see how much of a problem it causes in game play. It may be a nice obstacle, or it may be so much that players focus on it to greatly.
I think that is why they picked 2) for EQ as it had a balance in play as a required element to succeed, but not an absolute one (ie oops, forgot food... you die, corpse run). It might be too much of an obstacle in play.
As for 1) I really don't like the "Buff" fast forward style of system that I see in games like WoW. I like obstacles, balance properly, but obstacles, not a bonus for everything I do.
Yeah its Bo again i would not mind if food and water was removed . If its not bring bakc the Potion belts we had in EQ so we can free up the top two slots in inventory . Two slots always having to be the top two for food and yes water . This could be a fix we can all live with . Open two more bag slots put food and water on tool bar /hot keys
Thanks again all for your time Bo Till next time take care of each other and be safe /smiles