Psytek said:Might just be my general ignorance/lack of experience of such games, but the lack of instancing concerns me a little. Clearly it's fine when there is just the dev group running around, but I'm not sure what it would be like with a dungeon crammed with everyone and their mother pulling mobs hither and thither.
Instead of giving you a useless smart ass response... I'll actually provide you with some information.
Typically in EQ you would portion off areas of the zone and claim them as a "camp". So imagine a castle with various floors, and my group claimed the basement. Most people would respect this, so all mobs and named monsters that spawn in the basement would be ours (to a certain degree).
Now obviously not everyone follows the same implied community rules, but for the most part you werent fighting with 5 other groups for the same mobs.
So on a normal day, you would walk in to halnir cave with a group and call a "camp check". People would respond telling you where they were, and if there was an available area, you would take that.
Noone knows how pantheon will work, the community will be made up of many different people coming from many different games. Some games openly welcomed contesting mobs between groups, especially named mobs. It will be up to the community on each server to decide what rules they will implement and how they might be able to enforce them.
Kittik said:I'm most impressed with what Joppa said at the beginning. They are sticking to their guns and making it a group centric class co-dependant game. Good job guys. I'm also thrilled to see the progress has been forward progress and not sideways (meaning they are still going the direction the first aimed for).
Agreed +1 ! That's really important to me as well.
I am not sold by the banners. I like the concept for sure but it seems there are just so strong (all of them provide a buff and a debuff, some of them area buff and debuff). Four banners on the ground at the same time per each Warrior seems like a lot. I would rather it be limited to 1. Think about 2 warriors in the same ground placing 4 banners each in a dungeon for each long fight, they do look nice but it is still so much clutter.
Joppa's hammer looked awesome!
Porygon said:Psytek said:Might just be my general ignorance/lack of experience of such games, but the lack of instancing concerns me a little. Clearly it's fine when there is just the dev group running around, but I'm not sure what it would be like with a dungeon crammed with everyone and their mother pulling mobs hither and thither.
Instead of giving you a useless smart ass response... I'll actually provide you with some information.
...
Firstly, thankyou for taking the time to relate your experience of how the system works in other games. At the moment I'm trying to balance what I see as the positives and negatives to determine whether to increase my level of investment in this game or just walk away. It's information like this that is very helpful, not only as a direct response to a concern I have raised, but also as an indicator of the general level of the attitude of the community (which is also something that will factor into my decision) - and in that regard, you are absolutely correct - elitist smart-ass drivel does not help in the slightest.
Is no one going to mention the last image we saw on stream?
Very clever VR team, letting him open that and then just saying your goodbyes.
I can't wait to find out what that image is about, but I did get really excited when a few people mentioned their own theories in the chat: new dungeon boss, or maybe he's a raid boss. My dear old dad practically squealed like a fan girl at the thought of it being a raid boss. "That would be the coolest first raid boss to encounter", he said.
My observation from stream: People got up in arms at the announcement over VR not showing anything "new," and took that to mean development was delayed or stagnant. But, it was very clear from the stream itself that the game has come a long way in polish since the last stream. Hopefully that is indicative of the overall progress being made in the push to Alpha. It would have been fine to see that, even without the extras at the end.
Great work, playing Pantheon is getting ever closer to becoming reality!
Ithaca said:Kittik said:I'm most impressed with what Joppa said at the beginning. They are sticking to their guns and making it a group centric class co-dependant game. Good job guys. I'm also thrilled to see the progress has been forward progress and not sideways (meaning they are still going the direction the first aimed for).
Agreed +1 ! That's really important to me as well.
I am not sold by the banners. I like the concept for sure but it seems there are just so strong (all of them provide a buff and a debuff, some of them area buff and debuff). Four banners on the ground at the same time per each Warrior seems like a lot. I would rather it be limited to 1. Think about 2 warriors in the same ground placing 4 banners each in a dungeon for each long fight, they do look nice but it is still so much clutter.
Joppa's hammer looked awesome!
iirc, each Warrior in a group can only have one banner up at a time.
On the topic of instancing.
Almost none of us want a lot of instancing. Porygon gave a good summary of how things worked back in "the day" although as pointed out this was by general community agreement and was not required by the game's own code of conduct. The concept of "camps" was a community matter - under the code of conduct no one "owned" an area just because they were there first. The Pantheon community will have many of us that were playing MMOs in the old days but also many that were *not* and there can be no assurance that community standards will - or *should* - be the same as those that communities accepted 20 years ago.
Some of us want no instancing at all and view any instancing as a threat to the core principles of the game. Some of us do want some instancing and view the importance of groups and socialization as critical to Pantheon but do not view competition between players for resources (including mobs) as critical. The debates between the "no instances at all" camp and the "not many instances but have a few where they make sense" camp can get heated but VR has indicated that current thinking is not to have any instances.
I am trying to summarize without giving any opinion of my own because this is definitely not a thread where we should debate that issue again.
I noticed they where around 5 levels above the content which made it seam like they where cruising through the content without much struggle. However I did also notice Cohh almost died on the final boss at one point, so even being 5 levels above the boss it was still posing a challenge.They had fairly good gear on as well compaired to what we've seen in the past most of the gear had stats on them.
Really not a fan of the concept of bards in plate. It doesn't fit the archetype at all, and I think it's a really silly idea when Dire Lords are somehow limited to chain but an instrument-playing class is wearing plate armor? There's a lot of incongruity in that design choice. Personally I think even full chain is too much for bards, but I think a mix of chain/leather/cloth is the way to go for bards (primarily chain chest and leather/cloth for everything else).
Raidil said: As I plan on playing an dire Lord I have concerns when I here that the warriors will be the mega tank in both dps and defence that Joppa said they are... Make it even more concerned about the dire Lord not having heavy plate so not only will there tanking not be as good as a war there also not going to be the dose tank.. Soo for sounding like the dire Lord's going to be the eq ranger of eq the one class no one wants in group. Sigh. But I did like some of what I seen and I have speculation that the last pic we seen was a raid boss and the lighting and splash is all for that raid event
I recall VR saying all three tanks were going to be equally viable for the MT role. However, the tanks will accomplish this by utilizing different strategies. Separate encounters would highlight strengths/weakness between the three. They are trying to avoid a scenario where a warrior is the only option for a solid efficient group.
Psytek said:
Firstly, thankyou for taking the time to relate your experience of how the system works in other games. At the moment I'm trying to balance what I see as the positives and negatives to determine whether to increase my level of investment in this game or just walk away. It's information like this that is very helpful, not only as a direct response to a concern I have raised, but also as an indicator of the general level of the attitude of the community (which is also something that will factor into my decision) - and in that regard, you are absolutely correct - elitist smart-ass drivel does not help in the slightest.
I would advocate doing some research on this game prior to questioning one of the most important, if not the most important, design aspect of it. I would strongly recommend going and watching the numerous videos on Youtube about EverQuest or search the forums for how open world dungeons work. I wouldn't call my comment elitist, but it was def smart-ass. So I'm not above apologizing. Sorry for coming off so rude.
WarKnight said:Raidil said: As I plan on playing an dire Lord I have concerns when I here that the warriors will be the mega tank in both dps and defence that Joppa said they are... Make it even more concerned about the dire Lord not having heavy plate so not only will there tanking not be as good as a war there also not going to be the dose tank.. Soo for sounding like the dire Lord's going to be the eq ranger of eq the one class no one wants in group. Sigh. But I did like some of what I seen and I have speculation that the last pic we seen was a raid boss and the lighting and splash is all for that raid event
I recall VR saying all three tanks were going to be equally viable for the MT role. However, the tanks will accomplish this by utilizing different strategies. Separate encounters would highlight strengths/weakness between the three. They are trying to avoid a scenario where a warrior is the only option for a solid efficient group.
You are correct.
EppE said:I would advocate doing some research on this game prior to questioning one of the most important, if not the most important, design aspect of it. I would strongly recommend going and watching the numerous videos on Youtube about EverQuest or search the forums for how open world dungeons work. I wouldn't call my comment elitist, but it was def smart-ass. So I'm not above apologizing. Sorry for coming off so rude.
I was wondering why you were apologizing, but my brain has finally cranked into gear and I have just realised that your original remark was actually pure sarcasm. Unfortunately, as somebody who is what is colloquially known as 'being on the spectrum', such things are invariably wasted on me. Thankyou for your additional advice, and enjoy your time in Pantheon when it drops. I think I know enough now to say it is unlikely that we will meet in the game.
Darch said:I posted in Kilsin's stream post... but some cool observations I made were that the Heavy Plate glove Cohh picked up said "Cleric, Warrior, Paladin, Bard" so it looks like the Bard will wear heavy armor. (And Cohh's longsword was useable by Wizard)
You said my favorite 4 letter word. Bard.
So do we know if bards are going to be released at launch or are we still sure they will be in game just not when? Being listed as a class on the armor got me all excited and stuff.
2 classes I want to play the most are bard and necromancer and those 2 seem like they may not be at launch lmao.
Psytek said:EppE said:I would advocate doing some research on this game prior to questioning one of the most important, if not the most important, design aspect of it. I would strongly recommend going and watching the numerous videos on Youtube about EverQuest or search the forums for how open world dungeons work. I wouldn't call my comment elitist, but it was def smart-ass. So I'm not above apologizing. Sorry for coming off so rude.
I was wondering why you were apologizing, but my brain has finally cranked into gear and I have just realised that your original remark was actually pure sarcasm. Unfortunately, as somebody who is what is colloquially known as 'being on the spectrum', such things are invariably wasted on me. Thankyou for your additional advice, and enjoy your time in Pantheon when it drops. I think I know enough now to say it is unlikely that we will meet in the game.
Everyone is on the spectrum don't worry, that's why it's called a spectrum. :)
I honestly think people accepting that Pantheon may not be the game for them is one of the best, and healtiest things they can do. That being said I really think the social apsect of games like EQ are over looked. Very few people raided, very few people actually made it to max level. There were more "casuals" than anything else in EQ and catering to the raiders was eventually its down fall. That is coming from someone who was a raider.
EQ was great because of its community, and like VR has said, community matters. If people want a game that will likely allow them to develop strong social bonds with people this is the game for them.
I don't know if I'll have enough time to play Pantheon when it launches, but until I know that here I am, posting away during the slow periods at work.
Dissolution said:Darch said:I posted in Kilsin's stream post... but some cool observations I made were that the Heavy Plate glove Cohh picked up said "Cleric, Warrior, Paladin, Bard" so it looks like the Bard will wear heavy armor. (And Cohh's longsword was useable by Wizard)
You said my favorite 4 letter word. Bard.
So do we know if bards are going to be released at launch or are we still sure they will be in game just not when? Being listed as a class on the armor got me all excited and stuff.
2 classes I want to play the most are bard and necromancer and those 2 seem like they may not be at launch lmao.
Seeing items with "bard" on it has let me assume it's the unoffical annoucement Bard will make launch.
fancy said:Is no one going to mention the last image we saw on stream?
Very clever VR team, letting him open that and then just saying your goodbyes.
I can't wait to find out what that image is about, but I did get really excited when a few people mentioned their own theories in the chat: new dungeon boss, or maybe he's a raid boss. My dear old dad practically squealed like a fan girl at the thought of it being a raid boss. "That would be the coolest first raid boss to encounter", he said.
I will - The concept art was called "Sleepless-Concept.jpg. Looks really cool Looks like telepathic lighting around the head. Very much not your typical high fantasy creature. Whatever type of atmosphere it will envoke, it will be cool. Maybe I will need rubber coated armor. I don't think thats a raid boss, it could be just a minion.
fancy said:Is no one going to mention the last image we saw on stream?
Very clever VR team, letting him open that and then just saying your goodbyes.
I can't wait to find out what that image is about, but I did get really excited when a few people mentioned their own theories in the chat: new dungeon boss, or maybe he's a raid boss. My dear old dad practically squealed like a fan girl at the thought of it being a raid boss. "That would be the coolest first raid boss to encounter", he said.
Ha, yeah, I almost forgot about that. :P I was noticing the lightning around the feet and head of the boss (guess I'm assuming it's a boss) and thinking that all three elements they showed (the lightning strike, flash-frozen red liquid, and the boss) might be elements from the same encounter. Perhaps the boss causes the lightning strikes, which then freeze the red liquid, which then creates some other mechanic in the fight. Super cool, whatever it is! :)
I was really happy to terms like "class interdependacy". "Slower a paced dungeon crawl, not a Dungeon Sprint". Glad to hear things like "no instancing". I like seeing the atmosphere affect in effect. Climbing should be cool. AFK people being hit by lighting would be funny...lol. I even enjoyed seeing the periodic "Corpse" name tags, which was either a bug, or some way to reset an encounter or something, but aleast I saw the word "corpses", it warms my heart.
It sounds like the Devs know what kind of the game they are making. I can imagine quite a bit of immersiveness. I was happy to hear how important it is for players to feel a strong connection to their characters. I confident that the worst of the mainstream ideas will not have an effect on their decision making.
Grymmlocke said:iirc, each Warrior in a group can only have one banner up at a time.
I will rewatch the stream and read again the warrior abilities. I am pretty sure I saw multiple banners being used at the same time. Perhaps there is a delay when a banner is summoned while another one is active?!
Ithaca said:Grymmlocke said:iirc, each Warrior in a group can only have one banner up at a time.
I will rewatch the stream and read again the warrior abilities. I am pretty sure I saw multiple banners being used at the same time. Perhaps there is a delay when a banner is summoned while another one is active?!
They said at max level the Warrior could have 4 banners up at a time. They appear to operate in a similar manner as Totems did in Vanilla WoW or atleast that's how I envision them.
Dissolution said:Darch said:I posted in Kilsin's stream post... but some cool observations I made were that the Heavy Plate glove Cohh picked up said "Cleric, Warrior, Paladin, Bard" so it looks like the Bard will wear heavy armor. (And Cohh's longsword was useable by Wizard)
You said my favorite 4 letter word. Bard.
So do we know if bards are going to be released at launch or are we still sure they will be in game just not when? Being listed as a class on the armor got me all excited and stuff.
2 classes I want to play the most are bard and necromancer and those 2 seem like they may not be at launch lmao.
Joppa has mentioned that he is optomistic about having the Bard ready by release. I think A LOT of people's favortie classes are the necro and Bard. (These two and the Mage are currently the highest played classes in Project1999).
EppE said:They said at max level the Warrior could have 4 banners up at a time. They appear to operate in a similar manner as Totems did in Vanilla WoW or atleast that's how I envision them.
I am not a big fan at all. Banners are cool if there are not cluttering the screen. Having currently 4 banners designed, and allowing warriors to use all 4 banners is just weird. Where is the choice they have to make? Expect each warrior to have to use all their banners for each challenging fight.. kinda feel cumbersome no?
I wish Joppa would rethink that, and design more stances for the warrior and have different abilities with short buffs/debuffs. 4 banners for each warrior that is just not good.
Perhaps the idea is that banners will require Resilience to be placed, and that would force Warriors to be mindful of using them since they would want their resilience to be as high as possible?