My thoughts are that master looter is a good option to have - and is better in guild groups than PUGs where it can be much abused.
If items are bind on acquire under no circumstances should the default option be other than need/greed with only characters that can equip the item allowed to roll need.
If items are sellable I would be less emphatic but need/greed is still better as the default option.
I don't see why you couldn't do master looting with Pantheon. I prefer a good ML or NBG system, but in the current MMO climate it probably wouldn't work except with guilds.
The tough part about MLing is if someone has to leave early then you are rolling before there is enough for everyone to get a piece of loot. Then you have to deal with figuring out if someone else joins the group, does that mean you start over with rolling again for everyone, if not people may leave if they have no chance to score another piece of loot. In some cases FFA is better for that since everyone has equal chance, every time.
Normally in pickup groups I do not take any trash loot unless it is left to rot. And in a group with friends I try not to have any loot rules. I am normally very poor in a MMO because I do not like dealing with it. But if I was in a group that had a master looter and at the end I got coin sure would be nice.
I am all for MLing. IF someone need to leave befor the end and was replaces, I would take a item count befor left. He would he then get his share split with the replacement player. Ie 45 items looted for first player with 100 itens total. The gold split would be 45/55% with need going first but only if you stayed to the end of raid. Not, got my item see you later.
I LOVED the old EQ ffa loot system! The abuse made it exciting. Most times, there were no problems, but the exceptions made it memorable. Once, I was playing my rogue and was groupped in Cazic Thule hoping for some Ravenscale. After several hours, a piece dropped and the groups wizard instantly looted it and left the group, gated and didn't respond to tells! The whole group was furious and we all cussed about him the rest of the session after announcing his name and crimes in our guild chats and shouted it to the zone.
Sure it was crummy, but it's a memory I would otherwise not have a story to tell about.
FFA looting is not entirely fair for range type classes as the melee are always closer to the corpses. And then you throw in mana-type range classes that are constantly sitting to gain ticks, we end up racing to the corpse to get SOMETHING. I hate FFA in pugs. It ruins the experience for me.
JimmyEcho said:I played EQ for the first time ever tonight and it took me like half an hour to get my head around that group loot system, never seen anything like it before aha
Yea though I'd be down for that.
Just fyi, that is a very new loot system as far as EQ goes. EQ has changed so much over the years that it is hardly recognizable as the same game that people reference when referring to EQ during its prime.
The new EQ loot system, while it is complicated is actually one of the best looting systems I've ever used. It allows you to permanently set individual items to pass, greed, need etc. The more you actually use it the more customized it becomes to you and your needs.
And while I do not condone designing systems with "what might be a problem" in mind... I also dont like the idea of keeping a system because "negative aspects create excitement".
A modern mmo (wow style) loot system where items are designated to be trash (fffa) or special (rolled) is most likely the best way to handle loot. Giving options of switching loot to master looter for raids and the like.
Not a fan of the original EQ loot system.
I still remember people re-rolling and starting over with a new name just to be 1st in line for loot (on E'Ci the standard was Alpha order for loot in PuG's). People would have the name like: Aaaaabaaaa. Only time I remember a "Master Looter" in PuG's was when it came to coin. The Ogre would normally be carrying most of the coins because the monks did not want the weight. Not that I would call that a Master Looter.
Anyways, I am all for a modern looting system.
Porygon said:The new EQ loot system, while it is complicated is actually one of the best looting systems I've ever used. It allows you to permanently set individual items to pass, greed, need etc. The more you actually use it the more customized it becomes to you and your needs.
And while I do not condone designing systems with "what might be a problem" in mind... I also dont like the idea of keeping a system because "negative aspects create excitement".
A modern mmo (wow style) loot system where items are designated to be trash (fffa) or special (rolled) is most likely the best way to handle loot. Giving options of switching loot to master looter for raids and the like.
I have a strong love/hate relationship with the current EQ loot system. The main issue with it is people, especially if you join different groups, having different standards on what things like Diamonds should be, need or greed. Some of the groups I'm in, it's greed even if you use it for Tradeskills. Some other groups I've joined people put EVERYTHING as need (a concept that has never clicked with me).
The tool does give a ton of power and ease of use once you understand it, from autorolling items, to giving loot items directly to a player without them needing to find the corpse. I do, however, find a negative in the fact you spend so much time staring at a UI window rather than at the world. I think that was one pro of needing to actually look on the corpses of your kills, it keeps a little bit more of the immersive factor.
Matauris said:I have a strong love/hate relationship with the current EQ loot system. The main issue with it is people, especially if you join different groups, having different standards on what things like Diamonds should be, need or greed. Some of the groups I'm in, it's greed even if you use it for Tradeskills. Some other groups I've joined people put EVERYTHING as need (a concept that has never clicked with me).
The tool does give a ton of power and ease of use once you understand it, from autorolling items, to giving loot items directly to a player without them needing to find the corpse. I do, however, find a negative in the fact you spend so much time staring at a UI window rather than at the world. I think that was one pro of needing to actually look on the corpses of your kills, it keeps a little bit more of the immersive factor.
I can definitely see that. Most if my time spent in eq in the last few years has been 6 boxing and grouping with guildees, so I never had to deal with pigs. As a boxing tool it is invaluable.
I think if the game had something like it from the get go you would probably see more uniform loot standards across most players.
NBG works best imo. It would be better if "need" was only allowed for those the game can determine actually need the item. For example, you shouldn't be able to "need" on a weapon if you already have a better one. And you shouldn't be able to "need" tradeskill materials for a skill you don't have on that character. If quest items drop and work like they do in many other modern MMOs you should only be able to roll need for them if you have the quest and still need them. Everything else is just greed even if you have an alt that could use the drop.
Akilae said:NBG works best imo. It would be better if "need" was only allowed for those the game can determine actually need the item. For example, you shouldn't be able to "need" on a weapon if you already have a better one. And you shouldn't be able to "need" tradeskill materials for a skill you don't have on that character. If quest items drop and work like they do in many other modern MMOs you should only be able to roll need for them if you have the quest and still need them. Everything else is just greed even if you have an alt that could use the drop.
I greatly prefer round robin. People will never agree on what qualifies as need, and inspecting someone to check if they "really needed that item" feels super childish. Why bother with all that nonsense when there's an easy, 100% fair, and 100% equitable loot system available in Round Robin. If I get something that you "need" then you're always free to pay me for it or trade for it. Plus, it gives players the choice to be charitable and give the item to another player that might need it IF they feel like it. This rewards people for not being jerks in a group.
No system ever invented bothers me as much as FFA.
Selfish players that stop fighting in the middle of combat to loot are rewarded. Team players are penalized.
Ranged classes are penalized - melee classes are nearest the bodies.
A worse than terrible system.
As for cash - just distribute it evenly to all players.
Akilae said:NBG works best imo. It would be better if "need" was only allowed for those the game can determine actually need the item. For example, you shouldn't be able to "need" on a weapon if you already have a better one. And you shouldn't be able to "need" tradeskill materials for a skill you don't have on that character. If quest items drop and work like they do in many other modern MMOs you should only be able to roll need for them if you have the quest and still need them. Everything else is just greed even if you have an alt that could use the drop.
I agree, for groups with strangers. As well, you should only be able to roll "need" on gear and weapons that match your class.
Master loot (or any other custom loot system folk want to use) is fine, even great, for static groups.
Your rules for needing are completely arbitrary. Why should players only roll on crafting materials that match their character's tradeskill? What if they need those mats to get an item crafted for their current character but an alt or guild member is going to craft it? What about backup items to use for corpse runs?
Need before greed is a dumb system.
zoltar said:Your rules for needing are completely arbitrary. Why should players only roll on crafting materials that match their character's tradeskill? What if they need those mats to get an item crafted for their current character but an alt or guild member is going to craft it? What about backup items to use for corpse runs?
Need before greed is a dumb system.
Nobody keeps backup items for corpse runs. The only time people ever did was when they barely knew how to play the game. This is not a thing.
And round robin is almost just as bad as FFA. I agree limiting items to certain classes or tradeskillers is dumb. But just make a generic nbg system and allow groups and servers to flash out the intricate details.
In classic wow, idc if someone needs a tradeskill item... if it's an item I also need... I will need it also... that's how the system works.
Most people are not aholes and wont go around needing items they dont need. Were literally trying to make something more difficult than it needs to be.
I like EQs loot system. You have to learn to use it, and yes, its interface can get in the way until it has learned your loot preferences. But once that's done, it really is enjoyable to use and something you sorely miss when playing other games.
I hope we won't have to go back to FFA looting. I seriously cringe when I watch the streams and the player has to walk up to and check every corpse. That's WAY too oldschool for my taste!
As for coin: Again, I would hope that we don't have to walk up to each corpse for that. Just split the coin and give it to the group when a mob dies.