I used it a lot in EQ and in Vanguard I just assumed it would be one of the many ways people can kill their foes. I think it is important to note that a lot of the time I used it was not for solo but in small groups or even in large groups as a way to CC an add.
I will also be disappointed if it is not part of the tools given to us.
I always assumed kiting being a competitive form of exp was a mistake in an MMORPG. If someone wants to exp solo that is fine I guess, but it should never be better then a group going to earn exp in a group based game. So I don't mind if the tools are there to be used, but not able to be abused.
I also have not seen these spells as of yet and believe they were exceptionally helpful in groups when something was trying to run away. As root breaks on damage being done to target. I think theres ice spells that slow a targets movement but last a short duration or breaks on damage as well. Speculative but I think thats how they work right now. Snare type spells should definitely be implemented if not already planned IMHO.
Ezrael said:Wizard - Glint
Shaman - Deluge
What we haven't seen yet with these spells is the duration. What good would be a snare for kiting if you had to recast it every few seconds instead of minutes? EQ1 Druid kiting worked so well because the snare lasted quite a long time. Well that and the fact the Druid had SoW.
I'm indifferent to kiting. While yes, it can be used as a form of CC... most classes seem to have some form of hard or soft CC already.
I think if they truly want to create a group oriented game they need to limit the ability of specific classes to truly be solo. Necromancers and Druids were extremely overpowered in this aspect of the game, and it really impacted the other classes.
Porygon said:I'm indifferent to kiting. While yes, it can be used as a form of CC... most classes seem to have some form of hard or soft CC already.
I think if they truly want to create a group oriented game they need to limit the ability of specific classes to truly be solo. Necromancers and Druids were extremely overpowered in this aspect of the game, and it really impacted the other classes.
Agreed. Snare design should be thought of within the context of the utility that it brings the group and have its effects limited outside of that context.
Hokanu said: Didn't they add a feature where DoT damage was reduced if a mob was moving (without fear activated) I thought that was good because I wasn't a huge fan of a open zone being dominated by a few solo kiters. I think kitting should be more of an oh $h!t than a good way to level. Probably not a popular opinion though :)
Yeah I think it was something like 1/2 or 1/3 of damage is the target is moving, and bow damage reduced by 1/2 as well.
It made dot kiting or bow kiting very long, to make up for the easyness. It however, didn't affect nukes which made quad kiting still something.
Sylvanfox said: Kiting was never a effiecient way of leveling. It was a slow grind and required constant attention and timing of spells. The one advantage kiting had was making money depending on the scenario. Kiting is more of a preference just like a class roll is. Some people like to heals other like to dps. Some like to get in a group and speed pull for fact efficient exp other want to chill and spend some time kitting creature around. That’s what I liked about EQ. It was diverse and not every class could do the same thing as the others. Classes were unique and you would see other do something and if you thought it was cool you would roll a alt and gave it a try.
The first part I bolded is the majority of it, let's be honest. The second part I bolded is like 5% of it, the other 95% is solo players wanting to be able to farm group-oriented mobs for drops they don't have to share or roll against 5 other players for. We're all familiar with that feeling of finally making our way to a boss or named mob to find a Necro farming it only to sell the items. I really don't think that's good class design for a game that's being made with an emphasis on the group experience. Snares/roots should be designed for their use within a group context first and foremost. Their capacity for solo efficacy should be limited, and certainly not powerful enough for a single class to kill mobs designed for a group.
Capturing the essence of EQ ≠ importing things that are bad class design "just because EQ did it." No one is asking for class parity, nor for the game to be fair. You're at best making assumptions, and at worst straw-manning others' arguments. Despite not wanting class parity nor desiring the game to be completely fair, there is however a range in which you want to keep the disparity between classes. What's being argued here is that classes being able to solo farm group content isn't good design and isn't justifiable based on the premise that "EQ did it!" or that "Well, the game shouldn't be fair because having differences in classes is good." Yes, having class differences is good but it is also absolutely possible to capture the benefits of some of the points of class disparity that you've brought up without going so far as to allowing certain classes to solo group content.
Kiting should be allowed, exploiting should not. If snares exist, they should be able to be used. I think rather than penalize a class for having a spell, I'd rather see improved Mob AI that instead of following you aimlessly if they were snared, that they'd alert the camp etc. I hope that's where some of the Pantheon Difference features could come in such as Mob dispositions, etc.
@Sicario
If you want group interdependence, all classes can't solo equally or as well. If they can, you will have a WoW-like game as everyone would be able to solo as efficiently. And, again, see above to assist with making it difficult to solo group content - improve mob AI, don't nerf or homogenize classes.
And, even in EQ, "most' classes either with the right gear or spells could return to an area when it was trivialized and solo ok. Only a rogue/warrior really couldn't solo anything (and even they could with a Fungi and the right weapons). So, to counter your statement, I don't think EQ had bad class design - could some aspects have been improved - sure, warriors should have had more than Taunt/Slam/Bash/Kick etc. but how they designed classes to make classes dependent on each other was brilliant, even if it was accidental.
Looking at how very few spells that allow kiting there are, and just how very short their durations are, plus the devs very obvious dislike of solo players (playstyle, not the people though they may be one and the same), don't expect much on this front. Which is a shame, because it is nice to have things you can do when you can't/don't want to group, and don't like tradeskills.
Though I will say I don't necessarily disagree with improving AI to make mobs less dumb, especially in lieu that terrible mechanic they used in EQ (most mobs over 50 could summon the player). But I do think just giving every mob a ranged attack would be equally dumb, especially on dumber mob types and areas that would not reasonably have things to throw at someone (for humanoids, beaches don't have a ton of rocks... not all have ranged attacks, also infinite ammo)
