Naunet said:Zorkon said:My question to you all, Is it really that game breaking or OP if the second time around a full group of first generation Progenies can do this 6 group content with a group of 5 or 4, Or even if a single 6 generation Progeny can now solo this group content? If a player is 6th generation that could be considered the equivalent of a level 300 (6 times he’s made it 50 levels) , he SHOULD be pretty OP .Lower level Dungeons could be added during expansion that would simply not be manageable by groups with less than multiple generation players (for example a dungeon is tuned for not a group of 6 level 20’s players, but a group of 6 level 20”s with a total of 10 generations, 6 first generation level 20 chars would get owned, but if they had 5 first gen’s and one 5th generation character with them they might make it.
I think this is getting dangerously close and probably crossing the line of making participating in the Progeny system mandatory.
I would prefer the progeny system not provide any power benefits to any character and instead provide only cosmetic achievements.
For some your most likely correct. And I understand that point of view. But for me I see it optional. If you choose to remain a first Gen level 50 you could. The way i see it mandatory wold be once you experienced through level 50 you would automatically ding back to lvl 1. THATS mandatory. A person would consider it mandatory if they want to be the best on the server or something of that nature. And the only way to do that would be to be max level/ max generational. For me, it's mandatory when I'm having a blast at level 40 and they force me to ding 41 making the content I was so much enjoying trivial and forcing me to move on.
Is it any more mandatory for you than the 10 levels they add at the expansion? Or the next 10 or the next? It's well known that this vertical progression separates the player base and in time makes it near impossible for a new player (in a few years) to find a group and catch up with players 100 levels above them. (Insert hand holding, trivialized content and a cash shop with $20 level 85 player boost here)
The system I'm pointing out (as out of the box and possibly unrealistic as it may be) is extremely Hora zonal Progression, and would keep the player levels bunched together.
LOTS of problems with what I've been describing, that may or may not be able to be worked out. But there are lots of known problems with vertical progression as well.
Keep in mind I would be surprised if VR is going this way. But maybe they are somewhere in between.
philo said:Naunet said:I would prefer the progeny system not provide any power benefits to any character and instead provide only cosmetic achievements.
Most people wouldn't consider that incentive enough to go through the leveling process again.
I belive just cosmetic items and Progeny would flop. Very few would go that route. I know at least I wouldn't.
I would think it could be something in between.
Gate, Root, FD, some Buffs, etc
Why do we always have to debate levels or max levels . This has been the same old boring norm in MMO's since their inception. You want to make a different game a truly ground breaking game and not vary from youre vision then do something different than just levels or restrictions on what you can do, or use, or wear.
If you want to walk into a high end dungeon and you are not prepared for it its much better to find that out via trial and error rather than have a damn level attached to it or a message that says "you are not high enough to enter this dungeon".
The game needs an element of surprise and player intelligence, not hand holding. There are numerous ways to advance characters without attaching a number too them or a number to a dungeon or a number to a craft. If you want to advance a skill, use the damn skill. if you have a high end item luckily fall into your lap when you are a low end character then so be it. Dump the "no drop" or level restricted crap and let the game be open with no restrictions. If you are a low end charcater and save up to buy a higher end weapon so be it. The days of holding the MMOer's hands and guiding them through a game should be over and that will be truly ground breaking. Worrying about levels is just the same old thing.
Open up the game and give players the freedom to find out when they can advance to certain areas and what skills they might need to succeed. Im sure some of the things I mentioned may very well be in development but the over all idea of my post is NO RESTRICTIONS let players find their own way and not have to rely on a number or a "DINGGGGGG" to make them happy. I would much rather the world itself talk to me and I will make the decision as to when I can finally move forward in various phases of the game. Who knows maybe I can get lucky and run with a higher end group and have some drops I would not normally get that would be exciting if of course the group approves ...if not they send me on my way.
Freedom and adventuring is the key to a good MMO hand holding is old news.
Wudanar said:We keep low levels or inexperienced out of zones by requiring flags. Why have we never thought of doing the opposite. By preventing high levels from engaging certain mobs. Of course a method of shrouding down would need to be provided so that quests can still be done.
This has been discussed. There will be gates on certain encounters that will come up if players are much higher lvl ...or a greater number...than the encounter was intended for.
The examples we have been given are that if the players are slightly overpowered for the encounter the boss might call friends to help it. If they are extremely over powered the boss might run away, aka despawn.
The mentor system will allow players to temporarily delevel and should allow players to circumvent some of these issues.
It's a creative way to get around trivial loot code.