The stream was boring wish I had not wasted my time seeing it.
They should have logged in sooner not to talk to the subscribers, but to understand the class they were playing, their spells and their role in the group, maybe even do a few pulls before starting the stream. I was hoping to see new stuff in the zone like it was advertized and all I saw was constant wiping on low lvl stuff and they couldn't even kill the named mob the right way.
Would have just been better to make 4 different streams with one streamer, joppa and prealpha testers so they could atleast carry them to see new stuff.
This is just my opinion and a suggestion to make stuff more doable and more interesting for new people looking at the game to exite them, like Cohh's stream was. If I had joined a pug group like that i woulda quit it long ago and look for a more viable group.
Opposite opinion: I liked watching "newbs" playing the game, learning the ropes, testing out their limits and learning to work together. It just made me more excited for my turn to play. Watching a mostly-Dev team is well and good, but watching my peers stumble, learn, and almost conquer was highly entertaining and relevent. Personally, fighting an orange-con boss like that, I would have suggested going out and levelling up and trying her at a yellow or white con for a more balanced chance. Or maybe another healer. ;)
Watching people who never really played EverQuest get wrecked two mobs in is priceless. It shows that there is a severe disadvantage people will have by trying to steamroll content by not using CC or just plain pulling too much. It's a nice change of pace from the solo friendly games that came out in recent years in the genre. Plus, these guys didn't really have time to "learn" their class before being thrown into the fire. If I joined a group like that, ESPECIALLY at that level, I would probably leave it too, but i would also ask how they reached that level without learning their classes. They did get better as time went on however. I think i heard Joppa explicitly say they don't want to reveal new areas either until they're completely satisfied with them.
This game isn't intended to be a so-called WoW killer, it's a specific niche game that promotes an interactive community and working together to overcome obstacles. If you don't like it, that's cool, you're entitled to your own opinion. If you do like it, cool! keep following the development of it and if you want to you can pledge (donate) to the game and get in-game items when it launches.
I thought it was funny and a good watch, but I can understand the OP's view. If I were wanting to see progress through new content/new reveals, I'd probably find the stream boring.
That said, I thought it demonstrated very well what Pantheon is about. Now seriously considering Enchanter as my thing, but who knows with the caster reveals on the horizon :D
I'm not expecting them to be experts but I do have to question someones mmo experience when they don't understand something as basic as what conning a mob is. Similar to how, in one of the older streams, the streamer didn't realize that sitting would regen mana faster and they tried to click on water when they were oom.
It seems like there needs to be a better screening process in order to show off the game a bit better.
I would definitely prefer if all the streamers (not just today) were more familiar with their characters but I'll take what I can get.
Orchard said:Watching people who never really played EverQuest get wrecked two mobs in is priceless. It shows that there is a severe disadvantage people will have by trying to steamroll content by not using CC or just plain pulling too much. It's a nice change of pace from the solo friendly games that came out in recent years in the genre. Plus, these guys didn't really have time to "learn" their class before being thrown into the fire. If I joined a group like that, ESPECIALLY at that level, I would probably leave it too, but i would also ask how they reached that level without learning their classes. They did get better as time went on however. I think i heard Joppa explicitly say they don't want to reveal new areas either until they're completely satisfied with them.
This game isn't intended to be a so-called WoW killer, it's a specific niche game that promotes an interactive community and working together to overcome obstacles. If you don't like it, that's cool, you're entitled to your own opinion. If you do like it, cool! keep following the development of it and if you want to you can pledge (donate) to the game and get in-game items when it launches.
On the showing side on Cohh's stream, they said they were gonna go a deeper into Black Rose Keep today which was not really possible.
The leaning part you are absolutely right which is in my opinion on they should have had 10-20 min before stream to get more or less an initial view of what they were gonna play.
I didnt say I wanted them to steamroll content either I dont mind wipes just not that many for a "showing" of a game, also the essential part of what the enchanter, bard and cc spells represent for the group is a mega plus for me.
I don't even know why the WoW killer came into topic. Never even played WoW I didnt like the animation design too cartoony for me. I've been an EQ freak since 2002 be it 1/2/eqoa. Played a lil ESO which was a huge dissapointment for me.
I am all for community best community a game has ever had is the EQOA community and i want that to be in the game, which is why I dont mind teaching people how to play when they are noobs but 1 or 2 noobs should be the limit in a showing group which will give a relative balance over deaths in the stream, again for a game you are trying to get motivated for and to attract new people to it. Essentially we are all noobs anyways wejust have prior mmorpg experience which gives us a tiny boost for the great and rewarding way im seeing combat with whatever class you choose to play will be.
I don't want this game to just have the old players that love this genre of mmorpg i want lots and lots of people that didnt know about it or the game was too old for them to get interested to jump on the Pantheon ship and join us in what i beleive will be a long road of challenges and fun. Which is also why I pledged for it years ago.
My point is with a 10-20 min tutorial before the stream they could have worked like they did, at lil more than mid stream, from the beginning of the stream would still have wipes but it would have made viewers enjoy it more. Im extremely sure that they as a group had a blast. I wish with all my heart it had been me playing but I won't get to it till alpha(cries).
Love you all dont get mad at me plz.
philo said:I'm not expecting them to be experts but I do have to question someones mmo experience when they don't understand something as basic as what conning a mob is. Similar to how, in one of the older streams, the streamer didn't realize that sitting would regen mana faster and they tried to click on water when they were oom.
It seems like there needs to be a better screening process in order to show off the game a bit better.
I would definitely prefer if all the streamers (not just today) were more familiar with their characters but I'll take what I can get.
In what games do you need to con mobs? (Most have levels displayed) and in what games do you need to sit down to regen mana?
Eq1 was 20 years ago. And most of the modern mmos dont have these mechanics.
Was a joy to watch and learn from them as they got in there and had a blast learning to play Pantheon! Can't wait to see more!
Thank you to all the community who came out in support as well. You all continue to blow me away with how amazing you are and supportive you all are of Pantheon. Couldn't ask for a better community to be a part of while we all wait patiently for Pantheon's doors to open!
Servirus said:The stream was boring wish I had not wasted my time seeing it.
They should have logged in sooner not to talk to the subscribers, but to understand the class they were playing, their spells and their role in the group, maybe even do a few pulls before starting the stream. I was hoping to see new stuff in the zone like it was advertized and all I saw was constant wiping on low lvl stuff and they couldn't even kill the named mob the right way.
Would have just been better to make 4 different streams with one streamer, joppa and prealpha testers so they could atleast carry them to see new stuff.
This is just my opinion and a suggestion to make stuff more doable and more interesting for new people looking at the game to exite them, like Cohh's stream was. If I had joined a pug group like that i woulda quit it long ago and look for a more viable group.
I dont understand. You're mad that developers are trying to show the game off to an audience that has little to no experience with old mechanics and slower pace requiring to adapt and shift from pulling 20 mobs to 3? I dont remember them projecting that todays stream would reveal a new area only that on Cohh's stream it was reserved for today, it wasn't some crazy reveal.
It's this kind of attitude that drives new players away from the game, we forget that even though we 'invested' into the game, we still want new players to stay and it starts with us and our attitude towards them. The whole point of Pantheon and its selling point is that it is supposed to be challenging, whats more challenging then a bunch of new players trying to CHANGE their normal play style for the past decade of their MMO experience? It was clearly displayed that the game is not some cakewalk and was fun seeing them wipe and progress and get better. Would giving them 20 minutes to learn their abilities and grab a few pulls make the stream more enjoyable? 'Enjoyable' is subjective but nonetheless, I dont know how it would if there are different variables involved and different situations that they wont encounter if they did 'static' pulls of 20 minutes.
Riot said:Servirus said:The stream was boring wish I had not wasted my time seeing it.
They should have logged in sooner not to talk to the subscribers, but to understand the class they were playing, their spells and their role in the group, maybe even do a few pulls before starting the stream. I was hoping to see new stuff in the zone like it was advertized and all I saw was constant wiping on low lvl stuff and they couldn't even kill the named mob the right way.
Would have just been better to make 4 different streams with one streamer, joppa and prealpha testers so they could atleast carry them to see new stuff.
This is just my opinion and a suggestion to make stuff more doable and more interesting for new people looking at the game to exite them, like Cohh's stream was. If I had joined a pug group like that i woulda quit it long ago and look for a more viable group.
I dont understand. You're mad that developers are trying to show the game off to an audience that has little to no experience with old mechanics and slower pace requiring to adapt and shift from pulling 20 mobs to 3? I dont remember them projecting that todays stream would reveal a new area only that on Cohh's stream it was reserved for today, it wasn't some crazy reveal.
It's this kind of attitude that drives new players away from the game, we forget that even though we 'invested' into the game, we still want new players to stay and it starts with us and our attitude towards them. The whole point of Pantheon and its selling point is that it is supposed to be challenging, whats more challenging then a bunch of new players trying to CHANGE their normal play style for the past decade of their MMO experience? It was clearly displayed that the game is not some cakewalk and was fun seeing them wipe and progress and get better. Would giving them 20 minutes to learn their abilities and grab a few pulls make the stream more enjoyable? 'Enjoyable' is subjective but nonetheless, I dont know how it would if there are different variables involved and different situations that they wont encounter if they did 'static' pulls of 20 minutes.
When did I ever say I was mad at something or at someone lol Its just my opinion and suggestion you can like it or not, no one is the same. Also a lot of stuff you talked about I commented on lower on the thread. Again with my opinion which was based on a streaming standpoint, which included a bit of my experience from my start in mmorpgs. I wont be adding more since i said all i had to and the rest would just be fighting for no reason when thats not why i put up the thread anyways. I want this game to attract new people as much as you do trust me.
I totally disagree on this subject with Servirus, as I have already mentioned in another post with him ( or her ). The stream at least from Hives page was funny. I'll have to watch it from the other guys points of view later in the week. It went as well as I would've thought, but I had no expectations so I had fun watching them. I can care less if people stopped watching the streams because they didn't get it or were jaded about graphics or whatever else. I say try it before you crap on it. :D
Bronsun said:I totally disagree on this subject with Servirus, as I have already mentioned in another post with him ( or her ). The stream at least from Hives page was funny. I'll have to watch it from the other guys points of view later in the week. It went as well as I would've thought, but I had no expectations so I had fun watching them. I can care less if people stopped watching the streams because they didn't get it or were jaded about graphics or whatever else. I say try it before you crap on it. :D
Again diference of opinion and I'm not crapping on the game nor did i talk about pre alpha graphics, which btw are looking better and better. I wish i had been the one playing it and Im a him lol, for future reference, pleasure to meet you :)
philo said:I'm not expecting them to be experts but I do have to question someones mmo experience when they don't understand something as basic as what conning a mob is. Similar to how, in one of the older streams, the streamer didn't realize that sitting would regen mana faster and they tried to click on water when they were oom.
No idea what "conning a mob" means, and I've played upwards of a dozen MMOs. None of them (aside from Aion) involved sitting to regen mana, either. These seem like odd things to criticize.
If we were in Beta and showcasing the near-finished product I could understand the criticism and worry, but, personally, I think demonstrating how people new to old-school MMORPGs get on (and still have fun even when it goes wrong) is great.
We saw the new Orc region yesterday. Unless there's something else new to see, then a bunch of noobs playing it is as close to us noobs giving it a go as we are going to get ;^)
Cmon the stream was great! with a LOT of new info, we got to see how real players handle the game (looks very challeging), We got to see the Ranger!, Physical mess (rogue) and magical mezz (enchanter).
Also we got info on a big variaty of spells, from a lot of the classes, many of these skills are not yet in the class revials. So all in all in my opinion i rly like the Stream, hopeing for another similar grp stream in the future!
Naunet said:philo said:I'm not expecting them to be experts but I do have to question someones mmo experience when they don't understand something as basic as what conning a mob is. Similar to how, in one of the older streams, the streamer didn't realize that sitting would regen mana faster and they tried to click on water when they were oom.No idea what "conning a mob" means, and I've played upwards of a dozen MMOs. None of them (aside from Aion) involved sitting to regen mana, either. These seem like odd things to criticize.
Regarding “conning a mob”, Everquest had a button that allowed you to ”consider” any targeted mob. It gave you a text message that told you how the mob would react to you (ie, whether it would attack you or not), and also gave you a somewhat nebulous idea of its level relative to you by the color of the text. Eventually, as most frequently used words do in MMOs, players shortened the word from “consider” to “con”.
Servirus said:The stream was boring wish I had not wasted my time seeing it.
I disagree. I enjoyed it and appreciated it!
Yes it hurt a little to see newbies making silly mistakes over and over but it is cute in a way (as long as they are not in my group haha).
It was a relaxing stream, most of them did not have any experience playing EQ1, EQ2, Vanguard. The group was not fully buff for most fights, the tank had no shield and crappy gear, (he also started without abilities) and that some players were not using debuffs and were confused about spell getting resited vs an orange NPC.
But, what I learn from the stream is how much they learn in only 2 hours! When new players will watch veteran players play, they will learn, and enjoy the process. It is cool to not only level up in game and repeat over and over trivial linear quests like a sheep. I feel that it is very valuable for the person behind the character, to learn as well about the mechanics, the rotation, the combo, the positioning, the execution and teamwork. This is what Pantheon is going to bring back!
Thank VR and all the streamers for their time! Keep up the good work!
I have to completely disagree with the OP here. Seeing a group coming into Pantheon with almost no knowledge and relying on the bad habits they've established from years of playing modern casual MMOs (much like how thousands of players will in the future) is an extremely important side of the game to see. It makes it undeniably clear how difficult and punishing the game is. But at the same time, look at how quickly they were able to actually figure out what they were doing wrong and adapt and improve their strategies. From a game design perspective, showing that that sort of learning and improvement is possible, even in just a couple of hours is HUGE! I can only imagine how much Joppa and the rest of the devs enjoyed seeing the group work through the mistakes. I'm sure it was no accident that Joppa didn't guide them for the most part.
We did actually see one new part of Hanggore, but (as much as I love new info,) I don't think we should judge the quality of a stream by how many new areas WE saw. There's so much more to the game than that. This was much more reminiscent of the Jim Lee stream. It's intentionally more laid back and gives you a better idea of what it's like for a regular group of bros to play Pantheon on an average day. (While simultaneously exposing the game to new audiences) On launch day, you won't have Cohh and a bunch of devs leading you around and answering questions. I think it's really good to throw the script to the wind every once in a while and watch the raw struggle. It makes the game feel less sterile and much more real.
I think this thread shows exactly that: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/9048/please
Servirus said:The stream was boring
I disagree.
Servirus said:They should have logged in sooner not to talk to the subscribers, but to understand the class they were playing, their spells and their role in the group, maybe even do a few pulls before starting the stream. I was hoping to see new stuff in the zone like it was advertized and all I saw was constant wiping on low lvl stuff and they couldn't even kill the named mob the right way.
If you ask me, which I know you are, but I think it was actually more amusing this way.
Servirus said:Would have just been better to make 4 different streams with one streamer, joppa and prealpha testers so they could atleast carry them to see new stuff.
Doing that would not have garnered the new views of the audiences these guys pull in from their channels.
Servirus said:This is just my opinion and a suggestion to make stuff more doable and more interesting for new people looking at the game to exite them, like Cohh's stream was. If I had joined a pug group like that i woulda quit it long ago and look for a more viable group.
Again, just IMHO, the dev run groups are typically boring other than Aradune messing something up. They are very scripted usually so seeing new people thrown into something new is refreshing.
Bazgrim said:I have to completely disagree with the OP here. Seeing a group coming into Pantheon with almost no knowledge and relying on the bad habits they've established from years of playing modern casual MMOs (much like how thousands of players will in the future) is an extremely important side of the game to see.
Perfect response.
bigdogchris said:Bazgrim said:I have to completely disagree with the OP here. Seeing a group coming into Pantheon with almost no knowledge and relying on the bad habits they've established from years of playing modern casual MMOs (much like how thousands of players will in the future) is an extremely important side of the game to see.
Perfect response.
Agreed. The more that those unused to this type of gameplay get to see it in advance the more ready for the culture shock they will be. The more ready for the culture shock they are the more likely they are to go "wow, I knew it was going to be tough but this is crazy, time to buckle down and take my time" instead of going "holy crap this game sux I'm gonna unsub and post all over every online repository of ranting I can find about how Pantheon screwed me out of money and how much the game is stupid" because such is the way of the world.
It was refreshing to see a group fumble like that. We're they artificially iinflatedin levels for the stream? Yes, who wants to watch an hour of "a moss snake kicks you for x damage"? Way I see it, they were given a fighting chance, and they learned from their mistakes.
Naunet said:philo said:I'm not expecting them to be experts but I do have to question someones mmo experience when they don't understand something as basic as what conning a mob is. Similar to how, in one of the older streams, the streamer didn't realize that sitting would regen mana faster and they tried to click on water when they were oom.No idea what "conning a mob" means, and I've played upwards of a dozen MMOs. None of them (aside from Aion) involved sitting to regen mana, either. These seem like odd things to criticize.
The con system is great feature when deciding to attack a mob, using the old school method of C for con allows to see what color con it is.
I especially love the new feature EQ has decided to go with Con = C with ( Level of mob ) added to the end of it.
It allows the player to re adjust or get the group ready to decide to heavy heal or not, crowd control, split, or charm.
I hope it goes that way, and in my eyes it is not dumming down a system you already know, Green, light blue, blue, yellow, red. Blue could be up to 1-5 level below difference, light blue can be up to 6-10 levels difference type thing. Yellow can be 1 to 3 levels higher, then red = to max current zone levels.
You have the same in other games, but sometimes they do not have a level associated with it, but by color sequences instead. Both systems, now the 3rd system is added to EQ and it has been the starting points for MMO's.
I really like the ( level of Mob ) added to the color system displayed in chat, so you can adjust the group.
levels higher, then red being