Keno Monster said:
OMG I missed that! This gif is so good!
Ithaca said:Riqq said:Intended or not, it will be the wow killer.
Not at all. Different markets serving different customers and needs. Pantheon is a niche in the MMO landscape. Even if Visionary Realms successfully deliver a great game, it will not replace most of the MMO. Not everybody enjoy the complexity and challenge of it.
Concur.
Pantheon is definitely a niche MMO and does not appeal to the masses of instant-gratification players out there populating most other MMOs.
Riqq said:Orchard said:Watching people who never really played EverQuest get wrecked two mobs in is priceless. It shows that there is a severe disadvantage people will have by trying to steamroll content by not using CC or just plain pulling too much. It's a nice change of pace from the solo friendly games that came out in recent years in the genre. Plus, these guys didn't really have time to "learn" their class before being thrown into the fire. If I joined a group like that, ESPECIALLY at that level, I would probably leave it too, but i would also ask how they reached that level without learning their classes. They did get better as time went on however. I think i heard Joppa explicitly say they don't want to reveal new areas either until they're completely satisfied with them.
This game isn't intended to be a so-called WoW killer, it's a specific niche game that promotes an interactive community and working together to overcome obstacles. If you don't like it, that's cool, you're entitled to your own opinion. If you do like it, cool! keep following the development of it and if you want to you can pledge (donate) to the game and get in-game items when it launches.
Intended or not, it will be the wow killer, the thing is this game is going have what wow offered in the beginning only better, that of which drew in millions which drew in millions more, this will happen it is forseen..
I think Pantheon will be very commercially successful. Probably even moreso than most people think. But there is no such thing as a "wow killer" or really any " killer" at all. I'd challenge you to find an example of any game's release that has DIRECTLY led to the demise of another successful game. It just doesn't work that way. Perhaps quite a number of people will leave WoW for Pantheon, but WoW will still be going strong for sure, and that's okay. There's plenty of room on the market for both of them. As others have said, they're far from direct competitors.
zewtastic said:Feyshtey said:I would say that you couldn't communicate more clearly what pantheon is and what to expect from it than from a rather hardcore reality check for well known game streamers.
I thought it was entertaining as hell, personally. and the process of evolving tactics the group went thru was a fantastic way to highlight several game tenets.
Let me just fix this for you.
"I would say that you couldn't communicate more clearly what pantheon is and what to expect from it than from a rather hardcore reality check for well known game streamers."
Just because you don't know them or just because they're not the #1 streamer on Twitch doesn't mean they aren't well known :P Across all their platforms, there are literally millions of followers. I'm not saying all of those millions will watch yesterday's stream, but they're certainly in the realm of "well known."
No, they're not well known Bazrim.
Obviously you have no concept of how many streamers and viewers there are out there.
Those streamers are more common to some MMOs, but outside that, no.
And streamers for many many years used botting to artificially increase their stats. Twitch cleaned a lot of it up, but many streamers still have vastly inflated and completely false follows and views. So never a great idea to rely on those stats.
I can show you streamers with 50K followers, a million views, that stream every day, but cannot hold more than a dozen live viewers.
A big take away ( game wise ) from these videos came from watching a listening to the player Doc. It seems that resists, misses, fizzles, etc could be more recognizable for players. Either in the form of the word miss, resist, etc popping up with the damage numbers when these things happen. Is this somethng many testers have brought up? Scrolling through miles of text logs seems unneeded for something like this and it would go along way in explaning.
zewtastic said:No, they're not well known Bazrim.
It is a pretty silly debate whether they are well known or not. I agree with both you and Bazgrim.
MMO streamers have a hard time to get a lot of viewers because we all know how bad recent MMO games are. I can't watch a WOW stream for more than 2 mins, it represents everything I do not like. No matter who is streaming, I do not watch MMO streams.
However, I chose to trust Visionary Realms. Those streamers were selected/approved for a reason and it is positive. VR main objective is to share their work and improvments with a lot of people from different horizon. I think, they are doing a fantastic job for a pre alpha game and I am grateful.
I'm about half way through watching Hive's stream to better see the Cleric gameplay, (a la YouTube) and I'm finding it very entertaining and informative.. like.. I'm totally geeeking out pausing the vid every so often to see how much Celestial Glow/Celestial Dawn heal and when Hive uses his Celestial Power to cast Word of Health/Burst of Life.
I'm finding it incredibly enjoyable seeing the group stuggle at the onset, learn the game mechanics and improve right before our eyes. Hive's mana management really improved as the stream progressed. I just had to LOL at about the 20:15 mark when Force asks (totally paraphrasing here).. "OMFG are all these mobs this hard". haha
/welcome to Pantheon <3
All I can say is that these two recent streaming events convinced me to pledge. Watching a group of non-devs actually play the game was something that I had been waiting for and I got that last night. I thoroughly enjoyed it and hope to see something like that again in the future.
Ithaca said:zewtastic said:No, they're not well known Bazrim.
It is a pretty silly debate whether they are well known or not. I agree with both you and Bazgrim.
MMO streamers have a hard time to get a lot of viewers because we all know how bad recent MMO games are. I can't watch a WOW stream for more than 2 mins, it represents everything I do not like. No matter who is streaming, I do not watch MMO streams.
However, I chose to trust Visionary Realms. Those streamers were selected/approved for a reason and it is positive. VR main objective is to share their work and improvments with a lot of people from different horizon. I think, they are doing a fantastic job for a pre alpha game and I am grateful.
I agree there's no point in arguing semantics, because "well known" is subjective. I just choose to not have such a narrow and elitist definition. I'm well aware of how many millions of viewers and broadcasters and viewbotters there are, but that's largely irrelevant - you don't have to be as popular as Ninja to be significant imo. These guys have established themselves in the MMO genre, which is really the genre Pantheon is targeting anyway. The point I'm trying to make is that even only ~24 hours later, the latest stream has already been viewed thousands of times... That's very valuable exposure for the game.
Ithaca said:zewtastic said:No, they're not well known Bazrim.
It is a pretty silly debate whether they are well known or not. I agree with both you and Bazgrim.
MMO streamers have a hard time to get a lot of viewers because we all know how bad recent MMO games are. I can't watch a WOW stream for more than 2 mins, it represents everything I do not like. No matter who is streaming, I do not watch MMO streams.
However, I chose to trust Visionary Realms. Those streamers were selected/approved for a reason and it is positive. VR main objective is to share their work and improvments with a lot of people from different horizon. I think, they are doing a fantastic job for a pre alpha game and I am grateful.
Maybe I'm old, or maybe I just have better things to do, but do people really sit around and watch Twitch streams of other people playing games? I understand watching a something like the games first ever attempt on a raid boss. Or like for Pantheon to see whats happening with development.
But do people really sit around and watch streams of people doing everyday things in games?
Fulton said:Ithaca said:zewtastic said:No, they're not well known Bazrim.
It is a pretty silly debate whether they are well known or not. I agree with both you and Bazgrim.
MMO streamers have a hard time to get a lot of viewers because we all know how bad recent MMO games are. I can't watch a WOW stream for more than 2 mins, it represents everything I do not like. No matter who is streaming, I do not watch MMO streams.
However, I chose to trust Visionary Realms. Those streamers were selected/approved for a reason and it is positive. VR main objective is to share their work and improvments with a lot of people from different horizon. I think, they are doing a fantastic job for a pre alpha game and I am grateful.
Maybe I'm old, or maybe I just have better things to do, but do people really sit around and watch Twitch streams of other people playing games? I understand watching a something like the games first ever attempt on a raid boss. Or like for Pantheon to see whats happening with development.
But do people really sit around and watch streams of people doing everyday things in games?
Absolutely. In fact, 15 million people do that every day just on Twitch alone. But I can understand why that may seem strange to some people who aren't familiar with it. The simplest explanation is to compare it why so many people spend time watching sports. But the thing that really makes it so profound is the community aspect. Twitch wouldn't be what it was if it weren't for the chat rooms. It's not just about watching. The fact that you can interact with the host and other viewers in real time is what keeps bringing people back because it gives people a sense of belonging. Just like how relationships and bonds are formed over common interests in Pantheon, the same basic principles are in play on Twitch. You can be chatting with people that have almost nothing in common with you, but because you both like the same game, you can have a conversation. That's pretty powerful. Humans are of course inherently social creatures, so because Twitch does a good job at facilitating networking and community building, people can't help but flock to it by the millions. But beyond that, a lot of people watch it to learn from skilled players about how to get better at their favorite games. Others use it to discover new games that they've never heard of before that they might want to play. And lastly, it also simply serves as a source of fun and entertainment - many hosts will provide laughs, much like how people will go see a standup or improv comedian. All of those things combined make Twitch one of the most visited websites on the entire internet.
I've watched a fair amount of streamers over the years, for a pretty wide spread of content. I think the most popular guy I regularly watched had about 1200 viewers at his peak popularity. The thing to realize about Twitch is that it's not just games. You can tune into people's art streams there and interact with the artist - which IMO, is amazing. What makes Twitch better than spectating sports for me, I think, is the fact that you can interact with the person you're watching. You can win raffles. You can potentially affect their choices/actions with suggestions. Like Bazgrim said, the community aspect is really fantastic, and it goes beyond just the viewer-streamer relationship. There's lots of friends with shared interest to be made there.
@zew
I feel a bit confusing you are stating pantheon is not meant for the masses, just before saying theses streamers aren't very popular.
It would make them a good asset then, to touch a relative small audience, for a game conceived in a niche genre, and thus, for a small audience.
