From FAQ: http://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/
4.11 Can I play with my friend’s new character using my high-level character? What about alts?
Yes, through the Mentor System. Mentoring temporarily de-levels your character and allows you to group with them. You will either scale down or assume the character you were at that lower level (TBD) and be a huge help. This will enable players to group together without one being overpowered and content trivialized.
The Mentor System is voluntary although there will be incentives to mentor, giving your character certain advantages (points, recognition, and other rewards – the details are TBD). We want to encourage people to help new players. Additionally, there will be incentives to create alternate characters through the Progeny System (where when you reach a certain level you can create an alternate level one character who will have some advantages over a brand-new character).
I hope to get a good disussion going on this topic; which I think is really important. I understand the appeal in having a mentor system where someone can level down to play content with a lower level friend or even just to experience content they out-leveled without having tried when they were that level. The thing is... I don't like it. I don't want a mentor system. I know a lot of people do, and see it as a fixing of a flaw in the old school mmo design. Let me explain why I don't see it as such and think it hurts the feeling of reward and the impact of playing the game.
Firstly, Mentor Systems don't feel tied to realism. From a roleplaying standpoint, the argument could be made that the higher level character is "watering down" their ability to help train the companion player. But if this was the case then the high level player should be able to quickly return to normal to avoid death, for them or the companion player. This isn't how these systems are designed though, for obvious reason: if you aren't at any risk of death or failure the game quickly becomes trivial and unrewarding. Simply put, no challenge means no accomplishment. Pantheon is embracing this philosophy as a core tenent and I'm extremely excited about it. Perhaps Pantheon could have some sort of crippling potion that when consumed, de-levels the character. Or, there would be a special sort of NPC that uses magic to de-level the character as a form of weakening or time-reversing effect. But again, from a realism standpoint what reason would an adventurer have to ever voluntarily do this when they could just help the other adventurer using their higher ability. This brings me to another point..
I like powerleveling, so long as it isn't overly advantageous and game-breaking. Some of my fondest memories from EQ1 involved some form of assistance from a higher level character. Earleir on it was benevolent strangers helping me out, and later on I was often helping lower levels. Me and my brother would also use our higher level characters to help level up each other's alts, often inviting other lower levels into our little group. It was a really fun, social aspect of the game that leaves the door open for all sort of roleplaying and mixing of different character levels in one area. It just needs to be kept in check. They have mentioned buffs and benefiicial spells "scaling down" based on the target's level but still being stronger than the low-level equivalent. I like this approach that doesn't make higher level characters helping lower level ones non-existent because for me, it was part of the fun of alts, hence my next point...
A mentor system discourages alts. Why would I make an alt and go through the trouble of leveling him when I can de-level a character I already have, especially if my de-leveled chracter is stonger (even if slightly) than an equivalent character not de-leveled down? I know that this doesn't eliminate the fun of having an alt, there are other classes of course. But, this is one small factor in the decision to have an alt, or three, or five...
The final point I have is I think an extremely important one... For me, it takes away from the impact of lower level content. When you know you can easily revisit a previous level range to experience all the content, it makes our choices feel less important. If you decide to spend level 10-15 in an orc fort as opposed to an undead dungeon, that should feel like an important decision both in terms of roleplaying as well as the experience you "give up". Having to roll an alt to experience content you missed is a lot more work than mentoring down, but this helps create the coveted "stickiness" Pantheon is trying to capture. The long-term playability of the game necessitates that the content we choose along our leveling path matters. The world feels bigger and scarier this way. If you want to see and experience more of the world, you'll have to put in the time and effort required. Just because you made max level with a single character, why should this automatically entitle you to all content of any lower level? I don't think it should.
In my opinion, a mentor system can't capture the level of impact of a certain dungeon or encounter the way going through the area at the appropriate level does. Even if your ability and gear is now perfectly scaled down (which is a difficult thing to accomplish in terms of game design), it still doesnt feel the same. In your mind you still know that you can flick a switch and your character will now be a god against these pathetic mobs. Even though mentoring down is your choice and a player can choose to avoid the system entirely, the use of it by other players has effects on your experience. It changes the nature of the game and of the content. That is my perspective and I'd love to hear everyone elses!
Your mention of the higher lvl player being able to quickly return to a higher lvl in order to avoid death as a lower lvl character is valid if it was implemented like that. It seems very easy to have some sort of restriction so that isn't possible. I don't think it is anything to worry about.
Powerleveling will still be an option. It wil be in addition to the mentor system, not replacing it.
I think your concerns are mostly unfounded and there are so many benefits from a mentor system that haven't been brought up here. Have faith in the team.
philo said:Your mention of the higher lvl player being able to quickly return to a higher lvl in order to avoid death as a lower lvl character is valid if it was implemented like that. It seems very easy to have some sort of restriction so that isn't possible. I don't think it is anything to worry about.
Powerleveling will still be an option. It wil be in addition to the mentor system, not replacing it.
I think your concerns are mostly unfounded and there are so many benefits from a mentor system that haven't been brought up here. Have faith in the team.
I mention the hypothetical ability to quickly return to normal level because that's what would be possible for an adventurer who was mentoring a character by "watering down their abiity" (in roleplaying terms). I can't imagine the devs doing anything like that, but it's part of my point that mentoring isn't a realistic, roleplaying-friendly mechanic.
I understand they're not removing powerleveling altogether. As I mentioned, I like having powerleveling. But why would I have powerleveled one of my borther's alts if I could mentor down? When we tried EQ2 I mentored my Mystic down to play with his character and the whole experience felt cheap and trivial. It was content I didn't "belong in" and i was more powerful than him by a significant margin. It cheapened the experience even worse for him, who now felt the gear he had thus far gotten and the content he was in was not so special as before. This dynamic really just served to encourage him to level up as fast as possible to be competitive at ANY level since a max level character could mentor down into any content in the game. The Pantheon community worries a lot about low-level content graveyards and I think mentor systems can influence this occuring.
What makes you say my concerns are unfounded? I feel like these are worthwhile condierations. I also understand the benefits of a mentor system. I'm publicizing these points against having one because for me they outweigh the benefits. Others feel different and I want to hear why, possibly even change my mind about mentoring. I have a lot of faith in the devs, but they're job is a complex one and a lot of how they design this game is based on what the community wants, people like you and me.
If you felt overly powerful in EQ2 mentoring down that is a balance issue.
Usually when someone uses the point of some sort of game design not being "realistic", they are right but it's a game. You can't expect it to be. Roleplayers have to suspend their disbelief and take many game systems with a grain of salt.
Your concerns are valid if they are implemented the way you described, but it should be quite easy to implement them in a way that nullifies your concerns. That is why I feel they are unfounded.
I’m honestly really against both the mentor and progeny system.
If you want to help new characters you can always give them a piece of special gear, or give them a few high level buffs. Or, roll an alt yourself and play with them at the same level and add to the group.
The arguments for is that “It gives an incentive to help new players by rewarding them with better stats” if this is the case there is absoultely zero reason to get your first, or even second character BiS gear. You’re going to want to level them as fast as possible to max level and then boom progeny system kicks in giving your new level one has things other level ones would not have.
To me that seems like a disaster in the making. Even if it is optional it is the ONLY option at that point to become a relevant character.
Now just imagine that in pvp. A bunch of lvl 5s with cloth are running around and all of a sudden a third teir progeny character one shots then all(Obv a worst case scenario but you get the point)
Now if the progeny system gives you no better than a pat on the back with a cool title I’m fine with that. But I would much rather see alts be rolled organically. But really if you just put a level range restriction on who can and can’t group together (with exp, sure they can join you but the lower level won’t get anything) Then by all means it makes a system like this pretty unnecessary
Well, EQ2 didn't do it right if you ask me. It was a good system, but in EQ2 you were way overpowered and able to de level down 5 levels without anyone nearby. Which meant I could have been a perma level 10 taking on level 20 stuff, which was easy because they didn't mitigate the stats right either. Not only that but they left the skills available. I think mentoring in this system should give you the skills and abilities that a level 20 would have if you wanted to mentor a level 20.
As far as roleplaying goes, I don't use it. But I don't see how it doesn't fit a roleplaying type thing. This is the way I see the mentor system, it's like being an intern. You are mentoring a higher level person to gain experience and a basic knowledge of how they do things. Such as lawyers, they take apprentices all the time and the lawyer mentors them so they can learn how to be better lawyers. You're saying that system messes up the roles in our world? That this system is useless?
Now returning to normal level out of nowhere, ok, I can see this point. They do need to implement some kind of system to prevent that, like you can't unmentor unless you zone or die would be worth it to fix this concern.
Some people could choose to powerlevel and all that, but what about rogues that want to help their friends out? They can't powerlevel. So you're basically saying because you want to own the market on powerleveling no one should be able to mentor? Doesn't sound fair to me, it sounds like the point you are trying to make tho. Maybe some level 10 has a group and can't find a tank, and I'm doing nothing at max level as a warrior and said "hey, i guess I'll go make some friends til these guys find a tank", and all of this possible because of the mentor system.
Now, my last point, what does any of this have to do with alts? I don't like alts, I have never played a game and completed an alt. I would honestly prefer this system over making an alt. What about people like me? They don't deserve a second chance as a newb without having to completely restart?
Don't get me wrong, but most of your points seem pretty self centered, and not caring about why this system would be good for the community, but looking at it as why this system would be bad for you. I like the system, and I look forward to it.
What's next?
@eldrun This isn't a progeny thread so I don't want to turn it into that. I encourage you to read the other dozen threads on the subject, specifically to read about the benefits.
One thing to take into account when you are reading some of the threads is to be wary of the posts from people who haven't played a game with a system similar to progeny. There are quite a few posts that have misunderstanding about how these type of systems work.
Making an alt is almost never completely restarting due to being able to twink your new character. Although I see your point of not wanting to have an alt because you’d rather play your main.
Now if /somehow/ the mentor system allowed you to delevel and give you the same range of /gear/ and stats the rest of the group has I’m fine with this. But even so this would be incredibley difficult to make.
I apologize for getting off topic by brining up the progney system, I was reading from the first post and noticed it and found it relevent.
Dubah said:Don't get me wrong, but most of your points seem pretty self centered, and not caring about why this system would be good for the community, but looking at it as why this system would be bad for you. I like the system, and I look forward to it.
What's next?
My commentary is of course based on my perspective, but my concerns are based on a community game with community interaction. I also think you misunderstand my arguments about roleplaying and being able to turn off the de-level very quickly. I know Pantheon wouldn't implement a system as broken as EQ2 had. If you read my concerns, they are at their heart about what the existence of a mentor system (even executed with more balance and realism) does to the entire community and feel of the game and its content. Btw, my main in EQ1 was a Monk, I definitely wasn't the best at powerleveling.
Mentor systems are at their core designed to allow different level players to group up so that the community can have easier ability to interact across the playerbase, a goal I support. But, when a player de-levels down into content how is this so different than if the system did the opposite and leveled a character up? In either case, its level-specific experiences that the character wouldn't normally have access to. We tend to think of the higher level character of having earned access to all content below their level, but should we think this way? This is a story-based game wth stories designed for a character of a certain level range, I think in either case we are shrinking the world and cheapening the experience of this content and incentivizing rapid leveling over story and social immersion.
I understand you want a mentor system, and a lot of people do. I think there are extremely valid reasons why and I'm not blaming anyone for having that opinion. In fact, I'm still open to a mentor system myself but I'm definitely leaning against one based on the reasoning in my post.
There are definitely some "misunderstandings" regarding how the progeny system is being perceived. If you want to read the most informative comments that have been shared regarding that feature, please feel free to check this thread and read the comments posted by Aradune:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3949/progeny-tweak
Some interesting points and definitely worth discussion :)
Dunlen said:Firstly, Mentor Systems don't feel tied to realism
True and it might be interesting to have to go to some kind of NPC with a friend and they magically 'power synchronise' or 'memory wipe' you to that friend's level in order to mentor them. Quickly returning to high level wouldn't necessarily break the system for me, but it might well mean that you couldn't simply re-mentor after you'd un-mentored to save the day.
I think there could easily be some workable and interesting mechnics put in place to make it more role-play friendly and more of a choice with consequences.
I like powerleveling, so long as it isn't overly advantageous and game-breaking
I'm not so keen and I think, as far as game-breaking goes, there's pretty much nothing *more* game-breaking than rendering content trivial in order to gain XP fast, ie. power-levelling.
There's nothing more annoying that getting to a level-appropriate camp to find one character with a high level friend monopolising it and making everyone there look crap. I can't imagine why people power-level in the first place. What's the point in playing if you aren't going to enjoy learning your class properly and experiencing the content fairly with some challenge *shrug* I don't get it.
Also, twinking often has game-breaking effects as much as power-levelling; trivialising content even if the character is the 'correct' level.
As others have mentioned, I'm sure you'll be able to power level and twink and get high level buffs, etc, anyway, but mentoring, to me, is a much more positive way of achieving similar effects and if you don't think power-levelling is game-breaking then even the worst conceived and executed mentoring system must be at least 'ok', no?
A mentor system discourages alts
To me, alts are for enjoying different races and classes not for having different level ranges covered. I like having lots of alts because I like trying lots of different races and classes and content, but, with old mechanics, I might *have* to have an alt I only ever play with my brother and an alt I only play with my friend etc. so levels keep in sync, but that's not so much giving me the fun option of alts as much as inconveniencing me by forcing me to play only certain characters when certain friends are online.
And, in my experience, it becomes even more complex and painful as my brother gets to know my friend etc. and I want to play with them both/all, but they are now different levels and, blah, blah, blah, argh. Mentoring makes that kind of thing SO much easier. The others could mentor the lowest level, or I could always just have used my main in the first place, whichever I wanted.
The point is I *could* play an alt with each, but didn't *have* to unless I wanted to try different race-class-region and later, when my friends meet each other we can all play together without all starting over (which just wouldn't happen very often).
Just because you made max level with a single character, why should this automatically entitle you to all content of any lower level? I don't think it should
But that character, in all the games I know, *can* go to any area in the game and not only see it, but wipe it out and farm every cool bit of loot in there. At least the mentoring system would encourage them to do it at a level appropriate to the content and with other players instead of solo wiping the whole place clear in minutes and possibly annoying everyone else there.
In EQ recently I had to get a couple of items from lower level dungeon bosses I'd never seen before in order to get myself a key to a new high level zone. I just walked in, dropped down to the lowest level boss, slapped them in the face, got the parts and was away. It would have been *much* more fun and challenging to mentor down and actually *do* those dungeons with other players how they are supposed to have been done. Role-play it how you like. Just pretend they were high level dungeons *shrug* what does it matter? Mentoring it would simply have been better.
In my opinion, a mentor system can't capture the level of impact of a certain dungeon or encounter the way going through the area at the appropriate level does... It changes the nature of the game and of the content. That is my perspective and I'd love to hear everyone elses!
I understand that, but I think that's very much a personal perspective that I think a lot of people wouldn't be so bothered by. As in my keying example above, it would simply be better to be the correct level for the dungeon however you sell it to yourself.
The whole concept of 'level' is pretty weird anyway, isn't it? Why should this castle full of trained soldiers be 10 times more powerful than another? Training and experience in no way ever explained the phenomenon of being able to prance through one dungeon patting every goblin on the shoulder, gathering them all in one room and then blasting them all down with AoE attacks in 10 seconds, but then going to the next dungeon you suddenly aren't able to survive a one-on-one with the goblin doorman.
If you can get by that level of suspension of disbelief, surely you can handle the implications of mentoring?
Like I said, you make some interesting points and it's worth discussing because VR need to be careful how they implement it, but I don't think it's a bad idea at all. Quite the opposite with a little care.
First off I should state that in general I am very against both power leveling and twinking. Both destroy the level appropriate challenge of an area and when someone is clearing an entire area solo that is intended to support 2 full appropriate groups that one person is ruining the fun of 11 other people, this is even more important in a game without instancing. I actually hope that a high level character power leveling a low level character, or solo farming, in the presence of level appropriate groups that are unable to access the content due to the high level player becomes a punishable offense under play nice guidelines.
To me a good mentor tool would have the following traits.
Mentoring both down and back up can only be done at specific NPCs in cities.
When a PC mentors down they become a generic character of that class/race/level.
The generic characters stats are tuned to mimic having normal level appropriate gear, nothing that drops from higher level mobs and nothing from ultra rares. But no actual gear and the players inventory is locked out (they don't consume food or water during this period)
Mentor characters cannot loot, mentoring is intended to help train and fill low level groups not as a way to advance the full level character.
When the mentor character dies its exp loss is from a Mentor exp bar and not from their full level exp bar.
When a Mentor character dies they have the option to come back at full level or stay in mentor mode.
I think a good mentor tool will be very valuable for helping new players get into the game, preserving the level appropriate game balance, allow players to experience a zone in a challenging mode that they may not have had a chance to when leveling and as a way of dealing with party role imbalances.
Trasak
I am definitely in favor of mentoring that is done right, and i think VR want to make sure it is done right.
Trasak said:When a PC mentors down they become a generic character of that class/race/level.
The generic characters stats are tuned to mimic having normal level appropriate gear, nothing that drops from higher level mobs and nothing from ultra rares. But no actual gear and the players inventory is locked out (they don't consume food or water during this period)
Trasak
I believe / hope this will be their approach and if it is this alone should really put anyones mind at ease, VR indicated said they would want scaling to ensure the mentor is not over powered and i believe them.
If mentoring makes a high level character stats like that of an average joe (at the mentored level) based on some a standard character sheet for each level, class, race, we don't have any issues of game breaking at all. In fact it means that a group may well even benefit (stat wise) from a standard unmentored player at their level with quality gear rather than a mentored player, but the group does likely benefit from the experience (i dont mean xp lol) that mentor brings on to the fight.
Pretty big discussion in this thread from way back... worth having a look, good points from all sides.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1543/mentoring-yea-or-nay/view/page/1
Edit: Changed my wording to reflect that I am not sure this is the system they are implementing lol, sorry
Some insteresting insights coming from the last few posts. I agree that I'd like to see mentoring, if it exists, only possible by visiting a certain NPC in major cities. And, balancing the power level is also key. The devs have talked about gear scaling with level where every item is designed this way from the beginning, and if that is done right then mentoring shouldn't have too much issue from balancing gear. They've mentioned similar for the power of spells and it wouldn't be hard to have spells and abilities that are higher level than your mentored level be greyed out and unuseable.
I trust the team to be thinking about this stuff, but at the end of it all I'm still skeptical of a mentor system. I still think it would lessen the impact of the lower level content and make our choices of content we choose to do as we level less significant. There are people that don't make alts and thats fine, they have made that choice. It's a choice we all make in solo rpgs as well. We choose what to do as we play through Skyrim and going back to low level content as a high level doesn't mean we get to experience it in the same way. You have to make a new character to experience the content in the way it was intended, and I think that's fine, even good for the longterm playability of the game.
Powerleveling and twinking are tricky. I think they might be one of those things that are so rooted in my nostalgia for EQ1 that I can't think about them objectively. Suffice to say, I might want them mostly just because of my yearning to try and relive those experiences from the past. Basically South Park "Member Berries". lol
Thing is, if we had neither mentoring nor powerleveling/twinking, we are only left with rolling alts to play with players of lower levels in any meaningful way and I question if that would be a good thing for the health of the community and the lower level content of the game in the long run. So what's the best of the two options or should we have both? As I outlined, and speaking solely for myself, I'd ditch mentoring in favor of a mild ability to powerlevel and twink. Probably just my nostalgia making me feel this way and it is what it is. *shrug*
Dubah said:As far as roleplaying goes, don't use it.
They could add a button to the game that instantly grants you max level, and people could respond "If you don't like it, don't use it". But that really doesn't address the issue, does it.
I personally believe that giving us a shared bank to easily transfer items between characters is a better solution. It would encourage twinking and encourage starting over and encourage continuing to reuse old content and cities which is crucial for these games to succeed.
Dunlen,
I 100% agree there shouldn't be any mentoring system, but you may as well beat a dead horse. This came up about a year ago and 99.9% of the folks on here WANT mentoring...
Anyways, mentoring is a really bad idea, but brad and gang are hell bent on the idea, so it is what it is: but that's MY opinion. i'll get over it i'm sure
I would say that a mentor system of any kind should have a level limit on lets say 20, afer that its just power levling and in my opinion cheapens the earning of any reputation in a server, you remember the people that you strugled with since lvl 1 and you form a long term relationship wether they move on to another guild and you rejoin them in a group months later as an old aquaintance.
Cap the mentoring system please.
bigdogchris said:Dubah said:As far as roleplaying goes, don't use it.
I personally believe that giving us a shared bank to easily transfer items between characters is a better solution. It would encourage twinking and encourage starting over and encourage continuing to reuse old content and cities which is crucial for these games to succeed.
If mentoring doesnt give you an advantage stat/hp/damage/mana wise and does make you only average for that level, i think we would see mentoring used primarily in scenarios where friends / family who are far apart in level ranges would be able to join each other without creating new characters and having to catch up 20 levels. We may also see it used (once again if they dont OP mentoring and make you merely average) when for instance a high level tank is kicking around and he hears a group trying to get a tank who are having no success, he could if he felt like mentor down and tank for them without trivialising the content they are attempting.
If you're merely average in stats/damage/AC etc as a mentor then this is not a power leveling system.. its grouping as usual
This does also bring high levels back to reuse old content, i think both systems can work side by side. Both systems need be to moderated by scaling in order not to kill the challenge.
Flapp said:Dunlen,
I 100% agree there shouldn't be any mentoring system, but you may as well beat a dead horse. This came up about a year ago and 99.9% of the folks on here WANT mentoring...
Anyways, mentoring is a really bad idea, but brad and gang are hell bent on the idea, so it is what it is: but that's MY opinion. i'll get over it i'm sure
You should definitely continue to argue your point Flapp, maybe unless VR asked you to stop. I think its important to continue to discuss it and I dont think anything is set in stone. So you never know what a good discussion / respectful argument might bring.
bigdogchris said:Dubah said:As far as roleplaying goes, don't use it.
They could add a button to the game
Lol, I guess I wrote that wrong, seen it copied and pasted like 10 times now it feels, it's supposed to say I don't use it which is also in the follow up sentence and why you should not take one small part of an argument and turn it against someone, reading the whole thing usually helps clarify the minor mistakes.
It would also be better if you used the other 99% of that paragraph in an argument against that explaining things. That also helps my don't use it argument.
See, they have added many buttons to the game, usually placed at the 0-9 keys. I can do it too!
Perhaps, if close to defeat, a mentor could return to their high level, but their "student" would not gain xp for the enemy they were fighting. Perhaps, if a mentor/pupil engage an enemy and their relationship ends before the enemy is defeated, ie the mentor returns to its real level before the enemy is defeated, the pupil simply cannot gain xp from the enemy they had engaged. Eh?
Alexander said:Perhaps, if close to defeat, a mentor could return to their high level, but their "student" would not gain xp for the enemy they were fighting. Perhaps, if a mentor/pupil engage an enemy and their relationship ends before the enemy is defeated, ie the mentor returns to its real level before the enemy is defeated, the pupil simply cannot gain xp from the enemy they had engaged. Eh?
Nah, I could abuse this system all day long, it has to be zonewide or an NPC that mentors you and only leaving the zone or talking to the NPC again will unmentor you. Otherwise you could easily abuse it. Honeslty, 9/10 times, I'd be more than happy to use mentoring as a way to get loot and bring 5 others who need exp with me. And if all it took was for me to unlevel just to guarantee the loot i would do it. It needs to be harder than that. It needs to be permanent, such as only NPC, or semi-permanent such as zoning brings you back up. I'd prefer an NPC tho because I could see people abusing the zone wide system just as easily.
I believe it has been mentioned officially at some point that the plan is to offer some sort of incentive for players who mentor down.
I'm sure someone can dig it up who is better at pulling up old info than I am.
Edit: it was easier to find than I thought. From the FAQ:
The Mentor System is voluntary although there will be incentives to mentor, giving your character certain advantages (points, recognition, and other rewards – the details are TBD). We want to encourage people to help new players.
philo said:
The Mentor System is voluntary although there will be incentives to mentor, giving your character certain advantages (points, recognition, and other rewards – the details are TBD). We want to encourage people to help new players.
i don't want a gold star sticker, recognition, a pat on the head.... i don't want mentoring at all. Why waste time on this Now. if there is No option, and VR is going to Force mentoring on the game, save it for an expansion. I am playing EQ1 TLP right now. When i am on my lev 50 Cleric and i see Befallen looking for a cleric, i have ZERO desire to OP heal a lev 6 group.
Mentoring trivializes game play. imagine a "noob wizard" getting carried by a full group of super geared Lev 50's in a lev 15 dungeon. the mobs will be getting Demolished, giving the noob a false sense of the game. Next time he/she get a group with a bunch of ill equiped noobs, like themselves, in the Same dungeon, and they die 1 or 2 times because mobs are a lot tougher, they will rage quit the "normal" group because they "suck"
you don't want people labelled as "sucks" in a game where Reputation matters. A LOT
Another issue will be a group of higher levels camping lower level mobs try to "gear their alt" that's being boxed ...so many reason why mentoring sucks.... go mentor in EQ2 and tell me mentoring is "good"... doesn't matter, nothing will alter my opinion on this subject. mentoring is bad for the game.
i don't want a gold star sticker, recognition, a pat on the head.... i don't want mentoring at all. Why waste time on this Now. if there is No option, and VR is going to Force mentoring on the game, save it for an expansion. I am playing EQ1 TLP right now. When i am on my lev 50 Cleric and i see Befallen looking for a cleric, i have ZERO desire to OP heal a lev 6 group.
Mentoring trivializes game play. imagine a "noob wizard" getting carried by a full group of super geared Lev 50's in a lev 15 dungeon. the mobs will be getting Demolished, giving the noob a false sense of the game. Next time he/she get a group with a bunch of ill equiped noobs, like themselves, in the Same dungeon, and they die 1 or 2 times because mobs are a lot tougher, they will rage quit the "normal" group because they "suck"
you don't want people labelled as "sucks" in a game where Reputation matters. A LOT
By your description there seems to be some misunderstanding of how the mentor system will work.