kreed99 said: The skills you gain from 1-20 should translate to any level.
I know I'm stealing just a small amount, but I wanted to make a small point about this one thing right here. This is where EQ2 messed up. You got to keep all your skills, just scaled down to the level you were going for.
I remember there was an instance in the commonlands that had Epic x2 mobs in it, and i was able to solo it, it was like level 15, so i scaled down to 20 so i could get the named exp for my AA's. And at level 20 I solod the whole zone, with no problems at all, because instead of the maybe 10 skills i should have had, i had 4 hotbars of skills, basically, I was able to easily do at least x4 of the damage i would if i waited til level 90 then scaled down to 20 than if i did it at 20. The horrible gear scaling didn't help a whole lot either. But the 4 hotbars of skills were really helpful.
Say if you scaled a level 60 or whatever the max will be enchanter, with all his skills down to level 20, that enchanter would essentially be OP, just because maybe a level 20 enchanter doesn't have group buffs or group mezzes or anything of that nature, but a level 60 would. The goal of the system would not be to trivialize the content, maybe give you a little edge over it, but not that big of an edge that a level 20 scaled down from 60 would have to do even 1/4 of the work that a pure level 20 would. So i think if you mentor, give the skills of a level 20 to an enchanter that mentors down to 20.
manofyesterday said:So why should a high-level character who should be in high-level zones with more complicated encounters be allowed to go back to low-level content, containing much simpler encounters, to grind out levels? That doesn't make any sense.
If what your mean is what i think you mean, They should be allowed simply because a good game desing will not allow a character who is mentoring to be able to grind out levels in any sort of viable way. XP gain mentoring down many levels should be excruciating slow, of course this scales depending on the distance you mentor, but if your going from high level to low level you essentially shouldnt see that bar move lol.
Edit: Disregard, I missed the mark on what you meant and actually agree lol :)
Hokanu said:manofyesterday said:So why should a high-level character who should be in high-level zones with more complicated encounters be allowed to go back to low-level content, containing much simpler encounters, to grind out levels? That doesn't make any sense.
If what your mean is what i think you mean, They should be allowed simply because a good game desing will not allow a character who is mentoring to be able to grind out levels in any sort of viable way. XP gain mentoring down many levels should be excruciating slow, of course this scales depending on the distance you mentor, but if your going from high level to low level you essentially shouldnt see that bar move lol.
I was responding to another poster who seemed to be implying that if his high level character is mentoring somebody in a lower level zone, then his character should receive experience points to such a degree that it provides a good incentive to mentor.
manofyesterday said:What do you find subjective? The idea that encounters become increasingly complex as one gets further into a game? That's the basic design of most video games.
I'm not sure what your point is here with the "spoon feeding" statement. A game's encounters should become increasingly complex and thus more difficult as the player progresses. This is true for almost all games, even ones that are bad.
So why should a high-level character who should be in high-level zones with more complicated encounters be allowed to go back to low-level content, containing much simpler encounters, to grind out levels? That doesn't make any sense.
Subjective is that slow difficulty progression leading to well designed games. Beyond the early "tutorial" phases of a game where mechanics are introduced/explained I feel it's pretty sad (if not insulting) when the following 3/4ths of a game is just a slow ramp upwards in difficulty.
If you want to say you have a challenging game then the majority of that game experience should be difficult; it should go from moderately hard to hard to very hard on maybe a 10% grade. It's more rewarding the whole way through and requires players to pay more attention & learn. You can look back at the boss you finally defeated at level 25 and still be proud and share "war stories" with other players who managed to pull out a win, not look back and say "pfff that fight was nothing." If they want the journey to matter in Pantheon then it should be hard the whole way through and likewise offer the reward of overcoming such difficulty, not sit around looking forward to when the game really starts to get tough or putting higher level players on some elevated pedestal.
High level players getting experience while mentoring is fine when the whole game is designed to be hard. I'm not suggesting it should be near equal in efficiency/reward to that of doing content at level but I really don't see an issue in allowing people to get 10-20% of the experience they might get grouping at their own level, which is likely still slower than someone who might be soloing. At least the person mentoring is helping a group, freeing space in higher content for others, and still spending a large portion of time/energy into leveling (they aren't just going to be mowing everything down).
manofyesterday said:Hokanu said:manofyesterday said:So why should a high-level character who should be in high-level zones with more complicated encounters be allowed to go back to low-level content, containing much simpler encounters, to grind out levels? That doesn't make any sense.
If what your mean is what i think you mean, They should be allowed simply because a good game desing will not allow a character who is mentoring to be able to grind out levels in any sort of viable way. XP gain mentoring down many levels should be excruciating slow, of course this scales depending on the distance you mentor, but if your going from high level to low level you essentially shouldnt see that bar move lol.
I was responding to another poster who seemed to be implying that if his high level character is mentoring somebody in a lower level zone, then his character should receive experience points to such a degree that it provides a good incentive to mentor.
Arg, sorry.. at work at just alt tabbing about, which is why i went in with the comment a bit unsure, sorry for missing that mate! Now i read it again i see that clearly!
in that case... Agree! and editing original post
Iksar said:High level players getting experience while mentoring is fine when the whole game is designed to be hard. I'm not suggesting it should be near equal in efficiency/reward to that of doing content at level but I really don't see an issue in allowing people to get 10-20% of the experience they might get grouping at their own level, which is likely still slower than someone who might be soloing. At least the person mentoring is helping a group, freeing space in higher content for others, and still spending a large portion of time/energy into leveling (they aren't just going to be mowing everything down).
As you have described it that sounds like a pretty good place to be if it is still providing a serious challenge, which at the end of the day is what the game should be doing.
And completely agree with your earlier statement on low levels still requiring plenty of challenge and tactics, how else do we learn!
Iksar said:Subjective is that slow difficulty progression leading to well designed games.
How is that subjective?
Let’s look at the alternatives: the same difficulty throughout the game or a game that starts out at a high difficulty, and then progressively gets easier.
Both alternatives appear to be inferior for the simple reason that they’d become boring.
A game that gets progressively more difficult will continuously offer new challenges, keeping the player interested. And this is precisely how 99% of video games are designed.
Beyond the early "tutorial" phases of a game where mechanics are introduced/explained I feel it's pretty sad (if not insulting) when the following 3/4ths of a game is just a slow ramp upwards in difficulty.
How does that follow?
If you want to say you have a challenging game then the majority of that game experience should be difficult; it should go from moderately hard to hard to very hard on maybe a 10% grade.
How does what you just described differ from what I’ve described? The game that you’ve described goes from easy to difficult, relative to itself. To say that a game starts out easy, relative to the rest of the game, and then progressively gets more difficult, isn’t to say that the game starts out objectively easy. It’s only easy relative to the rest of the game because it marks the beginning. For all we know the easiest part of the game could be equivalent to the most difficult parts found in Dark Souls.
High level players getting experience while mentoring is fine when the whole game is designed to be hard.
I don’t think so because if the game is designed correctly, then the beginning encounters will be less complex in the sense that they’ll require less aggro-management, less situational awareness, less crowd control, and less strategy. Why should a high-level character be allowed to meaningfully progress with respect to experience points in an area that is much easier in all the aforementioned categories? That high-level character should only be allowed to meaningfully progress with respect to experience points in areas that correspond to the character’s level, where the aforementioned categories are much more important.
If incentives are going to be offered for mentoring, then they should be in the form of daily quests, titles, dyes, pets, and special items and mats that will drop only for the character that is mentoring.
Iksars example of 10 - 20% xp at their own level is a bit much maybe.. but it needs to scale depending on the level..
Many factors must scale harshly for mentoring to work. I don’t think VR are going to let you power through your own levels as a mentor in a game that is challenging.. I'd be fairly confident one is not going to slip past the keeper with this team, especially through testing.
manofyesterday said:How is that subjective?
Let’s look at the alternatives: the same difficulty throughout the game or a game that starts out at a high difficulty, and then progressively gets easier.
Both alternatives appear to be inferior for the simple reason that they’d become boring.
A game that gets progressively more difficult will continuously offer new challenges, keeping the player interested. And this is precisely how 99% of video games are designed.
Funny you go and mention Dark Souls later, because those games are consistantly difficult the whole way through with little to no ramps in difficulty. I can't think of a game that was consistantly difficult that I got bored of because I was challenged by it since it's usually the challenge that drives me to improve and overcome. Finally beating those bosses in Dark Souls feels good and the game doesn't become boring or less rewarding as the game continues, I just look forward to the next challenge.
Why do raiders love raiding so much and do it for years on end? Because they like the challenge and it is rewarding to overcome it.
How does that follow?
How does what you just described differ from what I’ve described? The game that you’ve described goes from easy to difficult, relative to itself. To say that a game starts out easy, relative to the rest of the game, and then progressively gets more difficult, isn’t to say that the game starts out objectively easy. It’s only easy relative to the rest of the game because it marks the beginning. For all we know the easiest part of the game could be equivalent to the most difficult parts found in Dark Souls.
You said:
Low-level content should have encounters requiring no strategy, no aggro-management, and no crowd-control.
Mid-level content should have encounters requiring a little strategy, a little aggro-management, and a little crowd control.
And I am saying 90% of the game should require a lot of focus/strategy, aggro-management, crowd control, etc. Not just high levels. When low-mid level content is easy then it feels much more like a grind and reinforces the idea that the "real" content is high level stuff.
I don’t think so because if the game is designed correctly, then the beginning encounters will be less complex in the sense that they’ll require less aggro-management, less situational awareness, less crowd control, and less strategy. Why should a high-level character be allowed to meaningfully progress with respect to experience points in an area that is much easier in all the aforementioned categories? That high-level character should only be allowed to meaningfully progress with respect to experience points in areas that correspond to the character’s level, where the aforementioned categories are much more important.
If incentives are going to be offered for mentoring, then they should be in the form of daily quests, titles, dyes, pets, and special items and mats that will drop only for the character that is mentoring.
So again, I am saying that the difficulty of higher level content should be shades of gray harder than that of lower. Having a level 45 mentoring in a group of level 25s should still offer that 45 some measure of progress level wise, a bit slower than soloing but not an entirely insignificant amount of exp. They still run the risk of dying and losing exp, they are likely getting notably less currency drops, and they are sacrificing any chance at higher level loot by helping lower levels.
Iksar said:And I am saying 90% of the game should require a lot of focus/strategy, aggro-management, crowd control, etc. Not just high levels. When low-mid level content is easy then it feels much more like a grind and reinforces the idea that the "real" content is high level stuff.
I don’t know why a person would conclude that the “real” content is what is found at the end of a game, where things are more difficult. That seems to be a non-sequitur. And you seemed to have missed my point about difficulty. When I say that a game goes from easy to moderate to difficult, that doesn’t necessarily mean easy is objectively easy. It’s only easy relative to itself in the sense that it marks the beginnings of the game. And there are only a few ways a MMORPG can follow the formula of easy to moderate to difficult. I listed most of them: crowd control, aggro-management, situational awareness, and strategy. And my example of easy was just an arbitrary example that I made up on the spot. I could have just as easily said that "easy" requires X amount of crowd control, aggro-management, situational awareness, and strategy and "difficult" requires 100% more of each of those variables--whatever their values may be for "easy."
So again, I am saying that the difficulty of higher level content should be shades of gray harder than that of lower.
I don’t see how that’s good gameplay design and most games don’t follow the “3/4 of the game is this difficulty, followed by the last 1/4 which is a shade more difficult.” It seems to me that most games, generally, go from easy, moderate, to difficult.
Having a level 45 mentoring in a group of level 25s should still offer that 45 some measure of progress level wise, a bit slower than soloing but not an entirely insignificant amount of exp.
I disagree. If that 45 wants to meaningfully progress, then it should be in level 45 content. It doesn’t matter if the level 45 de-levels to 25 because the level 25 content should be less difficult than the level 45 content, presuming the game is following normal game design.
This is one of the more frustrating conversations I've read lol. In the end. You should get some experience for mentoring down, it shouldn't be meaningful. But if I can level up from 45 to 46 in 4 hours fighting white cons. I should get a level of exp for mentoring down for 16 hours.
That's not really making the game difficult.
EQ was difficult from the get go. There wasnt really a steady ramp up in difficulty. Fighting mobs in uguk was just as difficult as lguk and solb. Random named mobs might be more difficult but it was never anything extreme.
Porygon said:This is one of the more frustrating conversations I've read lol. In the end. You should get some experience for mentoring down, it shouldn't be meaningful. But if I can level up from 45 to 46 in 4 hours fighting white cons. I should get a level of exp for mentoring down for 16 hours.
That's not really making the game difficult.
EQ was difficult from the get go. There wasnt really a steady ramp up in difficulty. Fighting mobs in uguk was just as difficult as lguk and solb. Random named mobs might be more difficult but it was never anything extreme.
All that means is EQ wasn't a well-designed with respect to difficulty.
kreed99 said:The main thing about mentoring is the ability to choose your level.
Not sure what you mean by choose your level.
In Everquest 2 you would have to target a lower level player and then choose to mentor that player. Doing so made you the same level as the player you are mentoring. The idea of the mentoring was to a) drop you down to same level as the player you mentor, b) to provide a small XP boost to the player you are mentoring (since that is what mentoring really is, teaching someone how to perform or do things).
It wasn't a system where you open a "Mentoring" menu then type in whatever level you want to scale down to and then run around at that particular level. If the player you were mentoring logged out you would automatically be scaled back up to your actual level again.
manofyesterday said:I'm for the mentoring system if and only if the high level character's power is reduced to the level of those he is helping. And I don't think the high level character should be given experience points for helping, since this could be used as a way to avoid the higher level (more challenging) content.
As for rewards, they should be things that are otherwise impossible to gain. Titles, chance of a pet dropping, chance of a special mat being dropped, chance of a special item being dropped, etc.
Part of the reason to mentor a friend and play as the same level as them is to have fun while simultaneously helping out your friend or other lower level characters. Sometimes you might also want to roll for items (for your own alts). I did this on occasions when I mentored others in Everquest 2, but only did so after talking with the group and agreeing that I could also do greed rolls on items that I could use for my alts. It was a nice way to get some items for my alts while at same time helping out others. Likewise you could get quest items for your alts or crafting materials for your own skills that are still low and need to be trained up while having fun in a group while doing so rather than "farm" the items as a higher level, which means eradicating the whole area and thus denying lower level players the ability to play in that area.
There are many reasons to scale yourself down and help others, besides just having fun and/or being helpful. There doesn't need to be an experience point reward for doing it.
I feel people today are far too ingrained in the "must have rewards" or "must gain experience or loot" mentality, and the idea and concept of playing a game to actually have some fun has been completely lost. And this mentality has created a "rushed" type of gameplay in MMO genre where the ONLY focus is loot, loot, loot and more loot through raids, grinding dungeons through quickplay-LFG systems and so on.
I really hope Pantheon will be a game that isn't going to be focused only on the gear-grinding and min-max stat chasing but more about the community and society in the game.
In Everquest their old slogans were "You are in our world now", and many times you really were. Heck, some days we just "wasted" while playing hide'n'seek, holding theater plays, swimming contenst and other completely "useless" activities that didn't make you higher level or get better items. But those things made you enjoy the game and appreciate the friends you had in the game. That is 100% lost in modern MMOs cause everyone is just 'chasing the buck', where the buck is an item, the next level or some pointless stat-point increase.
Porygon said:This is one of the more frustrating conversations I've read lol. In the end. You should get some experience for mentoring down, it shouldn't be meaningful. But if I can level up from 45 to 46 in 4 hours fighting white cons. I should get a level of exp for mentoring down for 16 hours.
That's not really making the game difficult.
EQ was difficult from the get go. There wasnt really a steady ramp up in difficulty. Fighting mobs in uguk was just as difficult as lguk and solb. Random named mobs might be more difficult but it was never anything extreme.
haha, i wrote and re wrote and ended up deleting it.. what you said much better than I was going to... But was basically exactly what i couldnt find the words to say concisely.
But now just because i'll re iterate what you said..
EQ style MMO's difficulty change depending on where you are, there are harder and easy areas at all levels.
Also as you said, should get xp from mentoring but as you said not meaningful.
And to that point, re the argument, I dont believe Iksar was asking for meaningful xp mentoring, just some "some measure of progress" i think it was.
Hokanu said:Porygon said:This is one of the more frustrating conversations I've read lol. In the end. You should get some experience for mentoring down, it shouldn't be meaningful. But if I can level up from 45 to 46 in 4 hours fighting white cons. I should get a level of exp for mentoring down for 16 hours.
That's not really making the game difficult.
EQ was difficult from the get go. There wasnt really a steady ramp up in difficulty. Fighting mobs in uguk was just as difficult as lguk and solb. Random named mobs might be more difficult but it was never anything extreme.
haha, i wrote and re wrote and ended up deleting it.. what you said much better than I was going to... But was basically exactly what i couldnt find the words to say concisely.
But now just because i'll re iterate what you said..
EQ style MMO's difficulty change depending on where you are, there are harder and easy areas at all levels.
Also as you said, should get xp from mentoring but as you said not meaningful.
And to that point, re the argument, I dont believe Iksar was asking for meaningful xp mentoring, just some "some measure of progress" i think it was.
Why does there have to be "some measure of progress" for mentoring though?
Isn't the reward for mentoring that you are actually helping your friend? Or helping other community members? Or giving yourself a chance to explore an area/dungeon that you missed out on in the past? Or a chance to win some items for your alt?
Again, this mentality that there must always be "something in it for me" which has become such a norm in the MMO's. "If I get no progress I refuse to participate". Are people afraid that they will lose the game if they don't get to end game fast enough, or is it just some gratification need that must be quenched at all times for people to play games anymore?
If community building (which mentoring is really about, whether it's for friends, guildies or low level players who need some help) is going to be built on a foundation of self-interest by individuals then the entire thing is going to eventually crumble.
Ghroznak said:Hokanu said:Porygon said:This is one of the more frustrating conversations I've read lol. In the end. You should get some experience for mentoring down, it shouldn't be meaningful. But if I can level up from 45 to 46 in 4 hours fighting white cons. I should get a level of exp for mentoring down for 16 hours.
That's not really making the game difficult.
EQ was difficult from the get go. There wasnt really a steady ramp up in difficulty. Fighting mobs in uguk was just as difficult as lguk and solb. Random named mobs might be more difficult but it was never anything extreme.
haha, i wrote and re wrote and ended up deleting it.. what you said much better than I was going to... But was basically exactly what i couldnt find the words to say concisely.
But now just because i'll re iterate what you said..
EQ style MMO's difficulty change depending on where you are, there are harder and easy areas at all levels.
Also as you said, should get xp from mentoring but as you said not meaningful.
And to that point, re the argument, I dont believe Iksar was asking for meaningful xp mentoring, just some "some measure of progress" i think it was.
Why does there have to be "some measure of progress" for mentoring though?
Isn't the reward for mentoring that you are actually helping your friend? Or helping other community members? Or giving yourself a chance to explore an area/dungeon that you missed out on in the past? Or a chance to win some items for your alt?
Again, this mentality that there must always be "something in it for me" which has become such a norm in the MMO's. "If I get no progress I refuse to participate". Are people afraid that they will lose the game if they don't get to end game fast enough, or is it just some gratification need that must be quenched at all times for people to play games anymore?
If community building (which mentoring is really about, whether it's for friends, guildies or low level players who need some help) is going to be built on a foundation of self-interest by individuals then the entire thing is going to eventually crumble.
Having xp there doesnt diminish the kind act of mentoring people that you do or don't know. I would imagine people on the receiving end of mentoring would want their mentor to be getting some xp.. in a way you could look at it as the person being gifted help is able to feel like at least they are "giving" somthig back through simply the mechanics of the game. I think i remember a conversation happening while EQ2 mentoring, someone saying to me while mentoring a bunch of randoms.. "We seriously appreciate it so much, etc etc" and i would have replied in jest " haha all good i, earned me a solid 5% while being here :p" (5 hours later) lol
People love to give often more than receive. But thats just more of a philosophical point.
Also... Dont forget some mentoring might also occour with only a 5 level split, thats still maybe fighting greens as your natural level .. but as (lets say) a tank fighting greens you're taking very little damage you might want to drop your level to make it more challenging while playing with your friends, you take a big hit to xp but give them much better xp.
Alternatively you could be mentoring for a group with a very sparse level range that you yourself have only just out leveled the loweset member. In this scenario you could be running with that group, everyone is getting decent xp but you are the highest by a few levels, someone on the much lower end of level range joins (maybe 7 levels below you) and because of you THEY get almost no xp because your sucking it up as a high level... so you mentor lower to help them out.. in that situation, you would actually like some xp all the while helping out this other guy, and thats fair enough i think.
Its all easy, either way, mentoring is good.. some xp is nice, but it must be almost laughable the amount if the level range is great...
Edits: Trying to make it read easier.. busy day at work... writing between phone calls (and sometimes on the phone lol)
Mentor System is a big reason why i pledged. My wife and I play a very different speeds and I hate having to keep up to chars to level with her. I can play solo with nol fear of passing her and keep up with guildies and when she plays I can just go down to her level and use my main. MATTER OF FACT: I would like to propose VR follow GW2 in this Mentor System. You should be rewards for the level you are when you level down. Get exp like your killing mobs your level. Items (not epic or rares) like commons you sell to people or vendors should be based off your real level. Make it so people love Mentoring. Have high level people coming down to hand with lower levels all the time.
FACT: What often kills games a few years in, there is no reason to kill low level mobs other then to get to where you need to go to get to the area of your level. This makes it very hard for new ones who join a game 2-4 years latter. Cant find a team your level, go mentor with some low level players and still have a great time and so do they. Its win win. Make this a reason to play with guildies and friends no matter their level. This will also stop the PL stuff that goes on. So sick of seeing a top level char with someone that does not know how the games works. Mentoring helps them learn the game. Why do you PL? To be able to play with friends and guildies sooner.
Nanfoodle said:Mentor System is a big reason why i pledged. My wife and I play a very different speeds and I hate having to keep up to chars to level with her. I can play solo with nol fear of passing her and keep up with guildies and when she plays I can just go down to her level and use my main. MATTER OF FACT: I would like to propose VR follow GW2 in this Mentor System. You should be rewards for the level you are when you level down. Get exp like your killing mobs your level. Items (not epic or rares) like commons you sell to people or vendors should be based off your real level. Make it so people love Mentoring. Have high level people coming down to hand with lower levels all the time.
FACT: What often kills games a few years in, there is no reason to kill low level mobs other then to get to where you need to go to get to the area of your level. This makes it very hard for new ones who join a game 2-4 years latter. Cant find a team your level, go mentor with some low level players and still have a great time and so do they. Its win win. Make this a reason to play with guildies and friends no matter their level. This will also stop the PL stuff that goes on. So sick of seeing a top level char with someone that does not know how the games works. Mentoring helps them learn the game. Why do you PL? To be able to play with friends and guildies sooner.
No offense, obviously, but this is exactly what I don't want to see. There shouldn't be some big reward for mentoring. Definitely shouldn't be able to get max level from mentoring down to level 20. That will keep people out of the high end zones because the level 20 stuff is much easier to kill.
I like PL'ing to still be an option. Why not? We had it in EQ, and had very little problems, granted there was always that one guy who did cause problems because he had to be greedy about it, but for the most part anyone could fix that problem. That and I'm sure VR would be willing to put a stop to it, SoE and Verant would way back in the day, then they just stopped caring, and sold the game again to another company, which made it even worse. But I'm sure VR will intervene with stuff like that. However, back on topic, mentoring was never a system designed for the playing that is mentoring someone but for the mentee. Usually, like EQ2 he got an EXP boost. But it rewarded the player with a very small and most time insignificant amount of exp. That's what I feel mentoring should do. Redistribute most of your exp to the rest of the group and give you a small amount. Enought to keep the death penalty at bay, but not enough to make you want to level up that way.
I agree with the above poster, mentoring is NOT meant for the higher level player. It is used to help the lower levels community and new players.
You can still play with your friends and gain a bit of exp. But not even close to equal of what it would be at your level.
Not sure why people are trying to turn mentoring into something that is made for the high level toons.
Dubah said:Nanfoodle said:Mentor System is a big reason why i pledged. My wife and I play a very different speeds and I hate having to keep up to chars to level with her. I can play solo with nol fear of passing her and keep up with guildies and when she plays I can just go down to her level and use my main. MATTER OF FACT: I would like to propose VR follow GW2 in this Mentor System. You should be rewards for the level you are when you level down. Get exp like your killing mobs your level. Items (not epic or rares) like commons you sell to people or vendors should be based off your real level. Make it so people love Mentoring. Have high level people coming down to hand with lower levels all the time.
FACT: What often kills games a few years in, there is no reason to kill low level mobs other then to get to where you need to go to get to the area of your level. This makes it very hard for new ones who join a game 2-4 years latter. Cant find a team your level, go mentor with some low level players and still have a great time and so do they. Its win win. Make this a reason to play with guildies and friends no matter their level. This will also stop the PL stuff that goes on. So sick of seeing a top level char with someone that does not know how the games works. Mentoring helps them learn the game. Why do you PL? To be able to play with friends and guildies sooner.
No offense, obviously, but this is exactly what I don't want to see. There shouldn't be some big reward for mentoring. Definitely shouldn't be able to get max level from mentoring down to level 20. That will keep people out of the high end zones because the level 20 stuff is much easier to kill.
I like PL'ing to still be an option. Why not? We had it in EQ, and had very little problems, granted there was always that one guy who did cause problems because he had to be greedy about it, but for the most part anyone could fix that problem. That and I'm sure VR would be willing to put a stop to it, SoE and Verant would way back in the day, then they just stopped caring, and sold the game again to another company, which made it even worse. But I'm sure VR will intervene with stuff like that. However, back on topic, mentoring was never a system designed for the playing that is mentoring someone but for the mentee. Usually, like EQ2 he got an EXP boost. But it rewarded the player with a very small and most time insignificant amount of exp. That's what I feel mentoring should do. Redistribute most of your exp to the rest of the group and give you a small amount. Enought to keep the death penalty at bay, but not enough to make you want to level up that way.
I get where you are coming from but I would rather team with someone who mentored his way to the top in a team and has a good idea of how his skills work over someone PLed and learned to play his class from youtube videos. Also PL takes away from being with the community as it segregates a group of people that have no need for everyone else. Often takes large number of mobs from an area making it unplayable for other teams. Mentoring keeps people playing together and teaching them the best skills they can get, how to use their skills in a team with a wide verity of classes. I am 100% for Mentoring and I hope PLing is not something we see in this game at all, as it is antisocial.
If the only goal for mentoring is to provide players with the option to help others or their friends, out of the goodness of their hearts, then there doesn't need to be any extra incentive. We're dealing with saints here.
But if another goal for mentoring is to keep low-level zones from dying due to people progressing through them and never getting off their mains to create alts, then mentoring should be given some extra incentives. Otherwise, only the saints will use the mentoring system and we all know there aren't that many saints in the world.
That being said, players with high-level characters shouldn't be allowed to avoid high-level content by perpetually grinding out levels in lower-level zones using the mentoring system. That would be ridiculous. Therefore, the mentoring system should provide different kinds of rewards like special titles, special items, special mats, etc.
manofyesterday said:If the only goal for mentoring is to provide players with the option to help others or their friends, out of the goodness of their hearts, then there doesn't need to be any extra incentive. We're dealing with saints here.
But if another goal for mentoring is to keep low-level zones from dying due to people progressing through them and never getting off their mains to create alts, then mentoring should be given some extra incentives. Otherwise, only the saints will use the mentoring system and we all know there aren't that many saints in the world.
That being said, players with high-level characters shouldn't be allowed to avoid high-level content by perpetually grinding out levels in lower-level zones using the mentoring system. That would be ridiculous. Therefore, the mentoring system should provide different kinds of rewards like special titles, special items, special mats, etc.
I agree with you here. You should get the XP of the monsters you are killing. If you've come down 5 levels, then it's not too bad. If you've come down 20 levels, then it'll be next-to-nothing *shrug*
Some reward other than XP would be in order, but nothing crazy. Mentoring shouldn't be *preferable* to normal higher level play or even logging in a level-appropriate alt.