Kronos are a big part in Everquest.
Optionally the reverse.
Will this be a thing in Pantheon?
I'm asking because I feel the Kronos (or similar pay-to-get-rich methods, e.g. the Pilot License or PLEX in EVE Online) in games really undermine the progression of the game. It can quite easily lead to situations where a player who didn't sell Kronos to enable himself to buy twink gear is not getting groups. Not because it is a bad player, but because the groups end up preferring twinked characters instead.
I'm entirely opposed to Kronos/PLEX and similar features in games and feel the ruin the game more than they help it, and lets be honest it's basically a money-grab for developers to prey on the lazyness of people with thick wallets (or rich parents)
Ugh, I feel really bad about doing this, but a simple search of Kronos will wield results.
I'm not going to link it, because I think super old threads are boring, but for the most part it was discussed in lengh and is a highly contested thought with most leaning away from the idea.
Kittik said:I'm not going to link it, because I think super old threads are boring
Well, I haven't really participated on the forums until recently (last couple weeks). I haven't caught everything being discussed a year and two ago, and being 1-2 years old things could have changed between now and then anyhow.
But sure, I can always ressurect old and likely outdated threads too -_-
Kittik said:I feel ya bru...thats why I don't like linking old threads.
But you'll soon find, linking old threads and then scolding those who don't use Search around here is either a game, a part of this community or something else more sinister on these forums.
Well, I did a search for "Kronos". Got one hit... this thread.
Did another search for "Krono". Got one hit... a thread from January 2017 which contained links to stuff from 2016.
/shrug
Kittik said:Ugh, I feel really bad about doing this, but a simple search of Kronos will wield results.
I'm not going to link it, because I think super old threads are boring, but for the most part it was discussed in lengh and is a highly contested thought with most leaning away from the idea.
Lol this pains me. No need to feel bad. And old threads are not boring if they're still relevant. You absolutely should review the previous discussion to see if you can find a definitive answer before starting it all over again. It takes a little digging sometimes, but it would take even more digging if there were 37 different threads on the same topic - the devs wouldn't have time to respond to all of them. And if it's more of a matter of opinion, it doesn't hurt to necro an old thread to add your thoughts. Again, that's preferred to streamline conversation and avoid the same thing being said over and over. But I understand that the search function is not very user friendly, especially if you are new. No game, no scolding, just trying to be helpful:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5180/rmt-selling-krono-vs-gold-farmers
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4830/the-p2p-system-of-pantheon/view/page/1
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2564/subscription-model/view/post_id/35798
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3112/form-of-payments/view/post_id/46992
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/search?query=krono&type=forum_post&submit=
Perhaps the most relevant quote from those threads is this one from Aradune:
"I've said all of this before but it does come up often, so I don't mind re-stating this when necessary:
First, no F2P/pay-to-win/cash shops. Period.
We will either use the good old sub model, or possibly a modular model, where you pay for the game, then each expansion, etc. We're not ready to set that in stone.
As for what the sub would be, the plan is the traditional $15 a month. Yes, we have talked with each other and the community and I think a lot of players, assuming we do make a great game, would pay more. And maybe we do explore premium servers. It's all possible. But, in general, if we go subs, to play Pantheon after the trial period, it would be $15 a month."
(Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2564/subscription-model/view/page/2 ;)
The highlighted portion means no Krono. He's always been very consistent and adamant about the payment model and not letting P2W creep into the game, thus why these old conversations are still relevant.
Don't forget this one where Kronos were basically ruled out for Pantheon: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/7526/no-random-loot-boxes-please
oneADseven said:Don't forget this one where Kronos were basically ruled out for Pantheon: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/7526/no-random-loot-boxes-please
Ah yeah nice one. To save you some reading, here's the conclusion Brad came to:
"Very cool, thanks all for the feedback, comments, and analysis of PLEX-like systems in other games. Your posts essentially reinforced for me why I had the initial negative reaction to the idea (it's an old idea and I'd thought about it years back, but like I said, it was brought up to me very recently and got me thinking about it again). I think in a way such a system is similar to how I look at Instancing. Does it solve some real problems? Yes, but it also creates many more problems than it solves. The negatives simply far outweigh the one positive (curbing gold farming). One could argue there is a second positive, that being revenue for the developer as opposed to the farmer, but that was never really part of my thinking process -- for me the way to create a profitable venture is by creating excellent entertainment, experiences, and value for our players -- do that, and everything else falls into place.
I also cannot reconcile implementing such a system even if put into a firewalled box, e.g. an alternate ruleset server. It would still bleed out and contaminate. As excited as I am about Alternate Ruleset Servers, they are still variations of the core game, they're still Pantheon, and the core audience are the same people. That means there are lines that should not be crossed, and I think we've found a good example of a system that when looked at holistically crosses that line."
(Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/7526/no-random-loot-boxes-please/view/page/2 ;)
Bazgrim said:Lol this pains me. And old threads are not boring if they're still relevant.
It is for a new member when those relevant, but untalked about subjects were last talked on 6 months ago.
Bazgrim said:- the devs wouldn't have time to respond to all of them.
I don't think anyone expects them to, or is even asking them to. Many, 99% maybe, are just threads for us to talk amonst each other and in our own way, stay engaged in the game.
Bazgrim said:And if it's more of a matter of opinion, it doesn't hurt to necro an old thread to add your thoughts. Again, that's preferred to streamline conversation and avoid the same thing being said over and over.
This is where I disagree. These games take a long time, a thread started 2 years ago, although quite possibly still relivant, its not fun to necro and continue talking on.
Many people, especially people like our friend above are new, they want to talk in the fourms on things that interest them. So they talk on the thread they create, they, nor do I, want to go back and read over 3, 4, 12+ pages of posts of a topic they are interested in.
It was fun for you back then getting to talk on the threads you created (Not you Baz, you as in a general populance) and it was fun for you to carry on that conversation. I see no problem with new thread being created everyday by new members who are excited to talk about a new game they just found.
One of the quickest ways to turn people off to a game and turn them into a troll is to shut them down, shut them up, give them no chance to just be excited about their game. Go to MMORPG.com forums and there is where you'll find the people who can't come here and enjoy talking about a game they are excited to talk about, they are the ones who have turned into the h8ters becaue they came here one time, wanted to talk about something and got turned down and shut down.
Thats not fun for anyone and again, there is ZERO harm in a new thread being created. If no one talks on it, ok, so what, it'll disappear, linking old thread for info, ok. Linking old threads and telling people not to created new ones or telling people they should have used Search and blah blah blah kills the joy a new member has in their excitement.
>Many, 99% maybe, are just threads for us to talk amonst each other and in our own way, stay engaged in the game.<
Not entirely. Often if not always someone from VR reads the threads even if they do not choose to comment. Perhaps a prime motivation for us is to talk to eachother but often we try to make points that they will notice in the hope that it will influence their thinking.
dorotea said:>Many, 99% maybe, are just threads for us to talk amonst each other and in our own way, stay engaged in the game.<
Not entirely. Often if not always someone from VR reads the threads even if they do not choose to comment. Perhaps a prime motivation for us is to talk to eachother but often we try to make points that they will notice in the hope that it will influence their thinking.
Yeah, I know dorotea, and thats exciting when they comment on our threads, but if you do the math, 99% of the time, it's us talking amonst each other.
( I did the math, 1,394,034 posts / 5,290 dev replies = 1% )
((I'm lieing, all my numbers are fake))
@Kittik I pledged well over a year ago now, maybe two, and even then I would post stuff and be referred to threads from many months if not years previous.
This forum is somewhat unusual in that it is a 'developer' forum. We are backers of a game that is only just in pre-alpha and developers *are* still interested in our thoughts *but* they can't possibly cope with thousands of threads.
Now, whilst I don't imagine they can keep up in real time even when we keep our thoughts together, they will certainly be greatly aided if when, say, they want to judge community feel on an issue, and they come to the forums and do a search, the posts on the subject they want to judge are in a single thread.
It actually helps the dev and reps (and us) to keep stuff in one thread. Personally I don't get forums that frown on necro threads. If it's still a relevant topic, why is that not the most sensible way to go?
As for reading several pages and maybe years' worth of comments on a subject, well, that's what forums are about no? Sure, you want your own feelings known, but they only way to actually get involved in an issue is to know what the rest of the community think too, no?
Anyway - please don't think of it as being dismissive or unhelpful when people throw links to other threads at you. It's actually the best way to proceed.
Usually the very next post after one of Bazgrim's amazing references and quotes summaries is from Kilsin, the Community Manager, saying thanks and closing the thread so further great comment isn't wasted.
disposalist said:Personally I don't get forums that frown on necro threads.
Not disagreeing with this, what I am saying is that we don't need to be in such a hurry to dismiss new thread. Even if they are reiterations of a thread that died 6 months ago are relivant we don't need to be in such a hurrt to shut people down. Let the new blood flow.
If someone wants to post a link > like this < talks about steam from a few day ago.
Where they can link the thread, and then carry on the new conversation. Give your fresh insights to the new thread and make the thread creater feel involved.
disposalist said:It actually helps the dev and reps (and us) to keep stuff in one thread.
Does it, does having a thread 20 pages long make it easier on the devs to find? Can they also not just use search to find multipule threads? Would a new thread created 5 days ago vs. a thread created 500 days ago not be better to have kept seperated so new/fresh/stupider information be seperated?
disposalist said:@Kittik I pledged well over a year ago now, maybe two, and even then I would post stuff and be referred to threads from many months if not years previous.
This forum is somewhat unusual in that it is a 'developer' forum. We are backers of a game that is only just in pre-alpha and developers *are* still interested in our thoughts *but* they can't possibly cope with thousands of threads.
Now, whilst I don't imagine they can keep up in real time even when we keep our thoughts together, they will certainly be greatly aided if when, say, they want to judge community feel on an issue, and they come to the forums and do a search, the posts on the subject they want to judge are in a single thread.
It actually helps the dev and reps (and us) to keep stuff in one thread. Personally I don't get forums that frown on necro threads. If it's still a relevant topic, why is that not the most sensible way to go?
As for reading several pages and maybe years' worth of comments on a subject, well, that's what forums are about no? Sure, you want your own feelings known, but they only way to actually get involved in an issue is to know what the rest of the community think too, no?
Anyway - please don't think of it as being dismissive or unhelpful when people throw links to other threads at you. It's actually the best way to proceed.
Usually the very next post after one of Bazgrim's amazing references and quotes summaries is from Kilsin, the Community Manager, saying thanks and closing the thread so further great comment isn't wasted.
Yes, this has come up a few times and I agree with the sentiment that it's important to not be a buzzkill. But if your thread gets closed because it's already been discussed at length, it's important to remember that it's nothing personal. It doesn't have to be a buzzkill. And there's nothing stopping you from adding the same thoughts to an existing thread. It is true that the main difference with these forums is that they are development forums, so the main purpose of them has always primarily been to interact with the developers as they develop the game, thus the streamlining of conversation so that the devs can more easily process it. We are kind of at a weird spot right now because as we speak, the game is shifting into a more of a testing phase. A good amount of the game has already been developed over the past 3-4 years of these forums, so there's less of a focus on discussing fundamental systems instead giving feedback what's already in the game. Plus, some people are under NDA while others are not. As such, more testing-focused forums would be ideal. Unfortunately, the new forums aren't ready yet due to some major issues with eCommerce, but they're getting there. I'm confident that things will be a lot better with the new forums, in part because the search function will be much more powerful and easy to use. In the meantime, we kinda just need to stick it out and make the best of what we have. I'm still really pleased to see that overall there have been a ton of newcomers due to the success of PAX, and that has lead to a ton of great discussion on the forums lately.
Kittik said:disposalist said:It actually helps the dev and reps (and us) to keep stuff in one thread.
Does it, does having a thread 20 pages long make it easier on the devs to find? Can they also not just use search to find multipule threads? Would a new thread created 5 days ago vs. a thread created 500 days ago not be better to have kept seperated so new/fresh/stupider information be seperated?
Yes it is absolutely easier to read one long thread than to use a broken search function to try to track down each individual thread, when most of them probably have very different titles. Threads will inevitably get lost. Each comment is dated, so I see no advantage to creating a new thread instead of tacking it onto an existing conversation, regardless of when the thread was originally created.
Even if I pledged only 5 month ago, I don't get why "opening new threads" should be fun and considered better for some.
I mean, it's completely discarding other's opinions not to wish to include their previous statements in the "new post" while they might have talked about this already, gave good arguments or new ideas that could be used. Not because a pledge is fresh, should all his idea be better and require new posts while others condensend as they could in previous topics.
And on the dev perspective, if they are to pick ideas in what brainstorming can come out of our mind, better to keep it at the same place so they don't have to search throught 5 similar topics for differents ideas.
No, no no. Then the trading system becomes kronos this, kronos that, and the ingame money that you earned is worthless.
Saw this on Agnarr in EQ...a progression server. That just encourages RMT...(real money trade) and then bots, and gold seller spam. Its a case of be careful what you wish for.
By the way..to the OP of thread, Kilsin has stated before that he would prefer that we necro threads that pertain to what we want to ask about or talk about. Instead of multiple threads on the same topic being generated. :)
And if that happens, then Kilsin just closes the thread and directs you to the previous thread that refers to the topic you are interested in...hence ALSO why forum members usually post up all the links to that same topic that you wish to discuss. These forums have been open since early 2014, there is a ton of information to absorb. :)
Bazgrim said:disposalist said:@Kittik I pledged well over a year ago now, maybe two, and even then I would post stuff and be referred to threads from many months if not years previous.
This forum is somewhat unusual in that it is a 'developer' forum. We are backers of a game that is only just in pre-alpha and developers *are* still interested in our thoughts *but* they can't possibly cope with thousands of threads.
Now, whilst I don't imagine they can keep up in real time even when we keep our thoughts together, they will certainly be greatly aided if when, say, they want to judge community feel on an issue, and they come to the forums and do a search, the posts on the subject they want to judge are in a single thread.
It actually helps the dev and reps (and us) to keep stuff in one thread. Personally I don't get forums that frown on necro threads. If it's still a relevant topic, why is that not the most sensible way to go?
As for reading several pages and maybe years' worth of comments on a subject, well, that's what forums are about no? Sure, you want your own feelings known, but they only way to actually get involved in an issue is to know what the rest of the community think too, no?
Anyway - please don't think of it as being dismissive or unhelpful when people throw links to other threads at you. It's actually the best way to proceed.
Usually the very next post after one of Bazgrim's amazing references and quotes summaries is from Kilsin, the Community Manager, saying thanks and closing the thread so further great comment isn't wasted.
Yes, this has come up a few times and I agree with the sentiment that it's important to not be a buzzkill. But if your thread gets closed because it's already been discussed at length, it's important to remember that it's nothing personal. It doesn't have to be a buzzkill. And there's nothing stopping you from adding the same thoughts to an existing thread. It is true that the main difference with these forums is that they are development forums, so the main purpose of them has always primarily been to interact with the developers as they develop the game, thus the streamlining of conversation so that the devs can more easily process it. We are kind of at a weird spot right now because as we speak, the game is shifting into a more of a testing phase. A good amount of the game has already been developed over the past 3-4 years of these forums, so there's less of a focus on discussing fundamental systems instead giving feedback what's already in the game. Plus, some people are under NDA while others are not. As such, more testing-focused forums would be ideal. Unfortunately, the new forums aren't ready yet due to some major issues with eCommerce, but they're getting there. I'm confident that things will be a lot better with the new forums, in part because the search function will be much more powerful and easy to use. In the meantime, we kinda just need to stick it out and make the best of what we have. I'm still really pleased to see that overall there have been a ton of newcomers due to the success of PAX, and that has lead to a ton of great discussion on the forums lately.
Kittik said:disposalist said:It actually helps the dev and reps (and us) to keep stuff in one thread.
Does it, does having a thread 20 pages long make it easier on the devs to find? Can they also not just use search to find multipule threads? Would a new thread created 5 days ago vs. a thread created 500 days ago not be better to have kept seperated so new/fresh/stupider information be seperated?
Yes it is absolutely easier to read one long thread than to use a broken search function to try to track down each individual thread, when most of them probably have very different titles. Threads will inevitably get lost. Each comment is dated, so I see no advantage to creating a new thread instead of tacking it onto an existing conversation, regardless of when the thread was originally created.
Y'know, I've been on these forums now since March of 2016. Not quite as long as some, but longer than many, and even I feel the same way as Kittik sometimes when I have an idea or a question I want to ask the community. I think of it, I use the search function, nothing comes up, but I STILL don't post a new thread because I worry I just missed it and it'll get locked.
Every time I see a new member create a new thread, the excitement is almost palpable as it seeps out from their words. They're so excited to talk about this new game they just found, so excited to discuss back and forth, so excited when they do a search and no results pop up so they think it's the first time.
And then *BAM*, "Sorry, game over. We know the search function is bad, but we expect you to try harder in spite of your excitement. Thread locked", all while saying they prefer things to be consolidated as they link multiple threads of the same topic. So all these new members lose that excitement and quietly drift away, and it makes me sad to see.
Perhaps, in the future, the forums should have a built in capability that the forum moderators could make use of. One that makes it easier to assimilate new threads into old threads, rather than locking new threads completely. That creates inclusion, rather than the feeling of isolation that new members might be feeling now.
I get it, Baz, I absolutely do ...but sometimes I wonder if the focus should be less making it "easier" for the devs, and more aboout drawing new potential subscribers in. Yes, it's a developer forum, but also it's ...y'know ...not.
There WILL be new forums...I usually go through and read what's come up recently..and I tag the threads I am interested in. There's a "watch topic" "stop watching topic" thing to click on upper right side of page. That sends me e-mails to browse through. I understand the excitement of newcomers, just hope everyone realizes that until we get the new forums, this is how it is for now. Creating multiple new threads on topics that have been discussed multiple times..just creates a mess for the mods to clean up. Remember that we have new people arriving all the time.
I use mobile site alot to look around during breaks and such. You have to switch to full website to get the search function - which is annoying. So if there isnt a similar topic in the last 4-5 pages im gonna start the newest topic until it gets shut down. Or if i am just looking for an answer to a specific idea in my head i will wait till i get home and can spend time searching.
On topic of Kronos, i hope to heck they do not add this. This was an idea they had to remove plat from game that backfired. Now people will list items for sale for KR only. Cant even buy stuff for plat nowadays. And the inflation on KR is rediculous.
kreed99 said:I use mobile site alot to look around during breaks and such. You have to switch to full website to get the search function - which is annoying. So if there isnt a similar topic in the last 4-5 pages im gonna start the newest topic until it gets shut down. Or if i am just looking for an answer to a specific idea in my head i will wait till i get home and can spend time searching.
On topic of Kronos, i hope to heck they do not add this. This was an idea they had to remove plat from game that backfired. Now people will list items for sale for KR only. Cant even buy stuff for plat nowadays. And the inflation on KR is rediculous.
Imagine how annoying it is for the person that has to clean up all the repeats. :P Please try to see if there are other threads, to add onto instead of creating new duplicates. :) Eventually we will have better forums, can't do anything about that..til they are finished being created.
As has been noted, this will be a contested discussion over the issue but personally, I think they want to keep away from as much RL/In-Game cash exchanges as possible. Most notably because by doing so you taint an in-game process that encourages botting and gaming the systems to obtain the most platinum cheapening or ruining the experience for other more genuine experiences.
Im sure it is annoying, but im not a complete troll. And i can't recall any post that i actually created other than my intro? I usually do find my answers or i will just post on an already created topic. Im just saying sometimes i will post on a newer topic instead of contributing to an older topic cause i cant be bothered to search for the older ones. And when Bazgrim does post links i tend to follow them.
But we are off topic..... Kronos Bad, Plat farmers bad, just pay for a subscription and play the game without purchasing anything else with RL money. (The only exception would be another computer to play Pantheon with - 2box for life!)
Anyone who has played on the recent EQ TLP's during classic - kunark era has experienced first hand the toxic effect Krono's have on the server community. Trying to camp anything of
"value"; gebs, SMR, fbss et al and you'll be dealing with mage bot armies, krono farmers who won't break a sweat training you, wiping your group and taking over your camp. Don't even get me started on the /pickzone abuse lol.
Krono's are bad mmkay. <3
Heloisa said:Anyone who has played on the recent EQ TLP's during classic - kunark era has experienced first hand the toxic effect Krono's have on the server community. Trying to camp anything of
"value"; gebs, SMR, fbss et al and you'll be dealing with mage bot armies, krono farmers who won't break a sweat training you, wiping your group and taking over your camp. Don't even get me started on the /pickzone abuse lol.Krono's are bad mmkay. <3
I always giggle when I see this. Because it is the furthest thing from the truth. Kronos have only been around for the last few iterations of the progression servers. For the first 2 they did not exist... and guess what, there was the same issues as before. If farmers arent selling kronos, they will sell plat, or the items themselves.
I dont care if kronos exist, but their existence did not create botting and farming of those locations. The simplicity of eq, ability to run 12 instances of the game on 1 computer and the ease at which is was to hack and cheat in the game is what spawned these things. Not kronos.