Heloisa said:Anyone who has played on the recent EQ TLP's during classic - kunark era has experienced first hand the toxic effect Krono's have on the server community. Trying to camp anything of
"value"; gebs, SMR, fbss et al and you'll be dealing with mage bot armies, krono farmers who won't break a sweat training you, wiping your group and taking over your camp. Don't even get me started on the /pickzone abuse lol.Krono's are bad mmkay. <3
Exactly personally I don't want to see Pantheon descend into the pit of RMT..that is out there practically in every game..
Porygon said:Heloisa said:Anyone who has played on the recent EQ TLP's during classic - kunark era has experienced first hand the toxic effect Krono's have on the server community. Trying to camp anything of
"value"; gebs, SMR, fbss et al and you'll be dealing with mage bot armies, krono farmers who won't break a sweat training you, wiping your group and taking over your camp. Don't even get me started on the /pickzone abuse lol.Krono's are bad mmkay. <3
I always giggle when I see this. Because it is the furthest thing from the truth. Kronos have only been around for the last few iterations of the progression servers. For the first 2 they did not exist... and guess what, there was the same issues as before. If farmers arent selling kronos, they will sell plat, or the items themselves.
I dont care if kronos exist, but their existence did not create botting and farming of those locations. The simplicity of eq, ability to run 12 instances of the game on 1 computer and the ease at which is was to hack and cheat in the game is what spawned these things. Not kronos.
While it's true that plat-farming has been around for a long time (before in-game currency could be used to buy subscription activation items) it can't be denied that Kronos exacerbates the situation.
Right now on Coirnav server (where I'm currently playing) the GEBS sell for 1kr (1 Kronos). I saw at least 4 people selling GEBS for 1kr at same time yesterday. Kronos sell for 3300 to 3600 platinum on average. To me this was nuts so I simply said I was buying GEBS for plat and someone then contacted me and we made a deal for 2900. Which was 500+/-100 plat cheaper than buying it for Krono. I still think it was a bit overpriced though, but what can you do?
The troubling thing though isn't the price I paid for the GEBS though, it's the fact that Krono has literally become a currency. GEBS sell for 1kr, other items go for 2kr, 3kr and some even as high as 5kr (Rokyls Channeling Crystal was listed 5kr yesterday). And the sellers don't want platinum. They are simply selling items from the original game for kr's, then keep the kr's for later when new expansions come out and the amount of platinum will increase on the server, then later sell those kronos for much higher prices, or use them to trade for high end gear from the latest expansion that gets unlocked.
It's a pure speculation and business game... which would be fine if it was just about in-game currency, but with the kronos in play it becomes a very real monetary issue.
For the record 5 Kronos sell for 85$, so it literally costs you 85$ to buy Rokyls Channeling Crystal. And you think the price for fluff items in GTA V is bad? :)
Tralyan said:Bazgrim said:disposalist said:@Kittik I pledged well over a year ago now, maybe two, and even then I would post stuff and be referred to threads from many months if not years previous.
This forum is somewhat unusual in that it is a 'developer' forum. We are backers of a game that is only just in pre-alpha and developers *are* still interested in our thoughts *but* they can't possibly cope with thousands of threads.
Now, whilst I don't imagine they can keep up in real time even when we keep our thoughts together, they will certainly be greatly aided if when, say, they want to judge community feel on an issue, and they come to the forums and do a search, the posts on the subject they want to judge are in a single thread.
It actually helps the dev and reps (and us) to keep stuff in one thread. Personally I don't get forums that frown on necro threads. If it's still a relevant topic, why is that not the most sensible way to go?
As for reading several pages and maybe years' worth of comments on a subject, well, that's what forums are about no? Sure, you want your own feelings known, but they only way to actually get involved in an issue is to know what the rest of the community think too, no?
Anyway - please don't think of it as being dismissive or unhelpful when people throw links to other threads at you. It's actually the best way to proceed.
Usually the very next post after one of Bazgrim's amazing references and quotes summaries is from Kilsin, the Community Manager, saying thanks and closing the thread so further great comment isn't wasted.
Yes, this has come up a few times and I agree with the sentiment that it's important to not be a buzzkill. But if your thread gets closed because it's already been discussed at length, it's important to remember that it's nothing personal. It doesn't have to be a buzzkill. And there's nothing stopping you from adding the same thoughts to an existing thread. It is true that the main difference with these forums is that they are development forums, so the main purpose of them has always primarily been to interact with the developers as they develop the game, thus the streamlining of conversation so that the devs can more easily process it. We are kind of at a weird spot right now because as we speak, the game is shifting into a more of a testing phase. A good amount of the game has already been developed over the past 3-4 years of these forums, so there's less of a focus on discussing fundamental systems instead giving feedback what's already in the game. Plus, some people are under NDA while others are not. As such, more testing-focused forums would be ideal. Unfortunately, the new forums aren't ready yet due to some major issues with eCommerce, but they're getting there. I'm confident that things will be a lot better with the new forums, in part because the search function will be much more powerful and easy to use. In the meantime, we kinda just need to stick it out and make the best of what we have. I'm still really pleased to see that overall there have been a ton of newcomers due to the success of PAX, and that has lead to a ton of great discussion on the forums lately.
Kittik said:disposalist said:It actually helps the dev and reps (and us) to keep stuff in one thread.
Does it, does having a thread 20 pages long make it easier on the devs to find? Can they also not just use search to find multipule threads? Would a new thread created 5 days ago vs. a thread created 500 days ago not be better to have kept seperated so new/fresh/stupider information be seperated?
Yes it is absolutely easier to read one long thread than to use a broken search function to try to track down each individual thread, when most of them probably have very different titles. Threads will inevitably get lost. Each comment is dated, so I see no advantage to creating a new thread instead of tacking it onto an existing conversation, regardless of when the thread was originally created.
Y'know, I've been on these forums now since March of 2016. Not quite as long as some, but longer than many, and even I feel the same way as Kittik sometimes when I have an idea or a question I want to ask the community. I think of it, I use the search function, nothing comes up, but I STILL don't post a new thread because I worry I just missed it and it'll get locked.
Every time I see a new member create a new thread, the excitement is almost palpable as it seeps out from their words. They're so excited to talk about this new game they just found, so excited to discuss back and forth, so excited when they do a search and no results pop up so they think it's the first time.
And then *BAM*, "Sorry, game over. We know the search function is bad, but we expect you to try harder in spite of your excitement. Thread locked", all while saying they prefer things to be consolidated as they link multiple threads of the same topic. So all these new members lose that excitement and quietly drift away, and it makes me sad to see.
Perhaps, in the future, the forums should have a built in capability that the forum moderators could make use of. One that makes it easier to assimilate new threads into old threads, rather than locking new threads completely. That creates inclusion, rather than the feeling of isolation that new members might be feeling now.
I get it, Baz, I absolutely do ...but sometimes I wonder if the focus should be less making it "easier" for the devs, and more aboout drawing new potential subscribers in. Yes, it's a developer forum, but also it's ...y'know ...not.
Nailed it!!! I feel when I see the post with the endless links on them from some folks in here I think it actually hurts the community. Let them speak and help get them more into the conversation. It’s a forum and a community not some communist blog. We are all members here and have a voice.
Forum: a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. New or old…..
Ox
Bazgrim said:Kittik said:Ugh, I feel really bad about doing this, but a simple search of Kronos will wield results.
I'm not going to link it, because I think super old threads are boring, but for the most part it was discussed in lengh and is a highly contested thought with most leaning away from the idea.
Lol this pains me. No need to feel bad. And old threads are not boring if they're still relevant. You absolutely should review the previous discussion to see if you can find a definitive answer before starting it all over again. It takes a little digging sometimes, but it would take even more digging if there were 37 different threads on the same topic - the devs wouldn't have time to respond to all of them. And if it's more of a matter of opinion, it doesn't hurt to necro an old thread to add your thoughts. Again, that's preferred to streamline conversation and avoid the same thing being said over and over. But I understand that the search function is not very user friendly, especially if you are new. No game, no scolding, just trying to be helpful:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5180/rmt-selling-krono-vs-gold-farmers
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4830/the-p2p-system-of-pantheon/view/page/1
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2564/subscription-model/view/post_id/35798
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3112/form-of-payments/view/post_id/46992
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/search?query=krono&type=forum_post&submit=
Perhaps the most relevant quote from those threads is this one from Aradune:
"I've said all of this before but it does come up often, so I don't mind re-stating this when necessary:
First, no F2P/pay-to-win/cash shops. Period.
We will either use the good old sub model, or possibly a modular model, where you pay for the game, then each expansion, etc. We're not ready to set that in stone.
As for what the sub would be, the plan is the traditional $15 a month. Yes, we have talked with each other and the community and I think a lot of players, assuming we do make a great game, would pay more. And maybe we do explore premium servers. It's all possible. But, in general, if we go subs, to play Pantheon after the trial period, it would be $15 a month."
(Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2564/subscription-model/view/page/2 ;)
The highlighted portion means no Krono. He's always been very consistent and adamant about the payment model and not letting P2W creep into the game, thus why these old conversations are still relevant.
Thank you, Baz :)
Please make the effort to search for keywords, like "Kronos" to find that it has been discussed many times previously and has official replies.