Darch said: I only made this rant because of my concern after seeing some people posting dates of year+ long Betas. I would be interested in knowing how those games did. i.e. if they had unwaranted negative PR before going live or if there were competing games in the market during the same time.
Historically, the longer the pre-launch (alpha, beta, pre-alpha, early access) the worse the game has done, overall, since 2005. Games that permit customer access more than a year before the official launch target often never launch, or launch half-done, or have to compromise in some way with respect to launch. Most of the reason is that prior to 2005, pre-launch activities were limited to developers who were only interested in bug fixes. Fix the bugs, implement the feature, fix the bugs, iterate until done. Unpaid testers (the public) were used to simulate concurrency (which can be trivially scripted now, or accomplished with things like Loadrunner, Agilent/Spirent, Ixia, and similar solutions) load, and basically replicate launch day so they know where the bottlenecks are, to some degree. No more!
Now, all pre-launch access is used to data mine everything about the game so that those players who will be monetizing the MMO for their own profit will have the largest head start. It's not 1999 anymore, MMO's are a means to an end, and the end is profit, for some players. The longer the pre-launch access is, the firmer the grasp will be on market manipulation and data mining accuracy. Same goes regarding the problem of tester burnout. Everyone is very eager to login and test, the first time. The 100th, 200th, or 300th time? Meh.
However, this is all moot, because... you have to give the VIP's value for their money. They paid a lot for their pre-launch access, testing or not. If you don't give them hundreds of days, it ends up costing each player USD$10->$30 per day, which is pretty expensive in the long term. The last thing you want is angry VIP's, right? :)
After seeing the demo of pre-alpha from Pantheon's stream I would wager to say they still have all the major cities and medium cities left to create. They said pre-alpha was going to be about ensuring consistancy in scale, spacing and theme for racial cities. I would wager pre-alpha is going to be the longest at about 9 months. I believe alpha will be about testing combat, skills, environment effects, travelling, etc. and will last about 6 months. And beta would encorporate testing balance of both PCs and NPCs for solo, group, and raid content as well as stress testing zone capacity and load times, spawn rates, drop rates, equipment power, and many other minute features that go to help make the game balanced and friendly (ruthlessly brutal) to all. So about 1 year.
so, in summary:
pre-alpha - 9 months
alpha - 6 months
beta - 12 months
bryanleo9 said: I was extremely excited to watch the Thronefast making of the city video, only to see that the main city was empty, lacking. This lead to disappointment. I kept thinking that they haven't even started on the bigger content of Reignfall yet. No mention of where the gnomes will be, or the dwarves, or archai will start. The lore says a southern island, yet the map doesn't show this. When series A funding dries up I fear investors will look at the games current state and expect more. Many sceptics on the internet view this game as nothing more than vaporware. I hope they are wrong.
Just because they haven't shown the continent doesn't mean that it doesn't exist yet.
With that being said, just because an area doesn't exist yet doesn't mean that they haven't got a method in place to relatively expeditiosly stand up an area. Part of their time was writing the tools to do just that.
With both being said, they did say that during pre-alpha there would be alot of "grey box" infrastructure in place to be textured as time goes on. Texturing is relatively simple to do once you have the structures in place.
Here's a question that might be answerable by Kilsin. Will Alpha players be seeing placeholders for objects in the game? That would help me determine how long pre-alpha is going to be. If the artists are expected to completely finish the look/graphics for everything in the game before we move on to the next phase then we could be looking at much longer than I initially anticipated. This seems like something that Brad might have made a decision about at this point.
Frostyglitch said:Here's a question that might be answerable by Kilsin. Will Alpha players be seeing placeholders for objects in the game? That would help me determine how long pre-alpha is going to be. If the artists are expected to completely finish the look/graphics for everything in the game before we move on to the next phase then we could be looking at much longer than I initially anticipated. This seems like something that Brad might have made a decision about at this point.
As in Greyboxing? Probably.
Pre-alpha is basically a huge stress test to help us identify immediate game breaking bugs and exploits and to help us set up for much larger volumes of testers with the Alpha crowd, so there is no defined time limit for this other than what you all probably do or don't want to hear, depending on the individual and how much you care about the game's longevity, "When it's ready" is the best answer I can give you at the moment my friend.
Kilsin said:Frostyglitch said:Here's a question that might be answerable by Kilsin. Will Alpha players be seeing placeholders for objects in the game? That would help me determine how long pre-alpha is going to be. If the artists are expected to completely finish the look/graphics for everything in the game before we move on to the next phase then we could be looking at much longer than I initially anticipated. This seems like something that Brad might have made a decision about at this point.
As in Greyboxing? Probably.
Pre-alpha is basically a huge stress test to help us identify immediate game breaking bugs and exploits and to help us set up for much larger volumes of testers with the Alpha crowd, so there is no defined time limit for this other than what you all probably do or don't want to hear, depending on the individual and how much you care about the game's longevity, "When it's ready" is the best answer I can give you at the moment my friend.
TyanuKhah said:Kilsin said:Frostyglitch said:Here's a question that might be answerable by Kilsin. Will Alpha players be seeing placeholders for objects in the game? That would help me determine how long pre-alpha is going to be. If the artists are expected to completely finish the look/graphics for everything in the game before we move on to the next phase then we could be looking at much longer than I initially anticipated. This seems like something that Brad might have made a decision about at this point.
As in Greyboxing? Probably.
Pre-alpha is basically a huge stress test to help us identify immediate game breaking bugs and exploits and to help us set up for much larger volumes of testers with the Alpha crowd, so there is no defined time limit for this other than what you all probably do or don't want to hear, depending on the individual and how much you care about the game's longevity, "When it's ready" is the best answer I can give you at the moment my friend.
"When it's ready" Best 2017 answer
It was Brad's "best "answer" for Vanguard: Saga of Heroes all the way up until release in 2007 too.....hehehehe
Kilsin said:Take as long as you guys need to so we have a good product to play Kilsin:)Frostyglitch said:Here's a question that might be answerable by Kilsin. Will Alpha players be seeing placeholders for objects in the game? That would help me determine how long pre-alpha is going to be. If the artists are expected to completely finish the look/graphics for everything in the game before we move on to the next phase then we could be looking at much longer than I initially anticipated. This seems like something that Brad might have made a decision about at this point.
As in Greyboxing? Probably.
Pre-alpha is basically a huge stress test to help us identify immediate game breaking bugs and exploits and to help us set up for much larger volumes of testers with the Alpha crowd, so there is no defined time limit for this other than what you all probably do or don't want to hear, depending on the individual and how much you care about the game's longevity, "When it's ready" is the best answer I can give you at the moment my friend.
Kilsin said:Frostyglitch said:Here's a question that might be answerable by Kilsin. Will Alpha players be seeing placeholders for objects in the game? That would help me determine how long pre-alpha is going to be. If the artists are expected to completely finish the look/graphics for everything in the game before we move on to the next phase then we could be looking at much longer than I initially anticipated. This seems like something that Brad might have made a decision about at this point.
As in Greyboxing? Probably.
Pre-alpha is basically a huge stress test to help us identify immediate game breaking bugs and exploits and to help us set up for much larger volumes of testers with the Alpha crowd, so there is no defined time limit for this other than what you all probably do or don't want to hear, depending on the individual and how much you care about the game's longevity, "When it's ready" is the best answer I can give you at the moment my friend.
Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announce a date/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be feel rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
Frostyglitch said:Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announced a data/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be free rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
I dont see why having grey boxing would matter in alpha. Its not early access. Beta would be different, maybe but Beta I don't see the whole world being opened up either.
Zeem said:Frostyglitch said:Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announced a data/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be free rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
I dont see why having grey boxing would matter in alpha. Its not early access. Beta would be different, maybe but Beta I don't see the whole world being opened up either.
During beta the whole world should be live otherwise they won't have any way to test it. You don't want to wait until live to be opening and lewarning that areas have bugs. That's how you get a bad rep and chase off paying customers.
Kalok said:Zeem said:Frostyglitch said:Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announced a data/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be free rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
I dont see why having grey boxing would matter in alpha. Its not early access. Beta would be different, maybe but Beta I don't see the whole world being opened up either.
During beta the whole world should be live otherwise they won't have any way to test it. You don't want to wait until live to be opening and lewarning that areas have bugs. That's how you get a bad rep and chase off paying customers.
Dude you don't test the full world in beta. The world would be complete and each area may be tested by groups of people but each individual tech is tested in alpha so the world can be built out. I've done betas and I've hosted beats for my own software. Its for stress testing and final tuning which can be gathered in select testing scenarios with select gear and level. If you think in beta you will be able to run around free willy you will be sadly mistaken. Specific areas may be tested by select people but thats it.
Its called test cases, google it.
Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Frostyglitch said:Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announced a data/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be free rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
I dont see why having grey boxing would matter in alpha. Its not early access. Beta would be different, maybe but Beta I don't see the whole world being opened up either.
During beta the whole world should be live otherwise they won't have any way to test it. You don't want to wait until live to be opening and lewarning that areas have bugs. That's how you get a bad rep and chase off paying customers.
Dude you don't test the full world in beta. The world would be complete and each area may be tested by groups of people but each individual tech is tested in alpha so the world can be built out. I've done betas and I've hosted beats for my own software. Its for stress testing and final tuning which can be gathered in select testing scenarios with select gear and level. If you think in beta you will be able to run around free willy you will be sadly mistaken. Specific areas may be tested by select people but thats it.
Its called test cases, google it.
Beta is for FINAL TESTING before go-live. You can't test what's not there. If you try that nonsense, you will end up like Vanguard your live game is so buggy you chase everyone off. Ideally your entire world is built and tested BEFORE beta so that beta is final tweaks and fixes. That STILL is a part of what I posted. Your whole world has to exist in beta. Stress testing is ALSO a part of beta. Ideally, stress testing should be happening before beta too, If it doesn't you're looking to fail miserably. Just because you "can't run around free willy" doesn't mean that the whole world won't exist and be in place. Although, ideally you SHOULD "be able tu run around free willy" in beta in order to test things like zoning and other things.
Tell me what software you make so that I don't buy it. I don't want to buy any software that isn't FULLY tested by the time it is released. Having been in the IT industry for over 31 years now as a systems and network enginer, I've seen first-hand what happens when you do that crap and unleash half-bakerd software on your customers. It's bad enough that Microsoft pulls that crap.
Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Frostyglitch said:Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announced a data/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be free rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
I dont see why having grey boxing would matter in alpha. Its not early access. Beta would be different, maybe but Beta I don't see the whole world being opened up either.
During beta the whole world should be live otherwise they won't have any way to test it. You don't want to wait until live to be opening and lewarning that areas have bugs. That's how you get a bad rep and chase off paying customers.
Dude you don't test the full world in beta. The world would be complete and each area may be tested by groups of people but each individual tech is tested in alpha so the world can be built out. I've done betas and I've hosted beats for my own software. Its for stress testing and final tuning which can be gathered in select testing scenarios with select gear and level. If you think in beta you will be able to run around free willy you will be sadly mistaken. Specific areas may be tested by select people but thats it.
Its called test cases, google it.
Beta is for FINAL TESTING before go-live. You can't test what's not there. If you try that nonsense, you will end up like Vanguard your live game is so buggy you chase everyone off. Ideally your entire world is built and tested BEFORE beta so that beta is final tweaks and fixes. That STILL is a part of what I posted. Your whole world has to exist in beta. Stress testing is ALSO a part of beta. Ideally, stress testing should be happening before beta too, If it doesn't you're looking to fail miserably. Just because you "can't run around free willy" doesn't mean that the whole world won't exist and be in place. Although, ideally you SHOULD "be able tu run around free willy" in beta in order to test things like zoning and other things.
Tell me what software you make so that I don't buy it. I don't want to buy any software that isn't FULLY tested by the time it is released. Having been in the IT industry for over 31 years now as a systems and network enginer, I've seen first-hand what happens when you do that crap and unleash half-bakerd software on your customers. It's bad enough that Microsoft pulls that crap.
Dont worry you can't buy my software, DOD proprietary only.
I'll bite Grandpa, explain how beta should go. And please use the capslock where you need too to make a point it helps me read better.
Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Frostyglitch said:Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announced a data/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be free rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
I dont see why having grey boxing would matter in alpha. Its not early access. Beta would be different, maybe but Beta I don't see the whole world being opened up either.
During beta the whole world should be live otherwise they won't have any way to test it. You don't want to wait until live to be opening and lewarning that areas have bugs. That's how you get a bad rep and chase off paying customers.
Dude you don't test the full world in beta. The world would be complete and each area may be tested by groups of people but each individual tech is tested in alpha so the world can be built out. I've done betas and I've hosted beats for my own software. Its for stress testing and final tuning which can be gathered in select testing scenarios with select gear and level. If you think in beta you will be able to run around free willy you will be sadly mistaken. Specific areas may be tested by select people but thats it.
Its called test cases, google it.
Beta is for FINAL TESTING before go-live. You can't test what's not there. If you try that nonsense, you will end up like Vanguard your live game is so buggy you chase everyone off. Ideally your entire world is built and tested BEFORE beta so that beta is final tweaks and fixes. That STILL is a part of what I posted. Your whole world has to exist in beta. Stress testing is ALSO a part of beta. Ideally, stress testing should be happening before beta too, If it doesn't you're looking to fail miserably. Just because you "can't run around free willy" doesn't mean that the whole world won't exist and be in place. Although, ideally you SHOULD "be able tu run around free willy" in beta in order to test things like zoning and other things.
Tell me what software you make so that I don't buy it. I don't want to buy any software that isn't FULLY tested by the time it is released. Having been in the IT industry for over 31 years now as a systems and network enginer, I've seen first-hand what happens when you do that crap and unleash half-bakerd software on your customers. It's bad enough that Microsoft pulls that crap.
Dont worry you can't buy my software, DOD proprietary only.
I'll bite Grandpa, explain how beta should go. And please use the capslock where you need too to make a point it helps me read better.
Actually, I spent multiple years on DoD systems, having spent four years in the military and working for government contractors such as McDonnell-Douglas. I remember, At Mcdonnel-D, when they said that the Apache Longbow IFF software was finished for the radar identification system and "tested". Until they brought in a Hind helicopter and the software kept identifying it as a Blackhawk and wouldn't let the gunner "fire" at it. Until it's tested under "real world" conditions, which means feature complete, you're begging for trouble.
Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Frostyglitch said:Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announced a data/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be free rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
I dont see why having grey boxing would matter in alpha. Its not early access. Beta would be different, maybe but Beta I don't see the whole world being opened up either.
During beta the whole world should be live otherwise they won't have any way to test it. You don't want to wait until live to be opening and lewarning that areas have bugs. That's how you get a bad rep and chase off paying customers.
Dude you don't test the full world in beta. The world would be complete and each area may be tested by groups of people but each individual tech is tested in alpha so the world can be built out. I've done betas and I've hosted beats for my own software. Its for stress testing and final tuning which can be gathered in select testing scenarios with select gear and level. If you think in beta you will be able to run around free willy you will be sadly mistaken. Specific areas may be tested by select people but thats it.
Its called test cases, google it.
Beta is for FINAL TESTING before go-live. You can't test what's not there. If you try that nonsense, you will end up like Vanguard your live game is so buggy you chase everyone off. Ideally your entire world is built and tested BEFORE beta so that beta is final tweaks and fixes. That STILL is a part of what I posted. Your whole world has to exist in beta. Stress testing is ALSO a part of beta. Ideally, stress testing should be happening before beta too, If it doesn't you're looking to fail miserably. Just because you "can't run around free willy" doesn't mean that the whole world won't exist and be in place. Although, ideally you SHOULD "be able tu run around free willy" in beta in order to test things like zoning and other things.
Tell me what software you make so that I don't buy it. I don't want to buy any software that isn't FULLY tested by the time it is released. Having been in the IT industry for over 31 years now as a systems and network enginer, I've seen first-hand what happens when you do that crap and unleash half-bakerd software on your customers. It's bad enough that Microsoft pulls that crap.
Dont worry you can't buy my software, DOD proprietary only.
I'll bite Grandpa, explain how beta should go. And please use the capslock where you need too to make a point it helps me read better.
Actually, I spent multiple years on DoD systems, having spent four years in the military and working for government contractors such as McDonnell-Douglas. I remember, At Mcdonnel-D, when they said that the Apache Longbow IFF software was finished for the radar identification system and "tested". Until they brought in a Hind helicopter and the software kept identifying it as a Blackhawk and wouldn't let the gunner "fire" at it. Until it's tested under "real world" conditions, which means feature complete, you're begging for trouble.
Man don;t go off topic bro, I didnt post my resume, I sent it to VR actually. I don;t spend time "on" systems I built them. What you are describing is an example as why this and the other you don;t know anything about "code". I do love your drive but give it a rest.
Maybe this will help. You test the tech, each part. A fake mission setup to mimic real world events which is alpha and a fake scenario in beta. You dont test the mission which is launch and the whole world open.
Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Frostyglitch said:Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announced a data/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be free rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
I dont see why having grey boxing would matter in alpha. Its not early access. Beta would be different, maybe but Beta I don't see the whole world being opened up either.
During beta the whole world should be live otherwise they won't have any way to test it. You don't want to wait until live to be opening and lewarning that areas have bugs. That's how you get a bad rep and chase off paying customers.
Dude you don't test the full world in beta. The world would be complete and each area may be tested by groups of people but each individual tech is tested in alpha so the world can be built out. I've done betas and I've hosted beats for my own software. Its for stress testing and final tuning which can be gathered in select testing scenarios with select gear and level. If you think in beta you will be able to run around free willy you will be sadly mistaken. Specific areas may be tested by select people but thats it.
Its called test cases, google it.
Beta is for FINAL TESTING before go-live. You can't test what's not there. If you try that nonsense, you will end up like Vanguard your live game is so buggy you chase everyone off. Ideally your entire world is built and tested BEFORE beta so that beta is final tweaks and fixes. That STILL is a part of what I posted. Your whole world has to exist in beta. Stress testing is ALSO a part of beta. Ideally, stress testing should be happening before beta too, If it doesn't you're looking to fail miserably. Just because you "can't run around free willy" doesn't mean that the whole world won't exist and be in place. Although, ideally you SHOULD "be able tu run around free willy" in beta in order to test things like zoning and other things.
Tell me what software you make so that I don't buy it. I don't want to buy any software that isn't FULLY tested by the time it is released. Having been in the IT industry for over 31 years now as a systems and network enginer, I've seen first-hand what happens when you do that crap and unleash half-bakerd software on your customers. It's bad enough that Microsoft pulls that crap.
Dont worry you can't buy my software, DOD proprietary only.
I'll bite Grandpa, explain how beta should go. And please use the capslock where you need too to make a point it helps me read better.
Actually, I spent multiple years on DoD systems, having spent four years in the military and working for government contractors such as McDonnell-Douglas. I remember, At Mcdonnel-D, when they said that the Apache Longbow IFF software was finished for the radar identification system and "tested". Until they brought in a Hind helicopter and the software kept identifying it as a Blackhawk and wouldn't let the gunner "fire" at it. Until it's tested under "real world" conditions, which means feature complete, you're begging for trouble.
Man don;t go off topic bro, I didnt post my resume, I sent it to VR actually. I don;t spend time "on" systems I built them. What you are describing is an example as why this and the other you don;t know anything about "code". I do love your drive but give it a rest.
Except that's where you're wrong, but I am through debating with you. You're just trying to turn all of the threads into some sort of argument. Maybe you need to go take a nap or something.
Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Frostyglitch said:Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announced a data/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be free rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
I dont see why having grey boxing would matter in alpha. Its not early access. Beta would be different, maybe but Beta I don't see the whole world being opened up either.
During beta the whole world should be live otherwise they won't have any way to test it. You don't want to wait until live to be opening and lewarning that areas have bugs. That's how you get a bad rep and chase off paying customers.
Dude you don't test the full world in beta. The world would be complete and each area may be tested by groups of people but each individual tech is tested in alpha so the world can be built out. I've done betas and I've hosted beats for my own software. Its for stress testing and final tuning which can be gathered in select testing scenarios with select gear and level. If you think in beta you will be able to run around free willy you will be sadly mistaken. Specific areas may be tested by select people but thats it.
Its called test cases, google it.
Beta is for FINAL TESTING before go-live. You can't test what's not there. If you try that nonsense, you will end up like Vanguard your live game is so buggy you chase everyone off. Ideally your entire world is built and tested BEFORE beta so that beta is final tweaks and fixes. That STILL is a part of what I posted. Your whole world has to exist in beta. Stress testing is ALSO a part of beta. Ideally, stress testing should be happening before beta too, If it doesn't you're looking to fail miserably. Just because you "can't run around free willy" doesn't mean that the whole world won't exist and be in place. Although, ideally you SHOULD "be able tu run around free willy" in beta in order to test things like zoning and other things.
Tell me what software you make so that I don't buy it. I don't want to buy any software that isn't FULLY tested by the time it is released. Having been in the IT industry for over 31 years now as a systems and network enginer, I've seen first-hand what happens when you do that crap and unleash half-bakerd software on your customers. It's bad enough that Microsoft pulls that crap.
Dont worry you can't buy my software, DOD proprietary only.
I'll bite Grandpa, explain how beta should go. And please use the capslock where you need too to make a point it helps me read better.
Actually, I spent multiple years on DoD systems, having spent four years in the military and working for government contractors such as McDonnell-Douglas. I remember, At Mcdonnel-D, when they said that the Apache Longbow IFF software was finished for the radar identification system and "tested". Until they brought in a Hind helicopter and the software kept identifying it as a Blackhawk and wouldn't let the gunner "fire" at it. Until it's tested under "real world" conditions, which means feature complete, you're begging for trouble.
Man don;t go off topic bro, I didnt post my resume, I sent it to VR actually. I don;t spend time "on" systems I built them. What you are describing is an example as why this and the other you don;t know anything about "code". I do love your drive but give it a rest.
Except that's where you're wrong, but I am through debating with you. You're just trying to turn all of the threads into some sort of argument. Maybe you need to go take a nap or something.
Goodnight Grandpa.
Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Frostyglitch said:Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announced a data/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be free rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
I dont see why having grey boxing would matter in alpha. Its not early access. Beta would be different, maybe but Beta I don't see the whole world being opened up either.
During beta the whole world should be live otherwise they won't have any way to test it. You don't want to wait until live to be opening and lewarning that areas have bugs. That's how you get a bad rep and chase off paying customers.
Dude you don't test the full world in beta. The world would be complete and each area may be tested by groups of people but each individual tech is tested in alpha so the world can be built out. I've done betas and I've hosted beats for my own software. Its for stress testing and final tuning which can be gathered in select testing scenarios with select gear and level. If you think in beta you will be able to run around free willy you will be sadly mistaken. Specific areas may be tested by select people but thats it.
Its called test cases, google it.
Beta is for FINAL TESTING before go-live. You can't test what's not there. If you try that nonsense, you will end up like Vanguard your live game is so buggy you chase everyone off. Ideally your entire world is built and tested BEFORE beta so that beta is final tweaks and fixes. That STILL is a part of what I posted. Your whole world has to exist in beta. Stress testing is ALSO a part of beta. Ideally, stress testing should be happening before beta too, If it doesn't you're looking to fail miserably. Just because you "can't run around free willy" doesn't mean that the whole world won't exist and be in place. Although, ideally you SHOULD "be able tu run around free willy" in beta in order to test things like zoning and other things.
Tell me what software you make so that I don't buy it. I don't want to buy any software that isn't FULLY tested by the time it is released. Having been in the IT industry for over 31 years now as a systems and network enginer, I've seen first-hand what happens when you do that crap and unleash half-bakerd software on your customers. It's bad enough that Microsoft pulls that crap.
Dont worry you can't buy my software, DOD proprietary only.
I'll bite Grandpa, explain how beta should go. And please use the capslock where you need too to make a point it helps me read better.
Actually, I spent multiple years on DoD systems, having spent four years in the military and working for government contractors such as McDonnell-Douglas. I remember, At Mcdonnel-D, when they said that the Apache Longbow IFF software was finished for the radar identification system and "tested". Until they brought in a Hind helicopter and the software kept identifying it as a Blackhawk and wouldn't let the gunner "fire" at it. Until it's tested under "real world" conditions, which means feature complete, you're begging for trouble.
Man don;t go off topic bro, I didnt post my resume, I sent it to VR actually. I don;t spend time "on" systems I built them. What you are describing is an example as why this and the other you don;t know anything about "code". I do love your drive but give it a rest.
Except that's where you're wrong, but I am through debating with you. You're just trying to turn all of the threads into some sort of argument. Maybe you need to go take a nap or something.
Goodnight Grandpa.
The funny part is that you think that's an insult.
Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Frostyglitch said:Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announced a data/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be free rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
I dont see why having grey boxing would matter in alpha. Its not early access. Beta would be different, maybe but Beta I don't see the whole world being opened up either.
During beta the whole world should be live otherwise they won't have any way to test it. You don't want to wait until live to be opening and lewarning that areas have bugs. That's how you get a bad rep and chase off paying customers.
Dude you don't test the full world in beta. The world would be complete and each area may be tested by groups of people but each individual tech is tested in alpha so the world can be built out. I've done betas and I've hosted beats for my own software. Its for stress testing and final tuning which can be gathered in select testing scenarios with select gear and level. If you think in beta you will be able to run around free willy you will be sadly mistaken. Specific areas may be tested by select people but thats it.
Its called test cases, google it.
Beta is for FINAL TESTING before go-live. You can't test what's not there. If you try that nonsense, you will end up like Vanguard your live game is so buggy you chase everyone off. Ideally your entire world is built and tested BEFORE beta so that beta is final tweaks and fixes. That STILL is a part of what I posted. Your whole world has to exist in beta. Stress testing is ALSO a part of beta. Ideally, stress testing should be happening before beta too, If it doesn't you're looking to fail miserably. Just because you "can't run around free willy" doesn't mean that the whole world won't exist and be in place. Although, ideally you SHOULD "be able tu run around free willy" in beta in order to test things like zoning and other things.
Tell me what software you make so that I don't buy it. I don't want to buy any software that isn't FULLY tested by the time it is released. Having been in the IT industry for over 31 years now as a systems and network enginer, I've seen first-hand what happens when you do that crap and unleash half-bakerd software on your customers. It's bad enough that Microsoft pulls that crap.
Dont worry you can't buy my software, DOD proprietary only.
I'll bite Grandpa, explain how beta should go. And please use the capslock where you need too to make a point it helps me read better.
Actually, I spent multiple years on DoD systems, having spent four years in the military and working for government contractors such as McDonnell-Douglas. I remember, At Mcdonnel-D, when they said that the Apache Longbow IFF software was finished for the radar identification system and "tested". Until they brought in a Hind helicopter and the software kept identifying it as a Blackhawk and wouldn't let the gunner "fire" at it. Until it's tested under "real world" conditions, which means feature complete, you're begging for trouble.
Man don;t go off topic bro, I didnt post my resume, I sent it to VR actually. I don;t spend time "on" systems I built them. What you are describing is an example as why this and the other you don;t know anything about "code". I do love your drive but give it a rest.
Except that's where you're wrong, but I am through debating with you. You're just trying to turn all of the threads into some sort of argument. Maybe you need to go take a nap or something.
Goodnight Grandpa.
The funny part is that you think that's an insult.
Funny part is you think, I think its an insult. I actually like you and your leather jacket and beard. Respect to you given and I'd like to meet you irl. :) You are passoniate about this game like me, I love it.
Like my profile pic, really describes me. If you really understood Q from star trek as a inquistive person on things he don't know, you might know me.
Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Frostyglitch said:Yeah I've been on the forums far too long to expect anyone to announced a data/time. For that matter anyone who's ever been part of the process of making an MMO like I have knows that. Which is why I asked if greyboxing or placeholders would be in alpha because I imagine it's going to be quite a while before those aren't a thing anymore in some capacity. I figured by now Brad likely knows if he wants alpha testers to be seeing those or not since it will effect such a large amount of players. But maybe he hasn't made mention of it, in which case who knows.
I totally agree Pantheon will be ready when it's ready and nobody should be free rushed. The good news is it sounds like streams are going to be coming out more frequently and potentially by multiple people.
I dont see why having grey boxing would matter in alpha. Its not early access. Beta would be different, maybe but Beta I don't see the whole world being opened up either.
During beta the whole world should be live otherwise they won't have any way to test it. You don't want to wait until live to be opening and lewarning that areas have bugs. That's how you get a bad rep and chase off paying customers.
Dude you don't test the full world in beta. The world would be complete and each area may be tested by groups of people but each individual tech is tested in alpha so the world can be built out. I've done betas and I've hosted beats for my own software. Its for stress testing and final tuning which can be gathered in select testing scenarios with select gear and level. If you think in beta you will be able to run around free willy you will be sadly mistaken. Specific areas may be tested by select people but thats it.
Its called test cases, google it.
Beta is for FINAL TESTING before go-live. You can't test what's not there. If you try that nonsense, you will end up like Vanguard your live game is so buggy you chase everyone off. Ideally your entire world is built and tested BEFORE beta so that beta is final tweaks and fixes. That STILL is a part of what I posted. Your whole world has to exist in beta. Stress testing is ALSO a part of beta. Ideally, stress testing should be happening before beta too, If it doesn't you're looking to fail miserably. Just because you "can't run around free willy" doesn't mean that the whole world won't exist and be in place. Although, ideally you SHOULD "be able tu run around free willy" in beta in order to test things like zoning and other things.
Tell me what software you make so that I don't buy it. I don't want to buy any software that isn't FULLY tested by the time it is released. Having been in the IT industry for over 31 years now as a systems and network enginer, I've seen first-hand what happens when you do that crap and unleash half-bakerd software on your customers. It's bad enough that Microsoft pulls that crap.
Dont worry you can't buy my software, DOD proprietary only.
I'll bite Grandpa, explain how beta should go. And please use the capslock where you need too to make a point it helps me read better.
Actually, I spent multiple years on DoD systems, having spent four years in the military and working for government contractors such as McDonnell-Douglas. I remember, At Mcdonnel-D, when they said that the Apache Longbow IFF software was finished for the radar identification system and "tested". Until they brought in a Hind helicopter and the software kept identifying it as a Blackhawk and wouldn't let the gunner "fire" at it. Until it's tested under "real world" conditions, which means feature complete, you're begging for trouble.
Man don;t go off topic bro, I didnt post my resume, I sent it to VR actually. I don;t spend time "on" systems I built them. What you are describing is an example as why this and the other you don;t know anything about "code". I do love your drive but give it a rest.
Except that's where you're wrong, but I am through debating with you. You're just trying to turn all of the threads into some sort of argument. Maybe you need to go take a nap or something.
Goodnight Grandpa.
The funny part is that you think that's an insult.
Funny part is you think, I think its an insult. I actually like you and your leather jacket and beard. Respect to you given and I'd like to meet you irl. :) You are passoniate about this game like me, I love it.
Like my profile pic, really describes me. If you really understood Q from star trek as a inquistive person on things he don't know, you might know me.
Never really got into Star Trek TNG. I preferred the original, the animated version, and Enterprise. What little I know about Q from the few episodes that I saw, he was a troublemaker that thought he was better than everyone else.
My leather VEST is my club vest as we were on our 5th annual toy ride for Phoenix Childrens Hospital, which is a club event.
Kalok said:Never really got into Star Trek TNG. I preferred the original, the animated version, and Enterprise. What little I know about Q from the few episodes that I saw, he was a troublemaker that thought he was better than everyone else.
My leather VEST is my club vest as we were on our 5th annual toy ride for Phoenix Childrens Hospital, which is a club event.
Ive seen them all. He appears in Voyager as well. Q was an being who could do everything and was immortal, but his goal was to learn more. In Voyager he really shinned.
Case in point, take all aspect of a person into consideration for judgement vs a few. :)
Yeah, I used to ride bro, I need another bike.