Forums » News and Announcements

Pantheon: Class and Race Combinations

    • 614 posts
    March 23, 2017 4:51 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

     

    The fact that the mask is what gives them life was stated by Joppa in this video starting at the 49:20 mark.

    Oh, I didn't know obscure parts of videos were considered not only part of the lore, but the only source of full game lore. I wonder if VR plans on writing these things down sometime.

    Thanks for the link!

    EDIT: he says "mainly the mask" so the rest of their bodies do matter.


    This post was edited by BeaverBiscuit at March 23, 2017 4:54 PM PDT
    • 1907 posts
    March 23, 2017 4:56 PM PDT

    This is the job of their new Lore man, Jimmayus. Hopefully it gets done soon.

    • 1907 posts
    March 23, 2017 5:02 PM PDT

    BeaverBiscuit said:

    Kilsin said:

    Gnomes cannot tank due to their physical nature of being held together by their masks, the lore explains this well.

    They bind their souls into the cloth, but where does it say they are not tanky, or that the mask, as opposed to the cloth, is what holds them together?

    In addition, Humans work thanks to their brains, their heads are probably not much more tanky to a giant monster claw than the mask or cloth.

    Is there another thread anywhere about whether gnomes can wear armor? or do they assimilate better cloth?

    Humans bone and muscle structure support the wearing of armor on their squishy heads and other parts.

    • 4377 posts
    March 23, 2017 5:05 PM PDT

    Beefcake said:

    This is the job of their new Lore man, Jimmayus. Hopefully it gets done soon.

    Aye, it'd be nice to have things in one place. But even still, it's important to remember that a TON of info is being intentionally withheld from us so that it becomes more clear as we uncover things in-game. The lore we know about is still just the tip of the iceberg. It's better that way.

    • 1907 posts
    March 23, 2017 5:09 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Beefcake said:

    This is the job of their new Lore man, Jimmayus. Hopefully it gets done soon.

    Aye, it'd be nice to have things in one place. But even still, it's important to remember that a TON of info is being intentionally withheld from us so that it becomes more clear as we uncover things in-game. The lore we know about is still just the tip of the iceberg. It's better that way.

    Not to mention, potentially changed.

    • 614 posts
    March 23, 2017 5:10 PM PDT

    Beefcake said:

    Humans bone and muscle structure support the wearing of armor on their squishy heads and other parts.

    And if gnomes can hold and swing weapons as well as a human, then they can wear armor just as well, too. In fact the enchanted cloth, and the harder parts like the mask, could theoretically be better than skin and bone. Not really a hard standard to beat when you are up against weapons.


    This post was edited by BeaverBiscuit at March 23, 2017 5:12 PM PDT
    • 1907 posts
    March 23, 2017 5:13 PM PDT

    To quote Queen, "It's a kind of magic."

    • 4377 posts
    March 23, 2017 6:07 PM PDT

    Beefcake said:

    Bazgrim said:

    Beefcake said:

    This is the job of their new Lore man, Jimmayus. Hopefully it gets done soon.

    Aye, it'd be nice to have things in one place. But even still, it's important to remember that a TON of info is being intentionally withheld from us so that it becomes more clear as we uncover things in-game. The lore we know about is still just the tip of the iceberg. It's better that way.

    Not to mention, potentially changed.

    Yeah, potentially. It's certainly changed in the past. Although I'd like to think that they've got most of the public knowledge lore nailed down by now. But the point is that the lore on the website is not the be-all, end-all of lore about Terminus.

    • Moderator
    • 8788 posts
    March 23, 2017 8:51 PM PDT

    BeaverBiscuit said:

    Bazgrim said:

     

    The fact that the mask is what gives them life was stated by Joppa in this video starting at the 49:20 mark.

    Oh, I didn't know obscure parts of videos were considered not only part of the lore, but the only source of full game lore. I wonder if VR plans on writing these things down sometime.

    Thanks for the link!

    EDIT: he says "mainly the mask" so the rest of their bodies do matter.

    You're welcome to contribute to the Wiki then, it is free for any public member to add information and then you can make sure it is all in one place.

    https://pantheonriseofthefallen.gamepedia.com/Pantheon:_Rise_of_the_Fallen_Wiki

    • 4377 posts
    March 24, 2017 2:17 AM PDT

    BeaverBiscuit said:

    he says "mainly the mask" so the rest of their bodies do matter.

    It's my understanding that the mask is the source of life and the cloth is kinda what contains and keeps it from dissipating into oblivion. So of course the cloth matters. And while we don't know exactly how their bodies work, there's clearly something about being ethereal that does not lend itself to tanking :P

    • 777 posts
    March 24, 2017 7:09 AM PDT

    Simply not having

    • Dark Myr Bards?

    •      The Bard’s abilities aren’t limited to just buffing and uplifting their allies. Some of their songs will also demoralize foes, or manifest sonic based attacks. The Dark Myr definitely fit this side of the bard more so than most of the other “civilized” races.

    Bard and Necro are not official launch classes but we included them anyway as we are working hard on trying to make them launch classes, please don't hate us if we can't get them ready in time, though! :)

     

    I think would honestly hurt the game. Many of us loved the Bard, and Necromancers. One of the top classes played in EQ from 1999 to 2004, leaving the bard in the dust after 2008? but the necro being the top parser until 2017.

    So yes, not having them could hurt what people enjoyed so much. It isnt always the class but what they remember playing as thier first character that ment something. 

    Expect a ton of feedback on these two classes, and expect a ton of you need to fix this, because there will be some very picky players out there now.

     

    • 614 posts
    March 26, 2017 1:41 AM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    BeaverBiscuit said:

    he says "mainly the mask" so the rest of their bodies do matter.

    It's my understanding that the mask is the source of life and the cloth is kinda what contains and keeps it from dissipating into oblivion. So of course the cloth matters. And while we don't know exactly how their bodies work, there's clearly something about being ethereal that does not lend itself to tanking :P

    Yea i'll give you the point, at least up until ghosts resisting physical weapons. But I still stand by mine that the human body isn't exactly fantastic for tanking on it's own either. It's the armor, the smarts to make it, and the strength to weild it that makes them tanky.

    All of that said, Gnomes have physical bits outlining their whole body, so I don't think they can be considered ethereal. Their souls possess cloth, just as religion claims souls posess bodys.


    This post was edited by BeaverBiscuit at March 26, 2017 1:50 AM PDT
    • 1907 posts
    March 26, 2017 7:55 AM PDT

    BeaverBiscuit said:

    Bazgrim said:

    BeaverBiscuit said:

    he says "mainly the mask" so the rest of their bodies do matter.

    It's my understanding that the mask is the source of life and the cloth is kinda what contains and keeps it from dissipating into oblivion. So of course the cloth matters. And while we don't know exactly how their bodies work, there's clearly something about being ethereal that does not lend itself to tanking :P

    Yea i'll give you the point, at least up until ghosts resisting physical weapons. But I still stand by mine that the human body isn't exactly fantastic for tanking on it's own either. It's the armor, the smarts to make it, and the strength to weild it that makes them tanky.

    All of that said, Gnomes have physical bits outlining their whole body, so I don't think they can be considered ethereal. Their souls possess cloth, just as religion claims souls posess bodys.

    You gotta love it when people argue that they know the lore and racial features better than those that wrote it.

    • 3385 posts
    March 26, 2017 9:28 PM PDT

    I am really hoping to see bards and necros included at launch.  If they aren't included, wouldn't the raids need to be designed around not having them available?  Let's say they make it into the game shortly after launch ... do all of the raids now need to be modified to compensate for this new surge in power?

    My guess is that we see both necro and bard on launch.  It doesen't make sense to add a class a month or two later.  These need to be added when there is a huge content update to make sure that everything is balanced.  That's just my opinion of course ... but the only way it makes sense is at launch, or at some major patch later.  For the sake of my 6 friends who are committed to playing bard mains ... I'm hoping for the former.  We need bards for raiding!  Necros need <3 too!

    • 614 posts
    March 26, 2017 9:37 PM PDT

    Beefcake said:

    BeaverBiscuit said:

    Bazgrim said:

    BeaverBiscuit said:

    he says "mainly the mask" so the rest of their bodies do matter.

    It's my understanding that the mask is the source of life and the cloth is kinda what contains and keeps it from dissipating into oblivion. So of course the cloth matters. And while we don't know exactly how their bodies work, there's clearly something about being ethereal that does not lend itself to tanking :P

    Yea i'll give you the point, at least up until ghosts resisting physical weapons. But I still stand by mine that the human body isn't exactly fantastic for tanking on it's own either. It's the armor, the smarts to make it, and the strength to weild it that makes them tanky.

    All of that said, Gnomes have physical bits outlining their whole body, so I don't think they can be considered ethereal. Their souls possess cloth, just as religion claims souls posess bodys.

    You gotta love it when people argue that they know the lore and racial features better than those that wrote it.

    When did I say I know the lore better than VR? I said gnomes have physical bodies. Is there another movie stating that the cloth is ethereal? If you swing a sword at them do you hit the ethereal soul part or the mask/cloth?


    This post was edited by BeaverBiscuit at March 26, 2017 9:38 PM PDT
    • 295 posts
    March 27, 2017 4:45 AM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    I am really hoping to see bards and necros included at launch.  If they aren't included, wouldn't the raids need to be designed around not having them available?  Let's say they make it into the game shortly after launch ... do all of the raids now need to be modified to compensate for this new surge in power?

    My guess is that we see both necro and bard on launch.  It doesen't make sense to add a class a month or two later.  These need to be added when there is a huge content update to make sure that everything is balanced.  That's just my opinion of course ... but the only way it makes sense is at launch, or at some major patch later.  For the sake of my 6 friends who are committed to playing bard mains ... I'm hoping for the former.  We need bards for raiding!  Necros need <3 too!

    With enough alcohol anyone can be a bard and sing ... badly.


    This post was edited by Retsof at March 27, 2017 4:46 AM PDT
    • 213 posts
    March 28, 2017 5:38 PM PDT

    Pantz said:

    Still curious about the lore behind why Archai can be Wizards and not Summoners. Being infused with elements seems like they would be great for Summoners. Maybe that's not what Summoning magic is based on? What's the deal?

     

    It could be more a psycological limitation. If the Archai were created to be slaves perhaps, they find the idea of forcing another being to serve them abhorent? Beefcake made imo a good point in reminding us that VR is in essence creating lore to fit their vision of Pantheon. Perhaps the reason there's a limited amount of races that can be clerics is because, druids and shamans may be able to equally fulfill a healing. This may mean with a different mechanic/mythod? We'll see in time as the Devs reveal things to us. I think the Devs are also trying to acclimate us to Pantheon. The different class/race combos may be their way of easing us into the transition from how things were done in other games to how things will work in Pantheon.

    • 46 posts
    April 4, 2017 8:21 AM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Pantheon: Class and Race Combinations


    Here’s a diagram depicting our initial thoughts for Race and Class combos. This is largely based upon the current lore for each race paired with the flavor for each class. Additionally, as we continue on the road to public release (and beyond with live events and expansions), new Races, new Classes, and new combinations may become available.

    ClassRacechart4.jpg
    Some of these may stand out as a bit...well, unconventional. A quick word on a few of these:

     “The Odd Ones”

    • Ogre Druid?

      •      Our Druids are about the cycles of nature, the dance between predator and prey. Their powers draw from the forces of nature, like Lightning, Earthquakes, Wildfires, as well as the restorative and transformative sides of Nature. Think of them less as paragons of peace and some ideal of what Nature could or should be, and rather as reflecting what Nature is. Ogres fit this space as the wolf in the weeds.

    • Gnomes only have spell casters and rogues available?

      •      This is reflective of their culture. They are nearly singularly focused in their pursuit of the arcane and hidden secrets. In lieu of training in martial skills they’ve put effort in creating or summoning golems, homunculi, and other forms of false life to protect their grand works.

    • Dark Myr Bards?

      •      The Bard’s abilities aren’t limited to just buffing and uplifting their allies. Some of their songs will also demoralize foes, or manifest sonic based attacks. The Dark Myr definitely fit this side of the bard more so than most of the other “civilized” races.

    Paladin does equal Crusader. We felt the name might not fully fit what we have in mind for the class, after all, so we're going to run with Paladin.

    Bard and Necro are not official launch classes but we included them anyway as we are working hard on trying to make them launch classes, please don't hate us if we can't get them ready in time, though! :)

    Information from Justin "Istuulamae" our Loremaster:

    Hey everyone -

    Thrilled we were able to finally share our plans for race and class combinations with you all -- and field your feedback on them. I want to reiterate what Ceythos has said: these are plans, and while this is likely how we will be moving forward with the combinations it is not the absolute word on them. I also want to invite everyone to review Ceythos’ OP, because he understood some of these selections would be seen as “unconventional” and spoke good words about several of these combos.

    There is one thing that I want to humbly put forward: we are making a brand new world. Pantheon has no direct predecessor, it is not a sequel. While it may not come naturally at first, try to let this new world set your expectations of itself. Of course it’s understandable that each of us bring in expectations from our favorite games and experiences. We devs do it as much as anyone. Nevertheless I invite you all to look at these races and classes as familiar in some cases but new and distinct. It’s a practice that has helped us a lot internally, as we push ourselves to think beyond what we might assume “Must fill Box A, B or C” in any given design situation.

    One more thing: we wanted to leave ourselves room to grow within each race down the line, be that with new storylines emerging or in expansions or live events. So even if these combos stayed the same through launch, there’s no reason to think they won’t be added to thereafter.

    With that in mind I want to address some of the most common comments from a lore perspective.

    Where Have all the Crusaders Gone?

    While it hasn’t been public facing until now, internally we made the change from Crusader to Paladin I think in Q3 of last year. Without going into too much detail, we felt the name Crusader may have narrowed the scope of the class too much - and - wondered if the history of the term carried too many real-life historical connotations with it. I don’t think that the name change will alter the class at all, but like several of these decisions we wanted to have room to breathe in each instance and make a Pantheon class true to the Pantheon world.

    Why Some Casters and not All Casters?

    The simple answer here is that we looked at each of the 3 caster classes as distinct and standing on its own merit. When we did that we were able to make the connections to each race more freely and not assume “If One Then All” for each race. So Dwarves for instance -- as some have already suggested -- prize crafting and smithing to a degree that makes Enchanting a natural fit, but has nothing to do with Summoning. Once we let each arcane class have its own identity in the world, it didn’t feel right to lump them in as a One Caster Equals All Casters package.

    Dark Myr Can Sing?

    While bards are traditionally known for their upbeat and jovial qualities in MMOs, we felt that the Dark Myr presented a unique and authentic chance to broaden the scope of the class. Songs and melodies in our own world are not merely relegated to the happy side of life. As Ceythos first put it in one of our discussions, “What about the mournful power of a dirge?”

    That idea was compelling, especially in the context of the Dark Myr. A huge part of their culture was and is lamenting their history and remembering the excruciating moments after they came to Terminus…

    “Many say the cries of anguish loosed that day still linger in the murky waters…  Yet the fateful day of their arrival is marked by mourning, one week prior and one week after. Among the ceremony is a reading from ‘The Day of Testimonies’ a collection of witness accounts to the lamentable day.”

    While the lore isn’t explicit in this regard, in my mind deep and mournful songs are as much a part of the ceremonies as the readings -- which are dramatic and performed in front of the entire assembly. That aspect of weaving together the theatrical with the memorial also fits with a second answer as to why Dark Myr can be bards: the storytelling theater of song. We felt it was too narrow to exclude a troubadour aspect of the Bard. So if you can’t imagine a Dark Myr being inherently joyful, can you imagine them pretending to be, and perhaps using that skill to their advantage? Can you imagine a wanderer from the sea who learns tales of other worlds and casts a spell of song over anyone who will listen? I can, and it only deepens the sorrow and mystery of the Dark Myr.

    What About Halfling Pyros?

    There were a few ways we could’ve resolved this critical aspect of the Halfling heritage, but the one that felt the most natural was in Halfling Druids. Certain Druidic spells will include fire wielding, and for now that is the primary way Kiren’s Gift of First Magic is manifested. To wield fire is still rare and precious to the Halflings -- remember, only Marthus was given the First Magic by Kiren at that time, not all of the Kiri. While we may decide differently down the line, for now it was not a gift that was given to all or to the degree of traditional wizardry.

    We may have First Magic manifest in other ways among the Halflings, but for now it is entrusted to the Druids of Sorhiryth.

    Gnomes Gone Rogue?

    I invite everyone to review Ceythos’ OP. I’ll add to his comment that Gnomen arcane skills can be applied to physical stealth and hiding their form or disguising it. When you consider that they don’t have a fleshly body to hide in the same way an Elf might, it becomes a more natural possibility that some Gnomes  -- particularly those who are adventurous and wily -- to see their unique anatomy and stature as an advantage. An asset.

    Here again we asked the question of what is a unique but authentic way to have this race interact with the world. A small-framed, ethereal-bodied, diligent, adventurous and mystical being seemed to us to fit with the Rogue if we stepped outside of the obvious lines of their caster nature. Can you imagine a Gnome assassin darkly flashing between the shadows of a room? I can, and it keeps me up at night.

    No Elf Cleric or Pally?

    On this most consistent point of feedback I will simply say that we hear you.

    Archai Going Monk, not Ranger?

    When you think of a martial-based class who uses its body like a weapon, relies on toughness like a mountain and movements like water, doesn’t a race whose body can be made of mineral and imbued with the attributes of water seem like a pretty solid fit? Of all the comments so far, I think this one has surprised a little. It was probably one of the first class/race combo decisions we made, ages ago in fact, when I first pitched the Archai to Joppa.

    “What class fits these guys the best?” I wondered.

    “Oh, Monk. For sure,” he said.

    Then I shaved my head and drew striations all over my body with red markers, IIRC.

    Maybe I’m a bit cloudy on that last part, but you get the picture. I do believe over time Archai Monks will seem like a more natural fit to some of you. As for Rogues, bear in mind the celebratory nature of the Archai doesn’t automatically descend into haughtiness. They celebrate freedom and liberation, yes -- but also consider thoughtfulness and discernment a virtue. How they use their freedom is very important to them, because it was so hard fought to attain. They are a race that has been tested by their trials and out of them become a culture that celebrates with joyful delight, not taunting arrogance.

    ------------------

    OK, so I know there are more questions than I’ve given answers. You all are amazing and your criticisms are read many times over. All of them get consideration, even if they don’t change our decisions.

    I personally want to say how greatly I appreciate your patience with all of this. Yet I must ask for more. I’ll be back to answer new questions, and I’m going to invite Ceythos and Joppa to share their thoughts on the additional questions or comments you all have posed. Hope I’ve satisfied some of them in the meantime.

    Onward & Upward!

     

     

    I love it! At first I was very apprehensive to read the combination chart. After reading the lore and justifications I absolutely love the new combinations. I like how it introduced new outlooks for class/race mixtures and gives greater insight to lore decisions made by the team. 

    Keep it up!


    This post was edited by Throatseeker at April 4, 2017 8:22 AM PDT
    • 4377 posts
    April 4, 2017 9:57 AM PDT

    Risingmist said:

    Pantz said:

    Still curious about the lore behind why Archai can be Wizards and not Summoners. Being infused with elements seems like they would be great for Summoners. Maybe that's not what Summoning magic is based on? What's the deal?

    It could be more a psycological limitation. If the Archai were created to be slaves perhaps, they find the idea of forcing another being to serve them abhorent?

    That's an interesting thought. After spending so much time fighting for their own freedom, perhaps they feel it would be hypocritical to have a pet do their bidding for them. Makes sense to me. I still think there are several differences between pets and slaves, but they are definitely similar, as in issuing orders and such. But is an Archai Shaman summoning a spirit wolf pet really that different in principle?

    I think it's also important to remember that it's very possible that the Summoner will not be as elementally-focused as the EQ mage, which would also make the Archai less of an obvious choice.

    • 213 posts
    April 4, 2017 3:19 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Risingmist said:

    Pantz said:

    Still curious about the lore behind why Archai can be Wizards and not Summoners. Being infused with elements seems like they would be great for Summoners. Maybe that's not what Summoning magic is based on? What's the deal?

    It could be more a psycological limitation. If the Archai were created to be slaves perhaps, they find the idea of forcing another being to serve them abhorent?

    That's an interesting thought. After spending so much time fighting for their own freedom, perhaps they feel it would be hypocritical to have a pet do their bidding for them. Makes sense to me. I still think there are several differences between pets and slaves, but they are definitely similar, as in issuing orders and such. But is an Archai Shaman summoning a spirit wolf pet really that different in principle?

    I think it's also important to remember that it's very possible that the Summoner will not be as elementally-focused as the EQ mage, which would also make the Archai less of an obvious choice.

    [/blockquote

    Sounds reasonable to me. The only way to find out is to wait and see. In the end it's the vision of the Devs that matter.

    • 6 posts
    April 8, 2017 12:52 AM PDT

    Real Quick,

     

    Odds of Ogre Monk?

    • 4377 posts
    April 8, 2017 9:28 AM PDT

    Monkfist said:

    Real Quick,

     

    Odds of Ogre Monk?

    Probably slim to none. From the Ogre description: "Unseat their emotions and their incomparable size wreaks unpredictable ends." I think that pretty much goes against everything a monk stands for.

    • 6 posts
    April 8, 2017 6:37 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Monkfist said:

    Real Quick,

     

    Odds of Ogre Monk?

    Probably slim to none. From the Ogre description: "Unseat their emotions and their incomparable size wreaks unpredictable ends." I think that pretty much goes against everything a monk stands for.

     

    With their hulking presence and a culture that values the brutal skills of battle above refinements or leisure, the Ogres of Broken Maw are perilously dismissed as primitive by the uninformed. Yet careful study would reveal a race that relishes the dance of warfare tactics and in whom resides an unmatched respect for valor and courage, whether friend or foe. When calm, Ogres are cautious and considerate before action. Unseat their emotions and their incomparable size wreaks unpredictable ends.

     

    I mean you really picked one sentence. Should you unseat their emotions.

    • 6 posts
    April 8, 2017 6:38 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Monkfist said:

    Real Quick,

     

    Odds of Ogre Monk?

    Probably slim to none. From the Ogre description: "Unseat their emotions and their incomparable size wreaks unpredictable ends." I think that pretty much goes against everything a monk stands for.

     

    With their hulking presence and a culture that values the brutal skills of battle above refinements or leisure, the Ogres of Broken Maw are perilously dismissed as primitive by the uninformed. Yet careful study would reveal a race that relishes the dance of warfare tactics and in whom resides an unmatched respect for valor and courage, whether friend or foe. When calm, Ogres are cautious and considerate before action. Unseat their emotions and their incomparable size wreaks unpredictable ends.

     

    I mean you really picked one sentence. Should you unseat their emotions.

    • 6 posts
    April 8, 2017 6:38 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Monkfist said:

    Real Quick,

     

    Odds of Ogre Monk?

    Probably slim to none. From the Ogre description: "Unseat their emotions and their incomparable size wreaks unpredictable ends." I think that pretty much goes against everything a monk stands for.

     

    With their hulking presence and a culture that values the brutal skills of battle above refinements or leisure, the Ogres of Broken Maw are perilously dismissed as primitive by the uninformed. Yet careful study would reveal a race that relishes the dance of warfare tactics and in whom resides an unmatched respect for valor and courage, whether friend or foe. When calm, Ogres are cautious and considerate before action. Unseat their emotions and their incomparable size wreaks unpredictable ends.

     

    I mean you really picked one sentence. Should you unseat their emotions.